View Full Version : Looks like Midwest reinvented the wheel!
Anchor Zero Six
07-27-11, 11:58
IMO not a bad thing in this instance...
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421
Larue discontinued the AK Iron Dot mount but this looks to be fundamentaly the same thing but with more options for different optics.
Awesome. I'll have one of these, maybe more. I wanted one of the LaRues, but I never could find one.
Anchor Zero Six
07-27-11, 12:16
I hear you I'm in the same boat wanting Iron Dot couldnt find one. As luck would have it theres an Irondot w/ sight in the FS section here I found right after posting this lol.
StormWerkz
07-27-11, 17:18
I see Attero Arms also makes their version
http://atteroarms.com/products.html
That's a find. I was thinking about spending close to $150 for a mount for my saiga, now I can get one for my saiga and one for my draco for near that price.
Damn if that isn't interesting.
Wow, that looks pretty tempting. Now I'm contemplating an RMR set up.
Do you guys think that something like this mount is a better alternative to something like the TWS receiver cover with the rail?
Pretty sweet...
Would be interesting to know how these will hold up longterm/durability.
militarymoron
07-28-11, 09:13
just be aware that if you want to use this with a burris fastfire, that the rear sight can block some of the light reaching the auto sensor on the front of the burris, making the dot darker in some situations. i found this out with the LaRue AK irondot setup. great for outdoors with a lot of ambient light, but the dot can disappear if you're indoors looking out.
as long as the light sensor isn't in the front like the docter and fastfire (or you can manually set brightness) it's not an issue.
KalashniKEV
07-28-11, 10:18
Very cool...
I'm interested in seeing one in person though, I think the Dogleg option might be more durable overall, but is the "diving board" style mount less susceptible to movement than one that is built into the top cover?
Experimentation is required. ;)
Anchor Zero Six
07-28-11, 13:52
Spoke with MI and "they said" they have beat them up pretty good with no issues. Not to be an ass hat but I doubt they would tell a customer it was anything but the bees knees.
Went ahead and ordered one so I'll do a report when it arrives.
As a side not they were very pleasant to tt on the phone and adressed all my questions, also offer a Mil/LE discount if you guys didnt already know.
A06
Moose-Knuckle
07-28-11, 14:12
Alright, so who is going to pony up and buy one to beat the shit out of so the rest of us know if it's GTG or not?
TriumphRat675
07-28-11, 14:34
I might. I've never been really happy with my ultimak/micro set-up. A real test will have to wait for a while though - need to get my SLR-107CR's barrel cut now that I got my tax stamp back :D.
Anchor Zero Six
07-28-11, 14:46
Read the post above yours, just ordered one will report when it arrives.
As for beatting the shit out of it, less concerned about the mount for 75 bucks than I am my Arsenal. So if anybody has a cheap AK they want to donate I'll wring it out and see what happens ;) Plan to give it a fair once over but no plans to drop it optic first from my second story roof.
Spoke with MI about how it attaches; it mounts into the sight housing in the same manner as the original sight then its clampped to the trunnion with the allen screws on the side. They said the width of the mount is as maximum as possible while still being able to fit the vast variations of AK's. There is also the ability to adjust the rear iron sight for windage and center it. This will need to be done prior to mounting the optic to the mount as its locked into position with a set screw if using a T-1 as I think the mounting holes go in from the bottom. I will be using an RMR so all I need to do is set up the iron sights then mount the optic.
Read the post above yours, just ordered one will report when it arrives.
As for beatting the shit out of it, less concerned about the mount for 75 bucks than I am my Arsenal. So if anybody has a cheap AK they want to donate I'll wring it out and see what happens ;) Plan to give it a fair once over but no plans to drop it optic first from my second story roof.
Spoke with MI about how it attaches; it mounts into the sight housing in the same manner as the original sight then its clampped to the trunnion with the allen screws on the side. They said the width of the mount is as maximum as possible while still being able to fit the vast variations of AK's. There is also the ability to adjust the rear iron sight for windage and center it. This will need to be done prior to mounting the optic to the mount as its locked into position with a set screw if using a T-1 as I think the mounting holes go in from the bottom. I will be using an RMR so all I need to do is set up the iron sights then mount the optic.
Looking forward to your report. What optic are you going to use?
These look interesting, but I'm a conservative sonofabitch when it comes to things like this. I know MI does quality work....but I will absolutely let someone else take one for the team first. :dirol:
Anchor Zero Six
07-28-11, 15:57
LOL not the first grenade I jumpped on but we are not talking about Thailand so those stories can wait.
