View Full Version : springfield pro or mars thug? or bear premier ll or ed brown sf help please
nobody knows
07-27-11, 18:04
I can't decide what to get. To me the Springfield pro seems a bit high, but so does the ed brown sf. I'm sure they are great pistols but are they that much better then a bear premier ll or a mars thug? I want a serious pistol that will last for generations. Right now I'm leaning towards the mars thug, because It's more of a custom pistol that I can tailorto my liking. I like the bear because I have herd great things about them, and I can get it with the 400corbon barrel fitted at the same time as the 45 barrel. Also I don't have to wait a year to get the gun. So what do you think?
You can't go wrong with any of them. I haven't shot a thug but I have the others and from what I hear, it's on par. I would not like to make this decision.
Overall, i would flip a coin betweeen the thug and the Ed Brown. The brown was truly a nice shooting pistol.
In order:
1. Brown
2. Baer
3. Thug
4. Springfield
The Thug is only third because of the wait. You really can't go wrong with any of them.
nobody knows
07-27-11, 20:26
Thanks for the replies . This really is a tough choice and like fixit69 said I can't go wrong with any of these. The main reason this is such a hard choice to make is I will only be able to own one of these(due to financial reasons) so I want to make the right choice the first time.
Poll: added
theJanitor
07-27-11, 21:14
I am assuming you referring to the Les Baer Premier II?
anyway, having handled and shot a THUG, owning a Baer, and a few other full-house custom jobs, the THUG is the hands down winner.
If you're talking about a custom pistol to last "generations", time and ease of acquisition, are low on the priority list.
No offense but this is a silly thread. They are all fine pistols that should last tens of thousands of rds. YOU have to decided what features you want on a 1911 and then pick which model has what you want. MARS is great to deal with, Steve is awesome. The Springfield custom shop is IMO one of the best out there, excellent work and customer service. Good luck dealing with Les Baer. He can be a d@#$ to put it mildly. I have never owned a Brown so I can't comment.
nobody knows
07-27-11, 22:25
No offense but this is a silly thread. They are all fine pistols that should last tens of thousands of rds. YOU have to decided what features you want on a 1911 and then pick which model has what you want. MARS is great to deal with, Steve is awesome. The Springfield custom shop is IMO one of the best out there, excellent work and customer service. Good luck dealing with Les Baer. He can be a d@#$ to put it mildly. I have never owned a Brown so I can't comment.
It might seem to be a silly thread but for someone that makes less then 20K PER YEAR
this is a large purchase. And being that I have never shot or handled any of these pistols, or any of this quality I wanted to get some opinions from those with first hand experience and knowledge of these products.
What do you plan on doing with the pistol?
My personal dream 1911 would be the springer.
If I was you I'd pay off my credit card and make sure I had a six month emergency fund in the bank.
nobody knows
07-27-11, 22:44
I am assuming you referring to the Les Baer Premier II?
anyway, having handled and shot a THUG, owning a Baer, and a few other full-house custom jobs, the THUG is the hands down winner.
If you're talking about a custom pistol to last "generations", time and ease of acquisition, are low on the priority list.
Yes sorry I ment premier ll, I typed this from my phone and the predictive text took over.
The thugs is the pistol I am leaning towards because I can get it exactly the way I want it from the start, and because I like the work I have seen from Steve. The Springfield is also one I can have done the way I want it from the start, but there is something about that pistole that doesn't quite feel(not physical) custom. The bear is the cheapest of the three and is set up close enough to the way I want it that it would take two or three little tweeks to be perfect.
theJanitor
07-27-11, 22:50
No offense but this is a silly thread.
I wholeheartedly agree
nobody knows
07-27-11, 22:52
If I was you I'd pay off my credit card and make sure I had a six month emergency fund in the bank. well I don't have any credit cards because I don't think buying things I don't have the cash for is irresponsible . And I do have some emergency funds put away, but again I don't consider that as spending money so I do not use it for my hobby because I feel like that is irresponsible.
nobody knows
07-27-11, 22:54
I wholeheartedly agree
Then don't click on it;)
well I don't have any credit cards because I don't think buying things I don't have the cash for is irresponsible . And I do have some emergency funds put away, but again I don't consider that as spending money so I do not use it for my hobby because I feel like that is irresponsible.
