View Full Version : Let's discuss specialty ammo(.223/5.56)
Hi guys, I've always wanted to explore some of the 5.56 specialty loads like tracers, starburst/spotter, etc., so to start off with I just ordered a little xm856 while ordering some normal type of ammo. I plan to shoot these federal tactical tracers LR on steel and capture their bullet trace. Does anyone know how long they stay lit for? My understanding is that they take about 100yds to light up.
Anyway, if you have some experience using XM856 or any similar specialty type ammo made for the .223/5.56 I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion on it. Thanks in advance:)
Beat Trash
07-27-11, 14:53
Be careful where you are shooting tracers. They've been known to start fires when the conditions are dry.
Baedarlboo
07-27-11, 16:54
This would be interesting to see...
...Does anyone know how long they stay lit for?
Based on my experience, well over 500 meters.
Be careful where you are shooting tracers. They've been known to start fires when the conditions are dry.
Indeed, esp. in the summertime in AL....check out where I'm shooting them at.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00725-1.jpg
Bullet trace: MRP Recce w. Barnes 55gr. TSX @ 605yds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPmcguJ4GY)
Frailer...thanks, I will prob. cap it off a 600yds, I want to get as much ricochet effect off the steel as possible while the rd. is still lit.
eta...
More things to discuss...
1.) what other types of specialty ammo is avail. besides the tracers and starburst rds..
2.) anybody else make good 5.56 tracer rds. besides Federal? Ive seen another brand at ammunitiontogo.com that were more expensive but supposedly lit up right away when leaving the barrel.
I was getting burnout at around 700 yards a couple of months ago with the Federal red box stuff. Tracer does weird stuff, shoot in a safe spot.
I was getting burnout at around 700 yards a couple of months ago with the Federal red box stuff. Tracer does weird stuff, shoot in a safe spot.
That sounds about right. I've launched 3 round bursts over open range and they appear to burn out about where you stated.
I'm thinking these rds. should be badass to bullet trace about 2hr. prior to dark at a range b/t 500-600yds...perfect mix of light for the actual bullet trace or air disturbance...and then plenty of "darkness" for the actual trace effect to show up.
I know the rds. are not popular at the local carbine classes and such but if you don't think tracer's are cool, than you might just be Michelle Bachman's husband:eek::D
Tracers are a lot of fun, but you have to be more carefull than you think. Last September here in Utah there was a fire that started during training on the machine gun range at Camp Williams. By the time it was fully contained over 4,000 acres had burned and I think three houses were destroyed. At one point about 1600 homes near Camp Williams had to be evacuated. When things go wrong, they go very wrong!
Ok gents, were all grown ups here...three safety warnings is perhaps enough:)
I'm not sure how much safer I can be than shooting them over a body of water in the particular setup I'm going to be shooting them in....I posted the video and pic to avoid the firestarter accusations.
Anyway, I might try and shoot em this evening.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01225-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01217-1.jpg
...Ive seen another brand at ammunitiontogo.com that were more expensive but supposedly lit up right away when leaving the barrel.
My most recent experience with M856 was on a 2-way range, and I was focusing on things other than when the SAW gunner's rounds were "lighting up," but I remember seeing red tracers, and the bad guys were closer than 100 meters (and, thankfully, inept at setting up an ambush)...FWIW.
In any case, I'd be interested in seeing your results.
Sorry Trident.;) Me, I'm just worried what they do after hitting steel.
Can't wait for the results, could be pretty. Are/did you video?
Don't go to bed yet ladies,...I'm uploading that beautiful bean footage in HD as I type.
Cpl. things......one, I need to stop getting so excited over cool shit when it happens and maintain my composure throughout the shooting session. Some shit is just to much fun to not be a two pump chump....so yes, I had some performance issues w. this WILDLY INACCURATE xm856 through the box I shot:p
I saw enough to know that it's a green light in terms of grabbing another 100 or 200 of these tracers. I will bring em home at least somewhat next time as I will specifically zero the gun and such for em.
Secondly, last damn time I ever shoot on these damn hill sides at inclines...I'm mad at myself for not readjusting my FFP so that I could take my time and rear bag the gun and just overall bed it better. Again, I just wanted to shoot the damn gun w. the damn tracers...that I did damn well!!!)
Baedarlboo
07-28-11, 21:22
LOL now i'm sitting here just waiting on the vids! :ph34r:
No safety lesson, but, I told you they do weird things.;)
Waiting for vid. Thanks for the troubles.
.
I have shot maybe 3 boxes. I went from a 3" 100-yard group with green tip LC to like a 12" group with the Federal Tracers.
