View Full Version : Someone fill me in on the current situation with Glocks...
lloydkristmas
07-13-11, 02:28
It's been a few years since I had one. I liked them, but sold them off for various reasons. I currently have a full sized USP and a pocket pistol, but I'd like an intermediate carry gun as well. Glock 26 is what Im eyeing.
Ive owned the 26, 19, and 17 in the past, and was always impressed with reliability and the way I was able to shoot them well.
Lately though, Ive been reading about extraction/ejection issues, malfunctions, etc. Like I said, Ive been out of the Glock game for a little while now, but I've picked up on a little bit of chatter here and there.
Here's what Ive been hearing, but Im hoping you guys can fill in the gaps and/or correct any misinformation....Gen 4 Glocks had some issues with malfunctions, Glock has supposedly fixed this? Something to do with the new guide rod/spring setup? Also theyve apparently gone cheap on the extractors? MIM parts? ejection issues popping up, even in some late Gen 3 guns?
Is there a particular serial number range I should avoid? Like I said, I'd like to pick up another G26, but I dont want to deal with a problematic gun...Thanks guys, please educate me.
I would look for a Gen 3, made prior to 2010.
search and you'll find a few threads like this with pictures...basically what ^ he said. I have a late manufacture gen 3, serial RMKxxx, with a gen 4 extractor. These are an issue for some. First range trip I had some issues but as round count climbed, the few issues went away. A lone wolf extractor will fix issues if they persist.
A lot of the "experts" on forums like Glock Talk will tell you that the Gen 4 issues lie solely with the dual recoil spring configuration and weak ammo. That was the prevailing thought for a while and it might hold water, but I will tell you my experience with a new Gen 3. Mine is a G19 with a serial in the PWX-XXX range. It has a Gen 4 extractor and a Gen 4 barrel (the barrel has Glock's new dull grey finish, while the rest of the gun is the black Tenifer you're used to seeing.). The extractor type can be checked pretty easily. The Gen 4 extractor has a dip or depression on top where it interfaces with the top of the extractor channel. This can be seen by simply looking at the assembled gun from the side. The Gen 3 does not have the dip.
My Gen 3 would kick about 30 to 50% of the spent brass back at my face depending on the ammo being used. I reported this to Glock and received a new trigger housing (which contains the ejector) and a new extractor, which I installed. The problem remained. I put the old trigger housing back in and ordered an extractor from Lone Wolf. I, or rather my wife, has about 1800 rounds through the gun and nary a piece of brass has hit either of us in the head.
My other G19 Gen 3 is a serial in the DFX-XXX range and has approximately 28,000 rounds through it. Save for the springs and striker, all parts are original and there have been no issues. My Previous G19 Gen 2 and my original duty G17 Gen 1 have likewise been maintained and have had no issues.
Edit: I'm a Glock armorer. I know, I'm special right? :)
Doc Safari
07-13-11, 09:50
The Gen 4 extractor has a dip or depression on top where it interfaces with the top of the extractor channel. This can be seen by simply looking at the assembled gun from the side. The Gen 3 does not have the dip.
Posting the pic one more time below for comparison. :smile:
My Gen 3 G17 came with the Gen 4 extractor. I installed the LWD extractor in it last evening and put about 40 rounds of UMC through it before sundown. The gun used to eject UMC brass right into my face about 25% of the time. Not one of the empties came at me after installing the LWD extractor. The brass shot straight up in the air and most landed either to the gun's sides or on my wrists. UMC is weak ammo from what I understand so its ejection pattern is not that robust to begin with, but at least the rounds aren't bouncing off my head anymore.
I have a gen3 g19 and i had a couple ftf's during the first 100 rounds but it is fine now. By far my favorite pistol.
lloydkristmas
07-13-11, 12:51
Excellent info thanks guys
titsonritz
07-13-11, 13:03
In my experience (IME), First Gens are cool. IME, Second Gens Rock. IME, Third Gens are the best. From what I understand, I wouldn’t touch a fourth gen with another man’s dick.
So how can you tell what year it was manufactured?
Here we have four Gen 4 and three Gen 3 Glocks vintage 2010+ that have all run superbly.
First 200 rounds with 115gr ammo, I had 4 FTFs. Next 500 rounds 3
next 1k 3.
2k rounds with 124gr 1k with 147gr 0
It only seems to happen with the 115grs, and appeared to slightly improve as the spring broke in a bit.
g4 g19
Would I carry it....well if I can get 2k more rounds of 124gr through it without problems...Then yes.
I have a PPRXXX series G17 Gen 4 that I picked up two weeks ago, with a 4/11/11 date.
700 rounds so far and 2 FTEs, one inline, one at 12 o'clock.
A small (~8-10%) amount of brass likes to eject either at 12 o'clock or back in my face as well.
I'm going to swap out the stock "2 1 0" spring and see if an ISMI 13 lb. or 15 lb. reduced power spring on a LWD guide SS rod improves things. If not, I'll try tuning the ejector and/or extractor.
I'm mostly shooting my reloads so I know power factor is not an issue (one of the FTEs in the first 200 rounds was WWB 115 gr though).
I know you said that you are reloading, but are you using 115s or higher?
I know you said that you are reloading, but are you using 115s or higher?
The first 200 rounds (1 FTE) were factory rounds. 115 gr Rem (100 rds.) and 115 gr WWB (100 rounds.) as I was waiting on a bullet shipment from MG. WWB was the FTE.
The next 500 rounds were a mix of 121 Montana Gold (MG) IFP and 124 gr MG CMJs over Tightgroup.
GeorgiaBoy
07-13-11, 20:48
Posting the pic one more time below for comparison. :smile:
My Gen 3 G17 came with the Gen 4 extractor. I installed the LWD extractor in it last evening and put about 40 rounds of UMC through it before sundown.
What extractor are you using?
Is it this one: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155971&TERM=extractor ?
Couple more questions, how many GR are you using of TG, and what is your OAL? Stock glock barrel? Is the load normal minor or major ? Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious.
Did you have any failures once you switched to the higher grain bullets?
In my house there are 4 19's. My 3rd gen, my wifes RTF, and my 2 kids 4th gen's, I might be lucky but have'nt had any issues with any of them. Both the kids 4th gen. guns have between 600-800 rounds through them. My wifes RTF 3rd gen. had around 1200 rounds through it. FWIW I also have a 26 and 34 that have also been good to go. I would trust my life with any of them. If I had issues I'd send it off or replace it.