No offense, I've just had plenty of young guys work for me who'd never gotten any advice like that before, so I thought I'd throw it out there. I wish I was in the market for one of the pistols you're looking at.
Call Steve, send him a series 70 repro, start stock piling ammo and when you get it back try to shoot the barrel out of it. Nothing on your list compares to the THUG; Steve builds guns designed for hard use.
From what you offered:
Springer Pro
Ed Brown
Don't know where I've been, Thug? Picture anyone?
If you don't make a great deal of money. Get a Springer TRP OR SPRINGER MC OPERATOR. fantastic guns for the $$$.
It might seem to be a silly thread but for someone that makes less then 20K PER YEAR
this is a large purchase. And being that I have never shot or handled any of these pistols, or any of this quality I wanted to get some opinions from those with first hand experience and knowledge of these products.
If you make less than $20k a year, the harsh truth is you need to forget about a $2500 1911 and trying to pay for .45 ammo. Get a $400 Glock 19 or 17 and spend $2000 on 9mm. That will give you close to 10,000 rds to get very good with the pistol.
nobody knows
07-28-11, 13:54
If you make less than $20k a year, the harsh truth is you need to forget about a $2500 1911 and trying to pay for .45 ammo. Get a $400 Glock 19 or 17 and spend $2000 on 9mm. That will give you close to 10,000 rds to get very good with the pistol.
First off this is not something I "need" its somethingi want. I have several "plastic" pistols and I don't want another one. I also relode 45 as well as a few other more expensive caliber's. I can also save the money up so that's not an issue ether.
acaixguard
07-28-11, 21:48
I voted Springfield Pro, but that's cause I have one, and it's my favorite 1911!
But if not that, I would go for the Ed Brown.
Don't know anything about the Thug, and I'm not a big fan of Baers.
nobody knows
07-28-11, 22:47
I have been lookin into the Springfield pro a bit more and I'm having a hard time trying to find a place to view the custom options. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks
nobody knows
07-28-11, 22:59
No offense, I've just had plenty of young guys work for me who'd never gotten any advice like that before, so I thought I'd throw it out there. I wish I was in the market for one of the pistols you're looking at.
None taken ,sorry if it sounded as if i did. I appreciate the advice.
nobody knows
07-28-11, 23:04
What do you plan on doing with the pistol?
My personal dream 1911 would be the springer.
I will be using it for carry,classes,HD pretty much everything. The Springfield has the most votes so far, so I'm assuming it is a much better pistol then I first gave it credit for.
There are no options with the Pro. You order it the way it comes or it ain't a Pro.
BUT.
The Springfield Pro is a Springfield Custom Carry built to the FBI's specs.
You can order a Custom Carry and have it spec'd out any way you want.
I have a Springfield Custom Carry. I run it hard and I love it. It is spec'd as follows:
-Ed Brown wide single side safety
-Cylinder & Slide 3 hole trigger
-Les Baer style frontstrap undercut
-Pachmayr grips
-parkerized finish
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/SACS%20CC/100_0744.jpg?t=1311908153
nobody knows
07-28-11, 23:36
Okay thanks that makes sense, I guess I was confused by people referring to the Springfield as both the pro and the pro "FBI" model. Thank you for the picture as well.
The world of the 1911 is populated by he topmost and those that wish to be. Sorry if I offend anybody, but it is the truth. Fired too many. I would get a good smith, cause I can't fit a barel for shit. The rest I can do. Go shoot as many as you can get your hands on, then figure it out.
Eta: this is NOT a ."silly thread". If you think so why did you bother to reply?
Since you're asking, I "assume" it is because you aren't sure of what options you want/need or what you like. Even if I'm wrong on this assumption, I still say its stimple: Get the Professional.
- IF, IF you ever want to, or have to sell this, the Pro will have the best resale value. Pro's hold their value extremely well. It gets so much attention on the forums, gun rags, etc, that a many people who just want the top of the line want the Springfield Professional, because the FBI and this and that SWAT team use it.
- Springfield has fantastic customer service if you need it. They bend over backwards for fixing used, 400 dollar pistols. I can imagine what they'd do for their flagship pistol from their custom shop.
- It's a well tested, proven combination of parts and craftsmanship, perhaps more well tested than any other 1911.
