View Full Version : M&P problems with oxidizing
there was some talk of M&P's rusting!? As slide is stainless is the problem with the melonite processs which deposits ferous oxide on the surface. I really like the M&P as does my better half so thinking of getting a couple.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Old news.
There was a finish problem with some of the very first models. It has since been corrected.
arcticlightfighter
08-02-11, 08:42
Old news.
There was a finish problem with some of the very first models. It has since been corrected.
Agreed. My early M&P9c is very prone to rust but my other 3 newer production are rust free.
S&W fixed this issue many moons ago.
C4
Beat Trash
08-02-11, 10:21
I've had a M&P9 as a issued duty gun since 2006. Never had an issue with rusting. Some of the early magazines (the shiny ones) had issues.
I am simply amazed at some of the internet chatter bashing the M&P. I'm only going off of a sample of 1,150 9mm guns in the field since 2006. If the internet were to be believed, we should be screaming into the night about POS guns! In reality, not so much...
Any manufacture out there will have an occasional issue pop up with an occasional gun. The thing to look at is if there is a pattern indicating an issue with the design. And how willing the company is to stand behind their product.
Take your better half and go pick out a couple of M&P's.
Bashing? It is a fact that nitride on stainless can reduce the corrosion resistance. The nitride process can make CrN out of the chromium.
Chromium is the reason stainless steel is more corrosion resistant, it forms a layer of chromium oxide that does not continue to corrode like iron oxide. If the free chromium content is too low corrosion resistance is reduced.
Both the material and nitride process can be altered to improve corrosion resistance, Grant's response that it has been fixed means there were at least some problems.
Todd,
I think BT is simply saying that the "issues" are there although contrary to what is said on the internet they are not as prevalent as the WWW would have you believe.
I personally had a 2008 production 4.25 inch 9MM that would rust if i looked at it wrong.
ALL of my new production guns are as rust resistant as my Glocks.
Alpha Sierra
08-02-11, 13:38
Bashing? It is a fact that nitride on stainless can reduce the corrosion resistance. The nitride process can make CrN out of the chromium.
Chromium is the reason stainless steel is more corrosion resistant, it forms a layer of chromium oxide that does not continue to corrode like iron oxide. If the free chromium content is too low corrosion resistance is reduced.
Both the material and nitride process can be altered to improve corrosion resistance, Grant's response that it has been fixed means there were at least some problems.
Not only that, but many do not know that any stainless in its untreated state is likely to rust (some more than others) unless it is passivated in nitric or citric acid solutions.
I have an M&P9c from 2007. I bought it used in, I think, January of this year. In fact, I received a lot of help and good info from Beat Trash regarding the purchase, evaluating a used M&P, maintenance etc.
I have around 900 rounds through it (on the black striker) and I don't know how many dry fires. I've never had a malfunction of any kind, even with the crappiest ammo. A lot of the things I was concerned about just haven't been an issue.
As to rust, I have on one or two occasions, put the gun away with only a quick wipe down after shooting it in wet weather or hiking with it etc. I did notice a very small amount of rust on the serrations on the slide. I mean a very small, have to look very close to see it, amount. It wiped off with a dry cloth.
I don't know if that is abnormal for pistols in general, but it happens on my hunting rifles, my 870 or anything else I use in the field and get wet. One time when I was in high school I got a little pitting on a Savage .308, but I it sat in that condition for inappropriate amount of time.
I wouldn't worry about it with the M&P. My newer one has never done this, and I really enjoy shooting both. My wife shoots them both often as well, and really likes the mild recoil and lack of muzzle flip.
Small amounts of surface rust on the slide of my 2009 M&P9FS (purchased new this year). I'm sending it back to S&W tomorrow to have them take a look.
While my 2010 production M&P9 did not have rusting with the slide, the slide stop & takedown lever rusted very easily.
so looks like half say no problem while others??????
again gent above said slide showed rust in the serrations , I ask again as slide is stainless is it the melonite that is causing this or poor grade of stainless ???? Does anybody REALLY KNOW ?
I really like the feel of the M&P over the Glock but w Glock there is no worries in regards to finish...so I'm on the fence.
Not trying to "troll" looking for real answers, and not internet hype,( and I don't think the rust thing IS hype) , not am I looking for internet false affirmations that the problem does not exist....just to clarify.
Grunt,
Do you clean your firearms every now and then?
If so, im assuming you put a thin coat of oil on the steel regardless of finish?
If so, you're good to go, dont worry about it. You're over thinking an "issue" that is not going to have any bearing whatsoever on the performance, "carryability" or shootability of the firearm.
From a durability standpoint, my oldest 4.25 inch gun which developed rust was never returned to S&W and went upwards of 60k rounds before i retired it. The pin head rust present on the slide never went any further than being pin head rust.
My full size M&P9 from Sept 2009 will develop a small amount of rust on the slide if not cleaned for long periods of time. It comes off easily with CLP, and I have not felt the need to send it back in.
Bashing? It is a fact that nitride on stainless can reduce the corrosion resistance. The nitride process can make CrN out of the chromium.
Chromium is the reason stainless steel is more corrosion resistant, it forms a layer of chromium oxide that does not continue to corrode like iron oxide. If the free chromium content is too low corrosion resistance is reduced.
Both the material and nitride process can be altered to improve corrosion resistance, Grant's response that it has been fixed means there were at least some problems.
