Over under on who the Norway attack culprits are?

[30 cal slut]

:rolleyes:

[Iraqgunz]

I am almost certain that this was carried out by some right wing Norwegian extremists.


:rolleyes:

[dennisuello]

wait, they have Tea Party in Norway also?

[chadbag]

I've read some speculation that Libya (Qadaffi) might be behind it since Norway F16s are part of the whole bombing thing.

No real ideas...

[variablebinary]

It's all the gun owning veterans coming home.

[Suwannee Tim]

Lutherans. That's who did it. Norway is full of them.

[Heavy Metal]

:rolleyes:

Those damn Menonites!

[Moose-Knuckle]

Let me guess, are they faithful followers of a certain peaceful religion?

[montanadave]

Let me guess, are they faithful followers of a certain peaceful religion?


The Lutherans or the Mennonites?

[variablebinary]

I haven't read up on the attacks because I had my wisdom teeth out this morning and I am plenty drugged.

However, lets keep in mind, that northern Europe is filled with anarchist groups, communists, and socialists that are more than willing to blow stuff up.

Might be Islam, possible it might not be too considering the more than willing extremists in northern Europe.

[LHS]

Reports are coming in that it's a Norwegian farmer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43854355/ns/world_news-europe/



Police arrested a 32-year-old Norwegian man on the island, linked him to both assaults and said they did not know the motive.

Norwegian media identified him as Anders Behring Breivik and said authorities searched his home.

[Suwannee Tim]

Let me guess, are they faithful followers of a certain peaceful religion?

Surely you don't mean Muslims Mr. Knuckle.

[ghostman1960]

There had to be more than one shooter with so many casualties. One witness described the shooting as coming from all different directions.

[ForTehNguyen]

80 dead at the camp, 7 dead at the car bomb

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NORWAY_EXPLOSION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-22-22-06-19

[Belmont31R]

Before anyone gets confused on the difference between politics there and here....


Basically both right and left there are socialists....but the right wing is more nationalistic. IE they don't want a ton of immigration of outsiders and are traditionalists. A conservative European usually means they just want to preserve their way of life and tradition. Doesn't mean they are like American conservatives which has to do with limited government and spending. A European conservative usually still supports the socialist state welfare programs.


The left there is more like our progressives here welcoming 3rd world immigration and pushing for the government control and feel good laws.


Their right wing has little to do with our right wing. Just like by European standards Nazi's were national socialists (fascists) which are considered right wing there. Of course some people use that to say that means Nazis are ring wing here which simply doesn't make any sense on the American political map. I suspect our lefties here in the US, will once again, use the difference of definitions to their benefit and put this guy in our lap.

[joffe]

By 'right wing' they mean nationalist, anti-multiculture, anti-muslim. That's what they mean by right-wing in this instance.

There was one shooter. This political gathering/convention was happening on an island in a lake with only one access point. He had free reign to execute anyone on it.

OBVIOUSLY this is Norway, civilized, meek, naive, pathetic little Norway where guns are bad, so no one had the means or the will to protect themselves.

I can also guarantee you the result of this will be a monumental knee-jerk reaction further curtailing that right. It took less than half or even a fourth of this kind of death toll for Great Britain and Australia to utterly maim themselves and ban nearly everything.

Can't wait to get out of this place, it's only going to get worse from now on.

Be glad you live in a country where your rights aren't pissed on, and carry every day.

[ForTehNguyen]

still trying to wrap my mind around how he was able to kill 80+ on the island by himself, the island would be hard to control for a single person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/Anders-Behring-Breivik-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-car-bomb-blasts.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/22/article-2017709-0D1EADCC00000578-539_634x329.jpg

[montanadave]

still trying to wrap my mind around how he was able to kill 80+ on the island by himself, the island would be hard to control for a single person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/Anders-Behring-Breivik-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-car-bomb-blasts.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/22/article-2017709-0D1EADCC00000578-539_634x329.jpg

A man dressed as a police officer, calling in a bunch of panicked and scared shitless teenagers at a summer campout, then executing them. It would have been like shooting fish in a barrel.

I can't even imagine how horrific this must have been. What kind of twisted **** plans the murder of scores of teenagers?

Absolutist ideology, religious or political, regardless of sect, creed, or position on the political spectrum, creates people capable of committing atrocities.

What a tragedy. And, sadly, how trite that sounds in today's world.

[ForTehNguyen]

news is saying he bought 6 tons of fertlizer recently

how long did he get to go around and shoot before he was stopped?

[joffe]

news is saying he bought 6 tons of fertlizer recently

how long did he get to go around and shoot before he was stopped?

Someone estimated he had half an hour. More than enough.. It's not a particularly big island, it also has only one access point, a small ferry (which was not available).

[ForTehNguyen]

ok that makes sense now

[polymorpheous]

So much for their Egalitarian Socialist utopia.
Just goes to show, no matter what political system is in place.
People are people.
And some people have difficulties resisting impulse.

I feel for all of those grieving parents.
:(

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

still trying to wrap my mind around how he was able to kill 80+ on the island by himself, the island would be hard to control for a single person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/Anders-Behring-Breivik-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-car-bomb-blasts.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/22/article-2017709-0D1EADCC00000578-539_634x329.jpg

What a beautiful little island- just looking at it, it almost seems to be out of Peter Pan or a some other Disney movie.

What I really don't get is the why here? It is like two hours away from the boming, right? How did he even know to go there? Don't know what this area is like for Norway, it if it is their 'Hamptons' or North Beach, but kind of brings home the fact that this kind of stuff can happen anywhere.

Island is perfect for his sick plan, litterly like a barrel and no escape.

If he had tried that crap at a Republican political event, the ending would have been much different.

Prayers for the souls and the families affected here.

Anyone have first hand knowledge, no guessing, aboot Norwegian firearms law?

[ForTehNguyen]

they are really restrictive on firearms, talked to some Norwegians on a project a few years ago. They said us Texans talking about guns and conceal carrying them is pretty much unheard of over there.

[joffe]

What a beautiful little island- just looking at it, it almost seems to be out of Peter Pan or a some other Disney movie.

What I really don't get is the why here? It is like two hours away from the boming, right? How did he even know to go there? Don't know what this area is like for Norway, it if it is their 'Hamptons' or North Beach, but kind of brings home the fact that this kind of stuff can happen anywhere.

Island is perfect for his sick plan, litterly like a barrel and no escape.

If he had tried that crap at a Republican political event, the ending would have been much different.

Prayers for the souls and the families affected here.

Anyone have first hand knowledge, no guessing, aboot Norwegian firearms law?

There is nothing special about the island itself -- what was special was the political convention being arranged there. Basically like a summer camp for the youth branch of the Norwegian Labor Party. That's why it was targeted -- very soft, full of people (young people no less) and very political.

Firearms laws in Norway are slightly similar to Illinois, DC, some parts of California.