Disclaimer- I have a Springfield customized in their custom shop, and I'm currently lusting over an Ed Brown.
Jim
I've owned a few semi-customs (Baer, Wilson, NH, SA Pro). IMO, they all felt and handled differently. It's taken me awhile to figure out what I like and don't like.
Some things to take into consideration: sights, front strap checkering (you may hate the Pro), thumb safety angle, beavertail, front cocking serrations, crowned barrel, trigger length, grip checkering, flat or arched mainspring, finish, etc.
If at all possible, I think you need to handle and shoot as many as possible before making a decission.
Not sure if I was helpful, but good luck.
The MARS is outstanding, but the wait is long--the SA will be fastest to acquire, easiest to service, and likely have the best resale value.
However, I would recommend you do not get any of them.
As has been stated before by others of greater wit than I, if you are a gentleman with a touch of gray in your hair and you were raised on 1911's, then by all means keep using them. However, as much as I love 1911's, for someone new to the game there is no way I can in good conscience recommend starting down the 1911 path when there are currently equally efficacious duty weapons that are much easier to service and that are far more cost effective. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with the S&W M&P45, HK45c, or even a G21sf. For the price of one high quality 1911, you can purchase an M&P45 w/Apex Duty Kit, 1000+ rounds of ammunition, and a good pistol training course. An even better option, unless you get free .45 ACP ammo or live in an anal retentive locale that illogically restricts magazine capacity, is to get yourself a 9 mm Glock, M&P9/M&P9c, or HK P30 and be done with it. Then you can forget about hardware and focus on what is truly important--training, practice, and mindset.
Keep in mind I was issued, used, or carried a 1911 daily from when I was commissioned in 1986 to January 2011 when my 1911's were retired in favor of M&P45's. I have been around quite a few 1911's over the past two decades of military and LE duty, including USGI, commercial Colt, SA (Milspec, Loaded, MC Oper, Professional models), Wilson, Kimber, Nighthawk, Les Baer, and Para Ord, as well as custom pistols by folks like Bill Laughridge, Wayne Novak/Joe Bonar, Ed Brown, John Jardine, Hilton Yam, Larry Vickers, and Chuck Rogers. I firmly believe that if you want a 1911 for serious use, the minimum level of quality for a duty/carry weapon is the SA Pro model (either PC9111 or PC9111LR if you want a light rail); if you’re not willing to invest that much into the weapon system, don't get a 1911--oh, and you are going to need to purchase 2 or 3 of them if you intend on using them hard--one for training, one for daily duty/CCW use, and perhaps one as a back-up...
Again, unless there is some over riding requirement to use a 1911, consider skipping the 1911 and go with a less expensive, more easily serviced system that will work just as well.
Okay thanks that makes sense, I guess I was confused by people referring to the Springfield as both the pro and the pro "FBI" model. Thank you for the picture as well.
Springfield confused the shit out of newcomers to the 1911 because they started calling the gun, FBI MODEL. FBI said no no. Can't use FBI or engrave the side which they did for a short while. So they call it custom or Professional now. Then they made the Pro with a rail and called it the "Pro or Operator". On the non railed version it says Professional on the slide. The railed version says "Operator".
Me and a friend got Operators and he thought he got screwed because it didn't say Professional. CORNFUSION!
So then Springfield says, let's make a semi custom model based off the Professional and call it TRP, and the railed version MC Operator.
And they always refer to it in advertisements as being built off similar specs as the FBI Professional model. CORNFUSION.
And they are great guns for the money. I've shot my TRP more than any other 1911 with zero malfunctions.
So that's the story as I understand it. Good luck and Springer gets my vote every time.
Doc GKR,
With all due respect. WTF are you think your saying that you would not tell some one to get a 1911. Now, given I'm a fanboy, not going to apologize. But I have glocks, wide body paras', sa and da wheel guns, and I'm not bullshitting when I say the best shooting hands down, AS FAR AS TRIGGER GOES, is 1911 and wheel gun.
If I live to see December I'll be 41. Grey has nothing to do with it cause I'm aerodynamic (bald). And I've owned a Glock 21, HK, and fired a few SW MP's. All gave me no trouble and i would not hesitate to recommend them.
