Military Arms Review: HK MR556A1 [Archive]

MilitaryArms

07-16-11, 19:05

I just posted a full review of the HK MR556A1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb_Ok410yuw

Here's part II, the disassembly video. It will give you some visibility into the internals of the rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj3hx_ARRQ

Questions and comments are welcome.

superman

07-16-11, 21:04

shot it < and just about all of them a good runnin rifle is a good runnin rifle no matter the make. shot a double star m4 16 in with a aimpoint pro today both new out the box after 5 minutes of tunning its a mans best freind, bustin ide 4"clays at 150 yrds. can all of them take punishment is the question. hk is known for that

Mr. Goodtimes

07-16-11, 21:52

I think the MR556 can really be a winner of they just change a few things. Give me a lighter profile barrel, available short barrels and a full auto BCG. I'd prefer chrome lined but if the Krauts really are using some kind of unicorn tears barrel steel then maybe it doesn't need to be? If HK can fix the above things, I might just buy an MR556. I'd be sold on a 10.5in barreled version.

K Town

07-16-11, 22:40

Excellent video review as always (I really enjoy the AK vids). I wonder what niche of the market the MR will fit into with so much of the AR market all ready filled.

DJ_Skinny

07-16-11, 23:03

Thanks for the excellent review!! I was going to ask you about the oddly angled grip, but you answered that at the end of the video. Well done!

Duffy

07-16-11, 23:58

Very well done, yours is one of the few I have watched from beginning to end, informative and to the point, I have to keep a look out for more of your reviews :D

Blaidd Drwg

07-17-11, 08:11

A great review. About every question that could be answered was. I had considered one of these but due to slips in the availability, I went ahead and purchased an SR-15. I'm glad I did. The weight is the big issue. I did get to look at an MR556 at a local shop. Their price was $2750.

ForTehNguyen

07-17-11, 08:49

not digging the fact that you need that tool to use the takedown pins. First thing I would change out is to put standard takedown pins in it.

kermit4161

07-17-11, 10:04

Great videos! Thanks for posting them. It'll be interesting to see if they offer just the upper at some point. That'd illuminate the PMag issue.

C-grunt

07-17-11, 11:00

Cant watch it now but will later. Ive liked all your reviews so far and am looking forward to this one.

Handling the MR556 at the local shop kinda disapointed me. It screams quality but I cant get over the weight.

SMT85

07-17-11, 11:07

great review. ive been waiting for you to do this since you announced it. thank you

Hunter Rose

07-17-11, 11:14

You should watch out, lightning may strike you down after committing the unacceptable heresy of mating the HK upper to an Olympic Arms lower.:nono:

Iraqgunz

07-17-11, 11:30

I was wondering about this as well. If they are dimensionally the same I swap them out.

This is one of the best videos I have seen thus far explaining the various nuances about the MR556. Overall it gets an A+.

not digging the fact that you need that tool to use the takedown pins. First thing I would change out is to put standard takedown pins in it.

ForTehNguyen

07-17-11, 11:31

takedown thing wouldnt be as bad if could use a bullet tip...but you cant even use that according to the vid. Not cool to me. Im not sold on the firing pin retaining pin being captive like that either and also requiring that tool.

Magic_Salad0892

07-17-11, 11:32

6933

07-17-11, 11:46

... What?

Beat me to it. How about WTF?

Patriotme

07-17-11, 11:55

Good review.

AMMOTECH

07-17-11, 12:48

Great review. Thanks.

.

Magsz

07-17-11, 12:58

Thanks for the review, it was very well put together.

The one thing i disagree about is how the rifle actually feels when shooting it.

I always thought that the recoil was VERY sharp in the shoulder, much like most piston guns. The one major difference is that the 416 is a hell of alot smoother than say an LWRC.

I have yet to meet a Piston gun, no matter how well manufactured that ran as smoothly and as softly as a DI gun.

Any more thoughts on this?

Also, i will say that the one caveat to this is that ive only shot the standard 416, never the MR556 so i may have to eat crow on the above statements. Perhaps the NINE pound weight dampens that recoil impulse a bit?

leibermuster

07-17-11, 13:19

armakraut

07-17-11, 15:25

I like how the MR556 upper still runs like a swiss watch on an Olympic lower with the castle nut on backwards and without him changing out the buffer.

