Stag Arms, how accurate are Stag Arms? See inside...

[Lonzo]

Just a post for those that have been asking and wondering about Stag Arms AR-15's.

The AR15 I used below in the photo's, is a Stag Arms M4 2H.

16" Chrome Lined
1/9 Twist
Simmons Aetec 4-14 x 44 SF
Armalite 1" EX0027 Scope Mount
4lb reworked trigger
approx. 4,000 to date.

I also reload my own.

RCBS Junior 3 Press
RCBS FL Dies
Digital and Balance Beam Scales

The first picture is 3 shots at .625". Using 40gr Vmax, 26.0 gr Ramshot TAC, Federal 205 Primers, and Guatemalan Cases. Head spaced -.002 to -.003 below fired cases. OAL = 2.260. Fired at 100 yds, 65 degrees, clear and sunny, 5 mph light wind.

http://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/forumpics/40vmax1.jpg

The second picture is 5 shots at 1.00" Using 40gr Vmax Molly Coated, 27.6gr Ramshot TAC, Federal 205 Primers, and Guatemalan Cases, 100 yds, 65 degrees, 5 mph light wind. These were test loads, and considering the 40Vmax did very well with 26.0 of TAC, as you can see with the Molly coated using 27.6 of TAC, the groups opened up just a bit. But still good enough for Coyotes.

http://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/forumpics/40vmax2.jpg
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I like my Stag. Fun to shoot, and reliable. I have shot Wolf (which I don't care to shoot anymore), Wally World Fed. (accurate in my Stag), Guatemalan, Q3131, Eagle, Sellier Bellot, Remmington, ect....

Remember, these 2 pictures above, were shot using my Stag that has at least 4,000 rounds already fired through the rifle. Not bad [:D]

Here's my Stag. I have recently removed the BUIS, and usually only use the 15 round mags. The guards I use is the Under The Gun 4 rail. Very easy to install and works great for me. Also added an elcheapo Forward Grip, nothing fancy, but works well.

Also, you can see the Fake Ebay Aimpoint I use. It works well. Its a brighter Dot than the BSA models, because it uses 2 batteries verses 1 for the BSA.

http://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/forumpics/stagar15.jpg
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Hope this helps anyone deciding about a Stag. I have never had a problem with mine, its been 9 months so far, without a hiccup.

Cheers
LastCat

[AMMOTECH]

Good stuff until I got to the end....:eek:

Fake e-bay aimpoint??????:confused:


I know it's hard to have the cash sometimes to get what you need but I would have just mastered the iron sights more while I save my $$$ for the real deal.

[Kurt Reifert]

You may already be aware of this, but switching back and forth with moly and non-moly can play havoc with your accuracy.
I have found no convincing reason to use moly and many good reasons to leave them for others.

[KintlaLake]

For some reason -- having nothing to do with the Stag's accuracy, mind you -- this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Horse) occurred to me.

Maybe it's just me.

[Detachment Charlie]

I have NO doubts about Stag accuracy. Since my cataract surgery, I shot this 3 shot group at 50 meters with a 3x9 - 40mm "Trashco" on my M4gery using 55 gr. WOLF (Black Box) JHP. No idea of barometric pressure, but it was over 90F, humidity had to be 80%+, but dead still air.:cool:

[120mm]

Does anyone ANYWHERE know why this thread is here?

You do know this forum has a basic theme, and this thread doesn't fit...right?

Sooo, how many rounds have you put in your rifle in a day? How many classes have you attended? What does the staking on your gas key look like?

And out of morbid curiousity, what does a 20 yard, one target group look like?

3-5 round groups mean squat.

[Lonzo]

I have NO doubts about Stag accuracy. Since my cataract surgery, I shot this 3 shot group at 50 meters with a 3x9 - 40mm "Trashco" on my M4gery using 55 gr. WOLF (Black Box) JHP. No idea of barometric pressure, but it was over 90F, humidity had to be 80%+, but dead still air.:cool:


Nice work there Charlie, looks good.

LC

[Lonzo]

Does anyone ANYWHERE know why this thread is here?

You do know this forum has a basic theme, and this thread doesn't fit...right?

Sooo, how many rounds have you put in your rifle in a day? How many classes have you attended? What does the staking on your gas key look like?

And out of morbid curiousity, what does a 20 yard, one target group look like?

3-5 round groups mean squat.

My dad can beat up your dad.

:D :D :D :D

LC

[Lonzo]

You may already be aware of this, but switching back and forth with moly and non-moly can play havoc with your accuracy.
I have found no convincing reason to use moly and many good reasons to leave them for others.

Yep, I know. I have read many of research reports on the why's and why not's.

Works fine for my Stag. I always shoot the naked bullets first, clean the barrel, then only shoot Molly bullets the rest of the day. Then clean the barrel real good, as soon as I reach the house. As you can see, after 4,000 rounds, even using Molly Coated, this Stag can still shoot under MOA.

Cheers
LC

[Failure2Stop]

This does not prove MOA accuracy.

To obtain a statistical avearge you need to be showing 10 shot groups. 3 shot groups may be sufficient for rough zeroing, but not for statistical analysis or "proof" of accuracy.

Go HERE (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218) to find out why. (This is a link to ARFCOM, to a thread written by Molon, who knows his shit and proves it. Mods- if you do not what this link to stand, I apologise and am already pushing.)