Plan to put a Trij RMR Dual (7MOA) on it. I know straying from the std AK config with the RMR vice T-1 and admit the 7MOA dot is a bit on the large size but my rational is that it will compensate in part for it not being as bright as the T-1. Removing the Trit front sight and plan to install a smaller KNS front, logic being with lower 1/3 cowitness I can rely on the irons for smaller targets at distance. With a 100yd zero on the iron sights I can hold over for 2-300 as there is no way to easily/quickly adjust the elevation on the mount. Dont think I mentioned previously its adjustable for elevation but it (rear sight) is.
KalashniKEV
07-28-11, 15:59
As for beatting the shit out of it, less concerned about the mount for 75 bucks than I am my Arsenal. So if anybody has a cheap AK they want to donate I'll wring it out and see what happens ;)
I've got a cheap, beater AK we can drop from altitude... if you want to send me the mount and the RMR and I'll wring it out for you.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/AKSBR.jpg
;)
(Actually, what I really need are adequate facilities...)
Moose-Knuckle
07-28-11, 16:38
Read the post above yours, just ordered one will report when it arrives.
As for beatting the shit out of it, less concerned about the mount for 75 bucks than I am my Arsenal. So if anybody has a cheap AK they want to donate I'll wring it out and see what happens ;) Plan to give it a fair once over but no plans to drop it optic first from my second story roof.
Spoke with MI about how it attaches; it mounts into the sight housing in the same manner as the original sight then its clampped to the trunnion with the allen screws on the side. They said the width of the mount is as maximum as possible while still being able to fit the vast variations of AK's. There is also the ability to adjust the rear iron sight for windage and center it. This will need to be done prior to mounting the optic to the mount as its locked into position with a set screw if using a T-1 as I think the mounting holes go in from the bottom. I will be using an RMR so all I need to do is set up the iron sights then mount the optic.
Didn't see your original post when I submitted mine. I look forward to your review.
I might. I've never been really happy with my ultimak/micro set-up. A real test will have to wait for a while though - need to get my SLR-107CR's barrel cut now that I got my tax stamp back :D.
What don't you like about it? I haven't found anything else on the market that is as good as the UM/T1 combo.
I'm generally not a fan of MI stuff but this looks interesting. :cool:
TriumphRat675
07-28-11, 17:40
What don't you like about it? I haven't found anything else on the market that is as good as the UM/T1 combo.
When I first installed it I had trouble with the mounting screw backing out. Before I figured out that was the problem I spent some frustrating time chasing my zero all over the target.
I smartened up and loc-tited the screw but I haven't spent enough time with the rifle after that to feel 100% about it. I know others are very happy with theirs.
Short answer: no real good reason, it's just one of those things that sits in the back of my mind and bugs me. So I'm always in the market for another solution.
What don't you like about it? I haven't found anything else on the market that is as good as the UM/T1 combo.
I'm generally not a fan of MI stuff but this looks interesting. :cool:
Not who your directing your question to, but I'll throw an unsolicited opinion into the ring. First off, I really like the UM/T1 set up. That is what I currently run on my AK. Works great. The reason I'm considering going to this is to keep the sight cooler. I've gotten the T1 so hot on the UM, that I could hardly hold a finger to it. While the T1 shrugged off those conditions just fine, I don't believe it to be a healthy operating envirionment for the sight to be repeatedly subjected to.
Anchor Zero Six
07-29-11, 22:24
I was running the Ultimak with an RMR and it caused my vagina to fill with sand.
Figured someone would say it so I may as well beat them to the punch, but my issue is that I burned the hell out of myself twice to the point of raised blister and charred smell.
It seems to be a given that you need to wear a glove but my opinion is of all the guns I own and have owned accessory apparel wasnt required so why should this one be different. I switched back to the Arsenal top handguard and gas tube and ran the same amount of rounds at the same rate of fire. Yes it too gets uncomfortably warm but the plastic dosnt cause physical burns like the metal ultimak did. Obvious issue is now how do I mount an optic and the MI mount looks to be it. If it turns out to suck I'll try something else but overall I'm a big time AK convert and as newb to AK's I expected some trial and error in the configuration.
StormWerkz
07-29-11, 23:17
What keeps the mount from flipping up, the factory sight leaf spring?
Are the 2 button head cap screws just to lock the windage?
Anchor Zero Six
07-29-11, 23:54
The two button head screws keep it from flipping up. For lack of better description the rear trunnion rails that the elevation drum on the stock sight rides across is what the mount is clampped to. Basicly it sandwiches the trunion between the mount and the screw.
Windage is adjustable via a dovetail and set screw thingy (technical term).
the problem I am seeing is that is this not just the LaRue setup again?
So ergo, as long as you don't venture into the using of a Burris fastfire, it should run fine.