Reminds me of a guy on another forum who was knocking his pins out with a punch and hammer, I guess he didn't see "read the manual" plastered on the front of his wunderwaffel either. :lol:

LowSpeed_HighDrag

07-17-11, 15:29

Very informative and well made review! I like the theory behind the MR556, but I dont like the rifle itself.

wolf_walker

07-17-11, 16:19

Own a Porsche or Mercedes or two and you could have perfectly predicted what a piston driven AR from Germany would be like. The takedown pins are classic German mindset, so is the weight. It most likely does what they intended it to do very well. Often times this differs from what the end user wants it to do though. Very very German. I'd bite if I could afford it.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

MountainRaven

07-17-11, 16:32

I agree largely with what you and others have said about disliking this rifle, concerning weight, take-down pins, &c.

But I don't like that the safety can be operated without the hammer being cocked. (I don't like this about AKs or FALs, either.) I stow my long guns hammer down and the inability to operate the safety on an AR, SCAR, M1, &c. tells me that the hammer is not cocked and there cannot, therefore, be a round in the chamber. (No, I do not use the afore mentioned feature in place of a proper press check nor do I use it as an excuse to ignore safe firearm handling protocol.)

Great videos! Thanks for posting them. It'll be interesting to see if they offer just the upper at some point. That'd illuminate the PMag issue.

HKParts.net has them for about $2000.

ETA: I wonder how difficult it would be for someone like Adco to flute the barrel or stick it on a lathe and trim down its weight a bit....

ForTehNguyen

07-17-11, 17:03

anyone know it returns to zero after removing the handguard to expose the piston

wolf_walker

07-17-11, 17:45

anyone know it returns to zero after removing the handguard to expose the piston

The review indicated HK says it does, yes.

An Undocumented Worker

07-17-11, 19:46

I'm going to take a wild ass guess, but I would bet the velocity difference between the two barrels may be due to differences in chamber dimensions.

MilitaryArms

07-17-11, 20:26

I like how the MR556 upper still runs like a swiss watch on an Olympic lower with the castle nut on backwards and without him changing out the buffer.

What's funny is that I hadn't noticed the castle nut until someone else pointed it out in a post to the channel. The Oly isn't my rifle and I didn't see it. It's amazing the stuff you guys can catch in videos, very detail oriented.

CLHC

07-17-11, 20:27

Straightforward review of said rifle without beating around the bush. Nice going on that video!

GermanSynergy

07-17-11, 20:54

Outstanding review- squared away.

Safetyhit

07-17-11, 20:56

Interesting to hear the notion that a chrome lined barrel may mask imperfections and therefore adversely affect accuracy.

armakraut

07-17-11, 22:06

What's funny is that I hadn't noticed the castle nut until someone else pointed it out in a post to the channel. The Oly isn't my rifle and I didn't see it. It's amazing the stuff you guys can catch in videos, very detail oriented.

I like mine, but the barrel needs to go on a diet. Replaced the pins a few days after I got it.

http://i52.tinypic.com/minuqg.jpg

Skang

07-17-11, 22:12

I will wait till upper price goes down little bit. :D

For the price rail, stock and HK traditional sights are so ugly. :(

armakraut did you have to change the buffer tube for LMT stock or holes line up correct with HK tube?

armakraut

07-17-11, 22:17

Vltor is coming out with a replacement rail.

Hoping that Troy will do a drop in extreme battlerail for it too. They have a G36, MP5 and Galil battlerail in the works.

leibermuster

07-17-11, 22:30

Vltor is coming out with a replacement rail.

Hoping that Troy will do a drop in extreme battlerail for it too. They have a G36, MP5 and Galil battlerail in the works.

Why did you take the HK stock of, it's an improvement over the Vltor.

armakraut

07-17-11, 22:32

That's an LMT sopmod stock. So comfortable it's practically a pillow.

leibermuster

07-17-11, 22:48

That's an LMT sopmod stock. So comfortable it's practically a pillow.
Sorry didn't see that, took a quick glance at the pic..

Shiz

07-18-11, 09:49

Great review.

If you had to pick one, would you pick ACR, SCAR or MR556?

montrala

07-18-11, 10:23

Very good review. I like that it did not go into any anti-HK or pro-HK debate. Just straight assesment on product.

One thing that I want to comment - strange grip angle is something that you start to like after some time. Actually when you shoot in frontal position and NTCH it puts less strain on strong hand wirst (it is less canted). Actually it was kind of natural to me to go from A2 grip to Magpul MIAD (that is more straight than A2) on my carbine AR-15, then to HK grip on MR (I actually have Stark Grip on my HK now - I know it's funny). But for bladed stance and long pull stock A2 or MIAD angle is better.

