View Full Version : Spikes/AimSurplus CHF upper - Has anyone shot this yet?
First off - I DON'T WANT THIS THREAD CLOSED DUE TO POINTLESS DISCUSSIONS OF DICKS, THE "TDP", OR WHETHER THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO STENCIL "FN" ON THEIR BARRELS. OK???
I'm just interested in replies from anyone who has already gotten one and/or shot it...
I'm pretty leery of their claim that it is capable of 1/2" groups depending on ammo, optics, shooter. -- if you have shot one, can you give us your results to include choice of ammo, conditions, etc.?
also, can you give specifics on weight, barrel diameter before and after the gas block? is this a lightweight? more like gov't weight???
finally, I WOULD like discussion on the perceived/actual benefits of a NiBoron coated BCG.
please try to keep this a factual discussion. Spikes seems to get a lot of emotional discussion on both sides and I'm not looking for opinions, anecdotes, or innuendo.
if you have data or experience, please add it. opinions, keep to yourself...
SomeOtherGuy
08-01-11, 14:25
I shot mine for the first time yesterday. It was only basic function testing, nothing more. The upper worked perfectly with 10 rounds of PMC 55gr FMJ and 5 rds of PMC X-Tac (M855). The lower used was a build of mine - the only relevant detail is that I used a sprinco blue carbine buffer spring and H buffer from G&R Tactical.
Conditions were about 88 degrees and moderately humid (dewpoint around 68). Bright daylight, no rain. I did not attempt any accuracy testing. I just wanted to function test it and had a few spare minutes.
I haven't mic'd the barrel OD but it appears to be roughly 0.680" or so. I'll try to measure it later. The felt weight of the upper is basically the same as a govt profile midlength 16", and a bit heavier than a BCM .625" lightweight midlength. I was surprised it didn't feel lighter.
The NiB coated bolt and carrier is amazingly slick. It actually doesn't seem to hold oil, at least not SLIP2000 EWL. However it's so slick that it may not need to. I'll know more with more testing, of course. The little bit of fouling wiped off easily with a paper towel and it looked perfectly clean again. There is also a very noticeable layer of dry-lube film inside the upper - obviously most quality brands do that, but this seemed like a thicker than normal layer, which may be good, bad, or indifferent. Since function was 100% it's probably not too bad, at the worst.
I shot mine for the first time yesterday. It was only basic function testing, nothing more. The upper worked perfectly with 10 rounds of PMC 55gr FMJ and 5 rds of PMC X-Tac (M855).
Since function was 100% it's probably not too bad, at the worst.
100% function after 15 rounds? A tad premature in my book.
SomeOtherGuy
08-01-11, 15:30
100% function after 15 rounds? A tad premature in my book.
I think this is the opposite of the kind of post the OP was asking for.
It's also a deliberate misquoting of what I said. My final paragraph statement using "100%" is specifically about the possibility that there is too much dry lube film in the receiver. My first paragraph is a factual description of what I did in testing. I do not claim 100% in the first paragraph, although it would be technically correct if I had. Nowhere in my review is a statement along the lines of "this is the most wonderfulest reliable upper ever, ST RULEZ!" which is what you seem to be implying with your misquote and reply. Anyone who belongs on m4c.net would be aware that 15 rounds doesn't mean much about long term reliability. However, the OP asked several specific questions and I have firsthand relevant knowledge, so I thought it nice to reply to his questions.
I suppose "function testing" can mean various different things, but to me in this context it means "should I sight this in and start using it, or do I need to return it for repair/replacement?" I have a private berm on my property, but my formal range is a club that's 35 miles way, so I like to know if something is basically working before I load it in the car for a trip to the formal range.
So, how is your ST-CHF upper working for you?
I think this is the opposite of the kind of post the OP was asking for.
It's also a deliberate misquoting of what I said. My final paragraph statement using "100%" is specifically about the possibility that there is too much dry lube film in the receiver. My first paragraph is a factual description of what I did in testing. I do not claim 100% in the first paragraph, although it would be technically correct if I had. Nowhere in my review is a statement along the lines of "this is the most wonderfulest reliable upper ever, ST RULEZ!" which is what you seem to be implying with your misquote and reply. Anyone who belongs on m4c.net would be aware that 15 rounds doesn't mean much about long term reliability. However, the OP asked several specific questions and I have firsthand relevant knowledge, so I thought it nice to reply to his questions.
I suppose "function testing" can mean various different things, but to me in this context it means "should I sight this in and start using it, or do I need to return it for repair/replacement?" I have a private berm on my property, but my formal range is a club that's 35 miles way, so I like to know if something is basically working before I load it in the car for a trip to the formal range.
So, how is your ST-CHF upper working for you?
