View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical Carbine I, July 9-10, 2011, Pittsburgh
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Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
My previous experience:
I have had Ken Hackathorn's Advanced Pistol, Larry's Level I Pistol, and numerous local Vickers Shooting Method classes.
TD1/TD2:
I would hit them in chronological order but after 4 days of shooting and catching up at work I will instead hit the high points.
The first day started with the normal introduction, safety brief, and Larry's real world safety rules.
Rule one; Know and adhere to the real world safety rules
that govern professional firearms handling.
Rule two; Only accurate hits on target can decide the
fight in your favor – therefore accuracy is King.
Rule three; You are accountable for every round you fire – squeeze the trigger as if your life depends on it because it does.
Following that we were instructed to get our pistols ready and told he was gonna try something new. I was certainly not concerned, but defenitely curious as to the reason for this. It was soon explained and obvious that we were working on trigger control. The pistol is excellent for this and we were walked through a few of Larry's usual drills. As expected, the reasons for the drills seen and then worked through. We were told that any time we had an issue with trigger control to revert back to the very first thing we did. I thought this was a nice approach and seeing how things went later reinforced those thoughts.
We gathered the carbines, broke for water, and got ready to zero. Larry discussed various zeroes and what he preferred and then walked us through a rough zero, stressing over and over that we need to confirm at a distance. Once zeroing was concluded at ~25y and then 50y we worked in positional shooting and then did a few timed drills through various positions.
Following positional shooting, Larry covered reloads, pistol transitions, shoulder transitions, and malfunction clearances. In typical LAV fashion many team drills were done and things were kept competitive. Day 2 concluded with SOTM, which Larry always calls his "For Those About to Rock" of the class. Before departure the purpose behind his target choice was discussed. I would go into more detail, but it is far easier to just give the class my highest recommendation and tell everyone to get out there to the closest class.
Positives and Negatives:
Loved the class. Larry was on his game, funny as hell and did not let a single thing slip by. Gear karma bit a few people, as predicted by Larry, and he made a point to explain every detail on his opinion.
Other comments:
The VSM program is an excellent lead-in to this class. Pair it with the Vickers Carbine videos and you should have a solid base to enter this class with.
I would also suggest a basic handgun class as well. Trigger control is critical on both handguns and long guns, but starting with a pistol is the way to go.
I also want one of the new Surefire 60 round mags.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
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www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
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www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg
www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
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www.vickerstactical.com
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
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glock_forty5
07-14-11, 20:03
Orionz06,
Great AAR! Thanks for taking pictures. It was great training with you. You were super fast on hitting the steel "standing like a man"! Did you shoot irons for the second class? What shoes did you wear? :lol:
My AAR (I will add to Orionz06's),
Larry designs his class with a proper mixture of lecture and application. Never was my attention deficit disordered mind wandering, I was engaged the entire class. He started with the most fundamental skill and built from there. No matter how advanced the skill being taught Larry made sure the focus on the fundamentals was not lost. Those that lost sight of the basics were corrected (he sees everything).
Larry likes to temp his class to push the limits of accuracy by splitting the class in to teams. Larry will have the teams execute the lesson he just taught under the clock. Now Larry's scoring severely penalizes misses so going fast for speeds sake was a no no. The competitions went on through out the class, from beginning concepts to more advanced shooting on the move. Good times.
Larry is a great instructor. He is very clear in his explanations and expectations. Instant feedback is given to those that stray from the lesson (I was the recipient of some feedback on an occasion or two:D). Larry has a way with words that needs to be experienced to fully appreciate.
As a side note, Larry does not allow any video taping of his class. There is a good reason for that and you have to take the class to find out.
What a great time, excellent instruction, good class mates, and the weather cooperated.
JT aka "Avatar" (I hope this name does not stick but I will see the movie anyway just in case)
Thanks! I continued to wear my NB's and skipped the VFF's. I did not do irons in the next one, but I did do a little more left handed and found it might be worthwhile to try carbine left handed and pistol right handed.
Feel free to download any of the images and use as you wish.
glock_forty5
07-15-11, 14:30
Thanks and will do.
Thanks for the AAR and the Pics Orion. That was a great shooting class and another superb job by the LAV.
BTW Who's the cheese dick with the macho-man shades?
Long live DPMS!
thanks for the aar, already signed up for the oct 29th class. Oh and sorry for my scar hitting you with brass all class and i already took care of that battle comp.
GrandPooba
07-15-11, 17:11
any more details on the "gear karma"?
Great class, many lessons learned.
I hope to see you guys in other classes as well.
bleaman225
07-16-11, 05:26
Certainly a great class. After attending both, it was nice to see how the Basic Carbine ties in with LAV's Basic Handgun. Some things I walked away from the class with (to be edited when I have more time):
-Trigger control is easy to forget when running a carbine
-Don't assume that you will actually confirm your zero the night before.
-Sunscreen is your friend
-LAV classes are worth the price of admission for lots of reasons
BTW Who's the cheese dick with the macho-man shades?
Long live DPMS!
