View Full Version : Scope Recommend (Details in Thread)
I have a 700 LA 300 Win Mag--Nothing speical--thin barrel, standard wood laminate stock. Off the shelf bargin deal from a few years ago when I was young and stupid.
It needs glass--this is my hunting rifle. Primarily will be shorter range 200 yards in (Midwest Deer/Hogs). But I'm also look at potential future hunts and caliber potential so im looking at a 4-16 or similar Magnification (want to go above 10, but keep a lower Mag for short range).
What I'd really like is a Mil-Dot or Milrad style scope--I'm not sold on the BDC or even the Leupold CDS. (Or even the Boone and Crocket although I guess the 300 Win Mag and 270 had similar flights according to the Winchester Ballistic Calculator). I realize for a hunting rifle its not nessecary--but this is more of a "nice to have"
What are my options in the 500-750 range for a Mil-Dot (or Mil-rad) reticle on a Variable power scope. Otherwise I'm thinking a Leupold VX3 or maybe a Nikon Monarch (ok probably the Leupold) with standard crosshairs.
I realize that there are better options to be had in the higher cash--but I have my true precision rifle for that--this really is just a hunting piece--so I am a bit reluctant to put $1000+ glass on a $400 rifle.
I would say go for the Super Sniper. Mine however is a 10X fixed. Good for tactical, but not so much for Hunting where you might want to dial it down.
I think they do have a Variable power model at SWFA.com that still fits your price range. That would probably fit into your price and reticle requirements.
Call Scott @ Liberty Optics. (406-827-6543) He has a few that should fit your budget.
Ask about the vortex PST, or Bushnell tactical to start with... then he may have a few other lower priced options as well.
I'd stick with a 3-12 or 4-16 style power range.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 13:44
Your optics should at least be as much as your rifle. In this case, it should be at least $400. Go for a SS10x or a SS3-9x if you hvae some more dough
Gutshot John
07-14-11, 13:51
Ditto the recommendation on liberty optics. Scott is one of the most knowledgeable people you can talk to and will get you into the scope you need.
Your optics should at least be as much as your rifle. In this case, it should be at least $400. Go for a SS10x or a SS3-9x if you hvae some more dough
I fail to see how cost of optics is a deciding factor in relation to the price of your rifle. I have a $3000 scope on a $400 rifle sometimes.
The task at hand is the only deciding factor. In this case, the man said he wanted a mil reticle. In which case he wants mil turrets (whether he knows this or not yet) and probably wants a FFP reticle (if not, he will after he tries one of the scopes I suggested) and he wants it for hunting.
This means 4-16x will be in order.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 14:08
Because it's retarded to put a Schmidt and Bender on a base Savage Mark II .22 just as much as it is putting a Barska on a GAP. I'm just speaking of best price compromise. The 10xHD and 3-9x have mil/mil adjustments and are both around the 500-700 dollar range used.
Because it's retarded to put a Schmidt and Bender on a base Savage Mark II .22
Why? If you planned on shooting tiny holes with it at 10yds to 200yds... what other high magnification scope that has a reputation of S&B that also focuses parallax free at 10yds, what other options are there?
The point is, the cost of the rifle is not relevant.
I would second the Super Sniper. The guys at Rifles Only did some testing with it and had good things to say about it. I think they just came out with a first focal plane scope too.
R.
cheaptrick
07-14-11, 15:44
Love the Super Snipers. I have a 10x rear focus, 3-9x and the 1-4x.
That said, where I hunt, a Mil Dot reticle is not an ideal hunting reticle.
Can lose it in low light conditions and/or in brush.
That said, I've mounted up my 3-9x SS on my .308 to take on a TX hog hunt in Sept.
Hard to beat a plain 'ol German #4 for hunting.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 15:59
Why? If you planned on shooting tiny holes with it at 10yds to 200yds... what other high magnification scope that has a reputation of S&B that also focuses parallax free at 10yds, what other options are there?
The point is, the cost of the rifle is not relevant.
The 10x42, believe it or not, has parallax from 10m to infinity. It's like $350. And 10x is more than enough for 200yd
Hey man, your money, your choice. All I'm saying is if I had 3000$ to buy a rifle with optic, I'm not going to spend 300 on the rifle and 2700 on the optic, or vice versa. Go to any forum for long range shooting with a lop sided setup and you'll probably get laughed off the site, not unlike when someone comes here with a $3000 AR and a PA RDS.
That said, OP, a super sniper is probably your best bet. check them out at SWFA.com.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 16:00
Why? If you planned on shooting tiny holes with it at 10yds to 200yds... what other high magnification scope that has a reputation of S&B that also focuses parallax free at 10yds, what other options are there?
The point is, the cost of the rifle is not relevant.
