View Full Version : Looking for an inexpensive (not cheap) AK
Hey everyone been lurking around this forum for a long time and have learned many things about many rifles. I have looked over the pinned AK thread and learned even more. Now I am looking for peoples opinions. I am look at getting a inexpensive AK but at the same time I don't want it to be something that is cheap. I have had the chance to use a couple of Arsenal AK's but there are out of my price range. Is there anything comparable to them that doesn't carry that price premium? Also are there things that I should look for and be weary of when looking for one. While I have shot them I have no real experience or knowledge of them. I am looking for any advice or information because I know when it comes to AK's it can be hit and miss when not dealing with the bigger names. Hope you guys can help.
What is your absolute top price point?
Well I know it is not much but I would like to not spend more than $600. But on the other hand if that is not enough to get something of some quality I may be willing to put off the purchase till I can afford something better. But since this will be my first AK I also don't want to (and really can't) spend a lot. If you can't tell I need some advice, ha.
For $600.00, I'd look for a Chinese MAK-90 that was new or damn near new, and you can then unban it at your leisure as you have funds.
They are excellent AK's, and easily unbanned.
Advice from you means a lot so thank you.
Is there any online source for the MAK-90's? I can't seem to find any.
And I know this will make me sound like a newb (which I am when it comes to these) but how does one go about unbanning a weapon, and if it is banned how do you get it in the first place? If you have covered this before a link to it would be appreciated.
I want to go about this the right way which is why I ask these questions so any advice is welcome.
Edit: just so you know I ask about the online source because AK's are not common at any dealer in my area.
There are some on Gunbroker, but GB tends to be a little more expensive than they should be.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=242334645
Keep checking the boards, including www.sturmgewehr.com
As far as unbanning them, they came in the country after the 1989 Import Ban, so they have a thumbhole stock, no bayonet lug, and no threaded muzzle.
You can replace the thumbhole stock with a US made stock set, and the fire control group with a quality US made one, which will make it a US firearm (legally speaking), so you can have a separate pistol grip and stock.
Ironwood Designs makes very high quality US wood stocks for the MAK's, and K-Var makes excellent synthetic stocks that can be adapted to the Chinese rifles. K-Var and Tapco make good quality US fire control groups.
Hey thanks for everything. Until now I have mainly been a hand gun person and my favorite rifle that I have is a mosin nagant from 1924 so this is a big jump technologically and age wise. I have also been considering a SKS but the AK seems to be more adaptable and reliable. I could be wrong but with my knowledge only time will tell. If you or anyone else has any more advice or opinions I would greatly appreciate them. Thanks again.
No problem.
Let me back up a little.
If I had $600.00 to spend, I'd look for a Chinese MAK-90 and then unban it.
If I had $600.00 and wanted something quickly and didn't have a lot of AK knowledge, and didn't have any AK buddies close to me to help me find one locally, I'd buy a Romanian WASR 10/63 from a reputable company like AIM Surplus, Henderson Defense, or Atlantic Firearms.
Things to watch out for are severely canted front sights (a little cant is normal, and you can adjust the front sights) and a mag well that is either too loose or too tight.
If something is wrong, typically those three retailers will help out the customer before having to try to deal with Century by yourself.
If the rifles are currently sold out, then get on a waiting list.
Just don't go buying some three flavored crapsicle with a US made barrel. US made receivers from NODAK Spud are OK, but I still prefer a OEM receiver.
Thanks for going the extra mile. Since I have no one near by that is an AK owner I will most likely go with the WASR. And it seems like Henderson's "certified" AK's would be the safest route to go. Thanks for introducing me to them and the other dealers you mentioned.
Thanks for going the extra mile. Since I have no one near by that is an AK owner I will most likely go with the WASR. And it seems like Henderson's "certified" AK's would be the safest route to go. Thanks for introducing me to them and the other dealers you mentioned.
Only go with their "Certified" WASR's. The other "Certified" guns are crap. Not Henderson's fault, but it's what Century is shilling now, with US barrels and receivers.
The WASR's are at least kit builds done in Romania using Romanian military parts (barrels) and a civilian semi auto receiver.
Only go with their "Certified" WASR's. The other "Certified" guns are crap. Not Henderson's fault, but it's what Century is shilling now, with US barrels and receivers.
The WASR's are at least kit builds done in Romania using Romanian military parts (barrels) and a civilian semi auto receiver.
Sorry for more ignorance but would this be the WASR that is good?
http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Century-Certified-AK47-w-bayonet-and-two-magazines-50p10.htm
They mention the WASR 10 in most of there certified AK's descriptions so being the AK newb that I am, I am unsure.
Sorry for more ignorance but would this be the WASR that is good?
http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/Century-Certified-AK47-w-bayonet-and-two-magazines-50p10.htm
They mention the WASR 10 in most of there certified AK's descriptions so being the AK newb that I am, I am unsure.
