outrider627
08-02-11, 21:04
Want to give an update on my experiment in upgrading my dad's G17 that I wrote about here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85733). I did this whole thing for a few reasons:
1. My dad wanted the lighter trigger the Glock "-" connector provided.
2. I wanted to find a trigger combination that had the lighter pull of the "-" connector, but without the creep.
3. I was slightly bored. :D Also, whatever I would learn about glock triggers would finally persuade me into getting a Glock 19 for carry duty sooner than later.
So let's begin. Excuse my naming of certain glock parts, they might not be the correct terms. Hopefully you'll understand what I mean. Where ever I refer to a "1st stage" of the trigger means the part of the trigger pull where the firing pin safety is being disengaged by the trigger bar. Likewise when I say "2nd stage," I'm talking about the point where the trigger bar meets the connector.
Since this is a Gen 1 glock with original black internal parts, I bought new parts. I can still go back to unmodified stock parts if I ever need to. Here's a picture that shows the difference between the Gen 1 and post-1992 internals:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2830/gupgrade.jpg
The first part I replaced was the firing pin safety. I did not feel confident in my ability to correctly polish and radius a new factory FPS, so I bought the Lightning Strike titanium FPS. It's a very nice little piece. It's a night and day difference when compared to the original FPS. The picture above shows the wrong shape for the FPS. It is not a straight cylinder, there is an angle on the bottom which gives somewhat of a dome shape. The original part has very sharp lines separating the vertical side, the angle where trigger bar slides on, and the horizontal flat where the trigger bar comes to stop on. The horizontal flat area also has very visible tool marks and is not smooth at all. The edge of the flat where it meets the angle has a small raised edge to it, like the flat was machined lower than it should have been. The titanium one has no sharp points at all. It is a very smooth curve from the sides of the FPS, to the horizontal flat. I also noticed it was slightly taller than the original FPS. The Lightning Strike FPS included a Wolff spring, which I assume is the current factory spec (based on my email with them on another spring where they mentioned all Wolff springs are factory spec unless otherwise noted) and therefore is stronger than the Gen 1 FPS spring.
To fully benefit from a rounded FPS, I also installed a newer OEM trigger bar. As you can see in the photo above, the sharp point from the FPS interface was removed. I polished all the contact points on the new trigger bar. I also rounded the trigger safety to match the contour of the trigger face. My dad once told me he never did like how he could feel the difference in shape between the safety and the trigger face. A few passes with a small half round file and now the safety is barely taller than the trigger face when fully pressed. A much more uniform feel across the trigger face.
These new parts made a such a drastic difference during the 1st stage of the trigger pull. With the original trigger bar and FPS, I could definitely feel and hear the trigger bar dragging on the FPS. The sharp edges on the trigger bar and the FPS produced an audible click whenever they contacted while pulling the trigger. With the new parts, its like the FPS isn't even there. The first part of the trigger pull is incredibly smooth now. Its a totally different feel. If you have a Gen 1 or Gen 2 with the original black internal parts, replace the trigger bar with the newer design and get a polished and rounded FPS. I'm not sure if owners of Gen 3s will notice such a big difference since they already have the rounded trigger bar ramp. I started from a much worse position than Gen 3 owners.
The second part of my search for a better glock trigger was swapping out the connector and trigger spring, and trying different combinations. For this I bought the Ghost Ranger 4.5 connector and a Glockmeister Competition trigger spring. I already had the Glock "-" connector (formerly called the 3.5, now its 4.5) and the NY1 spring, along with the factory 5.5. I'll try to go over each individually.
Connectors
All glock owners know the stock 5.5 connector, so I won't spend too much time going of it. Compared to the Glock 3.5 and Ghost Ranger, the second stage begins later in the pull than the other two and it has the shortest reset of the three.
The Ghost 4.5 Ranger is something I recently read about. It intrigued me because a member here compared it to the new Glock dot connector in the Gen 4s, and even though I couldn't find many reviews about it, the few I did read were positive. I also wasn't a big fan of the 3.5 connector's increased creep, so I took a shot in the dark and ordered a Ranger. Comparing it back to back with the 3.5 and 5.5, I found that the Ranger was indeed a midpoint between the two glock connectors when comparing creep and trigger weight. It was lighter than the 5.5, but did not have the creep of the 3.5. As of now its my favorite of the three connectors. The Ranger came slightly polished, but I still took a Q-tip with some Flitz to it.
