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rob_s
10-27-07, 09:35
Lots of chatter about them on TOS. Made to work with the Ceiner kit and all uppers that utilize this kit (Atchisson, Spike's, KKF, etc.). There's two versions, the Full Body Magazines - 27 Round for $35 MSRP (http://www.blackdogmachinellc.net/) and the First Generation Magazines 30 round (http://www.blackdogmachinellc.net/?First_Generation_Magazines).

I'm about to order a Spike's .22 upper and I'm going to want to get 10 mags +/- for this thing. My initial take is to order 8 of the first gen from Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24572&title=AR-15+30-ROUND+MAGAZINE+FOR+CIENER+.22+LR+CONVERSION) for $20/ea and two of the Full Body from Spike's Tactical (http://spikestactical.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=126) for $30. Mostly just to save the $80.

Any real reason to stick with the newer Full Body mags? Any benefit over the First Gen other than looks and similar feel/use in mag pouches?

I'm thinking MAYBE I'll get 4 of the Full Bodies to use for cheap training (3 in the chest rig, one in the gun) and the rest the First Gen for plinking with the boy at the range.

What's everyone's experience with these things? Anything I need to know before ordering?

lgh
10-27-07, 12:05
With the 223 BCG in, the mag would not lock into the mag well of 2 different 6920's but did lock in when I put in a ceiner conversion BCG. It locked into a RRA magwell with the 223 BCG in place. I haven't used the mag yet to see how it runs. I guess the message is don't rush to judge the mag without the conversion.

Larry

C4IGrant
10-27-07, 16:08
Lots of chatter about them on TOS. Made to work with the Ceiner kit and all uppers that utilize this kit (Atchisson, Spike's, KKF, etc.). There's two versions, the Full Body Magazines - 27 Round for $35 MSRP (http://www.blackdogmachinellc.net/) and the First Generation Magazines 30 round[/rul].

I'm about to order a Spike's .22 upper and I'm going to want to get 10 mags +/- for this thing. My initial take is to order 8 of the first gen from [url=http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24572&title=AR-15+30-ROUND+MAGAZINE+FOR+CIENER+.22+LR+CONVERSION]Brownells (http://www.blackdogmachinellc.net/?First_Generation_Magazines) for $20/ea and two of the Full Body from Spike's Tactical (http://spikestactical.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=126) for $30. Mostly just to save the $80.

Any real reason to stick with the newer Full Body mags? Any benefit over the First Gen other than looks and similar feel/use in mag pouches?

I'm thinking MAYBE I'll get 4 of the Full Bodies to use for cheap training (3 in the chest rig, one in the gun) and the rest the First Gen for plinking with the boy at the range.

What's everyone's experience with these things? Anything I need to know before ordering?


We ordered some of the Spikes barrels and their custom Ciener conversions. We also got a bunch of the new BD full mags. Initially we could not get the rounds to chamber as the feed ramp on the Ciener and the lip on the Spikes barrel were off and too steep. The rounds nose dived into the top of the barrel (no good).
So we hand filed the two feed ramps so that they came together better. Next we polished the feed ramps and the chamber.
The Ciener conversion is also VERY rough and gritty so we polished the rails that the bolt rides on (top and bottom).

We went back out and test fired the weapon (have about 300rds through it supressed) and it runs great!

If interested, we can build you an upper and sell you the mags. We will make sure everything is running before it leaves our shop. ;)




C4


My .22 dedicated AR.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case.jpg

lgh
10-27-07, 16:45
Using a standard Ciener conversion in a 6920, Rem green box would not feed with more than 10 rounds in the mag. That reflects what others have reported - Rem green doesn't run well in Spike's (although it runs fine with Ciener 10 round mags). I tested a loaded mag or two of a few other brands I had lying around. Federal Classic and Game Shok, CCI Velocitor and Stinger, and Thunderbolt ran fine. A mag loader would be real nice.

Larry

Submariner
10-27-07, 17:09
Has anyone tried ordering the full size mags through Brownell's as a special order? I used to get MagPul stuff that wasn't in the catalog that way.

rob_s
10-27-07, 17:26
I was kind of hoping Brownells would pick up the "full" mags as well.