ETA: Any word on Vltor CASV-HK? I was big fan of CASV-EL and used it on my carbine before I got HK. I'm thinking of getting IAR handguard, but if it's worth to wait for Vltor...

Steve S.

07-18-11, 10:23

Why did you take the HK stock of, it's an improvement over the Vltor.

Could you expand on this? FYI - I don't own either. Just curious.

leibermuster

07-18-11, 11:03

Could you expand on this? FYI - I don't own either. Just curious.

The only stocks I'm running right now are the Magpul CTR with extended or enhanced butt pad, I find this an awesome combination this includes Larue reciprocating cheek weld. This is for my Trij and docter sight combo. But if I wanted Puffy or meatier stock I would have just stayed with the 416 stock but added the convex butt pad instead. The LMT stock is like a pillow according to armakraut, I don't remember that hen shooting my buddies LMT though...but now that I mention it, i remember someone saying the same thing abut it.

The only down side is i Find adjusting the stock into a different position under stress can some times be a little difficult. More controlled movement getting your fingers in there and applying the pressure to adjust it...Hope that sounds right and makes sense to you..Especially where i have my LAV Blue force sling setup..

MilitaryArms

07-18-11, 11:52

Great review.

If you had to pick one, would you pick ACR, SCAR or MR556?
Not fair, now you're going to force my hand.

Keep in mind I have (2) ACR's, (2) SCAR's and of course the MR556A1. I'm not counting my SCAR 17s, just the two 16's. I shoot them pretty regularly and often times compare them side by side.

I know that the ACR doesn't have many fans here, but I can only base my assessment on my own personal experiences with each of these firearms.

Of the three listed, if I had to get rid of the others and only keep one of those listed, it would be the ACR.

Now, would I pick the ACR over a good AR15 like a Daniels Defense, BCM, Colt or something similar? Probably not. But of the 3 you inquired about, the ACR in my experience has been my favorite to shoot and the one I have come to like the most. It didn't start out that way, I originally bought the first one figuring it would have an assortment of problems based upon things I had read on the internet. I found the rifle to be ergonomic, reliable with an assortment of ammo, easy to maintain, and easy to shoot. It isn't perfect, but I've yet to find a rifle that is.

DacoRoman

07-18-11, 15:17

Hunter Rose

07-18-11, 15:59

Great review. If I remember correctly the only points that one needs to absolutely make sure are lubricated are the piston rings, but I'm curious what (other) lubrication points does the manual formally identify?

The MR556 owner's manual directs lubing all the normal parts and pretty much everything inside the receiver, even calling for heavy lube at times for the bolt and bolt carrier.

Casull

07-18-11, 18:56

I just want a legal version of the HK416, not another animal. HK tends to keep things very euro... good for some, not good for most.

Thanks for the review! it is pretty for sure.

Shiz

07-19-11, 00:35

Thanks Sturm...I appreciate your input.

Now, would I pick the ACR over a good AR15 like a Daniels Defense, BCM, Colt or something similar? Probably not.

Definitely not wanting to replace my ARs, but I like to follow the "BETA-GUNS", and see what shooters think.

(Beta guns to me are new guns like XCR, ACR, SCAR, m6, that are working out their bugs, and companies are nice enough to let the public test them...lol)

armakraut

07-19-11, 01:08

SCAR has been fielded in since 2007 and the HK416 has been in the field since 2004. Both were thoroughly vetted and combat tested well before the semi-auto sporter versions were designed.

Other designs, not so much.

120mm

07-19-11, 01:14

SCAR has been fielded in since 2007

... and is having it's problems....

morbidbattlecry

07-19-11, 05:17

That tapered bore thing really gets me. I've never heard of anything like that. And it can't be cheap to make.

montrala

07-19-11, 06:15

That tapered bore thing really gets me. I've never heard of anything like that. And it can't be cheap to make.

It is not something unknown. Tapered bore works kind like choked barrel used on match airguns and small bore (rimfire) match rifles. This kind of barrel is narrower towards end both in lands and grooves (usually by no more than thousands of an inch) and work like kind of sizing die for bullets. It is to ensure that bullets will leave barrel uniformly. It can also slightly increase bullet speed, by increasing drag and pressure, but not by huge margin. Actually first time tapered bores were used in mass production by Germans in 8,8cm FlaK and 8,8cm KwK cannon to increase round speed.

Quick search showed that in US BlackStar Barrels offers (offered? - website seem dead) tapered bore precision barrels made by Lothar Walther.