But I am wondering if the LaRue used a fastfire I or II
Anchor Zero Six
08-05-11, 20:44
Well the RMR showed up today, not the one described as the one that arrived has a 9MOA dot which is entirly too big. I knew I was pushing it with a 7MOA but 9 just seems plain stupid on a rifle.
I was hoping to be able to post pics and a review of this set up this weekend but the MI mount has yet to arrive. Ordered on the 28th and thats the same date my statment shows the charge was made. I didnt receive an emailed invoice and assuming it shipped the 29th it should have arrived on the 2nd or 3rd based on the 4 days UPS projects delivery from their zip to mine.
So far their execution of shipping leaves a bit to be desired. Taking it with a grain of salt that there are some flooding issues with UPS right now in IA which is probably the distro hub it was sent to...at least thats what I'm telling myself to keep a positive attitude.
Trijicon RM06, 3.25MOA, adjustable LED
http://i55.tinypic.com/2drdjlg.jpg
There's some issues I had with installation of those button screws on the side. On my gun, they hardly even touch the edge of the sight base. In fact several times while tightening, they went right up and over the edge. I couldn't lower the MI unit anymore or the optic base would be hitting the top cover.
I took a lot of photos during installation. There were a few more issues I had with it, but they can be discussed in another thread. The first review I've ever seen on this new MI mount was posted yesterday on theAKforum.net, and that guy wasn't too happy.
First test firing and sighting in will be this weekend.
Trijicon RM06, 3.25MOA, adjustable LED
http://i55.tinypic.com/2drdjlg.jpg
There's some issues I had with installation of those button screws on the side. On my gun, they hardly even touch the edge of the sight base. In fact several times while tightening, they went right up and over the edge. I couldn't lower the MI unit anymore or the optic base would be hitting the top cover.
This was perhaps the first thing that jumped out at me when looking at the photos on the MI website.
I've seen a lot (relatively speaking) variation in the sight area on AK's, with some having less "clamping" area than others.
On the photo you posted, it looks like a decent knock to the sight would overcome those screws and the sight would just be free to pivot. You'd then be forced to loosen the screws, reposition things, and tighten them back down.
It looks like MI really need to develop a new clamping mechanism.
Anchor Zero Six
08-06-11, 00:46
Well that sucks! Guess I'll be exchanging it whenever it arrives.
MilitaryArms
08-06-11, 09:22
I just received one that I will be reviewing.
40calfragout
08-08-11, 10:46
this looks like it might be a better option to me and it gives you the option to mount any optic you wish to. also it looks like these guys mitigated the need for set screws to insure the mount stays in place. http://www.parabellumarmament.com/pasite/akarshome.htm
Anchor Zero Six
08-08-11, 11:17
TWS came out with this a while ago http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html
Its an option but I think most were looking for a modernized version of the AK Irondot.
Anchor Zero Six
08-09-11, 10:17
Unit arrived last night. My dog blew an ass gasket all over the white carpet so I was steam cleanning most of the night but I did have a chance to mount it and mess around a little before calling it a night.
First impression is that the unit is well made with really nice machine work.
The mount actually fit my Arsenal SGL-21 as advertised! I was seriously on the verge of not even opening the package and just sending it back based on the two reviews that are out there.
Like I said it fit my Russian AK just fine but I will say that since it dosnt seem to be a universal fit of all AK variants thats kind of a pooch screwer. My buddy has a Draco I'm going to see if it fits that this weekend.
Ithe button head screws seem to hold it onto the trunnion pretty secure enough so that I was able to hold the rifle by the sight (RMR dual) and was unable to shake the mount free from the trunnion. Too early to tell how it will hold up under intense use so this will be an ongoing review. Tonight I want to try the same process but with a loaded 30 round mag in the well to see if the added weight does anything.
As far as a lower 3rd cowitness...not happening with the dual rmr. Its almost an absolute cowitness which for my set up is not what I wanted. I was planning on being able to use the iron sights for distance shooting but with the dot being always on I cant really use the irons at all. If I were using an LED RMR or something like a T1 it would be usefull but I cant imagine the dual rmr going out. I suppose if the projector aperature were obscured with snow mud etc the buis would come into play.
This weekend will try to get some rounds out with the mount and see how it holds up. If it dosnt work as advertised I have figured out a solution which would work but it will require drilling the trunnion. I think this is why Larue ditched the AK Irondot, seems like a PITA to make a mount that will fit EVERY variant of AK.
I'm going to give the folks at MI a call and make some redesign suggestions that I think would work better for being a universal fit without modifications.
