We spent too much on stupid crap so lets increase taxes...

[Belmont31R]

:rolleyes:


http://cedarparkcitizen.com/2011/07/27/4-6-cent-tax-rate-increase-expected-for-2011-12-task-force-continues-work-to-close-achievement-gap/

Ive had threads before about the stupid shit they build around here for schools like HUGE sports parks, 2 football stadiums that cost OVER 20 million each, and now they don't have any money.


So lets RAISE taxes.


Whoever decided giving school districts taxing authority was a good idea needs to be tarred and feathered.


You know we gotta spend over 20 million on all these football stadiums so they can play a few games a year there...but then we gotta cut special education teachers because they cost too much.


I drive by their newest stadium and its always sitting idle except for a few friday nights a year. It can't be used for anything else since it doesn't have a track around it. This one HS has SIX fields.


http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=30.516936,-97.788212&spn=0.008217,0.016512&t=h&z=17

[Moose-Knuckle]

So the forefather's raged a revolution against the world’s greatest superpower over taxation without representation, what do you think they would think of shit like this?

[bubba04]

I am sure they rolled over in their graves.

[Belmont31R]

:mad:



Disler approximated the stadium cost at $22.5 million if things stay on pace).



Gee that would have paid for the budget gaps for years.



But no we gotta build it so a few kids can play football a few times a year.



Then literally maybe 1 mile down the road another district has this: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Round+rock+&hl=en&ll=30.492144,-97.774522&spn=0.005812,0.008256&sll=30.628459,-97.623138&sspn=0.525264,1.056747&t=h&z=18



No they couldn't be smart, and say schedule games to use one stadium for multiple teams. Each HS has to have its own giant football stadium. If you zoom out you can see how close they are.


Heres another one: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=leander+stadium&hl=en&ll=30.536539,-97.849259&spn=0.002904,0.004128&sll=30.424269,-97.774123&sspn=0.294062,0.153048&t=h&fll=30.537049,-97.848514&fspn=0.002904,0.004128&z=19



All within 10 minutes of each other. But we gotta cut teachers that actually make a difference in kids lives learning basic things and its entirely beyond us to cut out the BS like multiple 20 million + stadiums that get used a few times a year, and we gotta raise taxes!

[BCmJUnKie]

Ya. My girlfriend is a SP.ED. teacher. We have to move to Wyoming for her to make anything over $20,000.

Yet we can have 14 prisons in the small po dunk town I live in...14!

Where you think the funding goes from the taxpayers? Not into the roads, not into the right-of-ways.
PUblic works? Ya, right.

Most DEFINATELY not into the teachers salary...but the Human resource director can afford to drive a vette.

Didnt want to Hijack...but I know what you mean.

Why are americas entertainers paid more than the people that build all the shit

[Belmont31R]

Oh wait another field. Maybe this one didn't cost over 20 million since it doesn't have seating for over 10k people.


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.470408,-97.842468&spn=0.001453,0.002064&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=20


But they only have FIVE fields......:rolleyes:


At least the middle school is only at one field with track: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.476105,-97.834008&spn=0.002828,0.004128&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=19



Then we wonder and ponder why districts don't have any money, and gotta raise taxes & lay off actual beneficial employees. But those fields gotta stay and we gotta keep building them!

[Moose-Knuckle]

Why are americas entertainers paid more than the people that build all the shit

There was more than one Roman scholar that made the correlation between the exorbitant income of mere entertainers and the demise of their civilization.

[Gutshot John]

So the forefather's raged a revolution against the world’s greatest superpower over taxation without representation, what do you think they would think of shit like this?

You didn't get a chance to vote for your school board?

[Moose-Knuckle]

You didn't get a chance to vote for your school board?

Not mine, Belmonts. This is just one example of how money that is required by law to be paid by Joe tax payer is wasted. This type of missconduct is rampant. If it's happening at your local ISD athletic department then just imagine how much worse it is at the highest levels of goverment. :help:

[Belmont31R]

You didn't get a chance to vote for your school board?





Lol...



Each speaker will be limited to three (3) minutes.