It is expensive to make barrel that way, unless manufacturer uses cold hammer forging (like HK does).

Casull

07-19-11, 06:19

... and is having it's problems....
Well, they fielded it, liked it, but it wasn't giving far too much more than the M4 (apparently[but we all know it's "advantages"])... and now it's that they're going to field a modular lower to the Mk17. (According to a post on ThefirearmBlog)

I'm very interested in where it was said they were having problems. I like researching these sorts of things. Unless you mean "problems" by it not winning a contract?

--- for the record, I'm an AR guy.

120mm

07-19-11, 06:59

Well, they fielded it, liked it, but it wasn't giving far too much more than the M4 (apparently[but we all know it's "advantages"])... and now it's that they're going to field a modular lower to the Mk17. (According to a post on ThefirearmBlog)

I'm very interested in where it was said they were having problems. I like researching these sorts of things. Unless you mean "problems" by it not winning a contract?

--- for the record, I'm an AR guy.

From http://soldiersystems.net/2010/05/11/scar-reaches-milestone-c/

Based on feedback we have received from the field, it has been a long road and the weapon continues to have its fleas. But a few examples of issues that continue to plague the weapon are the reciprocating charging handle, ergonomics issues, pencil barrel to meet weight standards, and a butt stock that can be unlocked with a simple tap in the right place. Additionally, both variants of the SCAR are said to be battering the SOPMOD II accessories during firing despite a requirement that the SCAR is compatible with them.

120mm

07-19-11, 07:05

It is not something unknown. Tapered bore works kind like choked barrel used on match airguns and small bore (rimfire) match rifles. This kind of barrel is narrower towards end both in lands and grooves (usually by no more than thousands of an inch) and work like kind of sizing die for bullets. It is to ensure that bullets will leave barrel uniformly. It can also slightly increase bullet speed, by increasing drag and pressure, but not by huge margin. Actually first time tapered bores were used in mass production by Germans in 8,8cm FlaK and 8,8cm KwK cannon to increase round speed.

Quick search showed that in US BlackStar Barrels offers (offered? - website seem dead) tapered bore precision barrels made by Lothar Walther.

It is expensive to make barrel that way, unless manufacturer uses cold hammer forging (like HK does).

Actually, both the 8.8 cm German guns were conventional bore. But the Germans did field a 2.8 cm and a 7.5 cm squeeze bore anti-tank gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.8_cm_sPzB_41

(I don't have a reference to the 7.5 cm gun, but know it exists, as I helped restore the one at the Patton Museum in Fort Knox, Kentucky.)

montrala

07-19-11, 07:59

Actually, both the 8.8 cm German guns were conventional bore. But the Germans did field a 2.8 cm and a 7.5 cm squeeze bore anti-tank gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.8_cm_sPzB_41

(I don't have a reference to the 7.5 cm gun, but know it exists, as I helped restore the one at the Patton Museum in Fort Knox, Kentucky.)

I could swear that I read about it used in 88, but my knowledge on artillery is so tiny, that I will take your word for that.

BTW Found it: 7,5/5,5cm PaK 41 with bore tapered from 75mm to 55m at exit :O . "Squeeze bore" is good term for it. Off-topic anyway.

Army Chief

07-19-11, 17:54

... and is having it's problems ...

With respect, this is something of a misleading statement. The only problems that are truly germane to the discussion right now are budgetary, as we've seen the SCAR-L cancelled in favor of the SCAR-H. Not exactly what we could call an indictment of the design, nor of it's performance.

This needn't be another SCAR-intensive thread -- and I consider 120mm a wholly credible member -- but I do think that we all need to be cautious about passing along non-attributable data on the perceived shortcomings of the system. Back to the MR ...

AC

Patriotme

07-19-11, 20:09

So we've seen how this weapon performs for the civilian market. How do you think it will perform for the Marines? As this will be a Squad Automatic Weapon and it's chief role will be full auto fire do you think it's rugged enough? I was disappointed in the buttstock and it's inability to take Pmags (especially since the Marines bought a bunch).

veeklog

07-19-11, 21:49

I had the opportunity to fire an H&K 416 yesterday for work. Nice weapon, very accurate, and hardly any recoil. With a Brugger and Thomet silencer, I did not feel any recoil at all!! A couple of observations: very front heavy, even with 10.4" barrel (just like a LWRC). Even with a silencer, the rifles chamber does get very dirty; the rifle had a one misfeed, and when I looked at the chamber it was filthy. IMO no difference than a DI M-4. The pistol grip was WIERD, and it actually hurt my hand; there was one team member that replaced the factory pistol grip with a MIAD because he felt the same way I did. The ejection port on the 416 is made of polymer just like the MR556A1. Not sure how I feel about the stock; would replace it with a new SOPMOD or ACS.