I was watching real close as a friend shot them. They didn't seem to fly right. They kind of had a goofy arch with a little left to right flight....if I had to describe it better, I'd say it was like some kind of "knuckle-ball" path through the air.
Since the ones we were shooting were steel-core (as they probably all are?) and weighed 64g, I assumed they had 2g of powder (pyro-whatever) on the butt-end of a 62g steel-core bullet and that the 2g of pyro burned away in flight making the bullet lighter as it traveled, which I'm sure doesn't help accuracy.
But maybe it's just me...
.
^^ oh yeah, these little rockets don't seem to have a pilot behind the wheel^^
Lot's, lot's of refinement to do with this process gents, so bear with me as this was the very first attempt:)
Shooting tracers(xm856) @ 640yds w/ a MRP SPR.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLR3xfCp4Co)
Might still be processing but that only take a few minutes.
eta...obligatory pic featuring the shitty conditions I had to shoot in this afternoon:D
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/SANY1171-1.jpg
.
Thanks for the video. Very nice place to shoot...you are fortunate.
You could see a few of the bullets weren't on the same path as some of the others...unless you're just a terrible shot?? ;)
I guess tracer groups aren't measured in MOA's, they use MOT (minute of tanks)?
.
m1a_scoutguy
07-29-11, 00:43
Trident,,,that is just frickin COOL !!!! What a awesome setup,,,,you suck & I hate you !!!!!!;);):D In the next to last camera angle,,,I was seeing the Tracer over half way to the target before I heard the sound,,that was kinda cool,,but we all know sound is a tad slooow anyways !!! I will have to watch again,,,I never did see the tracer in the last grouping !!! Your a luck guy to have such a great place to shoot !!! I have a bunch of 30/06 Tracers,,,,I'll have to come down there with one of my M1s and see if I can even hit the steel !!! They sure lite up nice though,,I shot a bunch up at huntin Camp last year,,tons of fun !!! Keep us posted on any further reports !!!!!! :)
I'm glad you guys liked it, I really just got out there and went through all my setting up....only to go bonkers once I was behind the actual trigger.
Those first three shots were just przi 55gr. fmjbt to establish a base line of accuracy before firing 15 of the tracers. That stuff is at best 2-3moa and it usually makes the mark. These xm856's are like playing "stranger" if you know what I mean:D
The bullet trace was all screwed up, but now I know how to make this work next time I believe.
If you notice the last cam shot cut off very shortly...that was because you couldn't see anything(tracer effect) from that angle...other videos depict the same thing. Also only 2 of the cam's had true 1080p, with the other two being damn near prehistoric relics rather than P N' S cam's.
^^ oh yeah, these little rockets don't seem to have a pilot behind the wheel^^
They sure don't. WOW!
We know you can shoot for sure. The variations in POI on those rounds are stunning. I wonder if reguler GI tracers that aren't XM856 are just as inconsistent.. :confused:
Wonder if the changing mass of the projectile as it is travelling contributes to the accuracy issue.
m1a_scoutguy
07-29-11, 10:45
Wonder if the changing mass of the projectile as it is traveling contributes to the accuracy issue.
Hmmmm,,that is a possibility !!! I have a bunch of Tracer Projectiles,(223),maybe I will load some up and see what kind of accuracy I can get out of them !! I unfortunately don't have a place that I can shoot 600+++ yards at,,but I will check them just the same and get back to ya !! Again,,,cool info !!! :)
Yep thats why you load your mag or belt with one tracer every 4/5 rounds! They are known to be very inaccurate and are use to get you on target with good bullets!:D
Yeah they would have worked perfectly if say I had a 30 rd mag w/ 1 every 3 or 4 rds, and a 1x RDS topped carbine trying to engage a target at that same 640yds away. The tracers would be verifying that I was "peppering" the correct area. I say this because on all the 1x cam views, the tracers appear to be going directly at and landing very near the actual target.
I think most importantly is that I am shooting a mass produced 64gr. FMJ type projectile @ almost 650yds. Every little flaw in the ammo, the shooter, and the rifle become crystal clear past 600yds in my expierence which is why it's such a great challenge to do.
Look at HOW LONG these xm856 projectiles are...
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=26522
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=26523
(wolfganggross's cutaway pics)
Think the 856 is bad out of a 1/7? I've shot some in 1/12s and its just a crap show.
