New Remington 700 SPS Tactical range report [Archive]

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Alaskapopo

07-26-11, 02:21

Well you guys are going to laugh at this but I bought a new rifle because I had a free scope from Burris (Full Field II 6.5-20x)that I was not using. I also had a .308 reloading set up with brass, primers etc but no gun. So I saw this Remington 700 SPS in the Black Dog gun shop in Soldotna with a 20 inch barrel. It was love at first sight.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bolt%20action/Remington700.jpg
My long range plan for this rifle is to upgrade the scope to a Nightforce 3.5-15 NSX later, then get a good stock that takes M14 mags preferably, then down the road have a smith true the action and replace the barrel. (Not till its shot out) (Any advice on which scope options, stock and smith is appreciated)

I used an EGW mount with a 20 moa cant to it and some 30 mm rings a buddy gave me and some spacers from Larue to allow you to use a 1 inch scope in 30 mm rings. I got the scope mounted and then I loaded 50 rounds with the following loads.
1. 42 grains of RE15 (Sierra manual accuracy load)
2. 42 grains of H335
3. 42 grains of Varget (friends load he recommended)
4. 42 grains of N140 ( I have a lot of this powder on hand)
When I got to the range I started the zero process at 25 yards. I did not bother to bore sight. I just put up a blank cardboard USPSA target with a 2.5 inch post it note in the middle of it. 3 shots later it was centered at 25. Then I moved to 100 yards and 6 shots later it was zeroed at that range. The first load I zeroed with was the H335 load. I had to bottom the scope adjustment out and this load was still shooting .635 above the point of aim. I plan to upgrade the scope around tax return time so I can live with the POA difference for now. After grouping the H335 load I was starting to get disappointed as the groups were nothing to write home about (average of 1.02) but things got better.
The RE15 load was next and it averaged .81. Not bad but I wanted better
The Varget load averaged .734 better and I could have lived with this but then I got really happy.
The N140 load proved to be the best of the bunch with an average of .55 for 5 5shot groups fired. Below are photos of the targets I shot with the chrono data attached as well. I plan to experiment by moving up and down from 42 grains of N140 to see if it can get even better.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/H335.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/RE15Load.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/Vargetload.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/N140load.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/Ballisticsilvertips.jpg

It was a great relaxing day at the range. It started out a little rainy but ended up with the sun showing through.

Sam

07-26-11, 06:51

NIce rifle. Love mine, got it about 3 years ago, similar set up to yours with the 20 MOA rail and bipod. Best group during the initial zero process was 0.375" - 3 shots at 100yd with 168gr. surplus ball ammo. My scope is a Nikon 4x18. Have fun with it.

Eurodriver

07-26-11, 07:30

I bought a 700P with the 26" barrel in .308. The action is bedded, it has a Timney 510 and a Vortex Viper PST FFP MRAD 6-24x50. I recently had it cut down to 20" and threaded 5/8x24.

I haven't shot it since I got the barrel cut but I had no issues shooting less than 1 MOA at 300 yards with 168gr FGMM.

You gonna suppress it?

Littlelebowski

07-26-11, 08:54

Nice buy and good shooting. It is stomp down amazing how well factory Remingtons shoot nowadays.

I'd upgrade the stock first.

markm

07-26-11, 09:28

I have the exact rifle too. Warne Base, TPS rings, and a Super Sniper for now. No Bi Pod due to the rumored stock flex with this Hogue thingy.

I've only have dope out to 200 yards. I went out to try 500 a few weeks back, but I took a broad with me and she started taking her clothes off in the desert because I wasn't paying attention to her. TRUE STORY!!

d90king

07-26-11, 09:47

Good get! I prefer a 20" (patrol) length bolt myself and I have found it to be just as accurate as my 26" 700P out to 600 yds. You might want to check and see if your stock is flexing and touching the barrel with your bi pod attached. Some do and some dont so its worth checking especially if you are getting any fliers that leave you scratching your head.

I am running a 20" FN TSR XP with a Nightforce 3.5-15 MLR that I like a lot.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/6d89423f.jpg

d90king

07-26-11, 09:56

longball

07-26-11, 10:13

Pics or it didn't happen right? :jester:

Good shooting Alaskapopo. That Remington should provide you with lots of grins in the years to come. Mine sure has! I shot some prairie dogs in Colorado with mine in April. Watching those little suckers pop at 450yds and do backflips at closer ranges will definitely put a smile on your face.

tuck

07-26-11, 10:18

I've had good luck with 168gr SMK's loaded on top of 43.5grs of IMR 4064. Muzzle velocity is right around 2650fps, and groups hover right around .6 MOA. You might try that out if you get a chance.