I found a link on TOS for somebody or other selling the "fullsize" for $27.50/ea shipped if you buy 10. Maybe I'll just do that.

Grant, you have a PM.

Submariner
10-27-07, 17:38
I found a link on TOS for somebody or other selling the "fullsize" for $27.50/ea shipped if you buy 10. Maybe I'll just do that.

Good idea. Then I can sell my 10 pre-ban Ceiners to a New York stock broker and retire.:D

utarch00
10-27-07, 20:54
Grant

Do you have a price list or price range for your .22 uppers.

Heavy Metal
10-27-07, 21:31
We ordered some of the Spikes barrels and their custom Ciener conversions. We also got a bunch of the new BD full mags. Initially we could not get the rounds to chamber as the feed ramp on the Ciener and the lip on the Spikes barrel were off and too steep. The rounds nose dived into the top of the barrel (no good).
So we hand filed the two feed ramps so that they came together better. Next we polished the feed ramps and the chamber.
The Ciener conversion is also VERY rough and gritty so we polished the rails that the bolt rides on (top and bottom).

We went back out and test fired the weapon (have about 300rds through it supressed) and it runs great!

If interested, we can build you an upper and sell you the mags. We will make sure everything is running before it leaves our shop. ;)




C4


My .22 dedicated AR.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case.jpg

Dammnit Grant! Why do you keep selling stuff I just have to buy? I will call you next week.

Logic
10-28-07, 03:11
Grant,

How many inches is the barrel on that upper? Also, what would it cost for an upper with the conversion kit less the handguard?

Nathan_Bell
10-28-07, 10:47
We ordered some of the Spikes barrels and their custom Ciener conversions. We also got a bunch of the new BD full mags. Initially we could not get the rounds to chamber as the feed ramp on the Ciener and the lip on the Spikes barrel were off and too steep. The rounds nose dived into the top of the barrel (no good).
So we hand filed the two feed ramps so that they came together better. Next we polished the feed ramps and the chamber.
The Ciener conversion is also VERY rough and gritty so we polished the rails that the bolt rides on (top and bottom).

We went back out and test fired the weapon (have about 300rds through it supressed) and it runs great!

If interested, we can build you an upper and sell you the mags. We will make sure everything is running before it leaves our shop. ;)




C4


My .22 dedicated AR.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case2.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22%20AR%20in%20case.jpg



Handled, briefly, Grant's 22 build. Nice looking little blaster, funny looking without the can on it though :cool:

SuicideHz
10-28-07, 12:09
I was looking for some of these full size mags too. I have (I believe) an Olympic .22 kit. Does anyone know if that will or will not work with these new mags?

.22 is filthy as hell.

I'm halfway tempted to sell the kit just because it is so filthy.

Mike729
10-28-07, 12:58
The 1st gens may be better for the kid dexterity-wise, as in easier to handle, do reloads, etc. for him....Just a thought...

C4IGrant
10-28-07, 19:28
Grant

Do you have a price list or price range for your .22 uppers.

It really depends on which components you select.



C4

C4IGrant
10-28-07, 19:30
Grant,

How many inches is the barrel on that upper? Also, what would it cost for an upper with the conversion kit less the handguard?


Barrel is 5.5" and we also have them 16" length. Do you want just a standard A3 receiver and A2 FS?


C4

MX5
10-30-07, 07:56
I obtained 8 Black Dog full-sized mags and every one of them runs fine with a wide variety of ammo. I chose smoke colored as they're somewhat dark and still allow verification of rounds left inside. Most will accept 27 rds. and all will allow 25. This might change in time. The only PITT (Pain In The Thumbs) is the tiny rds. in small feed lips after several mags - no known mag loaders at this time.

lgh
10-30-07, 08:33
And would it run with the cheap ammo like Rem Green, Blazer, bulk Federal, Thunderbolt, etc.?

Larry

Harv
10-30-07, 08:55
I went with the full size mags because I bought the .22 for training/practice. I wanted to mags to fit in all my gear/pouches and be as close to the real mags as possible. The full size mags fit in my Eagle FBpouches which was also a requirement for me.

They also take Gen 1 Magpuls which is standard for me.