It is indeed. Go forth and prosper.
Best deal on magazines:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK47E30&name=Surplus+European+Steel+AK47+7.62x39+30rd+Magazines&groupid=15
You are a godsend. Thanks for all the help.
Great thread. I've toyed with the idea of picking up an AK a few times just to have one (I doubt I'd shoot it much) but had assumed the only viable/reliable route was to get an Arsenal which are a bit pricey these days at $800.
Templar
What would one be giving up in going with something like the certified WASR from Henderson? It sounds like it should allow one to avoid the typical problems that come with cheaper AKs, but does the Arsenal still offer something significant over these?
Sadly, there's no chart for the AK, so I would have no idea what to even look for, but I'm guessing they are equivalent areas to the M4 where corners are cut on these, just curious what they might be.
Get an arsenal saiga fixed stock new or used.
Facejackets
07-24-11, 00:57
I can vouch for the HDI guys. They are local to me, and run a very good store. I bought a WASR2 from them about a year back, and it had a wanted front sight. I brought it back to them and they fixed it with any question or hassle.
My buddy may be selling his AK pretty soon. I can get some pics and details if you want. Just shoot me a pm.
evolixsurf
07-24-11, 10:22
I personally think you should just wait and get the quality arsenal. This gun will last for a long time and I think the extra couple hundred dollars will help. especially considering that it literally is only an extra couple hundred, not double the price.
I would save a little more and get one of the Arsenal SGL guns. They can be had in the $760 range. I think you would be happier in the end.
Templar
What would one be giving up in going with something like the certified WASR from Henderson? It sounds like it should allow one to avoid the typical problems that come with cheaper AKs, but does the Arsenal still offer something significant over these?
Sadly, there's no chart for the AK, so I would have no idea what to even look for, but I'm guessing they are equivalent areas to the M4 where corners are cut on these, just curious what they might be.
Currently, the WASR's are being built off of demilled/decommissioned rifles that the Romanians issued from the 1960's through the 1980's. They are built up on a receiver that will only allow single stack magazines to be used.
They are then brought in, and Century Arms then opens up the mag well to accept standard military magazines, installs a US gas piston, US fire control group, and US made pistol grip. That makes the rifle a US firearm, legally, so it's kosher to have a bayonet lug, separate pistol grip, threaded muzzle, and ability to use standard magazines.
What you're getting is a rifle that is built using surplus parts up to 45 years old, and being converted by people who aren't paid enough to give a damn whether they're doing a good job or not. When they open up that single stack receiver they weld some plates on the inside of the receiver to help act as stabilizers to minimize mag wobble. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.
It's a roll of the dice. The fact they're being built using parts that are 25-45 years old is actually not a bad thing considering the current state of the Romanian arms industry, but you're still getting used parts.
Buying from a reputable company like Henderson, AIM, or Atlantic, they will usually be ok with taking care of any serious issues for you. Henderson's "certified" program goes through the weapon before you buy it to try to catch any obvious, serious flaws.
A WASR can make a very functional arm. I know LAV uses a cleaned up WASR as a training AK.
Hope that explains some.
What would one be giving up in going with something like the certified WASR...
Propper magwell. Fit and finish.
You might need a different front sight adjustment tool, like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-41800.html
I would trust one functionally more than the cheap US built AK's.
<snip>
Hope that explains some.
Yes, that helps a ton. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain. And thanks for the additional points Todd K. Much appreciated.
I keep rolling around in my head the idea of picking one up but since I don't intend to use it for anything beyond the very rare range day when I'm not shooting one of my other guns or possibly an AK-specific class, if I can find one in my area, it sounds like the WASR would be a reasonable option. That's kind of at odds, though, with my general view on firearms which is buy the nicest one you can since the difference in cost quickly disappears in the face of ammo costs, magazines, etc. I ever do pick one up, I'm guessing it'll more likely be an Arsenal. Thanks again.
I personally think you should just wait and get the quality arsenal. This gun will last for a long time and I think the extra couple hundred dollars will help. especially considering that it literally is only an extra couple hundred, not double the price.
I would save a little more and get one of the Arsenal SGL guns. They can be had in the $760 range. I think you would be happier in the end.
I would agree with you both if I was staying with my original $600 dollar range, but I think for my first AK I am going to go with the WASR. My main reasoning behind this is being a college student the money that I do get doesn't usually accumulate that much. Saving is almost impossible in school right now so I will get what I can and improve it as I get the funds.
I'm glad to see this thread thrive. I hope it helps others with their similar decisions.
I would agree with you both if I was staying with my original $600 dollar range, but I think for my first AK I am going to go with the WASR. My main reasoning behind this is being a college student the money that I do get doesn't usually accumulate that much. Saving is almost impossible in school right now so I will get what I can and improve it as I get the funds.
