View Full Version : 22LR, the best teacher of precision rifle.
Every so often I hear talk about 22LR being useless as a long range training tool. I'm curious, how many of you here own a 22LR that can hold 1/2" or better at 50yds?
I have a couple, the favorite of which is a 40x. One thing that I've learned after putting a few thousand rounds through this rifle is that 22lr is more sensitive to user input than anything I have ever shot. It is harder to accurately shoot a 22lr at 50yds than it is to shoot any centerfire at 300yds. The reason for this is that the bullet is in the barrel for 3x longer than most centerfires. This means that you have 3x the time to affect the rifle.
Trigger control, finger placement on the trigger shoe, grip on the stock, cheek weld, breathing, follow through, bipod manipulation, etc. The list goes on and on, but the point is that any one of them is enough to throw a shot at 50yds.
The bedding must be perfect, and your rifle driving skills must be perfect each time to throw them in one hole at 50yds. To even hold 1/2" at 50yds is a remarkable feat. I recently attended an ARA match, in which the goal is to hold approximately 1/4" from center of POA. I shot better off a bipod than I did a one piece machine rest, simply because I was more familiar prone with a bipod and rear bag than I was up on a bench. Scoring over 2000 in these matches is considered an impressive feat. This really drove home just how difficult it is to consistently shoot a 22LR accurately.
As a result, I've spent more and more time behind my 40x. It is cheap, live-fire exercise that illustrates absolutely EVERY weakness in your shooting form, and does so at a close range. Virtually everyone can find a 50yd range to shoot at. The close distance also makes it easy to get instant feedback on your shots. A bad wind call at 50yds can result in a 1/2" shift in POI very easily, and you can see it immediately. Often, you can actually watch the bullet go down range and impact the paper. Along its flight path, you can witness the wind's effect as it happens in real time. You would not believe what this can teach you about how wind reacts to terrain.
If you don't own a good accurate 22lr, I highly suggest you get one and spend some time with it. It will let you get away with absolutely nothing, and if you put in the time, will make you a better shooter.
I have a Winchester low wall that I have been trying to shoot with some precision and find it maddening at times. But 50 yards off hand or prone will show you were you need improvement. Plus the lower price aspect of .22 is nice.
while my barrel cools, i use my 10/22 at 100yrds. It lets me get more trigger time without burning up my match stuff. It can also help me slow down. plus its just fun. :cool:
This a .22 40X. I prefer it to an air rifle because it goes bang and fits like its 7.62 big brother.
http://i45.tinypic.com/fyk47c.jpg
A .22 at 200 yards can be equated to a 7.62mm at 1,000. That little 40-grain bullet is going to be affected by your position, technique, follow-through, and atmospherics like its big brothers -- at a fraction of the cost.
Good competition air rifles can keep you in shooting practice in the winter when the weather may be too harsh for routine plinking practice. They can challenge all your skills.
Every so often I hear talk about 22LR being useless as a long range training tool. I'm curious, how many of you here own a 22LR that can hold 1/2" or better at 50yds?
Definitely. That savage bull barrel bolt gun... I forget what model it is.
It's at least that accurate with Eley, Wolf, Federal AutoMatch, etc. Very fun.
cheaptrick
07-15-11, 12:48
I too love the 'ol .22 LR. I have a CZ 452 "Trainer" that I've enjoyed shooting for a few years now.
I've shot it scoped, but I really like shooting it with the factory iron sites that came on it.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/cheaptrick_photos/100_0389.jpg
Ironically, with the kids getting up there and years and the price of ammo, I am putting together a "precision" .22LR this weekend.
The CMP still has a bunch of heavy barreled 40x receivers. Most will shoot quite well when setup with a PTG bolt and stock/trigger of your choice.
I'm addicted to the "big rifle" ergonomics of the 40x. Ruger 77/22 isn't too far behind that... but its usually more difficult to get them to behave themselves than the 40x.
What are you putting together TX Bob?
I too love the 'ol .22 LR. I have a CZ 452 "Trainer" that I've enjoyed shooting for a few years now.
I've shot it scoped, but I really like shooting it with the factory iron sites that came on it.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g19/cheaptrick_photos/100_0389.jpg
What distance do you usually shoot with irons?
And I'm thinking of scoping my Trainer...at least rimfire scopes aren't too terribly expensive.
I have an anschutz & AMT that will dump them in the same hole with wind flags and Eley Tenex & other top shelf ammo.
I used to own a full blown bench gun built up on a 40x with a tuner on the end & 2oz jewell trigger that weighed 12lbs & a 36x scope. With the correct light, you could watch your bullets fly & impact the group.
The ONLY thing you can really control with the rimfire is trying different ammo and learning what 'the wind' really does to bullets. It is a GREAT way to learn short range benchrest which I consider 300yds or less.
QuietShootr
07-15-11, 20:40
This a .22 40X. I prefer it to an air rifle because it goes bang and fits like its 7.62 big brother.
http://i45.tinypic.com/fyk47c.jpg
A .22 at 200 yards can be equated to a 7.62mm at 1,000. That little 40-grain bullet is going to be affected by your position, technique, follow-through, and atmospherics like its big brothers -- at a fraction of the cost.
Good competition air rifles can keep you in shooting practice in the winter when the weather may be too harsh for routine plinking practice. They can challenge all your skills.
That's beautiful. did that start out a CMP gun?
QuietShootr
07-15-11, 20:42
Definitely. That savage bull barrel bolt gun... I forget what model it is.
It's at least that accurate with Eley, Wolf, Federal AutoMatch, etc. Very fun.
Me too. I have a 77/22 that will cut a bug hole at 50 with Eley or RWS Subsonic for as long as you can hold it.
This a .22 40X. I prefer it to an air rifle because it goes bang and fits like its 7.62 big brother.