I think you are reading too much into what I posted. I am actually very interested how these uppers do. I am not a ST detractor or fanboy (I am definitely not hoping they fail to prove some sort of grudge or something as you seem to imply). Sounds like I misinterpreted what you meant in your post, too.
As for deliberately misquoting you, I am sorry you feel that way. That was not my intention and I don't believe I did. I merely connected two statements about the exact same subject to highlight what I was talking about. Your entire post is immediately above my post. I think you are ascribing intent to my post that wasn't there.
Apologies for the derail.
thaks for keeping it civil. I'm really interested in the accuracy potential of this barrel.
advert copy claims it has 1/2 MOA potential. Tom from Spikes said that this is what he was told by FN rep. I find this hard to believe but even if it was twice that, it would still be interesting.
I'm hoping someone can come back with good accuracy testing using a magnified optic and good ammo like a 69 or 77gr. match...
Here are a couple of reviews.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_217/206653_New_CHF_Spikes_Tactical_Mid_Length_Elite_Series__IN_STOCK_AND_SHIPPING_.html&page=6
JeepDriver
08-01-11, 17:10
Shot mine Saturday.
Shot a little over 300 rounds, mostly XM193F with a couple mags of 75gr Prvi. I dialed.it in tight at 50, then made the adjustments at 100. At 50 it was a one hole group, at 100 I was shooting about 2.5" with the 193, and around 1.5 with the Prvi. I have a RRA NM trigger and was using a TA31F (red chevron) . Is the upper more capable ? Probably, .5 MOA ? I don't know, and probably never will, not that type of shooter.
As far as the BCG, it did wipe off easily, but I only shot ~ 300 rounds. I used mobile 1 as lube before I went. There really wasn't any difference in that BCG and my BCM carbine I shot. Maybe with a higher round count session the benefits would have been apparent.
If I get a chance go get into the gun room tonight I'll measure the barrel, I was wondering the same thing, just keep forgetting to measure it. Weight wise it feels ( nothing scientific ) like my 14.5 " gun with standard handguards.
wolf_walker
08-01-11, 17:22
4.2 LBS was quoted as the upper weight as delivered. I'd measure but I don't have a scale of any sort.
Shot mine Saturday.
Shot a little over 300 rounds, mostly XM193F with a couple mags of 75gr Prvi. I dialed.it in tight at 50, then made the adjustments at 100. At 50 it was a one hole group, at 100 I was shooting about 2.5" with the 193, and around 1.5 with the Prvi. I have a RRA NM trigger and was using a TA31F (red chevron) . Is the upper more capable ? Probably, .5 MOA ? I don't know, and probably never will, not that type of shooter.
As far as the BCG, it did wipe off easily, but I only shot ~ 300 rounds. I used mobile 1 as lube before I went. There really wasn't any difference in that BCG and my BCM carbine I shot. Maybe with a higher round count session the benefits would have been apparent.
If I get a chance go get into the gun room tonight I'll measure the barrel, I was wondering the same thing, just keep forgetting to measure it. Weight wise it feels ( nothing scientific ) like my 14.5 " gun with standard handguards.
thanks for the review... 1.5" at 100 yards with one kind of ammo is encouraging. given the right ammo/optic/conditions, getting it down to 1" or thereabouts does not seem out of the realm of possibility.
I'm really interested in the maximum accuracy potential of this barrel in the best case scenario. I realize it's not ever going to compete with the SPR's of the world but with good-enough accuracy, it could make a very decent Recce with a 1-4 scope...
that is very reasonable for a CL barrel...
4.2 LBS was quoted as the upper weight as delivered. I'd measure but I don't have a scale of any sort.
thanks wolf. one poster said the upper was between his middy and a LW in weight. another said it was about equal to his 14.5".
this all tallies with the posted weights of the barrels themselves as posted by Spikes but I wonder about the weight spread. they have the gov't. countour, the Optimum, and the lightweight barrels only about an ounce difference from each other. my BCM gov't. and LW middies are almost 5 ounces difference...
wolf_walker
08-01-11, 19:58
I can't feel that little difference myself either way. Feels just like the last middy 16" standard barrel I had with MOE hand guards. My arms probly need calibrating. :) I'm so used to FAL's and M1A's and old bolt guns they all feel like nerf guns to me, I dig it. If nobody ever measures the thing for you I'll get my caliper from the shop and do so sometime this week.
I can't feel that little difference myself either way. Feels just like the last middy 16" standard barrel I had with MOE hand guards. My arms probly need calibrating. :) I'm so used to FAL's and M1A's and old bolt guns they all feel like nerf guns to me, I dig it. If nobody ever measures the thing for you I'll get my caliper from the shop and do so sometime this week.
not necessary but thanks. I've got a feel for it now I guess...
edit: Ken6PPC posted on TOS 0.670" under the handguard, and 0.643" in front of the gas block. gas block is .750"
another poster questioned if he got it backwards and says it is thinner under the HG. tracking... waiting for accuracy reports...