Alpha Sierra
07-14-11, 04:37
My 4th Gen G17 (prefix PHM) has never hit me in the head or face with brass. That was true with the original, unmarked spring, with the 02 spring, with a Glockmeister spring, and with a Glock 021 spring.
It just broke 3000 rounds and it has been extremely trouble free with just two FTEs before the 300 rnd mark and none since.
Couple more questions, how many GR are you using of TG, and what is your OAL? Stock glock barrel? Is the load normal minor or major ? Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious.
Did you have any failures once you switched to the higher grain bullets?
4.3 gr TG, 1.125" - 1.135" OAL depending on the bullet.
Runs ~1100-1125 fps for the 124s, which is a minor PF load. I don't load for 9mm major, and no factory loads that I know of come close to making major PF in 9mm.
Having to make major PF would not be something expected for a Glock to ensure reliable function. WWB and some other 115 gr factory ammo will sometimes chrono sub-minor PF, which is the criticism I've heard that Glock gives linking the ammo used as a (contributing?) cause of the FTEs.
This is through the stock Glock barrel. I've had 1 FTE with this load in the 500 rounds I've shot with it so far. Got another 500 loaded up for this weekend. We'll see if ejection and extraction patterns are any better with the two reduced power ISMI recoil springs.
I don't think anyone's solved the FTE problem 100% with the Gen4s that experience it (not all do), but tuning the ejector and extractor are what a few have tried with varying success levels. That's my next avenue to try after changing the springs.
My gen4 G19 had a handful of FTEs on it's first range trip, but has run fine in the ~1500 rounds since then. I will say that first trip I was running some pretty weak target ammo (cheap Academy stuff). No issues running 115gr WWB, Federal, and 147gr Speer Gold Dots. I feel completely comfortable using it as my carry gun. Planning on taking it to a CSAT pistol course this fall, we'll see how it fares through that, but I'm not concerned. I think the internut concerns over gen4 reliability are a little overblown, and seem to be largely limited to the early G17s. But I only have a sample of one, so YMMV and what-not.
So how can you tell what year it was manufactured?
I found this link, it may be useful.
http://www.flarms.com/forums/showthread.php?113-Glock-Serial-Numbers
Doc Safari
07-14-11, 08:53
What extractor are you using?
Is it this one: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155971&TERM=extractor ?
Yes. I know it's been said before but if your gun already has a Gen4 extractor, then you do not need to buy the spring loaded bearing that Lone Wolf suggests. Your gun already has it. Only if your gun has the non LCI extractor do you also need the SLB.
I found this link, it may be useful.
http://www.flarms.com/forums/showthread.php?113-Glock-Serial-Numbers
Appreciate the assist, but I would be careful with how much faith put into the info at this link. I am a sample of one but have access to 130 Glocks... the few that I cross-checked with the info at the link didn't correspond...
Examples:
- G23 on my hip right now w/EWM prefix (issued in '04 so it may be an '02 manufacture, but it's a 23; that site says it's a 22)
- G22 on my desk w/DLH prefix (year is probably right but that site says it's a G20)
- 48 G22's I bought in '08 with MPA prefixes (not listed on site)
- 22 G23's bought in '08 with MMK prefixes (these correspond except the site says factory night sights and they were just the plain stock sights)
Just throwing this out as an FYI ;)
What ever happened with Gen 4 22 problems that Oakland PD had? Has that been resolved or are they still having issues?
Magic_Salad0892
07-14-11, 10:08
The Gen4 guns I've had ran fine.
My current Gen4 Glock 19 is currently at 5k rounds. No problems.
I've replace springs and stuff, and am going to stop shooting it.
It's my EDC.
I'm going to replicate it at some point and shoot the clone.
Still trying to find a source for OEM threaded barrels, and is the only reason my 17 is still in my inventory.
What ever happened with Gen 4 22 problems that Oakland PD had? Has that been resolved or are they still having issues?
Im wanting to know this too. Im currently thinking of getting one to replace my duty Gen 3 model 22. My Gen 3 started having feeding issues with a light attached.
I had a Gen4 G19 that wouldn't work for love or money with our issued 147 gr subsonic JHP. As the reduced power RSA was just a twinkle in some engineer's eye at the time, I ditched it for a late-make 3rd Gen G19.
My PSCXXX generation G19 has been through FOUR extractors in the course of about 8K rounds. The first three were recent production MIM extractors - one that come on the gun, one that I replaced myself when I started getting pinged in the head, one that Glock replaced when I started getting pinged in the head and having FTF/FTE problems, and the current, 2nd Gen old steel extractor I had in one of my parts bins. Only the current, old tool steel extractor has proven reliable. Each of the earlier three would run fine for 1,000-1,500 rounds, then start giving erratic ejection and/or reliability issues.
Regards,
Kevin
Doc Safari
07-14-11, 11:20
My PSCXXX generation G19 has been through FOUR extractors in the course of about 8K rounds. The first three were recent production MIM extractors - one that come on the gun, one that I replaced myself when I started getting pinged in the head, one that Glock replaced when I started getting pinged in the head and having FTF/FTE problems.....
All Gen 4 style extractors I'm assuming....
...and the current, 2nd Gen old steel extractor I had in one of my parts bins. Only the current, old tool steel extractor has proven reliable. Each of the earlier three would run fine for 1,000-1,500 rounds, then start giving erratic ejection and/or reliability issues.
Regards,
Kevin
Is this the same extractor as in the Gen 3's before Glock started installing Gen 4 extractors in them?
It's interesting to note that Lone Wolf says their extractor is tool steel.
I was wondering about the long-term durability of their part and your post has gone a long way toward answering my question.
My Gen2 & Gen3 19's have all been flawless, never a single issue with any of them and one Gen2 is from '89.
I decided to buy two G30SF's about two years ago. They BOTH had the dreaded FTRB issue. I sold them both.
Having heard all the Gen4 9mm adventures, I wouldn't touch them. I've been down the Glock imperfection road with the 30SF's and sorting out stuff like that is just too costly for me when Gen3's are still widely available.
lloydkristmas
07-14-11, 16:51
Sounds like Glock is not worth screwing with at this point. I'll track down a P2000SK or MPC or something else.
