View Full Version : How About CZ?
Ok, I have been doing some research and I am going to purchase a CZ P-01 (De-cocker, stock trigger) or CZ 75 B Compact Omega (De-cocker or Safety, omega trigger) when I sell my Springfield 1911. I have searched the internet and the archives here and I see that the recoil spring is soft and will need to be replaced with Wolf spring. Same weak spring issue with the extractor. I also understand that using an aftermarket steel guide rod will also damage the frame.
CZ seems to be underrated and other than maintenance, trouble free. Are there any other issues out there that I have not yet found?
For those of you that have CZ pistols which one would you choose?
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p01/
http://czcustom.com/cz75bp029mmcompactomega.aspx
Thanks,
Justin
Ok, I have been doing some research and I am going to purchase a CZ P-01 (De-cocker, stock trigger) or CZ 75 B Compact Omega (De-cocker or Safety, omega trigger) when I sell my Springfield 1911. I have searched the internet and the archives here and I see that the recoil spring is soft and will need to be replaced with Wolf spring. Same weak spring issue with the extractor. I also understand that using an aftermarket steel guide rod will also damage the frame.
CZ seems to be underrated and other than maintenance, trouble free. Are there any other issues out there that I have not yet found?
For those of you that have CZ pistols which one would you choose?
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p01/
http://czcustom.com/cz75bp029mmcompactomega.aspx
Thanks,
Justin
Hold on there. Replacing stock parts with aftermarket parts can be bad. For instance, the stock recoil spring on the CZ was put on there for a reason by the engineers. Increasing the recoil spring weight will reduce the stress as the pistol recoils, but will increase the return force on parts such as the slide stop. Slide stop breakages are one of the most common parts to break on the CZ, which is why the competition models have 5 extra slide stops included.
Personally, I have owned 6 CZs over the years. A 75b, 75bd, P-01, SP-01, RAMI, and a 97b. I felt that the original design was the best overall which was the 75b. I only own this one now, and have sold off all the others. The CZ line have two strengths which are that they have nice ergonomics, and they are accurate. I've found them to be to be problematic otherwise. All of the ones that I have owned have not have very many rounds through them before they needed to have springs or parts replaced in order to make them run like they did out of the box. Weak points to the design are the trigger spring design in which I've replaced 7 of them, the slide stop which takes direct return force of the slide and I've replaced 5 of those, and a weak main spring assembly which breaks and can give light strikes on hard primers. That's with the 9mm models. The 97b was FAR worse for me.
The CZ is a gun that you pay very little for in the beginning, but if you use it extensively you'll pay a lot more in the long run to keep it reliable and running right. The other end of the spectrum would be something like an H&K which has a more expensive purchase price, but will cost you very little in the long run to keep running well. Just look at Todd Green's 100,000 round endurance run on the HK P30.
This is a back-up to my Glock. It will be a range toy but I would like for it to be very reliable in the long run. What type of long term repairs are you refering to? If it is replacing worn out parts that is ok, i expect that.
This is a back-up to my Glock. It will be a range toy but I would like for it to be very reliable in the long run. What type of long term repairs are you refering to? If it is replacing worn out parts that is ok, i expect that.
if you already have a glock go for it.
I'd be sure to spend some serious time with it assuring reliability before you carry it or anything though.
This is a back-up to my Glock. It will be a range toy but I would like for it to be very reliable in the long run. What type of long term repairs are you refering to? If it is replacing worn out parts that is ok, i expect that.
For the 9mm guns, most of the springs, the slide stop, and roll pins. The two most common parts breakages are the trigger bar spring, and the slide stop. The problem with these parts breakages is that it rendures your pistol useless until they are repaired. It's an additional risk to take for a defensive pistol. If you dedicate yourself to the CZ platform, and are knowledgeable about it's ins and outs, then you can minimize these issues. Kinda like a 1911 user needs to have similar knowledge to keep the 1911 running well for serious use.
I've had 3 75s and have found them to be very reliable, the only pistols I have had that did not have to go back to the factory one time or the other. I have found they like to be kept very wet with oil. It is true that at some time you may have to replace a slide stop or a trigger spring, I don't think they are any worse in quality compared to the current offerings of other manufacturers and actually better than most, just my opinion. The only one I like as well at the moment is the HK P30.