But don't tell someone not to get a weapon because it's basically for old farts. The new vunderpistoles are great for LE and MIL. More bullets the better. But that advise goes to the new LE kid with a very limited budget who doesn't get issued(see Glock)
I'm sorry but I would not tell anyone to skip it. Maybe try some other pistols, see what you like. Sorry fanboy pulled an alien and popped out my chest.
And what the hell is that goofy Thing in the last title block. Must have hit by mistake.
Having a tuff day, I needed that laugh. Thanks
fixit69--Check your fire; re-read what I wrote, as it is quite true. As I clearly stated, I love 1911's and relied on them for many years and would have no problem doing so again; however, given the cost and time requirements for good 1911's, I cannot generally recommend them for serious use, as there are other more cost effective alternatives for most folks--the exceptions being for people already invested and experienced in 1911's and those stuck in locales with asinine laws that may restrict more modern designs. Of course, you may have far more experience in this area than I do...
Given your IP status, I seriously doubt I have more experience than you. I read what you wrote and it got my shorts wraped around my nuts. Like I said maybe tell someone to try another pistol, don't just flat out not recomend a 1911. Or any pistol for that manner. Why do you think it took me so long to try a "plastic" pistol. People like you, saying what you say.
That being said, I have pulled my boxers off my nads, and will appologize for being a jerk, not a 1911 fanboy.
No disrespect but remember you might not think offhand comments mean much, but being new here, I see a great wealth of knowledge, experience and wisdom... Your words carry weight, use them wisely
Truce and peace
Me too, pappabear. Guess I need to breath and count before I text.
nobody knows
08-01-11, 16:53
Okay first thank you all for your replies. Pappabear I appropriate the run down on the pro. Doc- thank you for replying to the thread I understand exactly what you are saying and I respect it. But the 1911 is the first gun that I ever fired, as well as the first gun that I owned(a series 1 kimber) and the pistole that I have the most trigger time with. So I feel most comfortable with it. So Because I sold my only 1911 I want to get another one.
I decided to go with mars because I can get the pistole exactly how I want it from the start. Example I hate 30lpi(I want 20lpi) I also hate ambi safety's (i want a single sided safety). So I will just do this right from the beginning, and the wait time will give me the ability to save the rest of the money. Again thanks to everybodythat replied.
There was an experienced officer superbly shooting a well worn MARS THUG in the recent Pat McNamara class (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84232)--I suspect you will enjoy the pistol and find it a superb tool! Be sure to get an extra fitted slide stop and a couple of extra fitted extractors for it. Ambi safeties seem silly...until you loose the use of your right hand and can only work the pistol with the left one--then they suddenly become very important.
Given your IP status, I seriously doubt I have more experience than you. I read what you wrote and it got my shorts wraped around my nuts. Like I said maybe tell someone to try another pistol, don't just flat out not recomend a 1911. Or any pistol for that manner. Why do you think it took me so long to try a "plastic" pistol. People like you, saying what you say.
That being said, I have pulled my boxers off my nads, and will appologize for being a jerk, not a 1911 fanboy.
No disrespect but remember you might not think offhand comments mean much, but being new here, I see a great wealth of knowledge, experience and wisdom... Your words carry weight, use them wisely
Truce and peace
I have been reading DocGKR's words eagerly on multiple forums for years now, and I have read NOT ONE post that was not carefully-crafted and full of wisdom.
nobody knows
08-01-11, 17:25
There was an experienced officer superbly shooting a well worn MARS THUG in the recent Pat McNamara class (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84232)--I suspect you will enjoy the pistol and find it a superb tool! Be sure to get an extra fitted slide stop and a couple of extra fitted extractors for it. Ambi safeties seem silly...until you loose the use of your right hand and can only work the pistol with the left one--then they suddenly become very important.
Doc Thank you for the link. I will definitely get the extra slide stop and extracters
And per your advice, I will reconsider the ambi safety.
Aubry
Not sayin that. But the idea( and maybe im wrong, took it the wrong way whatever), is why I developed preconceived notions about many weapon systems. I don't think it was Docs intention to say the 1911 or any gun is crap. And his posts are much more knowledgeable, carefully crafted and wise, than mine are. I wasnt attacking him, just disagreed with the dismissal Of the platformfor beginners. Or whoever for that matter.