Sounds like Glock is not worth screwing with at this point. I'll track down a P2000SK or MPC or something else. ....or find an older G19,lloyd.They're still GTG.
No problems with my RDLxxx (brass date 2/7/2011) 23Gen4. Excellent pistol.
lloydkristmas
07-14-11, 19:15
....or find an older G19,lloyd.They're still GTG.
Pretty much what I'll have to do, I always had good luck with my older Glocks, but nevertheless, this downward trend in production quality is kind of pushing me in other directions.
It's pretty ironic that the handgun success story of the last 25 years has evolved to where many don't trust them anymore. So much for product improvement.............
It's pretty ironic that the handgun success story of the last 25 years has evolved to where many don't trust them anymore. So much for product improvement.............
this thread reads like something off the 1911 forum.. messing with extractors.. tuning spring rates. what the hell glock? :rolleyes:
this thread reads like something off the 1911 forum.. messing with extractors.. tuning spring rates. what the hell glock? :rolleyes:
exactly what I was thinking, especially since I was in the Kimber subforum over there :suicide2:
but after 300 rounds mine had 0 problems. If shooting more fixes problems...well, just another excuse to send some downrange
Doc Safari
07-15-11, 09:04
I put another 50 or so rounds through the G17 with the LWD extractor last evening. I used some more ammo from the exact same lot of UMC. This time ejection was a little more robust, leading me to believe that the parts needed a few rounds to seat themselves fully, polish rough spots, and the like. Ejection was at least a couple-three feet to the right side.
I'm still not getting brass to the face, so I call it GTG. :cool:
UMC wasn't good for me in the beginning, so I switched to some brand of 124gr but now I can buy the 115gr UMC val packs and the 19 is gtg
Picked up a Gen 4 G19 #PRAXXX (6-28-11) on Monday, left slide locked back until getting out to the range yesterday. Shot 250 rounds had 2 ejections to 6'oclock and high (hit my baseball cap
and flew to back wall) otherwise all ejections strongly to 3-4 o'clock.
No FTE's at all. I was shooting Wallyworld Federal (burgundy box) and American Eagle, both 115 gr. Will put another 200 or so on Sat
evening , God willing.
I have a PPRXXX series G17 Gen 4 that I picked up two weeks ago, with a 4/11/11 date.
700 rounds so far and 2 FTEs, one inline, one at 12 o'clock.
A small (~8-10%) amount of brass likes to eject either at 12 o'clock or back in my face as well.
I'm going to swap out the stock "2 1 0" spring and see if an ISMI 13 lb. or 15 lb. reduced power spring on a LWD guide SS rod improves things. If not, I'll try tuning the ejector and/or extractor.
I'm mostly shooting my reloads so I know power factor is not an issue (one of the FTEs in the first 200 rounds was WWB 115 gr though).
Well, I'm up to 900 rounds now with 12 FTEs on my 4th Gen Glock 17 that's 3 weeks old. 10 on this range trip alone, and I only put 200 round through the gun as I wasn't a happy camper. I also get a good amount of brass to the face and am still getting forward and 12 o'clock ejections as well.
I can say with a good degree of certainty that it's not the recoil spring that's causing the problem on my gun. I swapped in a LWD SS guide rod and 13 lb ISMI spring and experienced 8 FTEs in 100 rounds. Swapped back in the stock "2 1 0" recoil spring and fired 100 rounds with 2 FTEs. All were fairly hot 124 gr loads.
Looks like it's time to find a new extractor and if that doesn't work, try tuning the ejector. May send it back to Glock first though since the LWD 9mm extractor is on backorder.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-18-11, 00:04
What? Your first 10 posts here have been nonsense. Please try to get it together.
ive got it together i didnt say any thing to you
The sad part is that you edited this post and it still makes no sense. Punctuation and complete sentences would go a long way toward getting your point across.
dude shut up i dont care about puntuation crap i just posted a reply to a post about glocks
SWATcop556
07-18-11, 00:24
dude shut up i dont care about puntuation crap i just posted a reply to a post about glocks
You should care as sentence structure and grammar relay thoughts and ideas in a clear manner vs a paragraph of dribble. Knock it off.
Logicalpath
07-18-11, 01:57
A lot of the "experts" on forums like Glock Talk will tell you that the Gen 4 issues lie solely with the dual recoil spring configuration and weak ammo.
Wasn't Glock offering to replace these parts for free?
Wasn't Glock offering to replace these parts for free?
They have replaced the Recoil Spring Assemblies (RSA)s for free.
What I've gathered is Glock started with an unmarked RSA. They've progressed through at least two other variations that I know of, and will send you the new "correct" version for free. However, this doesn't solve the problems with all of the guns out there.
Problem solving by the internet community has moved on to the extractors and ejectors. Some people replace the extractors with LWD extractors and that fixes their issues, for some, it does not.
No documented fix exists that works 100% for all of the guns out there experiencing erratic ejection and FTEs that I've found in several weeks of searching.
I'm trying tuning the ejector (removing .040" and adding a 10 degree "up" angle) and polishing up the extractor where it's rubbing on the frame in search of a solution for my issues. Wish me luck.
I managed to get another 500 through mine this weekend, 0 issues with 124 gr.
I have yet to have an issue after moving to heavier rounds, but it also could be that I have fired a couple thousand through it now. I still think it is very plausible that the spring was too tight.
As far as erratic ejection, my only issue is that it throws the shells to far behind me, and they don't land on my brass catcher.
Wasn't Glock offering to replace these parts for free?
Yes. They sent me a trigger housing and extractor for free and there was no change in the condition. Rather than play a parts lottery with Glock, I elected to pay the twenty bucks for a Lone Wolf extractor to see if it would make a difference. It has and I'm satisfied with the product.
Pretty much what I'll have to do, I always had good luck with my older Glocks, but nevertheless, this downward trend in production quality is kind of pushing me in other directions.
It's pretty ironic that the handgun success story of the last 25 years has evolved to where many don't trust them anymore. So much for product improvement.............
this thread reads like something off the 1911 forum.. messing with extractors.. tuning spring rates. what the hell glock? :rolleyes:
Speaking with respect to the gen1-3 guns, at all points in the past years, there have been threads on forums of people complaining about one issue or another. Using forum posts to judge the overall reliability of a firearm isn't, nor has it ever been, an accurate method as every one of these types of threads suffer from self-selection bias.