*Absolutely no carry of any form for private citizens, concealed, open, handgun or long gun, not happening.
*Carrying knives 'in public areas' is also forbidden. The law is not very explicit and it's pretty much left up to individual LEO discretion.
*Handguns are heavily regulated -- require at least 6 months membership in active competition shooting club, a continued active membership and confirmation of this activity to keep your handguns.
*Semi-automatic rifles are restricted to the ones approved for competition shooting (IPSC) and are thus as difficult to get as handguns, on paper. In reality there is very little rifle shooting and you actually need to be an 'approved' handgun shooter to get one, so it's a very small community.
*Semi-automatic rifles approved for hunting, (Mini-14, Vepr, BAR essentially)
*bolt-action rifles,
*lever-action rifles,
*semi-automatic and pump shotguns approved for hunting, (870, 1100, M1/M2, etc etc -- no Saigas)
*and break-action shotguns can be bought by people with a hunting license. This is similar to how the fish & game license works in some US states.

In addition you can also only own one firearm of each 'type' or 'category' - meaning if you have a Remington 700 7.62 you can't go out and buy another 7.62 rifle without a very good 'reason'. You can, however, buy a 5.56 for small game. Same thing with shotguns - if you already have a pump or semi 12-gauge you'll be allowed to buy a 20 or 28 but not another 12 because Big Brother doesn't think you 'need' one.

There is also a total limit of 6 firearms in total per person, again, without a particularly good 'reason' (or 'justification' would be a better translation I guess) for having more.

You're also mandated to own a gun safe approved by the association of insurance companies, and if it is below 300 kilograms (about 600 pounds) it needs to be bolted to the floor or wall. Whenever your firearms are not in use they, or a vital functional part of them, need to be kept in the safe. And, yes, police do inspect that you have this safe and they can do so without any kind of warranty whatsoever. Being a hunter or a gun owner is 'probable cause' enough in this lovely little mountain country.

[LHS]

still trying to wrap my mind around how he was able to kill 80+ on the island by himself, the island would be hard to control for a single person.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/Anders-Behring-Breivik-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-car-bomb-blasts.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/22/article-2017709-0D1EADCC00000578-539_634x329.jpg

News reports indicate he dressed as a police officer and called all the kids over to him. When they got bunched up, he opened fire on them. I can't even imagine what kind of twisted bastard could do that.

[kwelz]

Wait I thought only Muslims were capable of such acts?

[bullseye]

i heard on fox news that the maximum penalty he can receive for this shooting is 21 years. be out by the time he is 50.

[woodandsteel]

I was going to demand a link, but it looks like you are correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment :mad:

ETA: This is in response to what bullseye wrote above.

[joffe]

i heard on fox news that the maximum penalty he can receive for this shooting is 21 years. be out by the time he is 50.

On paper 21 years is max.

However, there is something called 'detention' (http://www.kriminalomsorgen.no/index.php?id=433056) which is something that can be ordered in individual cases by the court's discretion. This is used for especially dangerous/mentally ill prisoners, or in other cases where the police suspect that the prisoner is unlikely to be rehabilitated. This form of criminal detention is in theory indefinite, there is no restriction on it.

[mr_smiles]

Surely you don't mean Muslims Mr. Knuckle.

Nope, he's being described as a christian fundamentalist.

[theblackknight]

What a beautiful little island- just looking at it, it almost seems to be out of Peter Pan or a some other Disney movie.



Get out of my head! I just watched Hook yesterday.

[Moose-Knuckle]

We will be reading about this for a long time to come as the facts are still coming in.

One thing is certain this act was not random, it was premeditated by a dyed in the wool, methodical, stone cold killer.

[variablebinary]

Don't you just love the title of this article.

I cannot wait for MSNBC to get their hands on the story come Monday

http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-begin-questioning-of-christian-fundamentalist-20110723-1hua4.html


Police begin questioning of Christian fundamentalist

Police said they were questioning a Christian fundamentalist on Saturday over twin attacks on a youth camp and the government headquarters that killed 91 people in Norway's deadliest post-war tragedy.
As harrowing testimony emerged from the holiday island where scores of youngsters were mown down by a gunman dressed as a policeman, Norway's premier said the country would emerge stronger from the "cruel act of violence".


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-begin-questioning-of-christian-fundamentalist-20110723-1hua4.html#ixzz1SyFfXCft

[HES]

I am almost certain that this was carried out by some right wing Norwegian extremists.
Apparently so. But honestly I think that this guy would have done what he did regardless of political / religious / social affiliation. He just appears to be a nut job.


I suspect our lefties here in the US, will once again, use the difference of definitions to their benefit and put this guy in our lap.
And in other news, the sun is projected to rise in the east yet again.

[Abraxas]

What I really don't get is the why here? It is like two hours away from the bombing, right? How did he even know to go there? Don't know what this area is like for Norway, it if it is their 'Hamptons' or North Beach, but kind of brings home the fact that this kind of stuff can happen anywhere.A large portion of Norway is like the Rocky's but right up on the coast. Absolutely the most beautiful country I was in, over in Europe. I was the more impressed with Norway than any other European nation I visited, yet if I had not had to I don't think it would have been one that I visited.

There is nothing special about the island itself -- what was special was the political convention being arranged there. Basically like a summer camp for the youth branch of the Norwegian Labor Party. That's why it was targeted -- very soft, full of people (young people no less) and very political.

Firearms laws in Norway are slightly similar to Illinois, DC, some parts of California.

*Absolutely no carry of any form for private citizens, concealed, open, handgun or long gun, not happening.
*Carrying knives 'in public areas' is also forbidden. The law is not very explicit and it's pretty much left up to individual LEO discretion.
*Handguns are heavily regulated -- require at least 6 months membership in active competition shooting club, a continued active membership and confirmation of this activity to keep your handguns.
*Semi-automatic rifles are restricted to the ones approved for competition shooting (IPSC) and are thus as difficult to get as handguns, on paper. In reality there is very little rifle shooting and you actually need to be an 'approved' handgun shooter to get one, so it's a very small community.
*Semi-automatic rifles approved for hunting, (Mini-14, Vepr, BAR essentially)
*bolt-action rifles,
*lever-action rifles,
*semi-automatic and pump shotguns approved for hunting, (870, 1100, M1/M2, etc etc -- no Saigas)
*and break-action shotguns can be bought by people with a hunting license. This is similar to how the fish & game license works in some US states.

In addition you can also only own one firearm of each 'type' or 'category' - meaning if you have a Remington 700 7.62 you can't go out and buy another 7.62 rifle without a very good 'reason'. You can, however, buy a 5.56 for small game. Same thing with shotguns - if you already have a pump or semi 12-gauge you'll be allowed to buy a 20 or 28 but not another 12 because Big Brother doesn't think you 'need' one.

There is also a total limit of 6 firearms in total per person, again, without a particularly good 'reason' (or 'justification' would be a better translation I guess) for having more.