More to follow
A06
Anchor Zero Six
08-09-11, 14:12
Just got off the phone with MI...great conversation. They said that the mount is now known to not work with the SLR-106 (.223). Otherwise they have tried it on a wide sampling of AK's and its worked so if it dosnt work on your specific rifle give them a call and let them know.
As for the cowitness issues they have only mounted the mount to stock configured rifles so if you are running an ACE (like me) the cowitness will change.
I was able to hold the rifle by the sight (RMR dual) and was unable to shake the mount free from the trunnion.
That's fantastic, I'm glad it worked for you. MI is great to deal with for customer service. Definitely post an update later with photos, however I'd suggest a new thread so people using a search engine can find your review. I don't think many will discover info in a topic titled "Midwest reinvented the wheel"...
Looking at my Draco and my Polish underfolder, the Draco seems to have a more concave 'rim' to the rear sight block, i.e. less materiel for the screws of this mount to grip. Without having one in hand, it's hard to say which would work and which wouldn't, but my money would be on the Polish working fine and the Draco being SOL. This irks me, as the Draco is what I really wanted to put this on, once I get it SBR'd.
Looking at my Draco and my Polish underfolder, the Draco seems to have a more concave 'rim' to the rear sight block, i.e. less materiel for the screws of this mount to grip. Without having one in hand, it's hard to say which would work and which wouldn't, but my money would be on the Polish working fine and the Draco being SOL. This irks me, as the Draco is what I really wanted to put this on, once I get it SBR'd.
I agree with you. I wanted one for my Draco. Hope someone out there tests it on the Draco and lets us know.
Anchor Zero Six
08-10-11, 19:40
I'll put it on a draco sometime in the next coupple of days. Saw on AR15.com a guy has one mounted on a Draco SBR.
As for my review it will be postponed, sent back the RMR as the one that arrived had a 9MOA dot which was not what I ordered. So for now I'm without glass.
Midwest Industries
08-11-11, 09:03
We have come up with a improvent to the steel base. We now have added a screw and a pin to keep the whole set up torqued down and to keep it from flipping up. If anyone has a MDM and would like a improved base please call customer service at the shop and we will send you out a improved base . The new bases are running right now and will be in all future product.
Midwest Ind 262-896-6780
Thank you
TROY
MI
We have come up with a improvent to the steel base. We now have added a screw and a pin to keep the whole set up torqued down and to keep it from flipping up. If anyone has a MDM and would like a improved base please call customer service at the shop and we will send you out a improved base . The new bases are running right now and will be in all future product.
Nice. Got any pics of the new setup?
I have to say, MI seems to have a good record of customer service. I know you all took care of me beyond what I would have expected. Keep up the good work!
I'll put it on a draco sometime in the next coupple of days. Saw on AR15.com a guy has one mounted on a Draco SBR.
As for my review it will be postponed, sent back the RMR as the one that arrived had a 9MOA dot which was not what I ordered. So for now I'm without glass.
Thanks Anchor. BTW, I am following the other thread on ARF.com
Hopefully Military Arms channel will do a nice video on them.
You ought to incorporate an aperture sight behind the base.
I am curious to see the reviews of this product. I was very interested in the Iron Dot and we know how that ended up. I am leery of a mount utilizing the rear sight attachment as it seems vulnerable. I was looking to try the RS Products side mount on my Arsenal but will hold off to see how you guys like the MI.
Anchor Zero Six
08-12-11, 10:16
DWood,
Based off of conversations with Troy at MI I think the redesign of this mount will be a game changer. I previously said I think the mount as it is is pretty stable on my Saiga but I think given enough leverage it could be pryed off.
The redesign sounds like it will adress what I think is the only real shortfall with this style of mount. Unlike the Larue and the other similar mount (forgot the name) this new version will be anchored down so that there will be no way for it to flop around.
I'm looking forward to getting the updated mount and running it through its paces.
Midwest Industries
08-22-11, 12:46
Replacement (upgraded) bases will be going out tomorrow.
thank you
TROY
MI
waiting for pictures of this setup, looks to be nicely made
Anchor Zero Six
08-22-11, 13:35
Replacement (upgraded) bases will be going out tomorrow.
thank you
TROY
MI
Looking forward to getting mine :)
Replacement (upgraded) bases will be going out tomorrow.
thank you
TROY
MI
Do you have any pics our info about the changes? This is still the leading candidate for my Draco SBR build if the updated mount resolves the issues.
Midwest Industries
08-23-11, 06:25
I will be sending one out to the photographer for the web site. If you need a simple picture right away call me and i will take one for you. my picture posting ability is challenged for the boards .
thanks
TROY
MI
troy@midwestindustriesinc.com
Since the Micro version is out of stock, I can wait for pics :)
I appreciate the offer though. Really looking forward to this one.
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