That's not to say that a decline won't be reflected by negative posts on various forums, but posts can't stand as direct evidence of said decline.
FWIW (and that's not much), my gen3 Glock 19 is of 2011 manufacture, and I've had 0 issues in the past ~2,500 rounds. This is largely with Wally World white box and Federal Champ.
using crap ammo in a gen 4 seems more of a factor. And I blame it ion the dual spring. If you are having issues with a specific ammo and gun then borrow the gen 3 parts from a friend and try it in you gun. I have gen 1 glock 21 with a double spring and never had a misfire or fte or any malfunction ever. even in mud and after being underwater. runs perfect.
Yes. They sent me a trigger housing and extractor for free and there was no change in the condition. Rather than play a parts lottery with Glock, I elected to pay the twenty bucks for a Lone Wolf extractor to see if it would make a difference. It has and I'm satisfied with the product.
I tried tuning the ejector with no luck, and I have two I've tried. Glock wouldn't send me an extractor, since, "I'm not a Glock armorer and it's an internal part."
They did suggest I try the LWD extractor, and would have sent me a LWD extractor free had I been a "Glock armorer".
I was able to find a LWD extractor and one of these White Sound Defense extractor depressor assemblies on the way to try also:
http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=126833&CAT=708
I would've given up on this gun and sent it to Glock by now, but it's just so darned accurate for me that I hate to lose it for two months with a class coming up.
Doc Safari
07-18-11, 17:38
If the LWD extractors seem to be the ultimate fix for a lot of users, why isn't Glock purchasing them for OEM installation in the pistols at the factory?
Just a thought....
If the LWD extractors seem to be the ultimate fix for a lot of users, why isn't Glock purchasing them for OEM installation in the pistols at the factory?
Just a thought....
Reason they switched extractor design/construction in the first place was supposedly savings on the cost of the part, so going back to the old extractor would be just as good.
using crap ammo in a gen 4 seems more of a factor. And I blame it ion the dual spring.
Not in my experience. Sample of one and all that, but with my gun, switching to a LWD SS guide rod and 13 lb. ISMI spring caused a higher FTE rate than with the stock RSA marked 2 1 0.
Sure, the cases ejected farther, but I also got hit harder in the head with brass and had more forward, left and 12 o'clock ejections than wtih the stock spring.
As with respect to ammo, I'm running 124 grain CMJ rounds at 1,100 fps 10 ft. from the muzzle. It's not weak ammo.
Doc Safari
07-18-11, 17:58
Reason they switched extractor design/construction in the first place was supposedly savings on the cost of the part, so going back to the old extractor would be just as good.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but something doesn't smell right. The LWC extractor is a $16 part. Wouldn't it have been better for Glock to have raised its prices $16 and maintain their reputation than to save that money and not have half the internet cussing the Gen 4 extractor?
Again, I'm not disputing that it was a cost-saving measure, but then that indicates that somebody made the decision to switch extractors without doing any sort of testing first.
If the LWD extractors seem to be the ultimate fix for a lot of users, why isn't Glock purchasing them for OEM installation in the pistols at the factory?
Just a thought....
That or start throwing the Gen 3 extractors (which are pretty
pretty similar to the LW) back in. You might remember those, Glock. They were the ones that worked just fine.
I understand progress and innovation, but clearly there exists a problem that should have been worked out prior to distribution. I work at a law enforcement training facility and my services as a Glock armorer have been on the increase with this erratic/weak ejection issue. I can't give you exact numbers, but I've probably dealt with thirty or so guns, mostly 9mm, with ejection related problems in the last year. Newer Gen 3 and Gen 4 guns all. There are about a dozen armorers here and we've all seen the issues.
Recoil spring changes fixed some of them. Others required an extractor change to go with the recoil spring. Still others needed the extractor only. There's no magic formula, but after 22 years of servicing LE Glock handguns I will tell you that I have not seen a rash of ejection issues like this.
Edit: I'd like to clarify what I mean by a "rash" of issues. In the last 22 or so years that I've been a police armorer I've seen an occasional Glock with non shooter related FTE problems or erratic ejection. It's usually fixed with a spring change. I'd say I've seen maybe 15 to 20 or so over the years with these issues. In the last 18 months or so, I've seen about 30. It's still less than 1% of the guns we service, but clearly something was changed that caused some guns to have issues.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but something doesn't smell right. The LWC extractor is a $16 part. Wouldn't it have been better for Glock to have raised its prices $16 and maintain their reputation than to save that money and not have half the internet cussing the Gen 4 extractor?
Again, I'm not disputing that it was a cost-saving measure, but then that indicates that somebody made the decision to switch extractors without doing any sort of testing first.
We would both agree on that. Then again we are looking at it from the point of a view of shooters, not as accountants or business execs.
I just think that going back to the old extractor that worked fine would probably be a better idea than buying an aftermarket part. I would love to know what they are saving making them in house with the new process versus buying the old ones from vendors.
As far as maintaining their good reputation goes I have run into this a number of times. Companies never seem to understand what their good name is worth and how easy it is to lose it, and do not seem interested in taking the measures necessary to protect same.
Well another 160 rounds this evening after work, no FTE's , one
ejection to 5:30-6:00. All other ejections hard 3-4o'clock using American Eagle 115gr. Total 410 rounds . Long way to go before
acceptance into a CCW holster, but feeling less apprehensive about
purchase. :cool:
Continue to leave slide locked back at home.
GeorgiaBoy
07-18-11, 21:11
My current Gen 4 G19 has about 800 rounds through it right now. Generally I shoot around 50 to 200 rounds per range session. Out of the 8 or so range sessions I have had so far, if I recall correctly only in 2 of them I have experienced no problems. Stovepipes and not locking back on the last round are the most common problem.
The last time I went I shot around 150 rounds of AE/Brown Bear through it with no problems at at all. I am debating on whether or not to get the Lone Wolf ejector now, as I want to see if this near 1,000 rounds it has through it now may have broken it in finally. I have 300 rounds of Win. Ranger +P left that I am going to run through it this week and see how it performs. Hopefully I will have good results, as I bought this pistol because of its reputation.
Its sad that my second pistol, this G19, has experienced more failures in its first 200 rounds than my other pistol, a Ruger SR9 has, yet its been shot at least 2,000+ times.