Yes thats PLENTY of time to ask why they are spending 20 million PLUS on all these stadiums, why these HS's have so many fields, and actually get anywhere. :D



I can just imagine the interest the school board will have in answering these questions within 3 minutes. Im sure it will be a cornucopia of positive answers and questions, explanations, and in the 3 minutes Ill get a a full answer to my questions. I mean I may have to attend 20 meetings X 3 minutes to get just an hour with the prestigious board and Im 100% positive I will get straightforward answers and they will hold themselves accountable to spending over 40 million dollars on 2 football fields used a few times a year while they are laying off teachers who really do make a difference.

[120mm]

Why are americas entertainers paid more than the people that build all the shit

Because they EARN it.

Entertainers, unlike teachers, get paid exactly what they are worth.

The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.

The teaching profession has continually inflated education requirements to make it "seem" to be a much higher level skill than it really is.

Unfortunately, teachers, and teaching has successfully placed a mantle of sainthood upon itself that makes it unassailable by critics.

It is no coincidence that teaching qualification requirements have gone up while their product has gone down in quality.

Locally run schools, run by high school educated teenage schoolmarms were the pinnacle of US education. Huge, centrally controlled schools taught by MA/MS/PhD level schools and "administered" (whatever in **** that means) by 6 figure earning bureaucrats have and continue to fail in their core mission, all while conveniently blaming the parents and the students.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Oh wait another field. Maybe this one didn't cost over 20 million since it doesn't have seating for over 10k people.


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.470408,-97.842468&spn=0.001453,0.002064&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=20


But they only have FIVE fields......:rolleyes:


At least the middle school is only at one field with track: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.476105,-97.834008&spn=0.002828,0.004128&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=19



Then we wonder and ponder why districts don't have any money, and gotta raise taxes & lay off actual beneficial employees. But those fields gotta stay and we gotta keep building them!

And you wonder why kids don't take education seriously when they see schools spending this much on a sports facility. Can you imagine the science and engineering facilities you could build- or even just shop classes.

It even gets worse when you go to colleges. Kids choose schools that have the best dorms, excercise facilities and party life.

Maybe when we finally get our economic teeth kicked in and even middle class people have to struggle to buy an iWhatever people will start to take education seriously and we'll get more accountants, chemists, engineers, architects, biologists, doctors, nurses and physisicts.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Because they EARN it.

Entertainers, unlike teachers, get paid exactly what they are worth.

If they paid for and built their own stadiums, I might agree. It is interesting to look at sports franchises books and realize if they had to build their own facilities it would take most of the money paid to the higher tier athletes

The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.



The teaching profession has continually inflated education requirements to make it "seem" to be a much higher level skill than it really is.

Not really true. The requirements are actually barriers to entry to keep competition down. Not to protect the idiots that get past teahing programs and into schools, but the education major and now the masters are to keep the number of people down that can compete for the jobs.

Unfortunately, teachers, and teaching has successfully placed a mantle of sainthood upon itself that makes it unassailable by critics.

It is no coincidence that teaching qualification requirements have gone up while their product has gone down in quality.

Locally run schools, run by high school educated teenage schoolmarms were the pinnacle of US education. Huge, centrally controlled schools taught by MA/MS/PhD level schools and "administered" (whatever in **** that means) by 6 figure earning bureaucrats have and continue to fail in their core mission, all while conveniently blaming the parents and the students.

Not going to argue with you on that point.

The real reason that schools fail is parents don't give a crap and if your parents don't care is a teenager really going to?

[Belmont31R]

Because they EARN it.

Entertainers, unlike teachers, get paid exactly what they are worth.

The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.

The teaching profession has continually inflated education requirements to make it "seem" to be a much higher level skill than it really is.

Unfortunately, teachers, and teaching has successfully placed a mantle of sainthood upon itself that makes it unassailable by critics.

It is no coincidence that teaching qualification requirements have gone up while their product has gone down in quality.

Locally run schools, run by high school educated teenage schoolmarms were the pinnacle of US education. Huge, centrally controlled schools taught by MA/MS/PhD level schools and "administered" (whatever in **** that means) by 6 figure earning bureaucrats have and continue to fail in their core mission, all while conveniently blaming the parents and the students.



Thank you.


But I also think its a representation of society at large, and you have to have a degree mentatlity to be anything but a McDonalds cook.


My dad does not have a degree because at the time he was in school, one semester away from graduation, his company (who he still works for) offered him a job. He could teach his job easy enough even though he doesn't have a degree, and they still pay him well over 20k a month.