I'm glad to see this thread thrive. I hope it helps others with their similar decisions.
When I went back to school and sold off my collection, the carbine I kept was a Norinco MAK90 that had been unbanned before we knew we weren't supposed to unban it. An AK like that is an excellent arm for someone that has limited funds, and will for the foreseeable future.
A Henderson WASR-10/63 will get you through the years until the funds start accumulating.
Voodoochild
07-24-11, 23:43
AIM Surplus used to have some WASR's for sale for 439ish. They are sold out now but it looked like a pretty good deal.
While I have always wanted to try my hand at building an AK, Templar is right just buy an Arsenal and be done with it. After you buy the parts kit tools and jigs, you would be approaching the cost of a new Arsenal. I do like MAK-90's if they are unbanned. Good advice!
Another point to keep in mind here is the intended function of this tool. Will one actually put rounds on POA better than the other? Most often the difference is negligable. You are rolling the dice a bit, but you will most likely get a tool that will do the job. Many of the SAR1 rifles were the same. I bought 3 of them to hand down to my sons when they come of age. Fixed a couple canted sights, refinished the wood and If I was to slap on a nice coat of paint they would look pretty good. Truth be told I can still hit a 1gal milk jug at 80-100yds and none of them have had a ftf fte. I'd say they work just fine. Can you spend more on a tool . . . absolutely. Will that make it work better . . . not always. The key is to have a tool! Better in my mind to spend $ on ammo and practice.
Slugger
Thanks this thread helped me out a lot too. I'm just jumping in, hope no one minds. Would anyone know if j&g sales or centerfire systems sale reliable WASR 10's. I know JG sales has the WASR 10/63 for sale. I ask about these too sites cause I live on Guam and I'm limited to dealers that will ship to here. henderson's site doesn't work for me and Atlantic won't ship to Guam. I'll have to check AIM's but they have been out for awhile. Thanks in advance.
the wasr 10/63, i think is a great deal. for the the price you get allot of rifle for the money, original chrome lined barrel,bayonet,slant cut mb,side mount for scope,30 round mag,cleaning rod(maybe). im really thinkin of gettin one myself.
Thanks this thread helped me out a lot too. I'm just jumping in, hope no one minds. Would anyone know if j&g sales or centerfire systems sale reliable WASR 10's. I know JG sales has the WASR 10/63 for sale. I ask about these too sites cause I live on Guam and I'm limited to dealers that will ship to here. henderson's site doesn't work for me and Atlantic won't ship to Guam. I'll have to check AIM's but they have been out for awhile. Thanks in advance.
I've not personally done any business with J&G, but guys I know who have don't really have any complaints. I would correspond with them first though about their return policies if your WASR is a lemon.
Thanks this thread helped me out a lot too. I'm just jumping in, hope no one minds. Would anyone know if j&g sales or centerfire systems sale reliable WASR 10's. I know JG sales has the WASR 10/63 for sale. I ask about these too sites cause I live on Guam and I'm limited to dealers that will ship to here. henderson's site doesn't work for me and Atlantic won't ship to Guam. I'll have to check AIM's but they have been out for awhile. Thanks in advance.
first of welcome, wondering why would you pick the wasr10 over the 10/63? wasr10 has perm. attached mb, no bayonet, no bayonet lug, but the 10/63 has all of that and as close as you can get to a military style ak, the price difference is not by much. as for shipping to guam i have no problems with aims surplus and jg sales.
first of welcome, wondering why would you pick the wasr10 over the 10/63? wasr10 has perm. attached mb, no bayonet, no bayonet lug, but the 10/63 has all of that and as close as you can get to a military style ak, the price difference is not by much. as for shipping to guam i have no problems with aims surplus and jg sales.
I'm just guessing, but Guam might have some kind of AWB in place.
I contacted J&G about the wasrs to see if they had any kind of "certified/hand picked" option. Here is the correspondence:
Sir,
Sorry, we do not offer a hand select on these rifles. They are all likely to have mag wobble and canted sights.
J&G Sales
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Grizzly
<secrent@adomain.com> wrote:
Do you all offer any kind of hand pick option for the wasr10 rifles like you do for the mosins? I'd like to buy two of the side folding wasrs (AK-47 WASR10/63SFP) but would like to make sure the mags don't slop around and the sights aren't canted before purchasing.
I purchased a non-wasr elsewhere. Nothing against J&G they were honest and I've ordered quite a few mosins from them. And may get more in the future. But for getting a good wasr ak I'd look elsewhere.