I managed to get another 500 through mine this weekend, 0 issues with 124 gr.
I have yet to have an issue after moving to heavier rounds, but it also could be that I have fired a couple thousand through it now. I still think it is very plausible that the spring was too tight.
As far as erratic ejection, my only issue is that it throws the shells to far behind me, and they don't land on my brass catcher.
I took out two 9 mm handguns this past Sunday, one brand new (M&P Vtac) and one with only 200 rounds through it -- an HK P30. Both occasionally threw rounds directly over my head. May have been variations in my grip or some other issue. Bottom line for me is that my G19s (both Gen 3s, including one five years old) do this as well.
Both occasionally threw rounds directly over my head. May have been variations in my grip or some other issue. Bottom line for me is that my G19s (both Gen 3s, including one five years old) do this as well.
Internet forums are invaluable resources, but I think they can also make us paranoid. Are there or were there some issues with the Gen4 Glocks? Certainly. I've never had so many stovepipes and failure to ejects in so short a time as I did when I started shooting my Gen4 G17 a year ago. However, while there may be an ongoing issue with recoil springs or possibly even extractors, I think it is too easy to start seeing ghosts everywhere.
Getting erratic ejection and being pegged in the forehead is not a new thing by any means. That's one of the main reasons you wear shooting glasses and a ball cap. I have been pegged in the forehead by spent casings long before a 2009 or 2010 extractor change. My Gen2 G19 would occasionally remind me it was there with a ping on the head. It would also stovepipe but not frequently. My PM9 has given me some good whacks in the face as well. I've had pings on the forehead with a HK P2000, SIG P226, Glock 34, and Glock 26 as well. The face-checks may have not been as frequent as with the Gen4 G17, but 6 o'clock ejection isn't new.
I think it is important to distinguish between real problems with design or manufacture and what is just part of shooting. "Tap, Rack, Bang" exists for a reason - because guns, even Glocks, will have malfunctions. This is nothing new, and it is important to keep that perspective in mind. Otherwise we'll get riled up in a tizzy of excitement and panic that is unfounded. Some of the issues individuals have had with the Gen4 Glocks are disturbing, but the sky isn't falling.
Even though my Gen4 G17 has had more stovepipes than usual and I would of course prefer them to not occur, when you encounter a malfunction, which WILL happen occasionally, it is good training to be able to quickly identify the issue and tap, rack, bang. (I just recently received a new spring, so hopefully no more stovepipes.) Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter - and worth exactly what you paid. :)
Are the Gen 4 extractor issues limited to the the 9mms?
Well, another 300 rnds today , American Eagle 115gr. No FTE's 3
rounds ejected to 5:30 high arching (one hit baseball cap) all others
hard 3-4 o'clock. thats 710 rounds now. No problems thus far.
My gen 4 22 eats anything, I never had any issues with it, then again I am 5'10'' at 260 and people tell me I have bear paws lol
Kristofer_G
07-22-11, 12:15
My gen 4 22 eats anything, I never had any issues with it, then again I am 5'10'' at 260 and people tell me I have bear paws lol
I have not seen reports of problems from the newer .40 caliber models.
Is it correct to believe that all the issues are centered around 9mm models?
Or have I just missed the bad .40s?
Nephrology
07-22-11, 13:33
I have not seen reports of problems from the newer .40 caliber models.
Is it correct to believe that all the issues are centered around 9mm models?
Or have I just missed the bad .40s?
I really think that the problems associated with the 9mm Glocks can be localized on the Gen 4s. Quite honestly I have yet to find a reason to doubt the Gen 3s other than scuttlebutt. One bad gun as per reported on the internet does not an epidemic make.
just thought I'd chime in again, I got another 300 rounds or some of some junk 115gr ammo through the gun again today. I was having a lot of empties flying back and hitting me square in the face, and every once in awhile the slide would not stay open and locked after the final round.
I am glad not be having any FTE's or FTFs today, but I was very interested in in the shells not ejecting right as the gun became hotter. I live in south texas and even though I tried to get out there early today, but it was still hot, and raining intermittently.
I really think that the problems associated with the 9mm Glocks can be localized on the Gen 4s. Quite honestly I have yet to find a reason to doubt the Gen 3s other than scuttlebutt. One bad gun as per reported on the internet does not an epidemic make.
I'm an armorer and instructor at a police academy and LE training facility. I can confirm that Gen 3 9mm Glocks with Gen 4 extractors have issues, including one of my own guns. We have seen erratic ejection and FTEs with these Gen 3 guns. The guns in question experienced these issues with recruits, seasoned officers and instructors. In all cases the issues were reproducible by more than one shooter. We've had some success with switching out the extractors with other Gen 4 parts. Some guns required a Gen 3 extractor and others required swapping both the extractor and ejector. Some guns were simply returned to Glock for replacement. We have experienced similar issues with Gen 4 guns and have worked with our distributor and Glock to get these issues dealt with. We are not the only LE customers having these issues with Gen 3 (or 3.5 as we sometimes call them) and Gen 4 Glocks. In short, most of the Gen 3 9mm Glocks are good to go and the Gen 4 guns have improved, but the issue is not as localized as you might believe and there is no universal fix.
I'm an armorer and instructor at a police academy and LE training facility. I can confirm that Gen 3 9mm Glocks with Gen 4 extractors have issues, including one of my own guns. We have seen erratic ejection and FTEs with these Gen 3 guns. The guns in question experienced these issues with recruits, seasoned officers and instructors. In all cases the issues were reproducible by more than one shooter. We've had some success with switching out the extractors with other Gen 4 parts. Some guns required a Gen 3 extractor and others required swapping both the extractor and ejector. Some guns were simply returned to Glock for replacement. We have experienced similar issues with Gen 4 guns and have worked with our distributor and Glock to get these issues dealt with. We are not the only LE customers having these issues with Gen 3 (or 3.5 as we sometimes call them) and Gen 4 Glocks. In short, most of the Gen 3 9mm Glocks are good to go and the Gen 4 guns have improved, but the issue is not as localized as you might believe and there is no universal fix.
Have you noted any problems with the Gen4. 40 caliber models?
Have you noted any problems with the Gen4. 40 caliber models?
Very rarely and it's usually shooter related.