You're also mandated to own a gun safe approved by the association of insurance companies, and if it is below 300 kilograms (about 600 pounds) it needs to be bolted to the floor or wall. Whenever your firearms are not in use they, or a vital functional part of them, need to be kept in the safe. And, yes, police do inspect that you have this safe and they can do so without any kind of warranty whatsoever. Being a hunter or a gun owner is 'probable cause' enough in this lovely little mountain country.
That may be the case for personally owned, but what about the issued weapons. When I spent a month over there the Norwegians I talked too told me that all males are required to serve some time in the military and that they were able to take their issued weapons home, most of which seemed to be HK G3's and MP5's.

[BrianS]

Don't you just love the title of this article.

Yeah, thats great. Which Christian fundamentals involve killing children exactly?


Wait I thought only Muslims were capable of such acts?

No it's just that, since the Koran says to kill infidels, when a Muslim does what the Koran says some of us draw a connection between the ideology and the action. OTOH the Bible says things about people harming children going to a special place in Hell, so when a guy claiming to be a Christian kills a bunch of kids drawing the same connection seems unfair.

[7.62NATO]

.........

[randyman_ar]

You can not find reason in madness or insanity. Doesn't matter..... Muslim, Christian, atheist,agnostic,right wing, left wing or wtf ever. Link him to what you will but he was clearly an extremist in what ever he believed and those people scare the shit out of me.

[Suwannee Tim]

So he is a Christian fundamentalist eh? I say no. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, people who follow his example and his words. Such a person would never, never commit such an act. In fact, we are commanded to love our enemies and love out neighbor as our self. To me that is prima facie evidence he is no Christian, his or anyone else's claim notwithstanding. I doubt the media will see it my way.

[Suwannee Tim]

.......http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/13367967/837/normal/e3c871412898e/gasmaskw.jpg....

What the heck is that? An Mini 14? Sure got a lot of junk hanging off it. He evidently fancies himself some sort of Nordic SEAL.

[Travis B]

What I really don't get is the why here? It is like two hours away from the boming, right? How did he even know to go there? Don't know what this area is like for Norway, it if it is their 'Hamptons' or North Beach, but kind of brings home the fact that this kind of stuff can happen anywhere.

Island is perfect for his sick plan, litterly like a barrel and no escape.



Some reports are saying that the bomb was partially an attack and partially just a distraction. He set off the bomb to get the police focused completely in one area, then goes in dressed as a cop, using his own bomb as a cover story as to why he needed to be on the island. As others have said, he targeted the island because it was a teen meeting of the Labor Party.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-norway-attacks-20110724,0,3750646.story



I'm just glad he wasn't smart enough to disable the ferry; the one way on the island. Without that, just imagine how long it would have taken for police to get on the island.

[variablebinary]

I'm still waiting for motive.

I don't especially buy into the Christian anti-Muslim story, because the guy shot and killed a bunch of white people.

Something's amiss here, but I'm certain there will be Tea Party parallels made soon enough.

And I am a Christian fundamentalist because I choose to swear off all idols, pomp, saints and ceremony. Just because I choose to worship in a stripped down fashion that was originally intended doesn't mean I blow shit up, kill people, am a racist and discriminatory.

[Travis B]

I'm still waiting for motive.



What I can take away from it so far is that he was fed up with the direction that Europe was taking (as signaled by his 1,xxx page book on the subject) and finally wanted to do something about it. The youth of a left-wing party would be a great target for a mentally-deficient right-wing extremist who wanted to take out the opponent. The youth are their future, after all.

[mr_smiles]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384 there's your motive, another dumb ass. I guess he's the European version of a tea party member :rolleyes:

This is why this kind of propaganda is dangerous, to many ****ing idiots in the world who follow every word of it. Probably figured Christians where a victimized minority too...

I realize people worry about the "islamification" of Europe and other parts of the world. But the reality is it's not some kind of plague spreading through out Europe, it's been there since the spread of Islam to Europe in the late 1400's. It's not some new world order Christian prosecution conspiracy theory. It's simply they we live in a media surrounded with mass media controlled by the masses and loonies who blow shit out of proportion. And now over 80 kids and young adults are dead... **** it, just more dead people. People die every day. :lazy2:

ETA:
As far as I can see any one willing to kill for their "GOD" culture is a ****ing idiot. Hilter manipulated an entire country by creating his own branch of Christianity and had the support of a nation using his parties ****ed up dogma similar to shit going on in the country. People need to grow the **** up and respect people for their actions, not some political or religious belief they assume the other holds. We need to go back to a foraging society, agriculture has ****ed us up in the head. We have too much time to become materialistic/self righteous assholes instead of worrying about our fellow mans well being (something a lot of "Good" Christians/Muslims/Jews should learn about) .

[BrianS]

I realize people worry about the "islamification" of Europe and other parts of the world. But the reality is it's not some kind of plague spreading through out Europe, it's been there since the spread of Islam to Europe in the late 1400's.

The spread of Islam into Europe in the 1400s was a massive invasion that destroyed Byzantium and enslaved the Balkans. How does this serve to exonerate Islam as a threat to European freedom/stability exactly? Plus why the need for everyone to use every tragedy to push an agenda these days or prove some other position they don't care for wrong? Why can't this guy have been sick/misguided AND Islam be a threat AND Europe be heading for bad things simultaneously?


We need to go back to a foraging society, agriculture has ****ed us up in the head.

This is a real WTF statement.

[A-Bear680]

The whacko in Norway is beginning to sound like a Timmy McVeigh wanna-be.

[joffe]

A large portion of Norway is like the Rocky's but right up on the coast. Absolutely the most beautiful country I was in, over in Europe. I was the more impressed with Norway than any other European nation I visited, yet if I had not had to I don't think it would have been one that I visited.

That may be the case for personally owned, but what about the issued weapons. When I spent a month over there the Norwegians I talked too told me that all males are required to serve some time in the military and that they were able to take their issued weapons home, most of which seemed to be HK G3's and MP5's.
I believe officers who are employed professionally in the military are allowed to own things like AR-15s and handguns merely by virtue of their profession. Conscripts and others do not bring their issue weapons home, there are no special rules for them.

People who serve in the Home Guard, however (roughly analogous to the NG), keep 'personal' service weapons that they are allowed to bring home, like the G3 or the HK416 depending on what unit they are in. Due to a few shootings by these guys they restricted this - you are now allowed to keep your firearm at home, but not the firing pin. The firing pin is kept in HG storage. :rolleyes:

Even if that were different the weapon would still be a long gun locked down in someone's house - far away from where it is actually needed for an upstanding, decent citizen to protect himself and others from madmen like this guy.

Guys, if you want to know the motive, you can go find his 'manifesto'. It's a very long and drawn-out piece of pseudo-fascist propaganda spewing (1500 pages), but you can skip to the parts that interest you. He's included a journal of the year before the attack, including his planning and everything. I found the journal very interesting. You may also find the section on gear and tactics laughably entertaining. The guy was completely incompetent when it came to firearms and tactics. If his victims weren't a bunch of helpless kids, and instead someone with the means to defend themselves, he may not have killed as much as one person.