I got mine in last Friday but unfortunately I had to leave the next day for vacation. Ill be home shortly and will hopefully be able to shoot sometime next week.
I did get to slap on an M&P lower on it and see how it felt. I can definitely feel a weight difference between this upper and my M&P OR upper with a DD Omega 7.0 rail (when comparing the two uppers I used the same lower). According to DD and Magpul the DD Omega 7.0 rail weighs 7.6 oz. And the MOE mid-length hand guard (which comes with this Spikes upper) weighs 8.74 oz. This Spikes upper feels lighter. Not by a ton, but I can feel the difference.
In 2-3 weeks I will hopefully have a LaRue 9.0 rail on this ST upper.
I will first shoot it with the MOE on it and zero in the irons. Then put my Aimpoint M3 on it and shoot it. After that I will give a range report. And will hopefully be able to help some of you gents out that are interested in this upper.
Then hopefully by the next week or so (2-3 weeks from now) I will have that LaRue 9.0 rail on it and will shoot it and see if there is a difference from the MOE (I doubt there will be much of a difference, but its worth trying out).
Can't wait to get this baby out to the range and put it through its paces.
BufordTJustice
08-04-11, 23:39
Ray,
I've got just under 2K rds on my Spike's NiB/FZ BCG.
It's GTG and is REALLY slick in operation. PM me if you have more questions about it....discussing it turns into a shitstorm quick.
Skyfire1201
08-05-11, 01:54
Ray,
I've got just under 2K rds on my Spike's NiB/FZ BCG.
It's GTG and is REALLY slick in operation. PM me if you have more questions about it....discussing it turns into a shitstorm quick.
That's encouraging. If they come up with a Troy extreme version with LPGB I'd be very tempted.
Reciprocator
08-09-11, 09:53
I just got mine in the mail yesterday. I cleaned and lubed it, ordered some irons, and I'm gonna be taking it out this weekend. I'll let you know how it is. So far I'm already impressed with build quality.
I paired it to a Superior Arms lower with adjustable trigger and aftermarket grip. Hopefully all goes well!
The Nickel Boron BCG is actually pretty slick looking I must add :cool:
Well I finally got 2 range trips out the past 2 weeks.
First range trip got to the range with about 45 min of light left. Got my irons zeroed in (1 1/2" groups. 50 yards). And got my Comp M3 to a "battle" zero before it got too dark to see my targets (shooting about 3 - 3 1/2" groups. 50 yards) Only got 80 rounds off, no problems. Ammo used WPA 55grn. I like this stuff because as long as I have shot it I have gotten decent groupings (with my S&W upper on good days I got about 1" groups out of it) and have had no malfunctions with it, and I don't have the money to shoot brass (all my brass I test and save for a rainy day) every other week so this is why I shoot WPA.
Second range trip started off not as a good day. On this trip I was going to my "other" range (friends property) and I had hours of time to shoot so no rushing this time. I decided to give my barrel a quick clean with a patch before going out. Well for the first (and hopefully last) time my cleaning rod got stuck (and I mean stuck) in my barrel :angry: I was all ready to go and then this happened, I was pretty upset. Thankfully Robb Jensen works close to me so he got the cleaning rod out for me. THANK YOU Robb!
So I finally got to my friends property and started to "fine tune" my Comp M3. Well unfortunately I was having an "0ff" day and I couldn't get better than 2" groups :( (Ammo: WPA 55grn. at 50 yards). After realizing I wasn't going to get any better groupings on this day I decided to do some shooting drills (25 yards and closer). Shot fine and love the mid-length profile. I also shot a box of XM855F, groupings on this stuff was worse than my WPA lol but like I said I had an "off" day and could not hold a steady group. I shot 200 rounds of WPA 55grn. and 20 rounds of XM855F. All shot fine with no hiccups.
The Nib BCG is definitely easier to clean. I really do like it. Not a necessity, but heck it came with this upper and I love it.
All in all I have shot 300 (280 WPA 55grn.) rounds through it and so far no problems. Only time will tell how this upper will preform. Hoping to get 1,000 rounds through it before fall. Depends on my schedule. So far I love this upper and I am looking forward to running it hard and hopefully getting it in a class this winter.
Hope this helps some of y'all.
wolf_walker
08-20-11, 22:01
I finally got a chance to do more than some brief plinking today as well. Range was absolutely packed and I had other shooters with me, but I got a good start on an extended function check, about 4 mags worth of PMC at 2 second intervals. Zero function problem, group at 50 yards as tight as I usually am with irons, brass ejected consistently at about 2 o'clock fwiw. It is almost comical how easy it is to shoot these things, and how smooth the midlength is. Nothing worth reporting on group size as the time between cease fires was too long to get down there and pick them out (i need a spotting scope), but I suspect it will group nicely from limited observation.