Most accurate DPMS ever.
I had forgotten about this rediculousness...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5937737015_12c7cbdf80_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83738781@N00/5937737015)
any more details on the "gear karma"?
Some slings were having issues. I don't personally want to go into it. I will say this though, go out and buy a BFG Vickers sling and you'll be good. Not just sayin' that cuz of the whole in a LAV AAR thing. I've been using mine with no issues for about 1.5 years. Could not be happier.
any more details on the "gear karma"?
I'm happy to go into it more because it was ME.
LAV had been riding me the whole class about my compensator (it is really obnoxious to shoot next to, although it's fine to be behind the gun itself!) and my sling.
I had been using a Magpul for a couple years because of its ability to switch from single-point to two-point, a feature I actually used on a regular basis. I had had no real problems with it.
Well, after a day and a half of being teased about it, damn if the quick release feature didn't let go and drop my rifle onto the ground. Larry truly is, as he dubbed himself, Nostradamus.
Lesson learned.
One of the secondary reasons (primary of course being to teach myself how to shoot) why I like to train with knowledgeable people is for feedback on gear. Rarely has feedback been so immediately and graphically demonstrated however!
Anyway, it was a fantastic class with an incredibly squared away group of attendees, and I'm really looking forward to Home Defense in November.
Thanks to the classmates. Everyone was very safe and fun to train with. LAV is an excellent instructor. The first day, I thought we really were not shooting much. By the end of the second day, I realized that we actually shot a lot. The pace of the class was perfect. I enjoyed the fine-tuning of my technique and gear. You guys with the Micro T1s are almost convincing me to switch from EO Tech. Tough choice. I hope to pick up a pistol class from LAV down the road.
I tried some new gear during this class: Vertical fore-grip, not for me. BravoCo Chest Rig. Liked it. Taping up the extra straps. On the BravoCo rig, double check the paracord keeper knots. I had one work loose.
If LAV ever asks you for a great rock band, don't answer Def Lepard.
If LAV ever asks you for a great rock band, don't answer Def Lepard.
Next time try ACDC. :lol:
Looks like another great class from LAV.
V/r
Uglyguns
bleaman225
07-16-11, 11:50
Next time try ACDC. :lol:
Looks like another great class from LAV.
V/r
Uglyguns
AC mother****in DC
nolacopusmc
07-16-11, 12:42
Man...I bet Larry had a freaking field day with those KSO shoes....LOL.
Priceless. :lol:
glock_forty5
07-16-11, 20:05
Man...I bet Larry had a freaking field day with those KSO shoes....LOL.
Priceless. :lol:
He called me Avatar all weekend! It could have been worse...
nolacopusmc
07-16-11, 21:21
He called me Avatar all weekend! It could have been worse...
Sir, i know from personal experience, it MOST CERTAINLY could have been worse. :shout::shout:
That is one of the things that makes Larry so great to train with, besides being extremely knowledgeable, he can find a way to call your mom a whore and make you laugh about it...LOL.
Hell, I would almost pay for a seat in a class just to watch him rib on guys. LOL......Larry is "good people" as we say down here. :D
My $0.02 - first, as I told JT (Avatar) separately:
- I need a LOT more practice, particularly with irons
- brakes are just plain awful - sorry everyone - I'm going to build up at least 1 pre-ban rifle so that I can use a standard flash hider for classes (and then eventually move out from behind enemy lines so that I can get beyond this pre-ban/post-ban stuff)
As with my previous LAV class, the targets, team competitions and walk-backs don't lie. His focus on accuracy at all times is, in my inexperienced and humble opinion, the only way to go. More generally, classes are a great place to get your tools & gear sorted. SPF 50 is your friend.
If you haven't taken one of Larry's classes yet, you simply need to get off the proverbial couch and do it. You owe it to yourself. The money spent (out of pocket costs, logistics, opportunity cost of your time) is "worth it" many, many times over. There are lots of trainers and lots of classes, but the quality of the instruction, insights and experience (and laughs) you get with the LAV are great. I just signed up for the 3-day advanced pistol class in September in Moyock at USTC - an even longer haul for me from MA, but well worth it. Now I just need to bring my pistol shooting up to a semi-acceptable level, so that I don't totally embarrass myself.
Great class, Had a good time.
Jay Cunningham
07-18-11, 07:34
Great class, many lessons learned.
And thanks to Jay and orionz for hosting the event.
I hope to see you guys in other classes as well.
Thanks and great having you there!
Littlelebowski
07-18-11, 07:38
JT aka "Avatar" (I hope this name does not stick but I will see the movie anyway just in case)
Don't. Stupid ****ing movie. Go dry fire a pistol for 2 hours while watching HEAT instead. Trust me.
glock_forty5
07-18-11, 19:23
Don't. Stupid ****ing movie. Go dry fire a pistol for 2 hours while watching HEAT instead. Trust me.
Roger that!
Don't. Stupid ****ing movie. Go dry fire a pistol for 2 hours while watching HEAT instead. Trust me.
LOL. Excellent plan.
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