[Suwannee Tim]

.....And I am a Christian fundamentalist because I choose to swear off all idols, pomp, saints and ceremony.....

That's as good a definition of Christian Fundamentalism as I have ever heard. That is not the part of Christian Fundamentalism that pisses off the left though. The part that pisses off the left is our unwillingness to worship the Leviathan State.

[mr_smiles]

This is a real WTF statement.
The theory goes that by becoming farmers and moving away from our roots as hunter gathers we pretty much became shitty people, the pro is technologically we had more time to think due less time hunting & gathering so we started developing ideas but with those came bs dogmas that people have killed on another over.

Personally I live by three rules in life.
Physician, Heel Thyself
Ye judge, ye shall be judged
What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others

Pretty all similar principals :D

[Belmont31R]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384 there's your motive, another dumb ass. I guess he's the European version of a tea party member :rolleyes:

This is why this kind of propaganda is dangerous, to many ****ing idiots in the world who follow every word of it. Probably figured Christians where a victimized minority too...

I realize people worry about the "islamification" of Europe and other parts of the world. But the reality is it's not some kind of plague spreading through out Europe, it's been there since the spread of Islam to Europe in the late 1400's. It's not some new world order Christian prosecution conspiracy theory. It's simply they we live in a media surrounded with mass media controlled by the masses and loonies who blow shit out of proportion. And now over 80 kids and young adults are dead... **** it, just more dead people. People die every day. :lazy2:

ETA:
As far as I can see any one willing to kill for their "GOD" culture is a ****ing idiot. Hilter manipulated an entire country by creating his own branch of Christianity and had the support of a nation using his parties ****ed up dogma similar to shit going on in the country. People need to grow the **** up and respect people for their actions, not some political or religious belief they assume the other holds. We need to go back to a foraging society, agriculture has ****ed us up in the head. We have too much time to become materialistic/self righteous assholes instead of worrying about our fellow mans well being (something a lot of "Good" Christians/Muslims/Jews should learn about) .



Theres a big difference between being compassionate to human life and destroying your own home for the sake of others who believe in a completely different value system, legal system, and don't even have an iota of compassion for you.

[montanadave]

Theres a big difference between being compassionate to human life and destroying your own home for the sake of others who believe in a completely different value system, legal system, and don't even have an iota of compassion for you.

As has been demonstrated on numerous threads, you and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on many the substantive issues facing this nation. That said, I feel the terms of the debate are often couched in terms intended to accentuate the differences and purposefully steer the discussion away from common ground. I'm not assigning blame, simply acknowledging that many of the forces at work driving the national discussion are deeply invested in perpetuating that divide.

But I do not disagree with your statement above regarding "a different value system." I would recommend to those interested in that discussion a book entitled "A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles" by Thomas Sowell (http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Visions-Ideological-Political-Struggles/dp/0465002056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311521317&sr=8-1).

I'm not going to publish a book report here. For myself, I found the book very illuminating in pointing out some fundamental and logical discrepancies in my own views on a variety of issues. When one finds himself advocating progressive views on some issues, conservative views on others, and a libertarian stance on still others, it really makes an individual take a hard look at the stability of the foundation those positions are built upon. A thought provoking read.

[Suwannee Tim]

This murderer is some combination of very evil and very insane. Being neither evil nor insane most folks cannot understand his actions. Our culture strongly encourages us to understand while at the same time denying or minimizing the concept of evil. I don't suffer from such because I know I cannot understand and thank God that I cannot understand. I don't even try.

[ForTehNguyen]

quite a bit of info on him here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8655175/Oslo-explosion-live-coverage.html

[GermanSynergy]

So one man, with no military background or formal training can set off a bomb in Oslo and simultaneously massacre 80+ innocents in a different location?

It's possible, but why do I get the feeling there was more than 1 person involved in the planning & execution stages of this heinous atrocity? :mad:

RIP to the fallen.

[SteyrAUG]

So one man, with no military background or formal training can set off a bomb in Oslo and simultaneously massacre 80+ innocents in a different location?

It's possible, but why do I get the feeling there was more than 1 person involved in the planning & execution stages of this heinous atrocity? :mad:

RIP to the fallen.

It's easy to massacre the helpless in huge numbers who have been taught that any kind of fighting is wrong. Rather than try and overpower a single attacker they tried to run away, hide or play dead. Conversely it can be hard to kill 3 cub scouts who have it in their head that they'd rather shove a folding chair up your ass than let you kill them.

[kwelz]

This is the most amazing part to me.


Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg has stated clearly that the terror will be met with more democracy and more openness. Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Støre has made clear that tomorrow's Norway will be fully recognisable. Not only have these phrases been repeated. They have been implemented. The city centre was quickly reopened. Norwegian politicians and the Royal Family have spent the last days meeting with large crowds of people, with limited security, always at a discreet distance.
Even more interesting, perhaps, there hasn't even been a public outcry for more security for the politicians to address. No opposition politicians, not even social media voices, have demanded more public security or pointed to the lack thereof as potential discouragements to the attacks. There has been no visible debate on gun laws or even on the sale of fertilizer, used by the attacker. Neither has there been calls for stricter legal punishment, Norway has 21 years as its maximum prison sentence. The limits to rhetoric in public debates have not been addressed.


In the US we would already have new laws proposed and an increase in Gun Control rhetoric.

[joffe]

True. The words from public figures have been very encouraging so far.

But, then again, words are easy. Making a nice speech is one thing, administering a government in crisis is something else. (I'm sure you know this all too well from dealing with TOTUS for over 2 years already) I'll judge them on their actions (and perhaps more applicable, inactions) in the months to come.

It's also going to be interesting to see how the opposition parties react. The opposition parties tend to find every excuse to disagree with and belittle the current governing party, regardless of their stated, supposed ideology. I hope they will remain principled instead of looking for ways to take pot-shots in this time. If not, I might find myself voting for the Labor Party. (and Satan can look forward to snowball fights in his backyard..)

[Trajan]

Here's one of his videos. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384


He wasn't a fascist either. He just supported European culture/nationalism. At 10:58 it says he is against Multiculturalism, Islam, and Nazism.

I think we will see more of this as Europe is slowly (culturally) destroyed.

He simply snapped. With this ideology, any logical person WOULD NOT kill children of the group you are trying to save.



ETA:
As far as I can see any one willing to kill for their "GOD" culture is a ****ing idiot. Hilter manipulated an entire country by creating his own branch of Christianity and had the support of a nation using his parties ****ed up dogma similar to shit going on in the country. People need to grow the **** up and respect people for their actions, not some political or religious belief they assume the other holds. We need to go back to a foraging society, agriculture has ****ed us up in the head. We have too much time to become materialistic/self righteous assholes instead of worrying about our fellow mans well being (something a lot of "Good" Christians/Muslims/Jews should learn about) .
Hitler supported "positive Christianity" to essentially de-Christianize Europe. Most believe he wanted to restore the German gods as he was a big fan of Wagner.