Then again, most people still won't care about the accuracy of a Stag. It's akin to finding out the quarter mile time for a HMMWV.

[Lonzo]

Hey Rob,

Your point really doesn't matter. :D :D :D

The world just has too many opinionated, self righteous people.

Lighten up, this aint no Science Lab.


Ha!

[Failure2Stop]

Hey Rob,

Your point really doesn't matter. :D :D :D



I am not rob s, the quote is something he said that I found funny, so included it in my sig line. I was not implying by the quote that your point doesn't matter.

What I wanted was a 10 shot group. That's it. I just wanted to actually see what you are getting. Franlky I am more interested in your handloads than your rifle.

I am taking you at face value, and assuming that what you are posting is honest. I was trying to help you establish credability. I have no proof that you didn't shoot those groups at 15 yards, but I have no reason to question that.

Anyway, thank you for taking your time to show us some pictures. It is always good to know that there is someone out there shooting.

Good day.

[120mm]

And my point is, this isn't a "who makes an accurate AR" forum.

It was my assumption when I joined, that this is a "who makes ARs that stand up to abuse and have the best chance of making them go bang when you need them to" kind of forum.

This kind of thread doesn't belong here. I have a three shot group, shot at 100m, from a Model 1 Sales piece of crap I put together for $400, that is tighter than that. I doubt anyone here cares about that. You could go over to one of the Benchrest forums and show off a stock Mini14 and get about the same response, if ruder.

Now... If you were to post how you brought a Stag up to a better level of functioning, while retaining better than Minute Of Man accuracy, THEN we'd have a worthwhile thread. Of course, you'd need to do it cheaper than just buying a new LMT, Colt or ADS, to get MY interest.

So, in the apparently vain attempt to make this thread relevant, how has the reliability of this carbine been improved, and how did it affect your accuracy? And I agree with Failure2Stop; 3 shot groups prove nothing, except the poster's inexperience/ignorance.

[TWR]

Just where does it say 'this ain't no accuracy forum"??? Yes this site leans towards reliability but who cares if it fires everytime if you miss everytime?

Some of you guys need to back off a little bit, if a mod sees a problem they will deal with it. Until then if you don't like a post, move on.

If you want a site with only MIL hardened warriors who shoot the real thing, then start your own site. AR general discussion kind of covers everything "general".

And the 3 shot group while showing little for accuracy is the industry standard, look at the accuracy guarantees from Remington, Sako, Weatherby and others. 5 shot groups are better and 10 shots better yet but no one labels a rifle MOA accurate with a 10 shot group.

Some of you guys act like you're bucking for a mod position, I can tell you the pay ain't that great so let's all just enjoy this site, the info is great but cutting through the "qualifications" around here is getting worse than the BS on TOS.

[120mm]

Then, I see no reason to come to this site. If this is to become ARFCOM II, what's the point?

And I didn't see anyone saying anything about qualifications, or .mil anything. For those of you who are so insecure about yourselves that you lead with your ego, too bad, so sad. My preconceived notions (and ego) took a serious beating when I first came here, and I survived. And I'm better for it.

And I stand by my statement that 3 shot groups are bullshit, and this forum isn't the place to post bullshit. Accuracy, in fact, is only germaine as relates to "Minute of Man", anyway, unless you can get it within a certain reliability standard. And the OP posted jack shit about reliability.

I haven't seen a real reason to read a post for about a month. And now we have ****ing 5 post wonders in other threads, who admit to being "omg, complete noobs!" calling bullshit on experienced shooters.

I don't want to be a mod; I just want the mods to know that this place is no longer that great a place for guys like me (and I'm nowhere NEAR as experienced as REAL HSLD guys) to come to.

[Failure2Stop]

I just fired my smallest group ever. Yup, one shot. Hell, it's 1/3 of the 3 shot group, better ratio than the 3 shot group to the 10 shot group.

I just wrote a reply for the last 20 minutes, and just before posting it, I had the realization that I just don't care that much about this thread.

Do what you want, however you want. Have a great day and buy another gun for everyone's sake. At least we can agree on that, right?

[Detachment Charlie]

How many rounds have I put through a rifle in a day? Probably more than a thousand, but I really didn't have time to count because I wasn't punchin' paper. The rounds were mostly headed north of Gio Lihn, Rock Pile and Hill 881, all north of the Cua Viet
Have fun. Good Bye group. just wanted to show what this brand of rifle could do.
Adios.

[MBRMan]

120mm...

I am a new member, but nowhere in the mission statement of this site is the term "reliability" mentioned. I guess that unlike you, I'm inerested in the accuracy of my rifles and carbines, along with reliability. I will say that reliability trumps accuracy for a fighting gun, but accuracy is still an important trait of a weapon for the vast majority of people. I do agree however that 3 shot groups dont mean shit (other than the cold barrel shot).

Someone once said (don't remember who, now), that "Only accurate rifles are interesting". I modify that statement and say that only accurate AND reliable rifles are interesting. You seem to be of the opinion that only reliable rifles are interesting. Reliability is a great thing but doesn't mean squat if you can't hit what you're aiming at.

MBR

[Failure2Stop]

Let's just let this thing die, there is no good to come out of this.