It's on like f**king Donkey Kong in T minus 1hr....:D:cool:
Stay tuned for some tracer action from the little guy.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01356-1.jpg
Very cool shit Trident!! Man, those things are flying all over the place. I had to laugh as a couple of those rounds splashed into the water......short! Fun stuff. So... No damage to the bore when shooting this stuff correct?? If so, I may have to get some. More videos please.
BTW, nice range, I wish I had a place like that to go the distance.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-22-11, 14:37
It looks like about the safest place to be when someone is shooting these things is where ever they are aiming. I can't believe not one of those 15 hit the target. One came close but no cigar; another looked like it went about fifteen feet high and left.
Very nice quality vids as always Trident - thanks!
That's kind of how it goes with tracer....precision ammo it ain't! Considering the distance though, that accuracy isn't really that bad for that type of ammo - certainly good enough for the intended purpose of marking a target for the rest of a squad or for keeping full auto suppressive fire on with a 1:5 mix.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-23-11, 10:10
Trident, with all this tracer ammo you have on hand now it looks like the only intelligent thing to do would be to buy an HK23.
Thanks guys, I have one last video to make and then I'm gonna put together all the good footage I have captured to date into one single clip.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot38-21-20119-49AM-2.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot48-21-20119-49AM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot128-21-20119-56AM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot178-21-201110-00AM-1.png
Banging CMP steel @ 893yds with 25x/60x trace.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUjaYAxUYfY)
Goodtimes, I was thinking the only intelligent thing to do at this point with these tracers was to buy a propane tank for one reason or another:eek:
Great video, and nice shooting.
Nice video. That is wild seeing them out past 500/600 yds. Since we normally get obsessive about bullet design and uniformity for shooting that far accurately I can imagine sticking tracer compound on the tail would throw that off!~
Thanks, here is the second video I made that's waiting to be edited into a main one. For the safety folks...I literally went out after a afternoon thunderstorm that def. saturated the entire area I was shooting in...not to mention 99% of all the rds. traced completely out prior to impacting the ground.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00175-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00176-1.jpg
Tracers.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIHbdO-ofQY)
You are having way too much fun! Stop it. I envy you have that much room to shoot so far. Your own property? That is very nice set up.
Baedarlboo
08-23-11, 20:26
That's some cool footage! :neo:
Hi guys, I've always wanted to explore some of the 5.56 specialty loads like tracers, starburst/spotter, etc., so to start off with I just ordered a little xm856 while ordering some normal type of ammo. I plan to shoot these federal tactical tracers LR on steel and capture their bullet trace. Does anyone know how long they stay lit for? My understanding is that they take about 100yds to light up.
Anyway, if you have some experience using XM856 or any similar specialty type ammo made for the .223/5.56 I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion on it. Thanks in advance:)
The strontium nitrate composition ignites shortly after leaving the barrel. while travelling down the bore the base of the bullet is super-heated, but there is no oxygen present. Once the bullet leaves the bore, the super-heated strontium nitrate is exposed to air and it ignites. M856 will burn fairly consistently to 900m.
rogers0317
08-28-11, 16:41
The Marine Corps SSOT rounds work really well from what Ive seen. Seemed to have better terminal effects then 77 grain match ammo.
The strontium nitrate composition ignites shortly after leaving the barrel. while travelling down the bore the base of the bullet is super-heated, but there is no oxygen present. Once the bullet leaves the bore, the super-heated strontium nitrate is exposed to air and it ignites. M856 will burn fairly consistently to 900m.
Great explanation, and after 145rds fired thus far I can say your correct in the 900m as noted in a lot of the shots in the video's Ive made thus far.
Tracers impacting on CMP steel target @ 550yds viewed in 60x (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUJLTUV-Vyc)
8/9 frames of bullet flight from the tracer during the 550yds traveled including the moment of impact....
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot18-28-20115-02PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot28-28-20115-02PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot38-28-20115-02PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot48-28-20115-02PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot58-28-20115-03PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot68-28-20115-03PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot78-28-20115-04PM-1.png
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/Snapshot28-27-201112-21AM-1.png
rogers0317
08-28-11, 17:37
Awesome pictures!
Thanks pal, I play the numbers game and occasional get lucky with a nice pic or two...the whole blind squirrel finding a nut thing:)
So let's get done to some more business...cpl. things in this newest video and range outing with these xm856s.
1.) on the last camera setup or the last 1min of the video(total of 4 different cams...1x, 10x, 25x, and 60x) note how the tracers just appear after that 100 yds or so they take to light up....this was the first time I caught footage that illustrates this property quite clearly, just gotta kinda watch for it or view it multiple times.