This is the most amazing part to me.



In the US we would already have new laws proposed and an increase in Gun Control rhetoric.
Amazing. There is hope afterall.

[SteyrAUG]

This is the most amazing part to me.



In the US we would already have new laws proposed and an increase in Gun Control rhetoric.

Before we get too impressed we should remember how significant their gun control laws already are. This incident just proves how useless such regulations are when it comes to preventing tragedies.

If they wanted to impress me the PM would more or less state they have finally realized their gun control efforts have been a complete failure and they are now going to adopt an "armed citizen" approach so that individuals have the means to defend themselves should they choose to.

[joffe]

Here's one of his videos. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384


He wasn't a fascist either. He just supported European culture/nationalism. At 10:58 it says he is against Multiculturalism, Islam, and Nazism.

I think we will see more of this as Europe is slowly (culturally) destroyed.

He simply snapped. With this ideology, any logical person WOULD NOT kill children of the group you are trying to save.

I would encourage you to read his manifest, rather than watch his video. He supported a whole bunch of measures that were distinctly Mussolini/NSDAP in nature, such as state indoctrination, state-'steered' economies and business sectors, etc. Let me quote a tiny part of it, just as an example:


3.147 Quick list suggestions – Future domestic and foreign policy
Obviously, these are my personal views. You can see more suggestions in
another chapter.
-
Militarily prevent Muslim countries/groups from acquiring nuclear weapons or other large
scale WMD’s.
-
Creating a European population strategy, population cap for individual countries or for
Europe/the world as a whole (equivalent to the demographical numbers of 1950). Policies
must be created to govern these policies. Consider re-introducing a ban on abortion, or
implementing other incentives for a sustainable population growth depending on objective
(achieving a birth rate of 2,1 f example).
-
Creation of strict constitutional European Monarchies/Republics (administered democracy).
Mass democracy does not work as has been proven. The system will include cultural
conservative principles, defence, immigration policies which can’t be altered, liberal zones
etc.).
-
Development of alternative energy sources, to reduce dependence on oil
-
Strengthen the Church’s influence concerning cultural issues
-
Introduce policies which strengthen the nuclear family (deconstruct Western European
matriarchy structures).
-
Introduce the death penalty (3 strike rule)
-
Drug addicts should be sent to strict “reformation camps”. Hard drug abuse must not be
tolerated (however, marijuana may be permitted in liberal zones). The essence in fighting
addictions is to take the victim away from his negative environment and giving him/her a
meaningful goal/task in life (a majority of these individuals needs protection against
themselves for a certain period). The current government policy does the exact opposite.
Instead of trying to solve the root causes they act as facilitators for drug abuse by
providing the addicts with government funded drugs. At the moment, Norway is one of the
most liberal countries in regards to catering for drug addicts. At the same time Norway has
the largest proportion of drug addicts (heroin addicts) in Europe.
-
Re-education strategy for Marxists
-
A committee should be created in each country that will research, investigate and map all
compromised institutions and groups (previously under the influence of cultural
Marxist/multiculturalist policies and ideas).
-
Educational courses (f example 6 month courses) should be created which highlights “un-
falsified” history and cultural conservative topics and presented to compromised groups.
The course will be concluded with an exam in which each individual will need to pass.
-
A similar exam may be held throughout Europe for all people in non-compromised groups
(3 month course instead of 6).
-
Consider new civilisational goals – from excessive consumerism where the acquisition of
wealth is the driving force in our lives to instead, focus all our resources to better ourselves
and the rest of our citizens scientifically and technologically/R&D. 20% of national GDP
should be allocated to this purpose.

Sure, some of what he says makes sense. A lot of it is completely unacceptable regardless of your views on Islam.

[Safetyhit]

Wait I thought only Muslims were capable of such acts?

No, not always. Just 95% of the time.

[kwelz]

Very true Steyr. But it isn't just the Gun control. That fact that they seem to be reacting in a rational way at all is amazing. And something this country isn't capable of anymore it seems.

[kwelz]

Wow his manifesto is all over the place and scary as hell. Essentially he wants a church run government with no play for anything that deviates from his version of the norm.

[Travis B]

Wow his manifesto is all over the place and scary as hell. Essentially he wants a church run government with no play for anything that deviates from his version of the norm.

Someone tried to convince me that him being labeled Christian was just so the news would be PC. This is obviously not the case.

[GermanSynergy]

Very true Steyr. But it isn't just the Gun control. That fact that they seem to be reacting in a rational way at all is amazing. And something this country isn't capable of anymore it seems.

Agreed. Just look at the Tucson shootings a few months ago.

[SteyrAUG]

Wow his manifesto is all over the place and scary as hell. Essentially he wants a church run government with no play for anything that deviates from his version of the norm.

You were expecting what from a person who methodically planned the mass murder of kids?

Anytime something like this happens I don't go searching for logical motivations. It is usually the same old shit.

A. Some form of religious extremism.
B. Some form of racial hatred.
C. Some exactment of revenge on society by one who feels abandoned/excluded by that society.

The fact that they sometimes use complete sentences makes us believe that they must be a logical and coherent human being who must have had some kind of reason or motivation for what they did and we really shouldn't do that.

[ThirdWatcher]

This thug reminds me of that nut-job that shot the congresswoman, judge, et. al. in Arizona. I gave up trying to figure out what motivates these wackos a long time ago.

IIRC, in our country more than 50% of all active shooter incidents are stopped by someone (armed citizen or LEO) that is present when the shooting starts. Thank God our forefathers had the wisdom to codify our rights (in this case the Second Amendment) in the Bill of Rights.

[randolph]

Two things I heard this morning on the news.
a lot of his manifesto is cut and paste'd from Ted Kaczynski (the unabomber) manifesto.

also, the most he could be sentenced to is 21 years in prison.

[Redmanfms]

The theory goes that by becoming farmers and moving away from our roots as hunter gathers we pretty much became shitty people, the pro is technologically we had more time to think due less time hunting & gathering so we started developing ideas but with those came bs dogmas that people have killed on another over.

Personally I live by three rules in life.
Physician, Heel Thyself
Ye judge, ye shall be judged
What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others

Pretty all similar principals :D

And the theory is pure, unmitigated bullshit, sorry. Even if you take away the "bs dogmas" people will still regularly kill each other over resources. If anything, war over resources will become all the more common because it is agriculture that has made resource scarcity less of an issue to humanity.

Hunter-gatherer societies were perhaps even more tribal and violent, certainly based on the anthropological evidence they were. You are a victim of a dogmatic belief that has become common and accepted in much of academia in direct contravention of scientific fact, that of the "noble savage." It's a myth. Furthermore, religion predates civilization.