As for stock options, here's my rifle wearing a Choate tactical:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/tuckinauster/gun%20porn/100_2215.jpg

markm

07-26-11, 11:09

You gotta do better than that... Pics of naked broad in desert? Details, man we need details. :lol:

You're just going to have to take my word on this. :eek:

I wasn't thinking about my camera phone at the time....

orkan

07-26-11, 12:01

Haven't found a sps tac that didn't shoot. Step up to 44gr of varget, it will probably shoot in the sub .5's.

If you really want it to shoot, replace it with a good stock and bed it. Then replace the trigger. That will likely be all it needs until you burn out the barrel.

Alaskapopo

07-26-11, 12:18

Nice buy and good shooting. It is stomp down amazing how well factory Remingtons shoot nowadays.

I'd upgrade the stock first.

Which one do you recommend?
Pat

orkan

07-26-11, 12:38

Buy whatever stock fits you best for your intended application. :)

Manners, McMillan, AICS.

After that in a lower price point is bell & carlson, HS precision, and a few others.

macman37

07-26-11, 14:04

Good stuff. I'm hoping to get out with mine soon, later this week or next. :)

Alaskapopo

07-26-11, 14:13

Buy whatever stock fits you best for your intended application. :)

Manners, McMillan, AICS.

After that in a lower price point is bell & carlson, HS precision, and a few others.

I really like the Accuracy Internation stocks for the looks and the detachable mags. I want a stock that I don't have to bed because I don't know how. Is the ACS worth the price is what has me held up.
pat

orkan

07-26-11, 14:15

Yes, it is worth the price.

If you were to buy a manners or mcmillan, you would have to buy a DBM and have both the action and the DBM bedded, which would bring the cost of the stock equal to (or more than) the AICS.

Alaskapopo

07-26-11, 14:15

tuck

07-26-11, 14:23

That stock looks nice. How much was it and what model. What kind of bedding if any did you have to do?
Pat

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=190699

I got mine used for like $150... It'd be hard to find a nicer stock for the money.

I haven't had a chance to bed mine yet, so the action is sitting in the aluminum bedding block for now.

ICANHITHIMMAN

07-26-11, 18:38

I would go with a stock from Tom Manners just based on turn around times, 16 weeks as it stands right now. I use 2 gun smiths right now, but my choice for what you want would be Kevin Cram at Montoure county rifles. He has built 2 rifles for me and one for a buddy.

R15 is my go to 308 win powder best speeds and safe for auto loaders to. It is also the powder used in LR118 by the military. I dont know your twist rate but I would pick a bigger bullet.

http://montourcountyrifles.com/

cheaptrick

07-26-11, 18:56

Good review and shooting! Thanks!

Shotdown

07-27-11, 19:29

I love my Rem 700 SPS Tactical. Great rifle.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp296/pricanaf/97c1aa4b.jpg

Pappabear

07-28-11, 02:18

Alaskapopo

07-28-11, 02:30

I need to become more patient. I noticed my powder measure on my dillion was throwing the charges off by as much as 1 grain. I loaded some 168 grain A max bullets weighing each charge and using a powder trickler to make them all the same and my velocity spread went down to just 10fps. The group size at 100 yards stayed about the same however. But at longer ranges 10fps will beat 60fps difference I believe.
Pat

d90king

07-28-11, 09:29

Markm has me wanting a bolt 308. Is there a rem 700 that comes with the stock already upgraded vs buying the SPS and later upgrading. I actually like that hogue stock pretty well.

Nice shooting and good review. This thread certainly builds on the strong Rem 700 story.

Pretty sure that the 700P comes in a HS Precision stock. Its an okay stock, but if you get into precision shooting I would think that you would still want to upgrade the stock, if for no other reason than to have a better cheek weld. The Hogue stocks aren't horrible but really lack in the cheek weld department.

The FN SPR comes standard in a McMillian A5 (pretty sure its the A5) but it is a bit more expensive upfront. In hindsight I wish I had gone that route instead of having to restock the TSR XP... Live and learn.:angry:

orkan

07-28-11, 10:13

700p is a great choice. As for needing to upgrade the stock for precision shooting... I disagree. Bed it, and it will be fine. You know how many bone stock 700p's are fielded by LE agencies around the country? LOTS. So the idea that they aren't accurate enough as is, or that they need re-stocked isn't really a good statement, in my opinion.

The standard hogue stock is a turd. It flexes with the slightest pressure on the bipod, which causes POI shift. I had a 223 SPS tac that had that stock on there. I could put differing pressure on the bipod and call my POI shift after a while, which was up to as much as 3" from POA. I replaced the stock, and the gun was a 1/2-3/4 MOA shooter. Prior to that, it would pull 3/4 - 1.5MOA.