Now everyone needs to feel special, and "you aint shit unless you have at least a BS and masters". So teaching 3 periods a day plus coaching 1 team means you need to make all this money, the sports teams need professional level stadiums, and they also need money to travel and do all this shit just for HS. Yet our academics are falling behind and becoming less relevant. The real producers in this country are becoming 2nd hand to entertainers and celebrities. No one celebrates scientific achievement, and look at the state NASA is in. Id like to see one school district put the amount of money they do into sports (entertainers) they do as into science and such. Lets see a 22 million dollar science lab for once.


I posted in my previous threads I had a girl from the choir come to my door asking for donations. Never had a football star come to my door. I assume all their shit is paid, and they get padded grades. Thats the way it worked at my school. I was friends with quite a few and it wasn't a big secret the jocks grades were padded. Did I care? No.... Now that Im a parent I just find it amazing no one seems to care or notice how money is spent.


I may just go to these board meetings and video it.

[Belmont31R]

The real reason that schools fail is parents don't give a crap and if your parents don't care is a teenager really going to?




The responsibility here is on the adults not the teens and kids.



Im serious. Im going to go to one of these board meetings and ask questions. I only get 3 minutes to speak, though, so Im sure Ill get all the answers I need. ;)

[120mm]

Actually, you're right. It IS a reflection on society.

Starting in the 1920s, there has been a systematic effort by Socialists to "dumb down" society to build a reliable and stupid, non-critical thinking voting bloc. The implementation of welfare and other entitlements breaks up traditional family structures, including extended families, which weakens child rearing, which results in stupider kids, which results in teachers having an excuse for failing in the classroom.

Which they grab with both hands, and pull out every time they need an excuse for their non-performance.

I've taught "at risk" students, however, and refuse to pull out the excuse card. It has some validity, but it is not constructive or in "my lane." There is a paucity of hard nosed teachers out there, in my opinion. Way too many tender hearts and well-meaning idiots.

I am amazed at the sizes of bureaucracies and stupid shit school systems spend their money on as well.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The implementation of welfare and other entitlements breaks up traditional family structures, including extended families, which weakens child rearing, which results in stupider kids, which results in teachers having an excuse for failing in the classroom.



With out a doubt. We live in a society where we the family unit is continually attacked and we live in neighborhoods where we barely know our neighbors. The glue that holds us together is getting weaker and weaker.

[dookie1481]

Starting in the 1920s, there has been a systematic effort by Socialists to "dumb down" society to build a reliable and stupid, non-critical thinking voting bloc.

Oh yes. I have long lamented the inability of the average person to apply logic or critical thinking. Now that I'm a little older and more cynical, I've realized WHY people don't have those skills.

[chadbag]

Oh wait another field. Maybe this one didn't cost over 20 million since it doesn't have seating for over 10k people.


http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.470408,-97.842468&spn=0.001453,0.002064&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=20


But they only have FIVE fields......:rolleyes:


At least the middle school is only at one field with track: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cedar+park+HS&hl=en&ll=30.476105,-97.834008&spn=0.002828,0.004128&sll=30.536539,-97.849259&sspn=0.002904,0.004128&t=h&z=19



Then we wonder and ponder why districts don't have any money, and gotta raise taxes & lay off actual beneficial employees. But those fields gotta stay and we gotta keep building them!



Wow. On all the fields. Just wow.

My HS has one large field plus a simple baseball field. ALl the other fields are just grass fields with chalk lines for field hockey, soccer, etc. And the football field did not cost $20M. It looks to be better now than when I was there almost 30 years ago actually. Some of those chalk fields on the left look new and the football field looks redone.

In New England they practice the direct democracy in all towns with "Town Meeting." Any and all appropriations, including schools, have to be voted on by those in attendance. It sometimes acts as a deterrent to stupid spending. But not always, as the school supporters tend to stack the meetings, make a motion to move the school budget to the first item of business, so that they can then all go home.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=North+Middlesex+Regional+High+School,+Townsend,+MA&hl=en&ll=42.651597,-71.660873&spn=0.005255,0.00854&sll=42.651645,-71.660482&sspn=0.005354,0.00854&t=h&z=18

[BrianS]

The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.