2.) Sadly I buy 100% factory loaded ammo, and while I cannot roll my own, I make a good effort at trying just about every commercially avail. factory loaded ammo being made. So with that said, I'm pretty confident that I have not personally shot a .223/5.56 load that packs the punch these xm856s do on the steel. At 500 and 600yds now, its quite impressive to see how these 64gr. projectiles are smacking the shit outta that 21lb AR500 3/8" steel target and making it sometimes do a full 360 rotation upon impact. These little rds have some nice recoil as well as illustrated at the very beginning of the video or the 720pHD 1x cam. I noted this today for the first time since I went lightly supported w/o the bipod or rear bag with my Recce for practice purposes. In summery these are HOT little rds. for damn sure!
3.) An adjunct to point number two, these rds actually sheered my supposedly unbreakable graded carriage bolt(forgot the term for the hardness of bolts and such) after taking a pinpoint direct hit on the bolt head as also depicted in the footage. If you decide to view the footage, see if you can distinguish which is louder, the Recce going bang...or that tracer smacking the shit outta that steel several seconds later:cool:.
In conclusion, the lesson for today was the simple fact that these pack one helluva punch, perhaps generate more recoil than Ive ever felt on any other 5.56 round, and without question they make my steel target say "uncle" every time one lands home.
P.S. This is still easily the most inaccurate round I have shot...they give a whole new meaning to the term "stranger".
The Youtubage...
Tracers...MRP Recce on steel @ 507yds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL0rtWcZ8Hw)
The Locale...
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00509-1.jpg
The Tool...
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00520-1.jpg
The Target(with sheered bolt)...
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00550-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC00554.jpg
At the risk of totally hijacking another thread, I figure I should put this information where it belongs anyway and raise this thread from the dead:)
Recent Tracer only video....
The "Ultimate Stranger"..... XM856 on crack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yjy2V32Ums&feature=youtube_gdata)
Now for the most recent video and pics.
Footage:
Manually igniting XM856 tracers.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnpljSobocM&feature=youtube_gdata)
Before:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01976-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01979-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01987-1.jpg
After:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01999-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02004-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02014-1.jpg
video is officially live and GTG:)
Ferris2son
11-19-11, 19:33
That is too cool. I still think you're crazy.:no:
Crazy like a Fox...:laugh:
I won't lie, I jumped like a little schoolgirl after I touched off that first one:D
The first one of those we touched off in our tent at 3AM had roughly the same effect, but drew the attention of a Captain. Very funny.
I'm wondering what sort of variation there is on the burn times and intensities. I'm sure the powder amounts are pretty consistent (to deliver a bullet weight), but burn speeds should be affecting how long it takes for them to burn out as well as how much artificial yaw is imparted on the round as it flies.
Yeah I would love to know that information as well. How precisely is the tracing compound calculated and then applied within the projectiles. I will say that even though they are super inaccurate, the actual tracing effect from them is really pretty dead nuts reliable so far in my usage. Thus far I have finished off 14 boxes(280rds) of them and every single one of them at least went bang, and every single one of them had very vivid tracing.
This might be very easily answered by someone else here, however a wonderment of mine is how exactly does it have a delayed fuse?....as in they won't light up til about 100yds. A.) I can't really see how they don't get lit up by the huge explosion that occurs directly behind their base. B.) Once you get past that, how do they then generate the needed heat in order to spur the chemical reaction that is the Tracer effect. In my video, you can't see even the smallest of delay in between the time that you have nothing occurring and then the time that it just goes off like a bull in a china shop. Granted a bullet covers a 100yds so quickly.
I was going to update this thread a week or two ago when I received my first few boxes of XM62 Tactical Long Range Tracers that I ordered shortly after buying my MWS but figured I would wait til I had a video and a real update in order to raise this thread from the dead. So I will be adding quite a bit more to this discussion and thread once I start making the MWS earn it.
One of my favorite aspects to these rounds now is that when you're trying to shoot them at long distances, and be "precise" with them(on the steel target), you don't aim with the reticle per say, but rather just in a very rudimentary way by adjusting the next shot based on how the last shot did. The "Stranger" game:D
At the risk of totally hijacking another thread, I figure I should put this information where it belongs anyway and raise this thread from the dead:)
Recent Tracer only video....
Very nice description, thank-you.
yhmspecter
11-19-11, 22:07
Awesome. I had no idea that bullet was that long. I have had some of these for a good amount of time, the ranges I frequent do not allow tracers, presumably due to the risk of fire. So thanks to your nicely put together thread I finally get to see some in action.
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