Oh, and if you're shooting a target from 10yd away with a magnified scope, you're doing it wrong...
Ok shaneinhisroom, you win. You keep buying optics based on the price of your rifle. I'll keep buying optics based on my intended use of said rifle.
We'll both be happy.
Gutshot John
07-14-11, 17:52
Oh, and if you're shooting a target from 10yd away with a magnified scope, you're doing it wrong...
Really? So all those guys that use magnified optics during CQB are wrong?
What's your background?
Really? So all those guys that use magnified optics during CQB are wrong?
What's your background?
It's not that you're doing it wrong, it's very just difficult to do. Try it some time, you'll see what I mean.
Alpha Sierra
07-14-11, 17:59
I'm gonna have to go with orkan on this. He makes too much sense.
Gutshot John
07-14-11, 18:04
It's not that you're doing it wrong, it's very just difficult to do. Try it some time, you'll see what I mean.
I've shot magnified scopes as close as 3 yards.
It's not that hard.
Go to any forum for long range shooting with a lop sided setup and you'll probably get laughed off the site
Only if the people on that forum didn't know what the hell they are talking about. ... in which case I wouldn't be there hanging out with you.
$800 rifle, $3,000 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/IMG_3958.JPG
$700 rifle, $2,800 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/40x/IMG_5127.JPG
$500 rifle, $1,800 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/rem700/IMG_1532.jpg
$4,200 rifle, $3000 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/surgeon/IMG_0010.JPG
Shit, ok that last one doesn't count, but in NO INSTANCE did the price of the rifle determine which optic I purchased.
Didn't the snipershide cup have targets at 11yds? I know several matches I've competed in have little hostage targets setup at 11yds. Apparently the 11 yard thing comes from the closest that any sniper had to take out a target or something. I forget the story. It spawned the requirement for LE shooters to train at very close ranges using their standard issue rifle optic.
This was one of the large reasons that S&B is so popular amongst LE agencies and military. (many other reasons too obviously) The S&B 5-25 will focus parallax free down to 10yds even when on 25x. Also lends itself very well to 22LR and air rifle competition which can often take place at 10yds - 50yds.
None of this has shit to do with the price of the rifle. ONLY the intended use of said rifle.
More often than not, I see it go the other way. A $1500 rifle, wearing a $300 barska or some stupid shit like that.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 20:01
Only if the people on that forum didn't know what the hell they are talking about. ... in which case I wouldn't be there hanging out with you.
$800 rifle, $3,000 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/IMG_3958.JPG
$700 rifle, $2,800 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/40x/IMG_5127.JPG
$500 rifle, $1,800 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/rem700/IMG_1532.jpg
$4,200 rifle, $3000 optic.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/surgeon/IMG_0010.JPG
Shit, ok that last one doesn't count, but in NO INSTANCE did the price of the rifle determine which optic I purchased.
Didn't the snipershide cup have targets at 11yds? I know several matches I've competed in have little hostage targets setup at 11yds. Apparently the 11 yard thing comes from the closest that any sniper had to take out a target or something. I forget the story. It spawned the requirement for LE shooters to train at very close ranges using their standard issue rifle optic.
This was one of the large reasons that S&B is so popular amongst LE agencies and military. (many other reasons too obviously) The S&B 5-25 will focus parallax free down to 10yds even when on 25x. Also lends itself very well to 22LR and air rifle competition which can often take place at 10yds - 50yds.
None of this has shit to do with the price of the rifle. ONLY the intended use of said rifle.
More often than not, I see it go the other way. A $1500 rifle, wearing a $300 barska or some stupid shit like that.
First picture, not a stock rifle (R700). Suppressed, bolt knob, floated stock, who knows if the action was trued or any other performance modifications. If I were to guess, probably close to a $2000 rifle all said and done. Good scope for the rifle.
The following examples are just that then- what ARE the intended use of the rifles? Answer me this.
If they're stock rifles, obviously not bench shooting. The scopes suggest a more tactical use- but on a wooden stock? Said scope would then be too bulky and overkill for hunting unless you're in a car or up in a tower (although some people do roll with S&B and Hensoldts when they hunt in really harsh conditions). The third picture suggests a tactical rifle as well, looks like a R700 LTR, which is actually a $1000 rifle stock. (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411537493). A nightforce is very well paired with such a rifle as long, even stock.
Do all of these rifles belong to http://www.gregd.net/? Whose John Gabriel and what does he do?
MY point is, if you buy an expensive rifle, buy an expensive optic. If you buy a cheap rifle for plinking, there's no need to go all out on a Hensoldt if your rifle can't shoot 3/8MOA. That said, I am willing to compromise and say that, your optic should be EQUAL or GREATER than your rifle, since a rifle can be upgraded and a scope....not very easily.