Edit: We don't see all that many .40 Glocks here, surprisingly. The vast majority of the Glocks we encounter here are 9mm, so my sample is small. I understand that there are some issues with these, but the most of the .40's we see are Gen 2 and Gen 3 guns that have been in service a while. The few newer Gen 3 and Gen 4 guns we see have by and large been ok, but for a few issues with weapon lights on some guns. Most of the .40s we see are S&W M&Ps and SiGs.
Nephrology
07-23-11, 11:20
I'm an armorer and instructor at a police academy and LE training facility. I can confirm that Gen 3 9mm Glocks with Gen 4 extractors have issues, including one of my own guns. We have seen erratic ejection and FTEs with these Gen 3 guns. The guns in question experienced these issues with recruits, seasoned officers and instructors. In all cases the issues were reproducible by more than one shooter. We've had some success with switching out the extractors with other Gen 4 parts. Some guns required a Gen 3 extractor and others required swapping both the extractor and ejector. Some guns were simply returned to Glock for replacement. We have experienced similar issues with Gen 4 guns and have worked with our distributor and Glock to get these issues dealt with. We are not the only LE customers having these issues with Gen 3 (or 3.5 as we sometimes call them) and Gen 4 Glocks. In short, most of the Gen 3 9mm Glocks are good to go and the Gen 4 guns have improved, but the issue is not as localized as you might believe and there is no universal fix.
Thanks for the info. I was hoping that somebody who has seen it first hand would chime in. Makes me change my opinion somewhat.
Thanks for the info. I was hoping that somebody who has seen it first hand would chime in. Makes me change my opinion somewhat.
No problem. I don't want to come off as bashing Glocks. I still carry my Gen3 G19 every day, my wife carries one and I have a Glock 17 in a safe box under the bed. I have confidence in the platform and I will also note that the vast majority of the guns that come through are good to go.
If any of you are having FTE issues with a newer Glock pistol I would encourage you to first fire 100 rounds of slow fire while being hyper-focused on good technique to ensure proper grip and wrist lock. If you can get another competent shooter, preferably a Glock owner, to do another 50 or 100 rounds that would be beneficial. After doing this, be brutally honest with yourself and decide if you're the cause of the problem or the gun is. This is where you need to ditch the hubris and pride issues and start critiquing yourself honestly. If you still have the issues, call Glock, ask for a return shipping label and get the gun checked.
I train law enforcement officers and recruits for a living. Some of whom have never fired a gun before. After nearly two decades of doing this, I've seen all kinds. I will tell you that the VAST majority of malfunction issues with unmodified semi-auto pistols lie with the shooter. The problem Glocks that have come through our facility are very few and we exhaust all of our usual checks before deeming them a problem. I'd guess that we've seen maybe 10 problem guns at best. That's less than 1% of the new Gen 3 and 4 guns that have come through.
Edit: Just wanted to clarify that the 10 guns I referenced in this post are guns that have FTE issues. I've seen about 20 or so more with erratic ejection (but no FTE issues) and so have my colleagues.
If the LWD extractors seem to be the ultimate fix for a lot of users.
I just installed a LWD extractor in my Gen 4 G17.
I used to get 8-10% of brass ejecting erratically, either forward, left, straight up, or hitting me in the forehead.
Today, I put 300 rounds through my G17 with no abnormal extraction whatsoever, after installing the new LWD extractor. Every round was ejected at ~3-4 o'clock and landed about 6-8 ft. from the gun.
As reference, I've had 12 FTEs with the old extractor in ~3X as many rounds. This gun has never made it through 200 rounds without an FTE so far, so while 300 rounds without a stoppage doesn't prove anything, it is encouraging.
I think it's time for this gun to get cleaned and go through a 2K round challenge.
QuietShootr
07-23-11, 19:24
I came across a stash of NIB Gen 2 guns that a friend has: 5 G19s, 3 G17s, and a G17L.
I am going to have to make a couple of these mine.
Nephrology
07-23-11, 23:47
I came across a stash of NIB Gen 2 guns that a friend has: 5 G19s, 3 G17s, and a G17L.
I am going to have to make a couple of these mine.
Gen 2 G19s are fantastic guns. I want to pick one up myself one of these days.
No problem. I don't want to come off as bashing Glocks. I still carry my Gen3 G19 every day, my wife carries one and I have a Glock 17 in a safe box under the bed. I have confidence in the platform and I will also note that the vast majority of the guns that come through are good to go.
If any of you are having FTE issues with a newer Glock pistol I would encourage you to first fire 100 rounds of slow fire while being hyper-focused on good technique to ensure proper grip and wrist lock. If you can get another competent shooter, preferably a Glock owner, to do another 50 or 100 rounds that would be beneficial. After doing this, be brutally honest with yourself and decide if you're the cause of the problem or the gun is. This is where you need to ditch the hubris and pride issues and start critiquing yourself honestly. If you still have the issues, call Glock, ask for a return shipping label and get the gun checked.
I train law enforcement officers and recruits for a living. Some of whom have never fired a gun before. After nearly two decades of doing this, I've seen all kinds. I will tell you that the VAST majority of malfunction issues with unmodified semi-auto pistols lie with the shooter. The problem Glocks that have come through our facility are very few and we exhaust all of our usual checks before deeming them a problem. I'd guess that we've seen maybe 10 problem guns at best. That's less than 1% of the new Gen 3 and 4 guns that have come through.
Thanks for your excellent posts in this thread, DireWulf. Very helpful.
Thanks for your excellent posts in this thread, DireWulf. Very helpful.
No problem. I've made some edits to clarify some things too.
I bought my gen 4 quite a while back and I have had no issues. Only have maybe 600 or 700 rds shot but no problems yet. I think that mine is a later Gen 4 if that makes any difference.
Nephrology
07-25-11, 11:32
I have 2 gen 3 glock with the newer extractors and have had 0 extractor related issues. On my 17 I had a few FTRTBs but I swapped out the recoil spring for a replacement and it's been problem free since. Might've been a factory lemon spring (not a systemic issue from what I know).
my gen 3 g26 with the newer extractor (must be a replacement - its a KUA spring 07 manf.) has been flawless for 450 rounds so far.
Alpha Sierra
07-25-11, 17:04
I'm up to 3136 rounds through my PHM prefix G17 Gen 4 (purchased August of last year) with original extractor and 021 spring. 2 FTEs in the first 359 rounds, no stoppages of any kind for the last 2777.