I have long puzzled over S&W's dogged insistence on sticking with stainless, and subjecting it to the nitride bath, a process that will very definitely break down the chromium content of stainless.
Clearly their is some benefit, a theraputic window where the acid bath imparts a dividend to the stainless steel, however whenever their vendor exceeds it, some folks are going to get inferior slides...
Doesn't anyone here understand the difference between 300 series Stainless Steel and 400 series?
300 won't "rust" per say but I wouldn't want a gun or a slide made out of it.
400 will "rust" but it can be hardened which the manufacturer needs to make a slide/gun that will hold up. As far as I know all guns are made from 400 and will "rust" unless you use some sort of prevention on it.
Think of the Melonite as a hard candy coat shell protecting the base material from wear.
I see all kinds of b!tching about the slides getting tiny rust spots, don't you guys perform maintenance on your firearms? Take any gun wear it close to the body and sweat, it'll rust.
I have used Rig grease for 20 years without an issue. Take your gun out, clear it and wipe it down with a Rig rag once a week and you'll keep your sidearm looking good for years.
If I was Smith&Wesson I would send back the guns with rust on them and tell the people to stop neglecting maintenance on a tool that may some day save your life or the life of someone you love.
so looks like half say no problem while others??????
again gent above said slide showed rust in the serrations , I ask again as slide is stainless is it the melonite that is causing this or poor grade of stainless ???? Does anybody REALLY KNOW ?
I really like the feel of the M&P over the Glock but w Glock there is no worries in regards to finish...so I'm on the fence.
Not trying to "troll" looking for real answers, and not internet hype,( and I don't think the rust thing IS hype) , not am I looking for internet false affirmations that the problem does not exist....just to clarify.
Glocks rust also.
I don't know of any gun that is rust "proof".
Doesn't anyone here understand the difference between 300 series Stainless Steel and 400 series?
300 won't "rust" per say but I wouldn't want a gun or a slide made out of it.
400 will "rust" but it can be hardened which the manufacturer needs to make a slide/gun that will hold up. As far as I know all guns are made from 400 and will "rust" unless you use some sort of prevention on it.
Think of the Melonite as a hard candy coat shell protecting the base material from wear.
I see all kinds of b!tching about the slides getting tiny rust spots, don't you guys perform maintenance on your firearms? Take any gun wear it close to the body and sweat, it'll rust.
I have used Rig grease for 20 years without an issue. Take your gun out, clear it and wipe it down with a Rig rag once a week and you'll keep your sidearm looking good for years.
If I was Smith&Wesson I would send back the guns with rust on them and tell the people to stop neglecting maintenance on a tool that may some day save your life or the life of someone you love.
:lol:
C4
Beat Trash
08-04-11, 09:39
If I was Smith&Wesson I would send back the guns with rust on them and tell the people to stop neglecting maintenance on a tool that may some day save your life or the life of someone you love.
Kind of makes one wonder how guns survived all those years before Melonite and Tenifer coatings. Even before guns were made with stainless steel.
I personally know of several gentlemen who carried blued steel J-frames, S&W 19's and Colt 1911's for years. The blueing was worn in spots, but there wasn't any rust on these character filled guns. Makes me wonder how they pulled it off.
Kind of makes one wonder how guns survived all those years before Melonite and Tenifer coatings. Even before guns were made with stainless steel.
I personally know of several gentlemen who carried blued steel J-frames, S&W 19's and Colt 1911's for years. The blueing was worn in spots, but there wasn't any rust on these character filled guns. Makes me wonder how they pulled it off.
Good question. Most people treat their guns like they treat their lawn mower (or worse). Then, they expect the gun to:
1. Always run.
2. Never rust.
3. Command more money than what they paid for it.
C4
Kind of makes one wonder how guns survived all those years before Melonite and Tenifer coatings. Even before guns were made with stainless steel.
I personally know of several gentlemen who carried blued steel J-frames, S&W 19's and Colt 1911's for years. The blueing was worn in spots, but there wasn't any rust on these character filled guns. Makes me wonder how they pulled it off.
I am sure they took better care of there firearms than most. The blueing of years ago was a lot better than what they do today. Colt and S&W had some of the deepest, but those days are gone.
:lol:
C4
Grant is ABSOLUTELY correct. since he sells a ton to civies, i bet he knows a lot about maintance and the lack there of. i also buy my smith's from him.
we are a trg company and see more smiths per month than usual shooters. they run fine. a lot of this questioning is maintenance/or neglect.
i personally own NINE (9) smiths. not 1 has ever ever had a malf or failure to fire. schools in rain sleet sun snow, whatever.
i have Glocks, Springfield plastic guns work fine, very reliable also.
keep them all clean and lubed mmmm a trend maybe ?????????
i am 1st & always a 1911 and HP guy. but only for 40 yrs or so in maybe 15 countries. i shoot them better, like them better, more comfortable. dont shoot plastic as well as 1911's, but will last forever.
also have 60 or so mags @28rds ea. probably get by.
BUUUUT my otd guns are Smiths and 1 glock thrown in the bag. will NOT be standing at the gun safe door confused. o.t.d. bags marked with surveyors orange tape.
2 m-4 lowers
2 sbr uppers
1 spr upper with n/f scope
6 Smith's/ 60 mags.
a metric shit load of 75 gr tap
a metric shit load of 124 gr +p+
the guns work. maybe the shooters need cleaning
IMHO
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