View Full Version : DCEAK vs FSS
What differentiates the trigger pull characteristics, between the DCEAK and the FSS?
DCAEK:
Large amount of Pre Travel
No Over Travel.
Trigger bar engages the sear at the rear most point of its travel, about an 1/8th of an inch before the frame mounted trigger stop.
Crisp break with a slight roll to it.
5.0-5.5 pound pull with the DCAEK springs.
FSS Trigger
Very little pre travel, almost none.
No Over Travel.
Trigger bar engages the sear immediately and breaks shortly thereafter. Trigger bar is engaged about 3/8ths of an inch from the frame mounted trigger stop.
Crisp break with a slight roll to it.
3.5-4.0 pound pull with the included FSS springs (this may have changed as im not current on what springs Randy is including)
Hope this answers the question!
Yes. Thank you! I look forward to the carry version of the FSS.
DCAEK:
Large amount of Pre Travel
No Over Travel.
Trigger bar engages the sear at the rear most point of its travel, about an 1/8th of an inch before the frame mounted trigger stop.
Crisp break with a slight roll to it.
5.0-5.5 pound pull with the DCAEK springs.
FSS Trigger
Very little pre travel, almost none.
No Over Travel.
Trigger bar engages the sear immediately and breaks shortly thereafter. Trigger bar is engaged about 3/8ths of an inch from the frame mounted trigger stop.
Crisp break with a slight roll to it.
3.5-4.0 pound pull with the included FSS springs (this may have changed as im not current on what springs Randy is including)
Hope this answers the question!
Interesting. I was under the impression that there was a significant amount of over travel with the FSS. I could have sworn I read that here somewhere.
Whoever said that was confused.
There is no over travel with the FSS trigger kit.
With JUST the sear itself there is over travel if you do not do anything to remove it, ie weld your sear housing, install a trigger bar block etc.
I think one of the biggest disservices that ive done by writing some reviews here is that i was speaking about incomplete products. I had a T&E FSS way back before the trigger was even in the works. The FSS itself was designed to be used in conjunction with the trigger, not without.
I really do think we should stop referring to this thing as the FSS and call it the FST (Forward Sitting Trigger).
Whoever said that was confused.
There is no over travel with the FSS trigger kit.
With JUST the sear itself there is over travel if you do not do anything to remove it, ie weld your sear housing, install a trigger bar block etc.
I think one of the biggest disservices that ive done by writing some reviews here is that i was speaking about incomplete products. I had a T&E FSS way back before the trigger was even in the works. The FSS itself was designed to be used in conjunction with the trigger, not without.
I really do think we should stop referring to this thing as the FSS and call it the FST (Forward Sitting Trigger).
Ok thanks for the clarification. I've got it now. The FST came out just after I got the DCAEK. I kinda wish I had waited now.
If you get the FST, does it make all the other Apex parts moot/redundant? Or can/should you even combine other parts with the FST?
My situation is that I consistently hit ~1" low at 7-10 yds and ~2" low at 25 yds with my FS 9mm. I really believe this has to do with the actual trigger pull (creep) and overtravel. Would you say that the FST and/or other parts would help solve this problem?
A proper trigger press is a proper trigger press.
Gear will only help minimize things that generally cause issues such as excessive over travel which can cause the trigger to "rebound" off of the frame which results in the "dreaded front sight shake."
Regardless of this, like i mentioned before, a proper trigger press is a proper trigger press.
I do not think the FST is going to make your issue "better", i think it will probably alleviate it somewhat but this is masking an issue in your technique.
If you already have Apex parts you're probably not going to benefit from the FST as the FST features the same sear geometry as the standard Hard Sear, at least in regard to the break itself.
A proper trigger press is a proper trigger press.
Gear will only help minimize things that generally cause issues such as excessive over travel which can cause the trigger to "rebound" off of the frame which results in the "dreaded front sight shake."
Regardless of this, like i mentioned before, a proper trigger press is a proper trigger press.
I do not think the FST is going to make your issue "better", i think it will probably alleviate it somewhat but this is masking an issue in your technique.
If you already have Apex parts you're probably not going to benefit from the FST as the FST features the same sear geometry as the standard Hard Sear, at least in regard to the break itself.
Nope, everything is stock right now with about 3,000 rds through...I may be "driving the gun" too much causing the low POI, but even when I'm really conscious about it, it is still low for me. I plan to put another couple thousand through focusing on fundamentals before I decide to add anything.
Iron,
Have you had anyone else shoot the gun?
Could be an issue with your barrel in relation to your sights.
Is your issue strictly vertical stringing or a combination of vertical and lateral?