From what I'm hearing they are not close to, say, GLOCK or H&K - and probably Sig Sauer - in terms of DURABILITY.
Tread with caution.
I've had 3 75s and have found them to be very reliable, the only pistols I have had that did not have to go back to the factory one time or the other. I have found they like to be kept very wet with oil. It is true that at some time you may have to replace a slide stop or a trigger spring, I don't think they are any worse in quality compared to the current offerings of other manufacturers and actually better than most, just my opinion. The only one I like as well at the moment is the HK P30.
So it seems like regular maintenance and some extra parts should be kept in reserve. I am good with that. Am I right to assume that the parts are easily found or ordered. I just don’t want to be stuck with a gun that I could not order parts for if there was an import ban.
From what I'm hearing they are not close to, say, GLOCK or H&K - and probably Sig Sauer - in terms of DURABILITY.
Tread with caution.
I looked at the Sig 229 but I am also worried about the Sig USA Quality Control. I do like the Sig as well but I also think that you buy the name. On a side note the CZ Feels awsome in my hand compared to the 229.
I have an SP-01.
Very soon after I bought it, I replaced the roll pin in the slide that retains the firing pin. The original was mangled at the factory.
I chose to put a different magazine catch spring in it.
I changed the sear spring and polished the sear. (not for the meek)
I'm also using MecGar mags.
I found out that the transition from the chamber to the rifling is pretty abrupt. This meant that some of the longer loaded cartridges that fit in the magazine would sometimes stick in the rifling. It never was enough to cause a problem while shooting but sometimes made unloading a struggle. I didn't want to possibly pull the case off a bullet so I had a machinist cut slightly more leade which fixed the issue.
I now have upward of 4000 rounds through the pistol.
My gun only choked on some Blazer aluminum cased ammo.
Another guy at our range bought a Shadow and experienced several of the problems mentioned by KhanRad.
From what I remember, his trigger bar spring broke.
He also broke a slidestop every 1200-1500 rounds like clockwork; he went through three.
After hearing his experience I was concerned about the possibility of that happening in my gun so I bought a spare slide stop. Mine's been good though.
I looked at the Sig 229 but I am also worried about the Sig USA Quality Control. I do like the Sig as well but I also think that you buy the name. On a side note the CZ Feels awsome in my hand compared to the 229.
The P229 is not that great when it comes to ergonomics or balance. If you can find a P228 though, the balance is superb, and it makes the grip feel better as well. I see them every now and then at gun shows, on online gun classifieds, or on Sig Forums.
As for Sig USA quality controls, it's easy to find pre 2005(pre Ron Cohen era) Sig pistols. The old Sigs made under the "Sigarms" company were at the same level as H&Ks when it came to reliable, durable, and top performing pistols right out of the box. It's easy to find what you want if you know what to look for to date a Sig.
I bought 2 CZ P-01's a few years ago, and really liked them. My favorite ergonomically, and pretty darn accurate. I asked CZ for extra slide stops and they sent them to me. I rotated them regularly (had some set aside for range/practice, and another that I used for daily carry) because of the rumors regarding them being prone to breakage.
I never broke one, but I don't think I ever ran a single slide stop beyond maybe 1500 - 2000 rounds. Anecdotal, you do hear about it often enough, but I also hear from guys who swear they have 10k or 15k rounds on a slide stop without issue. Same with trigger return springs.
For me, it made me nervous, so I rotated slide stops, and eventually moved to carrying an M&P 9c for EDC... Peace of mind.
I would like to find DA/SA with decocker like the P-01, that was known to be reliable, as I really liked that configuration. Plus the ergo's were so good and had a low bore axis and was accurate... I liked everything about my P-01 accept all the reported problems.
SP-01 Phantom. Full size, outstanding ergo's, good trigger, hi-cap and fits the hand like a glove.
CZ Pieces & Parts
http://czcustom.com/
.
On the CZ, I could never get past the slide's low height. Just not enough slide to pinch...to me.
But the good thing about your scenario...you're using the CZ to back up a Glock, so it should see little use.
Just curious, how did you come up with the idea to get a CZ for a backup? I think most people reason to get the same model/type gun for a backup.
But maybe it's just me...
.
Do a search for available holsters for this CZ before you bet the ranch on it.
You will like the CZ, they're very solid, you are correct in saying they are underrated.