Having a good stock is important, but more important than the stock, is the bedding. Obviously a stock remington tupperware version isn't worth bedding. However, any good fiberglass stock, when properly bedded to the action, will produce repeatable results.

The question of stock quality isn't so much in that they produce differences in accuracy, but in that they provide different levels of options, strength, and handling. In other words, a HS precision or bell & carlson will shoot just as well as a mcmillan or manners if properly bedded. It's just that the mcmillan and manners is likely much more rugged than the bell or HS. ... however this subject is highly debatable, as to which is the best/strongest.

I love me some manners stocks... but that doesn't stop my HS stocked 22-250 from putting bullets right where they are suppose to be.

So, concentrate on what your intended purpose is for the rifle, and stock it accordingly based on what is important. ie: Handling, Weight, Stock pattern (A5, A3, thumbhole, etc), and strength. Don't look at re-stocking as an evil, but as a good! A good that consequently will add value to your firearm. :)

Littlelebowski

07-28-11, 10:14

Which one do you recommend?
Pat

I'd pick up a used Bell & Carlson M40 (like mine (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo10.jpg)) or an HS precision LTR takeoff stock. Both can be found at the Hide.

Nice HS for sale (http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2687473&Searchpage=7&Main=237598).

Pappabear

07-28-11, 10:37

I was looking at Buds. They have a Rem 700 with HS Precision for $1,000. 24 inch 5R barrel...seems like a good set up? Any downsides to this rifle that I'm missing. I guess it MAY, need to be bedded. And I wish the barrel was black , not silver, but that could be addressed to if that bothered me over time.

The next gun up from that is $1,600 and wallet ain't liking that number.

orkan

07-28-11, 10:43

What are you looking to do with this rifle? Having an idea of your intention would help us help you.

Littlelebowski

07-28-11, 12:31

markm

07-28-11, 12:46

You could always get an SPS or AAC-SD 20" and pick up a used LTR or B&C stock for about the same price or less. I'd much rather have a shorter barrel.

I agree. I'm getting plenty of velocity out of my 20". And it's just heavy enough to where you can shoot 30-40 rounds per session without beating yourself up too much.

TWR

07-28-11, 18:15

I to like the 20" barrels, the LTR's and XCR Tactical rifles come with fluting and HS stocks, the XCR comes with a 40X trigger but I have heard the later LTR's come so equipped also.

I need a 223 version of my XCR...

Alaskapopo

07-28-11, 20:56

I'd pick up a used Bell & Carlson M40 (like mine (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo10.jpg)) or an HS precision LTR takeoff stock. Both can be found at the Hide.

Nice HS for sale (http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2687473&Searchpage=7&Main=237598).

Thanks for the link but I was too late.
pat

Pappabear

07-29-11, 22:50

I like the 20 inch also. If I get the SPS, is it very simple dropping the receiver in a Bell & Carlson stock?

Are you guys hot on the 5R barrels? Much to that, or same shit different name?

Littlelebowski

08-01-11, 12:03

Pat, you need a Bolt Lift (http://kineticresearchgroup.com/products/boltlift.php). I have one and can't recommend it enough.

AZ-Renegade

08-01-11, 12:33

Pappabear

08-01-11, 13:03

Pat, you need a Bolt Lift (http://kineticresearchgroup.com/products/boltlift.php). I have one and can't recommend it enough.

Pretty cool. Good link for my future gun , I hope.

Pappabear

08-01-11, 13:09

I was interested in the 5R Milspec for a while but after handling a 20 inch threaded barrel version at Scottsdale Gun Club I thought it was a little heavy for my requirements.

I ended up going with the AAC-SD and saved about $450. I haven't compared them side by side but the AAC-SD seems lighter.

What is a pillar bedded stock on these guns? Better than standard hogue or the same? I'd like to find a 5R rem 700 on cheap stock that I could,upgrade. I looked at that gun at SGC TOO. liked the barrel, not the $1,200 price.

Are there any rem 700 with 5R barrels that don't cost 1K+?

Why do I want a 5R? All the reasons they designed it.

AZ-Renegade

08-01-11, 17:56

I found these informative:

http://www.tobystactical.com/2007/11/remington-700-ss-5r-milspec.html

http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml

And If you decide it's the one for you, this was the best price I've seen:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540287

AZ-Renegade

08-01-11, 17:59

Lebowski,

What advantage does a bolt lift/tactical bolt give the shooter over the stock bolt handle?