11yd competition, huh. I will bow to this one if you can show me some evidence on SH.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 20:04
Really? So all those guys that use magnified optics during CQB are wrong?
What's your background?
This thread has NO relevance to CQB. Unless you can find me a 700 in 300Win Mag used in special forces for room clearing :rolleyes:
Common sense, man. Now you're just here for the sake of arguing.
John Gabriel is the one explaining in that simple illustration why you are the way you are in this thread.
Yes, I'm Greg Dykstra, and all of those rifles belong to me. (as well as MANY others) You are off on the total cost of the first rifle by about a THOUSAND dollars.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1288071
... and there is the proof, about a third of the way down the page.
If only you knew as much as you try to ACT like you do... shit like this would never happen.
As I said, you go ahead and keep buying optics based on the cost of the rifle. Shouldn't you be practicing your dinty moore slaying skills at a mile plus?
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 20:29
Can you answer my other questions now?
The following examples are just that then- what ARE the intended use of the rifles?
Almost all Schmidt & Bender PMII scopes have parallax adjustment ranges from 50m to infinity. Only two exceptions: 5-25x56 PMII and 12,5-50x56 PMII, which have adjustment ranges from 10m to infinity.
When TBurkes (hi, Tony!) is saying he talked to an S&B engineer I think he is referring to me (btw, the conversation was in english...). And he is right: the low end spec of the 5-25x56 PMII parallax adjustment range was designed with air rifle shooters in mind!
?????? I don't see anything that quotes a COMPETITION, just a scope that was marketed to an air rifle crowd that may doubles as a possible close quarter sniping scope.
EDIT: OK I see a SH match. Hostage shot, typical. I thought it was an actual serious match that people int he industry have to qualify for. Maybe it is, I dunno. Still sounds a little bit silly to me, but I'll be an adult about it and say I am mistaken.
If only you knew as much as you try to ACT like you do... shit like this would never happen.
This is getting into a flame war and I don't participate in those. Answer my other questions and if I am wrong then I will apologize and leave. No need to be so hasty.
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 20:30
Did you seriously just edit your post JUST to put in
As I said, you go ahead and keep buying optics based on the cost of the rifle. Shouldn't you be practicing your dinty moore slaying skills at a mile plus? ?!
Jeez man, I'm done with you.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1282390#Post1282647
There, I'll link you to the SPECIFIC POST being you are either too lazy or can't find it.
See that hostage target? At the cup, as well as several matches I've been to personally... THAT TARGET is put up at 11yds. Understand now?
Please continue to call me out. As a college kid fresh into his first AR15, I'm sure you have a LOT to teach me. Flame war? Hardly. You trying to convince people to buy optics based on the price of the rifle... is laughable at best. Hardly flame worthy. This how they are teaching kids to behave at Case Western lately?
You seem to want to argue endlessly, when the ONLY exception I took to any of your posts is that you think the value of the rifle has something to do with what kind of optic to put on it. Concede that point... and I'll leave you alone. That difficult? Be a man, admit it has no bearing on optics selection, and learn from this. Is it really that hard?
shaneinhisroom
07-14-11, 20:55
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1282390#Post1282647
There, I'll link you to the SPECIFIC POST being you are either too lazy or can't find it.
See that hostage target? At the cup, as well as several matches I've been to personally... THAT TARGET is put up at 11yds. Understand now?
Please continue to call me out. As a college kid fresh into his first AR15, I'm sure you have a LOT to teach me. Flame war? Hardly. You trying to convince people to buy optics based on the price of the rifle... is laughable at best. Hardly flame worthy. This how they are teaching kids to behave at Case Western lately?
You seem to want to argue endlessly, when the ONLY exception I took to any of your posts is that you think the value of the rifle has something to do with what kind of optic to put on it. Concede that point... and I'll leave you alone. That difficult? Be a man, admit it has no bearing on optics selection, and learn from this. Is it really that hard?
I commend you for anger editing four times, including one in which you stalk me. It really shows me the maturity you have. I already told you, I believe an optic should equal or exceed the cost of the rifle for all intended purposes.
I understand you like high end scopes on mid end rifles. Fine. I have no problem with that. But when I"m recommending something to someone, I have my own opinions and if they choose not to abide by it, fine, no harm done. I don't have a bajillion dollars like you (like you said, I'm still in college :confused: even though I'm not :rolleyes:)
The OP SAID he's in the 500-700 dollar range for a mil dot scope and I recommended two. He also said he's reluctant to put 1000$ on a 400$ rifle. So based on that info, I gave him my opinions. Him having a $400 rifle, I feel like he should have at least a $400 scope. FOR ALL INTENDED PURPOSES.
Can we make up and kiss kiss now?!