The teaching profession has continually inflated education requirements to make it "seem" to be a much higher level skill than it really is.

Yep. In my state the union made it so that teachers had to have a masters degree, even for teaching elementary school, which is laughable.

Then they use the requirement that they pushed for to bump their pay, "We aren't making what other people with Masters Degrees are making." No shit Sherlock, you are teaching kids their ABC's, how to read, counting, basic math, etc.

[Suwannee Tim]

It's for the children Belmont, the the children. How could you complain about something that's for the children? You right wingnuts are all the same. You hate the children.:D

My burg spent a billion dollars because they could. Called it the "Better Jacksonville Plan" When you cut through all the sales pitches and hyperbole the rationale was because they could. We have a public library that rivals The Palace of Versailles and are building a colossal, both in size and prize, County Courthouse. I call it the "Palace of Lawyers." We had to have "a team." Had to. Wouldn't be on the map without it. Would always be a small town without it. Well, we're on the map now. "Our team" costs the city tens of millions of dollars a year. So a portion of my property tax goes to rich football players and team owners.

[Palmguy]

It's for the children Belmont, the the children. How could you complain about something that's for the children? You right wingnuts are all the same. You hate the children.:D

My burg spent a billion dollars because they could. Called it the "Better Jacksonville Plan" When you cut through all the sales pitches and hyperbole the rationale was because they could. We have a public library that rivals The Palace of Versailles and are building a colossal, both in size and prize, County Courthouse. I call it the "Palace of Lawyers." We had to have "a team." Had to. Wouldn't be on the map without it. Would always be a small town without it. Well, we're on the map now. "Our team" costs the city tens of millions of dollars a year. So a portion of my property tax goes to rich football players and team owners.

Well...at least they are one of the top contenders in the NFL to no longer be in their current city in the not too distant future...

"Los Angeles Jaguars" doesn't have quite the same flow though...LOL

[R/Tdrvr]

I was really happy to see that almost 50% of my real estate taxes went to education. :rolleyes: Personally, I don't think I should have to pay that because I don't have kids. That money could be used else where, like the purchase of a new AR. :D

[montanadave]

One of the elements in this type of debate which is often overlooked is who actually receives the public funds expended on these large, expensive municipal projects.

Sure, there are always loads of politicians pandering for votes and civic leaders touting the "it's for the children" line, but there are also a lot of contractors, concessionaires, etc. who stand to make a great deal of money on the building and maintenance of these structures who lobby very hard to bring these projects to fruition.

Public monies don't just go up in smoke. They end up in somebody's pocket. If you want to know who's pulling the strings, follow the money.

[maximus83]

Public monies don't just go up in smoke. They end up in somebody's pocket. If you want to know who's pulling the strings, follow the money.

Quite true. Recently, they built a fancy new several million dollar building at our local middle school. My kids go to a Christian school so we didn't follow all that closely what the new building was for. Then we found out: the school was hiring additional administrative headcount, and the entire new building was for Administration!

A disproportionately large % of the education dollars these days are flowing to administrative positions whose entire purpose is to "liase", "report", and "facilitate". All weasel words to cover up the reality of BS jobs that do nothing useful and have zero accountability.

[P2000]

Good thread
Another problem is city/states are going after federal dollars because they see it as "free", (or the fed is giving money out too easily, depending on how you see it). Case in point: They just finished construction of a 2.5 million dollar fancy pedestrian bridge that goes over the freeway near my residence. 100% federally funded. It only links a neighborhood with an apartment complex and more neighborhoods, no efficient linking of jobs or shopping. They really went all out with this thing, state of the art crossing signals, purple neon lights, suspension cables(even though it isn't a suspension bridge). The dumbest part is that there aren't even sidewalks in the some of the surrounding area...
Building crap we don't need when the fed borrows so much money from china irritates me.

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/headlines/article_5ce9f0f2-80a5-11e0-aa18-001cc4c002e0.html

[Cincinnatus]

Because they EARN it.

Entertainers, unlike teachers, get paid exactly what they are worth.

The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.

The teaching profession has continually inflated education requirements to make it "seem" to be a much higher level skill than it really is.

Unfortunately, teachers, and teaching has successfully placed a mantle of sainthood upon itself that makes it unassailable by critics.

It is no coincidence that teaching qualification requirements have gone up while their product has gone down in quality.