Also my NiB coated LWRC trigger group was outstanding, I'm very pleased with it in general. It was even better when the SCAR next to me jammed somehow or another. :)
Planning on getting this upper for one of my new spikes lowers I built up. I currently run a spikes NiB bcg in another build I thought I had some premature wear on the cam pin(905rnds on bcg) but upon further inspection it wasn't what I misperceived, spikes still sent me a new NiB cam pin which is nice because they probably cost $6-$7 more than a plain ole' parked cam pin. Any way function of the bcg lubed and unlubed has been great, cleaning easy, HPT/MPT. Is it the best bolt you can get? Well I have a parked, HPT/MPT Rainier Arms "Thunderbolt" that has had no problems to date either and cost $100 less, I like my NiB bcg though.
I have the spikes NiB trigger group as well and it's very nice!
wolf_walker
08-21-11, 00:00
Planning on getting this upper for one of my new spikes lowers I built up. I currently run a spikes NiB bcg in another build I thought I had some premature wear on the cam pin(905rnds on bcg) but upon further inspection it wasn't what I misperceived, spikes still sent me a new NiB cam pin which is nice because they probably cost $6-$7 more than a plain ole' parked cam pin. Any way function of the bcg lubed and unlubed has been great, cleaning easy, HPT/MPT. Is it the best bolt you can get? Well I have a parked, HPT/MPT Rainier Arms "Thunderbolt" that has had no problems to date either and cost $100 less, I like my NiB bcg though.
The BCG was a big sell on this upper for the price with me, I'm a firm believer in anything that lessens the need for lube is a good thing.
Reciprocator
08-21-11, 12:33
Well I have also had it out at the range twice in the last two weeks. 300 rounds each day, with a total of 600 rounds of .223 American Eagle 55gr through the gun. Not a single double feed, stovepipe, FTF, FTE. I'm impressed with it.
I did however make a noob mistake and lube the HECK out of it (as in it was bleeding oil out of the pins) thinking it was a good idea for the break in period. I cleaned it after each 300 round session, and boy does that NiBor BCG really make cleaning a breeze.
It's a really nice piece to shoot, and as a side note the included spikes buffer does make the gun noticeably less clanky when shooting in a side-by-side comparison.
fwiw, my brass always ejects at exactly 2:00. At first I thought it was great, but the more I read I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it's a little over-gassed. I'm not going to change anything because I'm a "if it works, don't fix it" kinda guy, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. The other reason I wondered is because the brass is consistently dented midway down the case. It's been hitting the crease of the shell deflector like clockwork, which I also understand to be an over-gas symptom. My next idea is to try and run a round that isn't as hot, such as some steel case wolf and see if it changes the ejection pattern at all.
let me know what you guys think.
JeepDriver
08-21-11, 16:55
Did another 300+ today through mine.
150+ WPA (Wolf 55 gr )
150+ XM193F
Shot only at 300 yards on 8" steel. ( did burn 1 mag at 600 and only got a Single hit with the WPA ) My hits with the WPA were around 50%, with the XM193 it increased to about 70%. Pretty damn good numbers for this trigger puller.
I had no problems with either ammo or the gun. I was even shooting from CProducts mags.
wolf_walker
08-21-11, 18:18
Well I have also had it out at the range twice in the last two weeks. 300 rounds each day, with a total of 600 rounds of .223 American Eagle 55gr through the gun. Not a single double feed, stovepipe, FTF, FTE. I'm impressed with it.
I did however make a noob mistake and lube the HECK out of it (as in it was bleeding oil out of the pins) thinking it was a good idea for the break in period. I cleaned it after each 300 round session, and boy does that NiBor BCG really make cleaning a breeze.
It's a really nice piece to shoot, and as a side note the included spikes buffer does make the gun noticeably less clanky when shooting in a side-by-side comparison.
fwiw, my brass always ejects at exactly 2:00. At first I thought it was great, but the more I read I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it's a little over-gassed. I'm not going to change anything because I'm a "if it works, don't fix it" kinda guy, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. The other reason I wondered is because the brass is consistently dented midway down the case. It's been hitting the crease of the shell deflector like clockwork, which I also understand to be an over-gas symptom. My next idea is to try and run a round that isn't as hot, such as some steel case wolf and see if it changes the ejection pattern at all.
let me know what you guys think.
Same ejection point on mine but I don't see that it's hitting the shell deflector at all on any of them. It was extremely consistent in it's empty placement, don't know if that is indicative of anything on an AR or not. I was kneeling and using a shoulder height rest at one point, and there was a 4x4 post at my 2pm about three feet away and every round in the mag hit that post and fell in a pile at the base of it, everyone kinda looked at it and said "huh". I like it myself, keeps from dinging the guy next to you if there is one. Seems like my old M1A did that years ago too.
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