Yes sir. Bought it Christmas of '09 from the CMP for $400.
Alpha Sierra
07-15-11, 21:01
Indeed they are great training tools. I don't have an analog of my Howa 1500, but I do have one of my M700 prone rifle:
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/guns/DSC00595.jpg
Great fun shooting it at 100 yds
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/targets/smallbore100yd7-10-11.jpg
Black Jeep
07-15-11, 21:05
I am no precision shooter by any stretch of the imagination. However, I would say that I am a better shooter because of my 10/22. I grew up shooting .22lr and dad would give us all manner of hard targets to hit at various distances and pit my brother and I against one another to see who could shoot better. I learned the fundamentals of shooting that way.
I've spent a little bit of time with some outstanding long-range riflemen who can do amazing things out at 1,000 yards and beyond (I am NOT one of these people), who say the best way to learn to shoot long distances with a high powered rifle is to shoot at 100 yards with a .22. They were speaking primarily about reading the wind, but I think for the reasons stated in the posts above, it applies across the board.
Now I just need more time behind my Savage Mk II. :)
Savage MK II is what we are starting with for a starter.
Polymerhead
07-16-11, 09:26
Savage MK II is what we are starting with for a starter.
Great gun for the $$, mine does more like 5/8" 10-shot groups C2C at 50 yds with SK standard plus but I don't account for wind. I'll have to pick up some streamers and try to start accounting for it.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Polymerhead/SavageSupp.jpg
I plan on picking up a Savage MK II FV SR. For three reasons...1. long range cheap practice 2. Cheap suppressor host 3. FUN
I currently have a $100 MK II F and it has far surpassed my expectations in the accuracy dept.
Dist. Expert 26
07-16-11, 16:02
I've been shooting smallbore competition for several years now, and I can say without a doubt that it made me the shooter I am today, whether it be match style shooting or tactical ranges. The habits and fundamentals I learned carried over extremely well. Shooting 22lr is a great advantage, especially in the northern states where outdoor shooting is miserable for at least half the year.
NorthDakota
07-21-11, 14:08
I used to have 3 CZ 452's with "Poor man's trigger job" done on them. Very accurate.
CZ Scout -16 in
CZ American - 20 in
CZ Lux - 24 in open sight
I used to adj the Lux's rear sight to 200 yds and pop balloons on a regular basis. Not really challenging as the CZ stock is such a natural fit for open sights.
Whacked many a fat Pdog at 100+ with 1 shot kills with the American.
Sold them all foolishly to make room after a deployment. Now am accumulating them again.
I have a CZ 455 am working to try out.
I'll post pics - am confident of half-inch groups at 50 using Wolf Match Target loads...if it shoots as well as the CZ 452.
more here if interested: www.rimfirecentral.com
I have heard nothing but good about the CZ rimfire rifles. I was considering buying one myself, but just couldn't bring myself to spend the money.
Enjoy rebuilding your collection!
I was impressed enough with my Sako TRG (.308) that I figured I'd build up a Sako Quad (.22). After about six months with the pimped Quad, I sold the TRG, it just wasn't as fun to shoot.
A .22, shooting gongs at 400+ yards is loads of fun :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/quad.jpg
I have a Ruger 10/22 that I built about 15 years ago. It has on occasion produced 1/2" groups at 50 yards. It is certainly ammo dependent. I wounder what it would do if it had better than $40 glass.
I had a similar issue last weekend--took daughter shooting. She missed (need a smaller stock for her--she's 8).
I took my time and try to really do some precision shooting and I got a 1 inch group or less @ 50 yards (I didn't actually measure--it was all in 1 square on my target) out of our Semi-Auto marlin--I went to adjust my "free" Tasco scope--and the point of aim didn't move
That's what I get for spending more on range fees than glass :lol:
But even before spending time and money on a quality rifle/glass (even a good 22)--with el-cheapo rifle and el-cheapo ammo I was able to practice and see how different things affected my accuracy--bad breathing? started opening up groups. Quick trigger pull? Flyer.
HeadHunter
07-22-11, 14:34
I've been working on the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/) for a while now. The Handgun qual for me was easy. All I had to do was shoot the course through to make Distinguished Expert.
The Light Rifle (.22LR sporter) Division, OTOH, is hard. The standard is four 7/8th groups on one A23/5 target (4 bulls/target). Has to be done 10 times, not necessarily consecutively, to make Distinguished Expert, which I haven't done yet.
http://www.americantargetcompany.com/small_bore_rifle_targets.asp#A_235
I've learned a lot about benchrest marksmanship working on it.
But even before spending time and money on a quality rifle/glass (even a good 22)--with el-cheapo rifle and el-cheapo ammo I was able to practice and see how different things affected my accuracy--bad breathing? started opening up groups. Quick trigger pull? Flyer.
When you get a good accurate rifle with good glass... you'll be able to see more yet.
Favor the left side of the trigger too much? - shot goes right.
Favor the right side? - Shot goes left.
Put too much pressure on the bipod? - shot goes high
Put too much downward pressure on the rifle into the rear bag? - shot goes low.
It goes on and on. This re-enforces good shooting form, as you can see your mistakes as they happen, providing a solid frame of reference as to what you are doing.
Obviously everyone's rifle will behave slightly differently... but so far, what my 40x has done has echoed what I see in my other rifles.
Count me in as another who's "rediscovered" the lowly rimfire, and who's now having more fun shooting them than their big bore cousins.
I believe this weekend i'm going to chop and recrown my barrel on my MK II F, change the scope bases, maybe bed it, and work on a cheek riser.
If a screw it up, it only cost me 100 bucks...
EDIT: i chopped the barrel, it went well. I just followed this video to clean up the muzzle and crown. Guess i'll see if it shoots tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZlG28fI
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