All in all, I really like the H&K 416. It was very accurate, and at 100 yards with an Eotech I was putting everything in the five ring (even though it was not sighted in for me). I really enjoyed the rifle, and would definitely look at buying a MR556A1. I am a little worried about the upper being so heavy when the H&K 416 with 10.4, but I will look at buying one next summer.

JackCatholic

12-19-11, 15:29

Not fair, now you're going to force my hand.

Keep in mind I have (2) ACR's, (2) SCAR's and of course the MR556A1. I'm not counting my SCAR 17s, just the two 16's. I shoot them pretty regularly and often times compare them side by side.

I know that the ACR doesn't have many fans here, but I can only base my assessment on my own personal experiences with each of these firearms.

Of the three listed, if I had to get rid of the others and only keep one of those listed, it would be the ACR.

Now, would I pick the ACR over a good AR15 like a Daniels Defense, BCM, Colt or something similar? Probably not. But of the 3 you inquired about, the ACR in my experience has been my favorite to shoot and the one I have come to like the most. It didn't start out that way, I originally bought the first one figuring it would have an assortment of problems based upon things I had read on the internet. I found the rifle to be ergonomic, reliable with an assortment of ammo, easy to maintain, and easy to shoot. It isn't perfect, but I've yet to find a rifle that is.

Why do you prefer the Bushmaster ACR over the SCAR and MR556A1? And why do you prefer the AR15 over the other three? I got the impression that you liked the SCAR more than the ACR from your ACR vs SCAR series. Your ACR preference is a surprise to me after watching that.

montrala

12-20-11, 04:18

How do you think it will perform for the Marines? As this will be a Squad Automatic Weapon and it's chief role will be full auto fire do you think it's rugged enough?

No it will not be a Squad Automatic Weapon. It will be Automatic Rifle. US armed forces did not field Automatic Rifle since M1918A2 BAR, so this leads to confusion of this completely separate roles. In fact since M60 MG or LMG was used in AR role (for lack of real AR), but MG or LMG are not best suited to this task.

Chief role for AR is not full auto fire. It is full auto fire capable rifle, that offers better manoeuvre and accuracy over LMG (SAW) with suppressive capability. It is (in general) more suited for offensive manoeuvre, while SAW (LMG) is more suited for area suppression and defence.

M27 is rugged enough for IAR role (at least by standards set by USMC during trials), but it definitely is not rugged enough for SAW (LMG) use. That is why it is not replacing SAW, but complimenting it.

In Warsaw Pact, we kept this roles separate all the time with RPK in role of IAR and PK in role of SAW. It is not 1:1 as we had different structure that NATO, but very close.

Ronin64

12-21-11, 23:12

I handled one of these today at the local range / gun store. Everything about it was extremely solid and well made. The HK sights were a little weird, but not bad to look through. I liked everything about it except for the weight and price tag ($2899). The rifle was heavy but felt well balanced... but this is without optics, light, magazine, etc. Adding accessories to this rifle will make the weight go through the roof! I feel this rifle would only be good for a dedicated marksman, as it wouldn't be good to have every troop carrying this beast around.

montrala

12-22-11, 04:43

Adding accessories to this rifle will make the weight go through the roof! I feel this rifle would only be good for a dedicated marksman, as it wouldn't be good to have every troop carrying this beast around.

Actually M27 IAR is lighter than MR556A1 or MR223 (even with longer handguard, heavier sights and grippod vs. MR with sights ony). Actually all HK416 versions (while little heavier that M4 with same barrel length and same railed handguard length) are much lighter than MR556A1/MR223. This is due extremely heavy barrel profile used by HK in their "civilian Match Rifles". Same goes to MR308 versus HK417 in .308 (but German army G28 DMR rifle is patterned after MR308 due to heavier and more accurate barrel, HK417 did not fill requirements).

MilitaryArms

12-22-11, 10:36

Much of the weight in the MR556A1 is in the barrel. The 416 doesn't have the same weight/contour barrel as the civilian MR556A1, so it's lighter and handier. I don't know what the barrel contour is like on the USMC IAR. Given it's intended to be used as an automatic weapon I would assume it has a heavier barrel profile.