ForTehNguyen

08-01-11, 18:04

its bigger so you can grab onto it for actioning the bolt more consistently. I've shot a little on my friends Remmy 700 and you can miss the handle easily. Its like having too small of a grip on your AR

Pappabear

08-01-11, 22:46

I found these seen:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540287

What's your opinion on that stock on the Milspec rifle? I know there are better aftermarket ones, so how does it rate?

AZ-Renegade

08-02-11, 09:55

I'm new to the bolt gun game myself so I don't know too much about stocks. I personally didn't care for the profile of the stock, it seemed to me to be designed more for prone or bench shooting. If you plan on packing the rifle around for hunting or tactical competition, I would go with a lighter stock.

It is an HS stock so it should be pretty decent, much better than the Hogue stock which I intend to replace.

Pappabear

08-02-11, 10:24

i thought it was HS, like you said decent. I have one on my Weatherby SUB MOA gun. I've been having a nightmare trying to find a solution to my Sake A7 rubber band man stock. I've called everywhere, no luck.

Makes me appreciate the concept of ubiquitous Rem 700's.

Alaskapopo

08-03-11, 04:08

Did some more shooting. Found the 168 grain AMAX bullet (got them cheap because they were factory seconds) shot well with 42 grains of N140.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/168grainAmax8-1-11.jpg
Forgive the photoshop but I wanted all the groups on one image.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/168grainAmax8-1-11.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Remington%20700%20Targets/FederalMatch8-1-11.jpg

Something weird happened my .55 moa load with Sierra's some how went to crap when I loaded up a 100 of them after the initial testing. I think it maybe my brass being trimmed to short. Not sure.
The groups were too ugly to show but it went from .55 moa on the first day to 1.35 moa. The AMAX bullets were loaded in Federal brass (once fired) vs the Sierra in older Hornady brass.

Forgot one thing. I do have one problem with the rifle it miss feeds the 3rd or 4th round pretty much every time. I have been shooting it as a single shot mostly and plan on getting a detachable mag system later but it is still a little annoying is there a easy fix. I have some stuff for sale trying afford a Vortex scope for now. The FFP 4-16x.
Pat
Pat

Eurodriver

08-03-11, 09:42

I have some stuff for sale trying afford a Vortex scope for now. The FFP 4-16x.
Pat
Pat

Just curious why not the 6-24x?

Alaskapopo

08-03-11, 13:33

Just curious why not the 6-24x?

Have not made my mind up totally yet. THrought the lower power range fit the .308 better.
Pat

Eurodriver

08-03-11, 16:27

Have not made my mind up totally yet. THrought the lower power range fit the .308 better.
Pat

I believe its a $50 price difference. I went ahead and got the FFP 6-24x, the clarity isn't Nightforce or S&B at that power level of course but its not bad at all. It also adds negligible weight as opposed to the 4-16x. I guess I went with that its better to get it and not need it than need it and not have it.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ebrehw.jpg

tuck

08-03-11, 17:00

Something weird happened my .55 moa load with Sierra's some how went to crap when I loaded up a 100 of them after the initial testing. I think it maybe my brass being trimmed to short. Not sure.
The groups were too ugly to show but it went from .55 moa on the first day to 1.35 moa. The AMAX bullets were loaded in Federal brass (once fired) vs the Sierra in older Hornady brass.

Forgot one thing. I do have one problem with the rifle it miss feeds the 3rd or 4th round pretty much every time.
Pat

When's the last time you've cleaned the bore? My SPS will start to open up like that with my pet load once the bore starts getting really fouled.

Mine also had the same feeding issue. I had to run a bunch of ammo through the magazine to get it to smooth out and feed more reliably. Also make sure you're not short stroking the bolt.

Alaskapopo

08-03-11, 17:21

When's the last time you've cleaned the bore? My SPS will start to open up like that with my pet load once the bore starts getting really fouled.

Mine also had the same feeding issue. I had to run a bunch of ammo through the magazine to get it to smooth out and feed more reliably. Also make sure you're not short stroking the bolt.

I clean it after I shoot it. It still shoots the other loads fine. Not sure whats up.
Pat

Alaskapopo

08-03-11, 17:21

I believe its a $50 price difference. I went ahead and got the FFP 6-24x, the clarity isn't Nightforce or S&B at that power level of course but its not bad at all. It also adds negligible weight as opposed to the 4-16x. I guess I went with that its better to get it and not need it than need it and not have it.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ebrehw.jpg

How does the clarity compare with Leopold?
Pat

tuck

08-03-11, 17:42

I clean it after I shoot it. It still shoots the other loads fine. Not sure whats up.
Pat

I'd pull apart one of your handloads then. Check the case length, powder charge, cartridge OAL... There's gotta be a variable somewhere.