No its strictly vertical, and my groups aren't bad, just lower than my POI.
I'll throw in this story since it applies, about a week ago, I went to the range with a buddy who is a new shooter. We shot each others handguns at one point, my M&P9 and his XD40 (I know, I know). Since he is a new shooter, I don't trust the results on his end anyway, but he was hitting left (slapping the trigger) and I honestly don't recall if he was hitting low...but his groups were very sporadic so it was hard to tell. However, when I shot his XD40, I was hitting a 7/8" pastie on the money at 7 yds with no issues of low POI...
Regardless, I am going to put a couple thousand through before I make any changes, but this made me think that it wasn't my trigger press.
Yes. Thank you! I look forward to the carry version of the FSS.
Depending on what you PERSONALLY would require for a carry version, we have different spring kits that bring the trigger pull weight up to around 5LBS.
For me, 4.5-5 LBS is the perfect carry weight and have ZERO issues carry an M&P with this the FSS. Then again, I am a 1911 guy and am used to a 4LBS trigger. ;)
C4
Interesting. I was under the impression that there was a significant amount of over travel with the FSS. I could have sworn I read that here somewhere.
Almost none. The trigger bar is making contact with the sear almost immediately.
C4
If you get the FST, does it make all the other Apex parts moot/redundant? Or can/should you even combine other parts with the FST?
My situation is that I consistently hit ~1" low at 7-10 yds and ~2" low at 25 yds with my FS 9mm. I really believe this has to do with the actual trigger pull (creep) and overtravel. Would you say that the FST and/or other parts would help solve this problem?
With the FSS setup, you will replace your sear (no matter who made it), your striker block (no matter who made it), your trigger return spring (no matter who made it) and your sear plunger spring (no matter who made it).
The hinged, half moon trigger on the M&P does NOT do the shooter any favors. The straighter the trigger, the easier it is to pull the trigger straight to the rear.
The above does NOT mean that a good shooter cannot manipulate the stock M&P trigger well, it just means that it is going to be harder than a trigger that is more like that found on a 1911. This is where the FSS comes into play.
C4
Depending on what you PERSONALLY would require for a carry version, we have different spring kits that bring the trigger pull weight up to around 5LBS.
For me, 4.5-5 LBS is the perfect carry weight and have ZERO issues carry an M&P with this the FSS. Then again, I am a 1911 guy and am used to a 4LBS trigger. ;)
C4
5 to 5.5lbs is what i like on a carry pistol. I like some pre travel on the 1st pull. Basically a Glockish action, but a bit smoother would be nice.
Depending on what you PERSONALLY would require for a carry version, we have different spring kits that bring the trigger pull weight up to around 5LBS.
For me, 4.5-5 LBS is the perfect carry weight and have ZERO issues carry an M&P with this the FSS. Then again, I am a 1911 guy and am used to a 4LBS trigger. ;)
C4
If you can get the FSS up to 5 lbs, then im on board. I want the RAM as well.
If you can get the FSS up to 5 lbs, then im on board. I want the RAM as well.
Yep, sure can.
C4
Sounds good! I will call you as soon as i sell a pistol.
I have a number of Apex M&P's and have been so pleased with the results, that I consider the Apex DCAEK to be an essential upgrade to the M&P. I had a well-used M&P9 Pro with the PC sear, but never really liked the trigger. When the FSS & trigger kit came out, I thought what the hell and sent the pistol to Randy for installation of the kit, a RAM and an FRE. The pistol came back today and that trigger is a jaw-dropper. It takes up, breaks and resets like a 1911 trigger. I've been shooting FAST drills and speed stuff with M&P's all summer and I shot my fastest splits today. Randy called me while my pistol was on his bench, and we talked over the job, trigger weight, etc. Lisa very patiently spent several phone calls walking me through the details of all the Apex parts; just outstanding customer service. If you're shooting matches with an M&P, you need to check out this trigger.
Depending on what you PERSONALLY would require for a carry version, we have different spring kits that bring the trigger pull weight up to around 5LBS.
For me, 4.5-5 LBS is the perfect carry weight and have ZERO issues carry an M&P with this the FSS. Then again, I am a 1911 guy and am used to a 4LBS trigger. ;)
C4
Curious, do you have a thumb safety on your pistol?
If so, is it more for consistency w/ the 1911 platform, more for safety, other?
I don't have a dog in this fight either way, just curious.
Curious, do you have a thumb safety on your pistol?
If so, is it more for consistency w/ the 1911 platform, more for safety, other?
I don't have a dog in this fight either way, just curious.
No, I am against TS's and if I could remove them from a 1911, I would.
C4
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