Your list of personal rules seems cogent enough though.

[Artos]

also, the most he could be sentenced to is 21 years in prison.

i read this too and left me a little slack jawed & assumed it was a typo...surely this can't be accurate.

what sort of value do they place on human lives if 21yrs max is a current law for one murder, much less than what this monster did??

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Lot of explanations on the 21 year thing. Short story is that he can be continually held under some kind of parole system for real nut jobs.

How long will he last if they release him? He shot a bunch of teenagers probably with 50ish year old parents. In twenty years they'll all be in their 70s and 80s- with nothing to loose. Just saying.

Here's hoping they have the Muslim Brotherhood in Norwegian prisons too.

[ALCOAR]

//////

[ForTehNguyen]

Why didn't you come earlier?, Utoeya survivors asked police | Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/25/us-norway-police-response-idUSTRE76O4ZC20110725

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Not only was this dude crazy as hell, but apparently the shortbus rider was also the world's biggest mall ninja ever.


Look at this absolute Call of Duty Superstar....what a f**king tool.

That guy will turn you ghey if you look at it to long so be warned...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/SANY1136-1.jpg

Did he swim to the island?

[ForTehNguyen]

I still would like to specifically know what weapons he used. Havent been able to find it anywhere. Just know he had some pistols, a shotgun, and a rifle

[Artos]

I still would like to specifically know what weapons he used. Havent been able to find it anywhere. Just know he had some pistols, a shotgun, and a rifle

copy...not that it matters but still curious for some reason.

[Travis B]

I still would like to specifically know what weapons he used. Havent been able to find it anywhere. Just know he had some pistols, a shotgun, and a rifle

Looks like a mini-14.

And his Skin shirt is great. I have a pair of their leggings and they work great for late fall runs.

[VooDoo6Actual]

I still would like to specifically know what weapons he used. Havent been able to find it anywhere. Just know he had some pistols, a shotgun, and a rifle

caveat: Information not verified for veracity yet.

Info source here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Arming in Norway originally, Breivik intended to try to obtain weapons in Berlin or Serbia if his mission in Prague failed. The Czech disappointment though led him to get his weapons through legal channels.[18] He decided to obtain a semi-automatic rifle and a Glock pistol legally in Norway, noting that he had a "clean criminal record, hunting license, and a pump action shotgun Benelli Nova already for seven years", and thus obtaining the guns legally should not be a problem.[13]

Upon returning to Norway, Breivik obtained a legal permit for a Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic carbine, ostensibly for the purpose of hunting deer. He bought it in autumn 2010 for €1,400. Getting a permit for the pistol proved more difficult, as he had to demonstrate regular attendance at a sport shooting club.[16] He also bought 10 30-round magazines from a US supplier. In November, December and January he went through 15 training sessions at the Oslo Pistol Club, and by mid-January his application to purchase a Glock pistol was approved.[19][20]

In March 2011 Breivik carried out an online[21] purchase of chemicals for manufacture of the explosives. He bought the chemicals from a Polish retailer based in Wrocław. This has led to Breivik being put on the watch list of the Norwegian intelligence, which however did not act because they did not believe it was relevant.[22]

Following his encounter with prostitutes in Prague, Breivik had decided to save €2,000 for obtaining a "luxury prostitute" before the attacks, which was supposed to help him with morale and motivation. He had also planned a last martyr service in Frogner Church before the attack.[16]

According to his manifesto, Breivik ordered the fertiliser for making explosives on April 27.[23] He started making the explosives in early May, noting how ironic it was that he lived near the largest army compound in the country, and that "borrowing" explosives from the army would "save him a lot of trouble". On 13 June 2011, he made the first experimental explosion at an unspecified desolate location. On July 15 he rented a car; on July 18 he rigged a car with explosives. His last note from July 22stated that he had enough material for at least 20 explosions


HTH...

[BrianS]

We have to pass some legislation to prevent an attack like this. How about a law requiring the government gets to read everyone's diary?

[GermanSynergy]

We have to pass some legislation to prevent an attack like this. How about a law requiring the government gets to read everyone's diary?

Don't give them any ideas.....

[Belmont31R]

I think I have posted before maybe 1-2 years ago Muslims in Europe would lead to another crusade/holocaust type situation.



I first went to Europe when I was 13 (1997 I think it was), and noticed an entire apartment complex in a high end area with was full of muslims.


I don't think the open borders policy is going to last, and I think there will be a rebound effort amongst the nationalists in Europe. Ive read of and experiened FIRST HAND problems with them there. Tons of rapes in the big cities, other crime explosions, wanting their own law system, attacks like London, Spain, and just general criminal activity. Ive been to Europe twice on my own and from 2004-2007 in the Army. Been to most Western countries, a few Eastern, and I really think its just a boiling pressure pot.


Also don't forget these Europeans have had war in one place or another almost all of the time for the last thousand + years. The last 50 years has been one of the most peaceful periods aside from the Balkaans areas. Western Europe is ripe for some action going back a thousand years of history. Hitler was able to put the scapegoat on the jews, gays, travelers, ect. All someone needs to do is get the people riled up agains the 3rd worlders who are taking Europe over, and you'll have another cleansing (their words not mine). Im just saying I expect some hostilities over the muslims in Europe within my life time, and think it could get ugly. WW2 bad? Probably not but but when Europeans gets the tick they get it pretty damn good.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

We have to pass some legislation to prevent an attack like this. How about a law requiring the government gets to read everyone's diary?

I agree. He went through all the legal hoops and we still couldn't find out what his motivations were. Where's big brother when you need him?

[Travis B]

We have to pass some legislation to prevent an attack like this. How about a law requiring the government gets to read everyone's diary?

You forgot your [Sarcasm] tags.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

You forgot your [Sarcasm] tags.

I think, at least I hope, that on a site like this we can say things like that without noting the intended sarcasm.

[Travis B]

I think, at least I hope, that on a site like this we can say things like that without noting the intended sarcasm.

I guarantee someone missed it.

[Abraxas]

I think I have posted before maybe 1-2 years ago Muslims in Europe would lead to another crusade/holocaust type situation.



I first went to Europe when I was 13 (1997 I think it was), and noticed an entire apartment complex in a high end area with was full of muslims.


I don't think the open borders policy is going to last, and I think there will be a rebound effort amongst the nationalists in Europe. Ive read of and experiened FIRST HAND problems with them there. Tons of rapes in the big cities, other crime explosions, wanting their own law system, attacks like London, Spain, and just general criminal activity. Ive been to Europe twice on my own and from 2004-2007 in the Army. Been to most Western countries, a few Eastern, and I really think its just a boiling pressure pot.