They have some parts that may wear, and eventually even break (though it's WAY more unlikely than some tactical-ninjas who've never owned or even probably shot a CZ will tell you), having spares on hand isn't a bad idea as they're cheap. Things that may need replacing are: trigger-return-spring, extractor-spring, extractor, and slide-stop, but don't be surprised if you don't ever need them.
I've run thousands upon thousands of rounds through a few different CZ's over the last couple of years and I've found them to be very nearly as reliable as my Glocks, even more so than M&P's, Sigs, and even H&K's (which may hurt some people's feelings around here), it's no coincidence that while not super popular in the overall Amercan gun market, they're gaining ground fast and CZ's are extremely popular in practical shooting sports like IPSC, USPSA, and even getting more and more popular in the very American-leaning IDPA.
Advanced competition shooting is unkind to many platforms considered tacti-cool in more defensive/tactics-oriented circles, and many of them that are so revered in those circles possess flaws/idiosyncrasies that become glaring under the cruelty of the stopwatch, and many, especially the designs that are not easy to detail-strip and maintain without needing a factory armorer just cannot stand up to the shear abuse that high round counts in short amounts of time dish out. The CZ's do this en masse, with many different but related models being used extensively and with success throughout all the varying classes across practical shooting sports.
There are lots of IPSC/USPSA guys who have 15,000+ on CZ's that are still going strong, if they were unreliable, problematic, or moody in any way they wouldn't be as popular, and thinking that somehow those same attributes that work so well in competition don't transfer to defensive/tactical applications is just ridiculous.
A P-01 is a great piece, especially if you're sold on having a decocker, but the traditional CZ set-up of DA/SA with a manual safety allows for a better trigger and makes so much sense once you get used to it, I dare you to try a Shadow sometime...
.
On the CZ, I could never get past the slide's low height. Just not enough slide to pinch...to me.
But the good thing about your scenario...you're using the CZ to back up a Glock, so it should see little use.
Just curious, how did you come up with the idea to get a CZ for a backup? I think most people reason to get the same model/type gun for a backup.
But maybe it's just me...
.
I wanted a gun that was a bit heavier than my Glock b/c that would cut down on felt recoil and make me a bit more accurate.
I also love single action but I do not feel comfortable carrying condition 1 with my 1911 and it is too heavy.
The CZ seems to be lighter, can carry condition 1 due to DA/SA comfortably, larger capacity, and an alloy frame. Lighter than 1911 but heavier than Glock (I love metal guns). Mostly a fun gun and rarley carry gun.
Do a search for available holsters for this CZ before you bet the ranch on it.
I knew that this would pose a problem, but i think it opens up an opportunity to try and make my own kydex holster.
ck1,
I saw the Shadow on the web and my wallet fears the Shadow!
Nephrology
07-25-11, 10:37
I have had good experience with them. For what you describe they sound like a good idea. Not my top choice for a duty pistol but for a fun range gun they are not bad at all...
I have had nothing but excellent experience shooting my SP-01 in 40 S&W. I also have a 75B SA in 9mm and a Duty P07 in 40 S&W. All excellent firearms.
I bought one of the first Glock 17 pistols that came into this country. I was really into it - even had the adjustable rear sight break off on me. The Glock folks replaced it. This is before the various PD started adopting it and the present Glock popularity. I predicted that it would catch on to friends and family and guess what? There were many people that did not like the "plastic pistol that could not be detected through airport metal detectors" but it became very popular.
However, I no longer own a Glock - the ergonomics suck - for me. They are great pistols but I have never bought into the cool aid nor the bias that attaches itself to fans of the different brands out there. Be happy with your purchase, if not get rid of it and get something that works for you - that is the bottom line.
if you already have a glock go for it.
I'd be sure to spend some serious time with it assuring reliability before you carry it or anything though.
I agree with this. There is no way I would want my CZ 75B to be my only gun. But it is a good range toy and cool to try if you want something different.
I love the heavy weight, the way it feels in my hand, inexpensive mags, and the finish. I have one with a glossy blue finish. I also shoot it noticeably more accurately than any of my other guns (through informal testing/range time).
But, here are some problems/complaints I have had:
The slide locks back prematurely. When a round is being chambered, it sometimes drags the round beneath it forward. The tip of that round hits the slide stop (the end that would normally touch the mag follower on the final round to lock the slide back). This causes the slide stop to move up and lock the sldie back. It took me a long time to figure out what caused this "failure."