Ammo's been anything from 147 and 124 grain reloads, full power defensive ammo, and cheap bulk 115 gr stuff.
Gutshot John
07-25-11, 18:00
My buddy, a glock armorer, sent me this photo last night of his Gen 4 G19.
Essentially he was cleaning his gun and saw this copperish color on one of the rails of his gun and thought some of the copper paste lapping compound Glock is known for had made its way to the rail.
Since he didn't think it was a good idea on a rail, he tried wiping it off but to no avail.
On closer inspection it appears that the metal hardening process was defective and that a chunk of material had come off revealing the soft metal underneath. He says it's a pretty sharp edge. He is less than pleased and left a message with the Glock rep.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll99/GutshotJohn/photo.jpg
Nephrology
07-25-11, 21:28
Is that a gen 4 or a gen 3? It looks to me like those could be ejector related issues.
Wow, I guess I should consider myself lucky (fortunate?), another
350 rounds (Sat and this evening) no FTE's or malfunctions of any kind. One round ejected to 5:30-6. This includes approximately 150
rounds of strong hand only and support hand only shooting. Thats a total of 1060 rounds of American Eagle 115gr in the 2 weeks I've owned the Gen4G19.
Tommorow night I have a class with Shannon Smith, will probably
shoot another 300 or so rounds. If no problems tommorow night I
will probably put 200 rounds of Ranger 147gr through it, call it ready and start carrying it, provided it runs problem free with the Rangers.
Is that a gen 4 or a gen 3? It looks to me like those could be ejector related issues.
Gen 4. It might be ejector related.
Nephrology
07-25-11, 22:23
Gen 4. It might be ejector related. I'll probably pick up a new ejector/trigger housing along with the LWD extractor. Unfortunately, the LWD extractor looks to be sold out until the end of August. :suicide2:
Caliber?
Just an update on mine after the weekend. I have about 600-800 rounds through it so far. Not much I know, but still enough to have already broken in the initial spring.
So this is what I have been getting fairly regularly prior to any changes:
How does the gun function without the weapon light? In my experience, weapon lights can cause issues in and of themselves. Often times a weapon light will cause a gun to malfunction that ordinarily has no issues. That could be because the shooter's technique (grip/wrist lock) is borderline and the light is enough to disturb the operation of the gun and cause slide travel issues for that particular shooter. It could also be a mechanical problem with the gun that's exacerbated by the light. Basically, weapon lights can create problems. In particular, Glock .40s are known for this, but I've seen the issue with 9mm guns too.
Even though my Gen4 G17 has had more stovepipes than usual and I would of course prefer them to not occur, when you encounter a malfunction, which WILL happen occasionally, it is good training to be able to quickly identify the issue and tap, rack, bang. (I just recently received a new spring, so hopefully no more stovepipes.) Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter - and worth exactly what you paid. :)
For what its worth, your Glock should not be having these kinds of extraction and ejection issues. They are the result of either incorrect technique or a defect in the weapon. I read your previous post about guns having occasional malfunctions and you seem to be inferring that having a gun that malfunctions occasionally is good practice. While malfunctions are possible in any gun, this is not how you want to view this issue. You own a combat proven pistol with a reputation for reliability. Glock 17 pistols have passed countless evaluations for police and military service where they have gone well in excess of 10,000 mean rounds between stoppages. You or your gun needs attention. I can't watch your technique, but I would recommend that you seek out a local Glock armorer and supply him with 100-150 rounds and ask him to evaluate your gun and report back to you. As I said earlier, I have experience with problem guns and one of the first things we do is try to replicate the issues with another shooter. If we can replicate the issues, then we start problem solving. You paid good money for that gun, get it checked.
Caliber?
It's a Gen4 G17.
Beat Trash
07-26-11, 09:30
I'm sorry, but one shouldn't have to replace "all the internals except for the trigger housing" on a Glock 17, just to get it to be reliable.
The title of this topic is, "Someone fill me in on the current situation with Glocks". While some are satisfied with their newer guns, too many are having issues.
All of my Glocks are 9mm Gen 3 guns. The newest is a Glock 17 I bought in 2004 to celebrate the end of the AWB. I don't get hit in the head with spent cases. I don't have malfunctions when shooting WWB 115 gr FMJ and have to write it off as cheap target ammunition. If I load factory ammunition made to spec into the guns, they work.
I will not be selling off any of my current Glock pistols. But until the situation changes, I won't be buying any new Glocks.
I'm sorry, but one shouldn't have to replace "all the internals except for the trigger housing" on a Glock 17, just to get it to be reliable.
The title of this topic is, "Someone fill me in on the current situation with Glocks". While some are satisfied with their newer guns, too many are having issues.
All of my Glocks are 9mm Gen 3 guns. The newest is a Glock 17 I bought in 2004 to celebrate the end of the AWB. I don't get hit in the head with spent cases. I don't have malfunctions when shooting WWB 115 gr FMJ and have to write it off as cheap target ammunition. If I load factory ammunition made to spec into the guns, they work.
I will not be selling off any of my current Glock pistols. But until the situation changes, I won't be buying any new Glocks.
Just a little perspective. My facility had 91 new Glock 17 and 19 Gen 4 guns come through in the last 90 days. No issues. As I said earlier, there are problem guns and they're generally easy to spot and correct. Also, an unqualified (not meant as an insult Big Red), owner replacing all of his own parts and having issues is not an accurate indicator of the reliability of Glock pistols as a whole. Armorers exist for a reason. There's a method in place to diagnose a problem gun. One of the first things to look at is the extractor, which he has not changed yet. The replacement of "all the internals" may not have been required.
As I said earlier, less than 1% of the many hundreds of new Glocks we've seen have issues. Yes, there have been more issues recently than in the past, but those problems have declined quickly and Glock is aware of the issues. No armorer I've spoken to has had any static from Glock regarding the repair or replacement of a problem gun.
It's also worthwhile to note that the internet is full of horror stories and people with a problem product are far more likely to be vocal about it than those who are satisfied. By all accounts and in my experience, the overwhelming number Glocks that function properly far out number the ones that truly have issues unrelated to the shooter. The important take away from this is that the issues are decreasing and Glock has procedures in place to correct issues. This isn't the first time Glock has had issues with reliability or safety, nor are they the first gun maker to have to weather a storm. S&W, Colt, Ruger, and HK are all doing just fine. If you buy a problem Glock, contact an armorer. It's really that simple.