The skinny mags held no advantage to me.

I also went with the Black mags vs the clear as I figured the Black plastic tends to hold up better then the clear as the formulation in the plastics is normally different.

The full size mags can also be dissasembled for cleaning/repairs,etc. Not sure how the skinny mags are.

Just my experience.

rmecapn
10-30-07, 16:13
Grant, I already have an existing Ceiner kit. Can you put together an upper that would work with the existing kit and not the modified kit?

Karl

Iraq Ninja
10-31-07, 01:27
I had bad luck with the 1st Gens. The newer full bodied mags seem to be stronger.

1st Gen after 500 rounds:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Gun%20stuff/****edBDM.jpg

Logic
10-31-07, 04:45
Barrel is 5.5" and we also have them 16" length. Do you want just a standard A3 receiver and A2 FS?


C4

I already have an extra carbine handguard. So I was looking at an A3 receiver and charging handle, modified kit, and correct barrel with no FS but threaded. Would a 4 inch barrel work and function properly with standard vel ammo?

MX5
10-31-07, 08:01
And would it run with the cheap ammo like Rem Green, Blazer, bulk Federal, Thunderbolt, etc.?

Larry

Ciener Conversion, full size Black Dog mags, Gen I MagPuls, DPMS LoPro upper (for the intended purpose, there's no point in retaining the forward assist & ejection port cover), 20" Colt 1-12 twist M16 bbl shortened to 8.5", EOTech, 7" YHM F/F rail, AA VFG, Viking Tactics light mount & Surefire 6V. All refinished in Coyote Tan. A dedicated bbl might be more accurate - I won't argue either way as I've not compared on paper, but I just happened to have a 20" Colt bbl collecting dust. The first 2 ARs this conversion was dropped-into are zeroed at 50yds. with 5.56. At 50 yds. with .22LR they were about 6" - 8" low fired offhand. At 150 yds. with the dot on top of a 16" piece of steel, offhand, it could be rung most of the time - maybe luck, maybe slop or a bit of both. With the dedicated upper there's the advantage of sight zero for .22LR ammo. It's plenty accurate for CQB - 50 yds. regardless. Also, bbl length has no effect on function, because it's blowback operation.

Obtained the Ciener Conversion, cleaned & lubed it, then hand cycled it 500X, cleaned & lubed again then ran it in 2 different carbines for several hundred rds. apiece without cleaning. At that point the decision was made for a dedicated upper for an SBR. Numerous Blazer, Federal Value Pack, American Eagle, Rem Golden Bullets, Rem Thunderbolts, WW Dynapoint, WW Powerpoint, WW Super X & Aguila Subsonic 40 gr. have gone downrange with no malfuntions yet. As far as cleaning, I simply pull the conversion out, dip it in lacquer thinner, run a brush over it, blow-out with compressed air & lube. Excellent running conversion. YMMV

I've seen Spike's Tactical & Grant's set-ups run great, too!

C4IGrant
10-31-07, 08:08
Grant, I already have an existing Ceiner kit. Can you put together an upper that would work with the existing kit and not the modified kit?

Karl


Did Spikes modify your Ciener kit? If no, then you cannot use Spikes barrels.


C4

C4IGrant
10-31-07, 08:08
I already have an extra carbine handguard. So I was looking at an A3 receiver and charging handle, modified kit, and correct barrel with no FS but threaded. Would a 4 inch barrel work and function properly with standard vel ammo?


We can help with that. The barrels come in two lengths (5.5 and 16).



C4

Logic
10-31-07, 23:55
We can help with that. The barrels come in two lengths (5.5 and 16).



C4

What would be an approximate cost with the 5.5 inch barrel. Do you also test them before shipping?

C4IGrant
11-01-07, 07:57
What would be an approximate cost with the 5.5 inch barrel. Do you also test them before shipping?


Depends on the other items that you want (rail, upper receiver, etc).


C4

davidp14
11-02-07, 10:35
Ive got over a thousand rds on my 1st run full body test mag both semi and FA, (mostly FA:D ) with zero failures. Ammo used is strictly CCI minimags SP's.


I also had some bad luck with the older, skinny ones but Bruce traded me for the new ones....Nice guy!