Also don't forget these Europeans have had war in one place or another almost all of the time for the last thousand + years. The last 50 years has been one of the most peaceful periods aside from the Balkaans areas. Western Europe is ripe for some action going back a thousand years of history. Hitler was able to put the scapegoat on the jews, gays, travelers, ect. All someone needs to do is get the people riled up agains the 3rd worlders who are taking Europe over, and you'll have another cleansing (their words not mine). Im just saying I expect some hostilities over the muslims in Europe within my life time, and think it could get ugly. WW2 bad? Probably not but but when Europeans gets the tick they get it pretty damn good.
This pretty closely mirrors my own experiences and thoughts.

[The_War_Wagon]

Nazi sympathizers. Do NOT confuse them with "Christians."

http://bigjournalism.com/files/2011/07/Nazi_Stabs_Bible.jpg

[Honu]

Nazi sympathizers. Do NOT confuse them with "Christians."

http://bigjournalism.com/files/2011/07/Nazi_Stabs_Bible.jpg

ditto that :)

funny that the only mention of him being Christian was from a cop in a AP report ?
he was not a Christian but the left is running with the fact he is ?

sadly nuts like him or a few others act out on their twisted thoughts
yet muslims act out daily all over the world killing their own and others in the process and its in their teaching to do so etc.. and most admit yeah its part of our religion and so on ???
yet they think Christians are the problem ? and yet not one of these nuts was a Christian ?

[Moose-Knuckle]

This photograph has obviously been photo shopped, very poorly I may ad.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/AndersBehringBreivik.jpg

[woodandsteel]

Apparently the police in Norway don't normally carry firearms? At least , not on their person?


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065

Unsettling Wariness in Norway, Where Police Are Rarely Armed


By law, Norwegian police officers must have authorization from their chief to gain access to a firearm, but they have rarely needed to ask, until recently


Currently, only beat police officers in patrol cars have immediate access to weapons. By law, however, they have to remain unloaded and locked in a box in the car unless authorization is given.

[kwelz]

funny that the only mention of him being Christian was from a cop in a AP report ?
he was not a Christian but the left is running with the fact he is ?

sadly nuts like him or a few others act out on their twisted thoughts
yet muslims act out daily all over the world killing their own and others in the process and its in their teaching to do so etc.. and most admit yeah its part of our religion and so on ???
yet they think Christians are the problem ? and yet not one of these nuts was a Christian ?

His Manifesto seems to make his religious views very clear. All religion can be used to "justify" acts like this.

[joffe]

This photograph has obviously been photo shopped, very poorly I may ad.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/AndersBehringBreivik.jpg

What do you mean? Aside from removing the background it isn't photoshopped. He's really got a tri-rail on that Mini and ALL THAT CRAP on it. One heck of a mall ninja, this guy.

He was a Christian, but he didn't use his religion as motivation for what he did.

And yes, woodandsteel, police do not carry firearms here.

[Travis B]

This photograph has obviously been photo shopped, very poorly I may ad.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/AndersBehringBreivik.jpg

I'm sure TOS is having a "critique my set up" discussion on this one.

[variablebinary]

What's really funny is MSNBC and CNN talking about the dangers of the extreme right and Christian fundamentalism

They love to show the photo of Mcvaigh as an illustration. Mind you that was 16 years ago, and Mcvaigh was neither on the far right, or a Christian fundamentalist.

However, almost every day a Muslim is either blowing themselves up or other people or both, but heaven forbid you talk about islamic terror.

[Moose-Knuckle]

What do you mean?

I mean all that shit hanging off that POS Mini was photo shopped on the rifle. The head appears to be as well on another body. That Norway patch doesn't belong either.

Something smells rotten in the state of Norway. . .

[kwelz]

I mean all that shit hanging off that POS Mini was photo shopped on the rifle. The head appears to be as well on another body. That Norway patch doesn't belong either.

Something smells rotten in the state of Norway. . .

The only thing edited on the photo is the background. And that may or may not have been the media. It is his head. And that crap really is on the rifle.

[Belmont31R]

What's really funny is MSNBC and CNN talking about the dangers of the extreme right and Christian fundamentalism

They love to show the photo of Mcvaigh as an illustration. Mind you that was 16 years ago, and Mcvaigh was neither on the far right, or a Christian fundamentalist.

However, almost every day a Muslim is either blowing themselves up or other people or both, but heaven forbid you talk about islamic terror.


Thats what I said earlier. Its because in European politics far right is far different than our far right.


In American politics far left is extreme communism, and the extreme far left is anarachy. So you go from no government to total government in one axis.

European political models are X and Y axis with right being nationalists/traditionalists and left being more communists but both right and left still believe in social programs and big government. The Nazis hated communists and are considered right in European politics while commies are leftists but on the American scale they are next to each other and considered left wing here unless you're a liberal, want to malign the right, and apply the european scale to the American scale in an effort to bash the right.

Theres no way you can put nazis next to conservatives and libertarians.

[variablebinary]

Thats what I said earlier. Its because in European politics far right is far different than our far right.


In American politics far left is extreme communism, and the extreme far left is anarachy. So you go from no government to total government in one axis.

European political models are X and Y axis with right being nationalists/traditionalists and left being more communists but both right and left still believe in social programs and big government. The Nazis hated communists and are considered right in European politics while commies are leftists but on the American scale they are next to each other and considered left wing here unless you're a liberal, want to malign the right, and apply the european scale to the American scale in an effort to bash the right.

Theres no way you can put nazis next to conservatives and libertarians.

I tend to think American far right is Anarchy with a hint of government here and there; not so far left is socialist, while far lefty scum bag MSNBC lover is pure heathen transvestite communist.

[Belmont31R]

I tend to think American far right is Anarchy with a hint of government here and there; not so far left is socialist, while far lefty scum bag MSNBC lover is pure heathen transvestite communist.




Socialism is deeply entrenched into the European pscyche both left and right. Not so much here where far right is limited government with self preservation and independence. There is no major political party there that I know of who adheres to limited government ala American right. Both right and left there are into big government social programs. Just the right there are traditionalists like supporting hunting, shooting sports, nationalism, ect. The left is open borders green this and that.


Just like there has not been a European country in the last 100 years, at minimum, that has done anything like us in regards to a bill of rights or limited government. They are ALL into big government, taxes, control, socialism, ect.


The easiest way to break it down is to say the left/right there is two sides of the same coin while the LEFT here is one coin and the RIGHT here is a whole different coin. Hence my thread about the right and left here being completely incompatible nowadays when they used to be on the same coin. Lefties here used to have pride in America and opposed communists. Now the left are communists but the right is still low taxes and limited government (for the most part).


An American righty (libertarian) would be laughed out of any political discussion there. Ive had my fair share of debates with Europeans as back as 2003 discussing our invasion of Iraq and our traditional American approach and thoughts to life/liberty is completely lost on them there. Not that my debates were not productive but just liberty/limited government/rights are completely lost on them.

[tb-av]

Aside from removing the background it isn't photoshopped.

I agree, I think it just looks odd because of the background removal.

the catch lights look aligned correctly as well with the flash on his forearm and hands.

The patch is probably something he made and stuck on.