I realized he's extensively used them, probably has much more time with them than I do, but what was said was the same principle that turned me off from glocks etc.
My main point was don't just say you wouldn't recommend it outright, but to try as many as you can out first, then make upyour mind. Hell there are1911 out there I wouldn't give 2 empty 45 shells for.
The Pro is no big deal any btter than a Brown... Baer ..Nighthawk ..
Wilson or any other Semi Custom.
In fact the pro has some mim parts where the others don't.
I have or had all the 1911's I listed and 2 full custom ones
Bottom line for me is why wait over a year for a Pro ( a good friend sells to many who go on all the different gun boards and he just got 2 pro's in he ordered 2 years ago???
I have done the same groups with all of my 1911's at 25 & 50 yards slow fire. Once I got use to the pistol and what they liked for ammo.
To be very honest my Dan Wesson Valors are just as accurate and reliable as my $2500 & $3000 1911's.
Pros are great guns but not worth the long wait JMO....
Aubry
Not sayin that. But the idea( and maybe im wrong, took it the wrong way whatever), is why I developed preconceived notions about many weapon systems. I don't think it was Docs intention to say the 1911 or any gun is crap. And his posts are much more knowledgeable, carefully crafted and wise, than mine are. I wasnt attacking him, just disagreed with the dismissal Of the platformfor beginners. Or whoever for that matter.
I realized he's extensively used them, probably has much more time with them than I do, but what was said was the same principle that turned me off from glocks etc.
My main point was don't just say you wouldn't recommend it outright, but to try as many as you can out first, then make upyour mind. Hell there are1911 out there I wouldn't give 2 empty 45 shells for.
I did not read in Doc's post an "absolutely do not" but rather "for someone new to the game there is no way I can in good conscience recommend starting down the 1911 path when there are currently equally efficacious duty weapons that are much easier to service and that are far more cost effective". A subtle difference perhaps, but I believe the point he is trying to make is that he's personally been down the path of the 1911 and found that, for those who really need a pistol as a defensive weapon, it is a relatively expensive and maintenance-intensive path. For those that are focused on achieving the capability of putting holes in the vital zones of those that require such, and for those that realize that the firearm is just a tool, one that is secondary to the mind/mindset, then the 1911 is but one option.
When one compares the cost of multiple hard-use pistols and associated kit, today we are blessed with other viable options to the venerable 1911. None are without their warts. DocGKR is sharing his experience and the wisdom he gained through that hard-earned experience. Choose to take it or not. Choose your experts wisely.
Aubry,
Either I'm not getting my point across or your just yanking the wrong dogs chain. Read last sentence first paragraph, and last paragraph of my last post.
Doc is all good in my book. Just because he said something I strongly disagree with doesn't make me hate him or think he is ignorant. This is a forum. You converse and sometimes don't see eye to eye.
Why am I talkin to you about someone else anyway?
Now let's stop this silliness and get back to the 1911 forum.
I still think I'm leaning towards mars thug. But an unfinished project is in my way. I've got a box of mostly Ed brown parts, just need a frame and slide.
capt_jerry
08-05-11, 17:10
My choice would be the Ed Brown SF. Great reliability and if the need ever arise great resale-ability.
QuickStrike
08-05-11, 17:39
The Pro is no big deal any btter than a Brown... Baer ..Nighthawk ..
Wilson or any other Semi Custom.
In fact the pro has some mim parts where the others don't.
I have or had all the 1911's I listed and 2 full custom ones
Bottom line for me is why wait over a year for a Pro ( a good friend sells to many who go on all the different gun boards and he just got 2 pro's in he ordered 2 years ago???
I have done the same groups with all of my 1911's at 25 & 50 yards slow fire. Once I got use to the pistol and what they liked for ammo.
To be very honest my Dan Wesson Valors are just as accurate and reliable as my $2500 & $3000 1911's.
Pros are great guns but not worth the long wait JMO....
Still does not change the fact that they are the most proven semi-custom 1911 on the market. I haven't heard of any of their MIM parts failing.
Regarding the Springfield Pro:
Still does not change the fact that they are the most proven semi-custom 1911 on the market. I haven't heard of any of their MIM parts failing.
I agree. I bought my Pro used for like $1600 or $1800 (I can't remember).
Buying used is a good way to get the Pro without having to wait as well as saving money.
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