Edit: according to a whois, you own primalrights.com. and I saw a Reddit alien on the bottom, so you must be a gunnitor. I'm almost embarrassed. And please, do not stalk me. Googling my name and going to Twitter doesn't prove anything. It's scary and very unprofessional.
Call Scott @ Liberty Optics. (406-827-6543) He has a few that should fit your budget.
Ask about the vortex PST, or Bushnell tactical to start with... then he may have a few other lower priced options as well.
I'd stick with a 3-12 or 4-16 style power range.
Ditto the recommendation on liberty optics. Scott is one of the most knowledgeable people you can talk to and will get you into the scope you need.
Double ditto on Scott @ Liberty Optics - Good prices, great service and free shipping.
I bought my Vortex Viper PST 4-16 FFP mil/mil from him. It sits on a .308 R700P. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but will in a couple of weeks.
Double ditto on Scott @ Liberty Optics - Good prices, great service and free shipping.
I bought my Vortex Viper PST 4-16 FFP mil/mil from him.
That would be a GREAT choice for the OP! Good reticle, excellent glass, nice magnification range, and good field of view.
Shane, I thought you were done with me? I never claimed to not be scary, or be a professional, so ... thank you. :) Am I dismissed now? :lol: I'm angry? News to me. You can't concede that rifle price isn't the deciding factor in purchasing optics, and I'm immature? Well I probably am... but at least I know I'm not alone!
Is this where I drop a "bro" and we hug? I'm glad you graduated. (you did graduate right?) Now you can get a job and buy more guns! (or a lotus)
Gutshot John
07-14-11, 22:36
This thread has NO relevance to CQB. Unless you can find me a 700 in 300Win Mag used in special forces for room clearing :rolleyes:
You were the one that made the claim that if you're shooting at 10 yards with magnified optics you're doing it wrong. Never say never.
Who said anything about a .300WM? No one until your above post. You didn't qualify what a magnified optic was at all, you just made a blanket statement that was patently absurd, more significantly...yes people shoot at 10 yards with bolt action sniper rifles. So you're transparently wrong on both counts. Yes a magnified bolt gun is not a preferred CQB setup, that's a whole other animal than saying it is never used at CQB ranges.
I know you're new here but as some friendly advice I'd recommend that you think before you speak and you'll save yourself some embarrassment. Orkan and I have seen things differently over time, but at least he knows what the **** he's talking about. So far all you've provided is bluster.
People with your style don't generally last long here.
shaneinhisroom
07-15-11, 05:43
I have a 700 LA 300 Win Mag--Nothing speical--thin barrel, standard wood laminate stock. Off the shelf bargin deal from a few years ago when I was young and stupid.
Ok- I'll be a man here and back off and apologize then.
shaneinhisroom
07-15-11, 05:59
OP- ignore all this riff raff. There's been some good advice and I'll reiterate mine. A SWFA or Vortex PST are both great scopes. Liberty Optics is a great place to ask and buy, as well as SWFA.com and CSTactical if you want the more high end tier of scopes.
GL and post pics!
To the OP, for a hunting scope a lot of folks around my neck of the woods are sold on the Sightron SII Big Sky series. In a mil-dot, I'd recommend a Sightron SIIB 4.5-14x44mm scope (Sightron Part Number SIIBSS451444MD). The others that have been mentioned are all excellent scopes, but this one is a freakin' bargain at the price.
Does scott have any sightrons in stock right now? Call him and check obviously.
I've got a couple sightron's and they are quality. Very nice package for the money, but these days I'm all FFP all the time. My SFP stuff is sitting back of the bus giving me dirty looks because it never gets used. That being said, I think my favorite sightron is the 3.5-10x44. One of the cleanest packages you can find.
When you can get ffp/mil/mil or ffp/moa/moa for around $750... its hard to spend the same money on a scope with mismatched reticle/turrets, a standard mildot reticle, and no illumination.
Whew not that the smoke has cleared I'll definitely been checking out the Vortex PST (along with the others) and giving Liberty optics a call.
Thanks all--I'd been lazy and browsing Cabela's/Bass Pro Shop locally and found nothing to my liking.
The SS looks like a heck of a bargain (always has) but the mag options just aren't there yet--3-9X is tempting though. if it were 308 I'd call it done.
I'll throw my hat into the mix, I'd recommend the SWFA SS 3-9x42. 3x is still good at short range, just a little slower, 9x can hit out at 1000 yards, not the most accurate but can hit steel. New they are $600 and used run in the mid to high $400's.
It's mil/mil and FFP and has a good amount of adjustment. They just released the new reticle so if you are buying new you get an extra choice.
I'm using this on my ar in a salt mount and have been very happy with it so far. As long as you shoot with both eyes open, 3x a close range is still really fast!
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