Kristofer_G
07-26-11, 11:50
...If you buy a problem Glock, contact an armorer. It's really that simple.
This. For two reasons.
First, you bought a new pistol which should work. Service pistols should work out of the box, with the only user addition being ammunition. Too many these days let the manufacturers off the hook.
Secondly, Glock needs to know so they can correctly access the extent of the problem. There is a point where is is cost effective to just deal with a few problem guns. And there is a point where they have a systemic issue which needs re-engineering.
Nephrology
07-26-11, 12:13
For those in need of Glock Armorer services in Oregon (soon to relocate to Connecticut however) feel free to give me a PM :smile:
FWIW, a sample of one. I shot my FAST academy class last night
with the G19Gen4 . Shot 275 rounds this time with my TLR-1s mounted on it. Bill Drills, Bar Drills, Support side only, strong side only and some shooting on the move. No FTE's , all ejections to 3-4 o'clock. Shot another 250 rounds this afternoon, no FTE's, one ejection to 6:00 o'clock high over my head. Thats a total of 1,585
rounds of American Eagle 115gr over roughly three weeks. :cool:
I'm satisfied, will put a few boxes of Ranger 147gr next and call it good if no problems arise. Time to break out my wood burning tool
and get to stipling.;)
I have three Gen4 Glocks, a 22, and a pair of 19's, not a single problem out of several thousand rounds that wasn't intentionally introduced to the mechanism. Now as to spent brass ejecting back into my face, well as I understand it, this has been a common experience with Glock pistols for many years, it's certainly something I've come to expect, especially with the G19's, 26's, and the G30's though the phenomenon is largely endemic to all Glock pistols to some extent....It's one big reason why I no longer own a .45 ACP Glock pistol.
I know two things for certain, the hotter the ammo in a new Glock, the quicker that this problem vanishes, or is greatly diminished, further, spent .45 ACP brass right between the eyes really gets your attention....
I know two things for certain, the hotter the ammo in a new Glock, the quicker that this problem vanishes, or is greatly diminished, further, spent .45 ACP brass right between the eyes really gets your attention....
ROFL! I haven't had the pleasure of that with my G21 SF RTF2 yet.
And our latest, a late model RTF2 G19 has run 700 rounds so far very well. One FTF in first mag (follower seemed stuck) and 100% since then.
I just have the best luck picking these pups. ;)
Alpha Sierra
07-29-11, 10:28
It is curious that Glock has a few problems with a redesign, is addressing the issue, and some owners resort to aftermarket parts and the world is coming to an end. However, S&W has as many or more problems with a substantially similar pistol and yet it's not that big a deal.
Code3Patriot
07-29-11, 10:56
It is curious that Glock has a few problems with a redesign, is addressing the issue, and some owners resort to aftermarket parts and the world is coming to an end. However, S&W has as many or more problems with a substantially similar pistol and yet it's not that big a deal.
Roger that.
I have a early Gen4 19 (June 2010, SN# - PPYxxx) with a 03 RSA. So far 1k rounds of 115gr. FMJ, and 250 rounds of various 124gr and 147gr Gold Dot and Ranger ammo. X300 has been mounted during all of my range time. No FTEs, no FTFs and no brass in my face. I've been meaning to call Glock and get the newest RSA for the G19, but since my weapon has been running like a champ out of the box I haven't ever made it my top priority for the day.
Heavy Metal
07-29-11, 11:10
My buddy, a glock armorer, sent me this photo last night of his Gen 4 G19.
Essentially he was cleaning his gun and saw this copperish color on one of the rails of his gun and thought some of the copper paste lapping compound Glock is known for had made its way to the rail.
Since he didn't think it was a good idea on a rail, he tried wiping it off but to no avail.
On closer inspection it appears that the metal hardening process was defective and that a chunk of material had come off revealing the soft metal underneath. He says it's a pretty sharp edge. He is less than pleased and left a message with the Glock rep.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll99/GutshotJohn/photo.jpg
The copper you see should not be confused with the copper anti-seize Glock applies which is NOT a lapping compound!
What you are looking at is the copper substrate to the electroplated nickel-teflon finish Glock applies to some of its parts.
This is a sacrificial plating that wears away over time if the frame rails are not kept lubricated. It is basically an emergency dry film lubricant to ensure function should the weapon ever lack lube.
Nephrology
07-29-11, 15:42
So here's a heads up on something weird with my G17RTF2.
It's been kind of a teethy pistol - a bunch of failures to return to battery that I (Think) fixed by putting in a new RSA. I bought it from Numrich instead of calling Glock but in the future I think I'll put it on their tab, not mine...
So with that in mind, when I took down the slide for the first time last night to clean it (Just passed the 2k round challenge, well minus the FTRTBs...) when lo and behold, the extractor depressor plunger bearing is GREEN and not black. For those who don't know, the EDP bearing on 9mm Glocks is black, white for .40/.357 and olive green for 10mm/.45s.
Called up Glock and the tech sounded surprised. It wasn't the entire EDP assembly either- just the bearing. Either way I'm getting a new one in the mail soon.
It is curious that Glock has a few problems with a redesign, is addressing the issue, and some owners resort to aftermarket parts and the world is coming to an end. However, S&W has as many or more problems with a substantially similar pistol and yet it's not that big a deal.
Whether or not Glock is addressing anything is up for debate.
S&W has addressed their dead trigger issues and hasn't threatened to sue anyone or been thrown off any police ranges while doing it. ;)
C4
My buddy, a glock armorer, sent me this photo last night of his Gen 4 G19.
Essentially he was cleaning his gun and saw this copperish color on one of the rails of his gun and thought some of the copper paste lapping compound Glock is known for had made its way to the rail.
Since he didn't think it was a good idea on a rail, he tried wiping it off but to no avail.
On closer inspection it appears that the metal hardening process was defective and that a chunk of material had come off revealing the soft metal underneath. He says it's a pretty sharp edge. He is less than pleased and left a message with the Glock rep.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll99/GutshotJohn/photo.jpg
I've had this happen to an old gen 2 G23 (CH prefix)
It ran fine so I paid it no mind. No longer have the pistol.
IIRC the rails, and other parts like the trigger bar and connector are nickel plated. Looks to be a defect in the plating and exposure of the copper plating sublayer underneath?
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