The roll pin in the slide (firing pin retaining pin) breaks very easily when dry firing.
On the rear sight, there are 2 dots. But the dots are not level, one is higher and further off to the side than the other. It's not a big deal, but it's funny/annoying, and a sign of mediocre quality.
The front sight is pinned in place, and has come a little loose through shooting.
Empty mags didn't drop free. I am farily sure this is by design. But I "fixed" this by bending a metal plate inside the mag well (if I remember correctly.
The trigger break is not crisp at all.
The glossy blue finish is not very durable. My frame has started to corrode a little in some places near the grip.
Joe Mamma
legumeofterror
07-25-11, 18:13
I carry a CZ-75B Omega. I have a little over 3000 rounds through it and many more dry fires without a single malfunction or breakage. This is my primary handgun. It gets carried into the woods, salt marshes, on the ocean, and has been submerged more than once. I have fed it everything from Winchester ranger to my shitty lead reloads and it runs. The only real issue is light rust on the areas where the holster has warn away the finish. I hear a lot of stories about reliability and durability issues, but they do not mirror my experience and I have full confidence in the pistol.
If you do decide on a pistol with the Omega trigger, be sure to use only the factory mags, or after markets of the same capacity. The 17 round Mec-gars are wider at the top and will interfere with the transfer bar spring.
I knew that this would pose a problem, but i think it opens up an opportunity to try and make my own kydex holster.
ck1,
I saw the Shadow on the web and my wallet fears the Shadow!
Falco makes several holsters for the P01, I use It34s for both it and my BD models. They are leather and cost about $60 but you will have to wait about 4 weeks for it to ship from Slovakia. High noon also makes very good holsters but they are more expensive.
Also I think you will be very pleased with the way the P01 shoots, my wife was able to hit very well at 20 yards with it but could not hit at 7 yards with a Glock 19. Needless to say the Glock was sold.
ck1,
I saw the Shadow on the web and my wallet fears the Shadow!
Ha ha, everything is relative though... if you were to happen upon a Shadow in your LGS (which you probably won't 'cause they're a somewhat rare and specialized pistol, so a shop wouldn't have one unless the owner or guy doing the ordering was a CZ-aficionado, and even if they did it'd be gone in no time as the word is out), you wouldn't be comparing it to the other $500-900 duty/SD guns, you'd pull the trigger once and then you'd be comparing it against $3K+ 1911's, their triggers are that good. Really, for how nice their triggers are, how accurate they are, and how reliablely they run they're actually kind of a bargain, sheesh, I've had $1000+ 1911's where they had pretty good triggers, but I would've been better off throwing the thing at a BG rather than trying to shoot it at him they ran so crappy... Plus, 9mm 1911's are a f'ing headache and never really run perfectly no matter what you spend, the Shadow is the answer to that question. (JMHO)
Ha ha, everything is relative though... if you were to happen upon a Shadow in your LGS (which you probably won't 'cause they're a somewhat rare and specialized pistol, so a shop wouldn't have one unless the owner or guy doing the ordering was a CZ-aficionado, and even if they did it'd be gone in no time as the word is out), you wouldn't be comparing it to the other $500-900 duty/SD guns, you'd pull the trigger once and then you'd be comparing it against $3K+ 1911's, their triggers are that good. Really, for how nice their triggers are, how accurate they are, and how reliablely they run they're actually kind of a bargain, sheesh, I've had $1000+ 1911's where they had pretty good triggers, but I would've been better off throwing the thing at a BG rather than trying to shoot it at him they ran so crappy... Plus, 9mm 1911's are a f'ing headache and never really run perfectly no matter what you spend, the Shadow is the answer to that question. (JMHO)
That is what really interests me in the CZ. I keep hearing the trigger is excellent compared to most other guns and usually better than say Sig. Even if I pay a bit extra for the CZ custom trigger job it is not outrageously priced like the 1911 job I tried to do on my own. I like the 1911 I have in stock configuration but if I try to make anything “better” (forgive me) it will not run. I think the CZ has the action I have been looking for in a 9mm.
Thanks all, as soon as the 1911 is sold the P-01 will be purchased and my first range report will follow.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.