I'm just guessing, but Guam might have some kind of AWB in place.
the best to my knowledge the only thing we civilians cannot own are SBR firearms, my local ffl dealer brought in some rom 10/63 with the bayonets etc.. but yeah i need to read more into the AWB, just to get more info
Thanks again everyone.. i've been slowly doing my research on things and like bm176 i will be looking more into my local laws..
bm176.. i listed WASR 10 in general because centerfire has labeled them as such.. even though by comparing the pics of their two WASR 10s one looks to be a 10/63..
Templar.. i will have to look more into the return policy.. especially sense they do not "certify" or check them.. I'm not sure if i want to take a gamble on my first AK.. With the money i am planning on spending i was thinking of getting the WASR 10/63 and a mini draco from JG..
i was also able to confirm that AIM surplus can ship firearms to Guam.. which opens up the option to just get an Arsenal SGL-21..
now to debate and more research..
to just get an Arsenal SGL-21..
If you can afford it, that's the way to go.
Thanks this thread helped me out a lot too. I'm just jumping in, hope no one minds. Would anyone know if j&g sales or centerfire systems sale reliable WASR 10's. I know JG sales has the WASR 10/63 for sale. I ask about these too sites cause I live on Guam and I'm limited to dealers that will ship to here. henderson's site doesn't work for me and Atlantic won't ship to Guam. I'll have to check AIM's but they have been out for awhile. Thanks in advance.
I meant to answer this as well. I ended up buying one of the bulgarian aks from center fire. The stock/grip is worthless. But the gun functions great, handles the high cap surplus mags well and is fairly accurate through the first 200 rounds. The stock is harder to change than normal because of the receiver. But $20 less than a wasr.
If you can afford it, that's the way to go.
I think I will go with the arsenal for added reassurance since it will be my first AK. The idea of having two for the price of one is very tempting, but in general you get what you pay for. I'll gamble if I get a second one. Thanks for the input everyone.
If you can afford it, that's the way to go.
They just got one of these in at my local store (West Coast Armory) and I played around with it. Very nice. I don't need another freaking rifle (hell, I need to become proficient with the ones I have) but I'm not sure I can resist the temptation.
If you suddenly see me throw a bunch of stuff up on EE (NIB Colt BCG I have, a bunch of 45 ACP ammo, extra LMT SOPMOD, etc) you'll know I gave in and bought the damn thing.
WASR 10/63 from AIM Surplus. Still have some money left over for magazines, too.
WASR 10/63 from AIM Surplus. Still have some money left over for magazines, too.
That is what I was looking into at first but in an email from AIM Surplus 7/28/11 - "The WASRs are on order but we do not have an ETA at this time." So I'll see when the time comes, but the arsenals currently has my vote.
The idea of having two for the price of one is very tempting, but in general you get what you pay for.
Well said.
I had nothing at all to do with this video, but it made me laugh. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2dyXc7jhX8
:D
This thread started began as a discussion of " inexpensive (not cheap) AK". What if the criteria were reversed to be the best (in general, not knowing exactly how to define that...reliable, quality, function, etc) AK, price aside, what would the recommendations be? Aresnal, other?
This thread started began as a discussion of " inexpensive (not cheap) AK". What if the criteria were reversed to be the best (in general, not knowing exactly how to define that...reliable, quality, function, etc) AK, price aside, what would the recommendations be? Aresnal, other?
Over the counter, I still recommend Arsenal Inc.
If you gather up the parts and have a well known smith who knows what they are about build something up, then you can have a top quality AK as well, but I still suggest sticking with a OEM receiver and barrel.
Well said.
I had nothing at all to do with this video, but it made me laugh. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2dyXc7jhX8
:D
This video IS the bomb - guess I'm a newbie.
OP came to the right place.
Well, if nothing else this thread just pushed me over the edge as I just picked up an Arsenal SGL21 today.
I think it's going to take awhile to get used to it as I've only ever shot an AK once before. I managed to tear up my hand while fumbling my way through basic weapons manipulations (clearing, loading, safety, etc). Though I'm no expert with the AR, it's certainly humbling to go to another platform and feel like you're starting all over again.
i agree with randyha, thats why i suggested the romanian 10/63, and agree with templar as he suggested sticking with OEM receiver and barrel, thats why i have 3 romanian's cugir psl/mini-draco/rpk aes10b, and soon to be 10/63;)
crusader377
07-29-11, 21:18
Well, if nothing else this thread just pushed me over the edge as I just picked up an Arsenal SGL21 today.
I think it's going to take awhile to get used to it as I've only ever shot an AK once before. I managed to tear up my hand while fumbling my way through basic weapons manipulations (clearing, loading, safety, etc). Though I'm no expert with the AR, it's certainly humbling to go to another platform and feel like you're starting all over again.
Congrats on your purchase. The Arsenal SGL21 is a great rifle. I own one myself and have been extremely happy with it.
Good purchase. You'll be happy with that.
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