Alaskapopo

08-03-11, 17:46

I'd pull apart one of your handloads then. Check the case length, powder charge, cartridge OAL... There's gotta be a variable somewhere.

Did that and case lenght was on the short side. I must have over trimmed my brass last time I ran them through the power trimer on my dillon. I have new brass on the way.
Pat

sgtbutt

08-03-11, 18:28

For my SPS-T I have been doing loads myself. I've pretty much got a load worked up for 168 SMKs, 168 A-MAXs and Hornday 165 BTSPs. What I did was load up 5 rounds with .5 grain increments of Varget and chronoed them. I would do about 25 rounds so with 5 different charge weights. Once I chronoed them I took a few things into consideration, I looked at group size and at the consistency of the MV of the charges. What I found was

42 grains of Varget for my SMKs for 2440 fps
44 grains of Varget for my A-Max for 2583 fps
and 43.5 grains of Varget my 165 SPBTs for 2560 fps

I will be doing more extensive testing of the SMK and A-MAX loads to reverify later on in the year but will be testing the the 165s pretty exclusively for the next two months or so. I want to know exactly where my round is at out to 500 yards to get ready for hunting season.

So far though I've been extremely impressed with my rifle. Handloads are yeidling sub MOA (excluding called fliers) groups from bipod and rear bag. For me that is awesome considering I'm looking at hitting about a 12 inch target that is known as Elk lungs and heart.

They're shooters and thats the main thing!

Eurodriver

08-04-11, 17:40

How does the clarity compare with Leopold?
Pat

I've never seen a Leupold go up to 24x but with Vortex on 10x I would say it is dead even with Leupold at 10x. I will try to get some pics. At 24x the glass is definitely clear, usable, bright, etc it just doesnt have that "sparkle" to it like it does at 10x.

I do not say this trying to "boost" Vortex in order to justify my own purchase, but I have read many reviews where Vortex glass is judged superior to Leupold.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2429/24xq.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4083/12xek.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6282/10184944.jpg

Top pic is 24x, middle is 12x, bottom is 6x (reticle is visible but didn't pick up in the picture. The window is at 150 yards. As you can see, the reticle at 24x is clear enough for use by far. I personally don't use it because I just got it and here in the summer time mirage makes anything over 12x fairly useless.

Alaskapopo

08-04-11, 18:06

I've never seen a Leupold go up to 24x but with Vortex on 10x I would say it is dead even with Leupold at 10x. I will try to get some pics. At 24x the glass is definitely clear, usable, bright, etc it just doesnt have that "sparkle" to it like it does at 10x.

I do not say this trying to "boost" Vortex in order to justify my own purchase, but I have read many reviews where Vortex glass is judged superior to Leupold.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2429/24xq.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4083/12xek.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6282/10184944.jpg

Top pic is 24x, middle is 12x, bottom is 6x (reticle is visible but didn't pick up in the picture. The window is at 150 yards. As you can see, the reticle at 24x is clear enough for use by far. I personally don't use it because I just got it and here in the summer time mirage makes anything over 12x fairly useless.

Thanks for the pics. Brownells offers a good LEO discount on Vortex optics and I am trying to decide between these two that they have in stock.
4-16x50 FFP Riflescope w/EBR-1 MOA Reticle
and the
4-16x50 Riflescope w/EBR=1 MOA Reticle
Mfr. Part: PST416S1A

The 6-24's are on back order.
pat

Littlelebowski

08-04-11, 18:17

Pat, let me know if you need the contact info of the mil/LE sales rep at US Optics. He's a good friend of mine and will not try to bullshit you.

Littlelebowski

08-04-11, 18:19

Have not made my mind up totally yet. THrought the lower power range fit the .308 better.
Pat

I agree with you. My brother had a Nightforce 5.5-20x on his AI AW at first and then ended up with 3.5-10x Leupold. He's an 8541 and 8542.

Alaskapopo

08-04-11, 19:48

Pat, let me know if you need the contact info of the mil/LE sales rep at US Optics. He's a good friend of mine and will not try to bullshit you.

They make great optics. I looked through a scope Eric Lund had designed the reticle on for them. Nice and crisp glass. Unfortunately I can't afford top tier glass for this rifle as of yet unless their LEO discount was beyond belief.
pat

orkan

08-04-11, 22:23

More USO scopes have shit the bed in my presence than any other top tier manufacturer. Not opinion... but fact. 4 so far. Don't go flaming me... its just point of fact. Now if you get one that works and continues to do so... they are great rifle scopes. Obviously their customer service is excellent as well.