Locally run schools, run by high school educated teenage schoolmarms were the pinnacle of US education. Huge, centrally controlled schools taught by MA/MS/PhD level schools and "administered" (whatever in **** that means) by 6 figure earning bureaucrats have and continue to fail in their core mission, all while conveniently blaming the parents and the students.

+1 on this and I AM a teacher, though not in public K-12 schools.
One dirty little secret about how much people are paid is how valuable their service is to the payer--how rare the ability, etc. necessary to do the task is, not how hard the job is, or its "value to society." For example, a janitor works really damn hard, you might argue even harder than some CEOs, does that mean he should be paid the same? No, because it's not how hard one works or how "hard" the job is, but how common the service is to replace. Socialists would have us believe that that Janitor is being robbed by that CEO, something they call the Labor Theory of Value; it is a load of shit.

[Suwannee Tim]

Well...at least they are one of the top contenders in the NFL to no longer be in their current city in the not too distant future...

"Los Angeles Jaguars" doesn't have quite the same flow though...LOL

I wouldn't bet on them being gone anytime soon Palmguy. The yokels what run this burg will give Weaver clear title to the city before they let the Jagwads leave.

[Suwannee Tim]

....The 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to point out is that teaching is a low level skill profession that nearly anyone could do with really minimal training.....

Untrue. My wife teaches K and I know a bit about it. One example, Classroom Management, the art of controlling 18 little darlings without a paddle, really without any real power at all. It can be done but it is not easy, especially with two or three lunatics in the room. Another example, Diagnostics, the art of figuring out why the little darlings can't learn. There are a variety of reasons and they all require a different solution. Another example, the teacher must know the law, the regulations and policy, no mean thing as they are voluminous. I couldn't do it. I'll bet you couldn't either.

[120mm]

Untrue. My wife teaches K and I know a bit about it. One example, Classroom Management, the art of controlling 18 little darlings without a paddle, really without any real power at all. It can be done but it is not easy, especially with two or three lunatics in the room. Another example, Diagnostics, the art of figuring out why the little darlings can't learn. There are a variety of reasons and they all require a different solution. Another example, the teacher must know the law, the regulations and policy, no mean thing as they are voluminous. I couldn't do it. I'll bet you couldn't either.

Bullshit. I've done it, will probably do it again sometime later on, and can train someone to do it in about 6 weeks.

The fact that they've invented "buzzwords" to describe something that nearly every mother who's had children and actually raised them does instinctively, doesn't mean it's a high level or uncommon skill. A teacher with even mildly moderate skill can get on top of a problem class and stay there. And guess what, sunshine? Every leadership profession has this exact same challenge. Any leader in the military faces the same thing, from Fire Team up to CENTCOM Commander.

Running a room full of jackasses is probably the most common, low level skill there is. Ever manage a restaurant?

My wife volunteers as a classroom aide. She is currently running 2 out of the 3 classes she helps in as the teachers are incompetent ****s, who don't know how to run a class. Both of them have advanced degrees in their field, btw.

About half the classes my daughters have attended were well run, and half were utter chaos. The difference? Not the kids; it's the same group of those. Rather, the teachers sucked balls. And in those classes, I've ended up reteaching those subjects to my daughters, as the teachers failed to teach, as well.

Way too many government teat suckers in the teacher ranks. Can't manage your class? Quit blaming the customer and get the **** off the welfare role you occupy. I am ****ing done with teachers and their whiney ass bitching excuses for why they suck at their job.

[Suwannee Tim]

As an undergraduate at Columbia University, then as a graduate student, I have considerable familiarity with Teacher's College at Columbia. All the more so as my wife has attended summer seminars there for ten years and I have accompanied her for most of those years. 120th Street which separates TC from Columbia proper was once widely referred to as the "widest street in the world", a reference to the drastic difference between the best in the world academic rigor of Columbia and the lack of same at TC. You hear this phrase rarely now as TC has dramatically improved it's standards in the last couple of decades. My wife teaches writing in Kindergarten. At first the children just scrawl but by the end of the year most are writing pages of text. In Kindergarten. I didn't do that until second grade. I marvel at the quality of education many of the children receive at my wife's little country school house. Sadly it is not all as there are several dud teachers but that is an artifact of the Civil Service system.