[Irish]

I am not condoning or endorsing anything this man has done. However, since this is the "Norway incident" thread here on M4C I thought I'd share this article with the members here.

Conquest through rape. (http://bigpeace.com/nmay/2011/07/22/conquest-through-rape-in-europe-latest-victim-raped-on-steps-of-parliament/)

As reported previously, all the stranger rapes in Oslo over the past five years — when the perpetrators could be identified — were committed by Muslim immigrants, and almost all of the victims were indigenous Norwegians. This is an example of “conquest through rape”, which is has been a feature of the Islamic hijra all over the world ever since the 7th century.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I am not condoning or endorsing anything this man has done. However, since this is the "Norway incident" thread here on M4C I thought I'd share this article with the members here.

Conquest through rape. (http://bigpeace.com/nmay/2011/07/22/conquest-through-rape-in-europe-latest-victim-raped-on-steps-of-parliament/)

This is the shit that gets me, if the douche had a problem with the rise of Islam. . .HE SHOT THE WRONG PEOPLE.

Kind of like OKC, killing a bunch of office workers and kids at a day care really didn't make an impact when you have it out for AGUS and POTUS. :rolleyes:

[Irish]

This is the shit that gets me, if the douche had a problem with the rise of Islam. . .HE SHOT THE WRONG PEOPLE.
I had a good discussion about that last night with a buddy of mine. Although mosque and island are 6 letter words I'm not sure how he got the 2 confused.

[BrianS]

He was targeting the children of the political party he viewed as responsible for the policies allowing muslim immigration into Norway.

[armakraut]

I guess he figured that the quickest way to a muslims heart was to first run his sword through the communist standing in the way.

[Moose-Knuckle]

He was targeting the children of the political party he viewed as responsible for the policies allowing muslim immigration into Norway.

Epic fail, killing the spectators to an event does not change the outcome of said event.

[BrianS]

Epic fail, killing the spectators to an event does not change the outcome of said event.

Terrorists almost never target people directly involved in whatever issue they are killing for. Why expect this one to be different?

[Moose-Knuckle]

Terrorists almost never target people directly involved in whatever issue they are killing for. Why expect this one to be different?

AQ hates the West, that is exaclty who they have preyed upon over the years.

What this guy did equates to a white guy here in the states killing a bunch of white teens at a Democrat party summer camp due to mass illegal immigration from Mexico.

[BrianS]

What this guy did equates to a white guy here in the states killing a bunch of white teens at a Democrat party summer camp due to mass illegal immigration from Mexico.

I think you are oversimplifying his ideology. The killer said he viewed the leftists controlling his government, and their policies, as the major threat. He attacked a camp filled with their children. Makes perfect sense to me as a terrorist target. They attack innocents to scare the shit out of people and try to influence policy.

[armakraut]

Like some foiled domestic terror plots that never got off the ground and the 9/11 attack, professionally orchestrated attacks are always designed to illicit a response. He probably aimed to get the socialist government to crack down on gun owners, free speech, assembly, organizations, etc to provoke even more animosity and violence. In the same way that UBL banked on 9/11 forcing us to getting even more entrenched in the middle east.

[QuietShootr]

Socialism is deeply entrenched into the European pscyche both left and right. Not so much here where far right is limited government with self preservation and independence. There is no major political party there that I know of who adheres to limited government ala American right. Both right and left there are into big government social programs. Just the right there are traditionalists like supporting hunting, shooting sports, nationalism, ect. The left is open borders green this and that.


Just like there has not been a European country in the last 100 years, at minimum, that has done anything like us in regards to a bill of rights or limited government. They are ALL into big government, taxes, control, socialism, ect.


The easiest way to break it down is to say the left/right there is two sides of the same coin while the LEFT here is one coin and the RIGHT here is a whole different coin. Hence my thread about the right and left here being completely incompatible nowadays when they used to be on the same coin. Lefties here used to have pride in America and opposed communists. Now the left are communists but the right is still low taxes and limited government (for the most part).


An American righty (libertarian) would be laughed out of any political discussion there. Ive had my fair share of debates with Europeans as back as 2003 discussing our invasion of Iraq and our traditional American approach and thoughts to life/liberty is completely lost on them there. Not that my debates were not productive but just liberty/limited government/rights are completely lost on them.

This is accurate. I was introduced to some Germans that were friends of a family member - he introduced them as "you'll like these guys, they're pretty right-wing."

Maybe in Germany they are, but here they were just pinkos that talked funny. They had NO concept of individual freedom or liberty, and trying to explain it to them was like trying to teach a chimp to write Chinese.

[QuietShootr]

Before anyone gets confused on the difference between politics there and here....


Basically both right and left there are socialists....but the right wing is more nationalistic. IE they don't want a ton of immigration of outsiders and are traditionalists. A conservative European usually means they just want to preserve their way of life and tradition. Doesn't mean they are like American conservatives which has to do with limited government and spending. A European conservative usually still supports the socialist state welfare programs.


The left there is more like our progressives here welcoming 3rd world immigration and pushing for the government control and feel good laws.


Their right wing has little to do with our right wing. Just like by European standards Nazi's were national socialists (fascists) which are considered right wing there. Of course some people use that to say that means Nazis are ring wing here which simply doesn't make any sense on the American political map. I suspect our lefties here in the US, will once again, use the difference of definitions to their benefit and put this guy in our lap.

This.

[LHS]

This didn't take long. That twit McCarthy is blaming 'lax' US gun laws for the massacre, since the shooter used 30-round mags bought from the US:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43933511/ns/politics-more_politics/



"There should be a lot of shame," Rep. Carolyn McCarthy told Politico. "We’re sending a death warrant to other parts of the world."

The Democrat commented after issuing a statement saying a 1,500-page manifesto by Anders Behring Breivik detailed how he used lax U.S. gun laws to help arm himself before killing 76 people in a gun and bomb attack in Norway.

[Travis B]

This didn't take long. That twit McCarthy is blaming 'lax' US gun laws for the massacre, since the shooter used 30-round mags bought from the US:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43933511/ns/politics-more_politics/

Are there not export laws restricting that?

[LHS]

Are there not export laws restricting that?

The article quotes the shooter's diary:


"10 x 30 round magazines - .223 cal at 34 USD per mag. Had to buy through a smaller US supplier (who again ordered from other suppliers) as most suppliers have export limitations… Total cost: 550 USD."

Not sure if exporting mags is legal or not, but it sounds like some wouldn't do it.

[Travis B]

The article quotes the shooter's diary:



Not sure if exporting mags is legal or not, but it sounds like some wouldn't do it.

Listed on Gun Parts Corp, Norway is on a restricted list who the .gov does not allow exportation of magazines, among other things. They don't cite their source, however.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/RestrictedCountries.aspx

[Magic_Salad0892]

In the same way that UBL banked on 9/11 forcing us to getting even more entrenched in the middle east.

Know what the dumbest part of that plan was?...

It worked.