The 3.5 connector has also been covered many times, so I'll only stick the basics. After polishing the trigger bar contact point, it certainly was the lightest of the three connectors. For those who don't know, the 3.5 connector achieves a lighter trigger pull by changing the angle where the trigger bar makes contact. The angle of the 3.5 makes the trigger bar connect with it earlier than the Ranger and 5.5. This earlier contact gives an increased feeling of creep because the trigger bar is in contact with the connector for a little bit longer than the other two.
There is one issue with the 3.5 connector I encountered. When testing the reset of the 3.5, I found that the trigger would sometimes fail to reset if my finger was holding down the trigger as I racked the slide. With the orange glock armorer slide plate installed, I saw that the striker was occasionally not catching the trigger bar as it returned to firing position. I first noticed it with the original trigger bar and a coil-less NY1 trigger spring. I thought it was the lack of the NY1 coil and the old trigger bar not being designed for the 3.5 connector, but it happened again with the newer trigger bar and one of the other trigger springs. Has anyone ever had this problem before?
Trigger Springs
Not much to say of the stock trigger spring. I'll just use it as a comparison against the other two trigger springs. Unlike the NY1 spring, the stock trigger spring is a coil spring that naturally rests in a compressed position. This helps in pulling the trigger. The NY1 on the other hand rests in an expanded position.
The second spring I tried was the NY1 spring. A commonly talked about combination online is the 3.5/NY1. The 3.5 lowers the trigger pull weight, but the NY1 offsets the decrease and gives the trigger a very revolver like feel. In every combination I tried, the NY1 spring made the trigger feel a lot like my target hammer and trigger equipped S&W Model 19. The NY1 gives a very strong reset and considerably firms up the trigger, to point where sometimes it was hard to tell when the trigger entered the second stage. A variation of the 3.5/NY1 is to remove the coil spring, and rely on the plastic frame of the NY1 spring. Removing the coil spring reduced the trigger pull weight by about a pound. The trigger still had a revolver like feel to it, but just not as firm.
The third spring is the Glockmeister Competition Spring. This is similar to the stock coil spring in that it naturally helps pull the trigger back because of its compressed rest form. It helps even more so than the stock spring because the spring is rated at 6lbs, and I believe the stock one is 5lbs. Upon first installing it, once the trigger safety cleared the frame cutout, the trigger moved back on its own. The 1st stage was almost non-existent. I felt that my finger was trying to catch up to the trigger's natural backward movement. I also experienced some reset problems with the GM spring. The rearward pressure was so strong that the trigger did not fully reset the first few times I tested it. The trigger would move forward, but not enough for the trigger safety to clear the frame cutout. After some time being installed in the gun and some dry firing, these problems went away. The spring certainly did live up to its claim of lightening the trigger pull. On average, the Glockmeister trigger spring reduced the trigger about .5 pounds with all three connectors.
Here's a list of trigger pull weights that I recorded. These are approximations because of the trigger safety interfering with a clear reading:
5.5 Connector/Stock Spring: 6 lbs
5.5 Connector/GM Spring [newly installed spring]: 5.5lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ NY1 Spring: 7.0lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ NY1 No Coil: 6.0lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ Stock Spring: 5.0 lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ GM Spring: 4.5lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/NY1 Spring: 7.0lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/NY1 No Coil: 6.0lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/Stock T Spring: 4.5lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/GM Spring: 4.0lbs
I certainly do have a number of glock trigger options to really think about and try out some more. I'm still baffled by the 3.5 connector reset problems. I hadn't seen anything like that during previous dry fire practice or at the range. Maybe it was a fluke? Installation error? Until I figure it out, the Ghost Ranger is staying in the 17. As for the trigger spring, I'm not sure which one I'll go with yet. I like the Ranger/GM spring for its light pull, but I also like the NY1 spring because its close to my S&W 19. I need to go to range and try both.
For those who saw my wall of text and thought TL;DR, here are the cliffnotes :p:
- Original Gen 1 internals felt like crap
- Polished and rounded firing pin safety + Gen 3 trigger bar is flippin' amazing. Much better than the Gen 1 parts.
- I like the Ghost 4.5 Ranger connector. My favorite of the three connectors I tried.
- Minor issues with Glock "-" connector. Need to test it more.
- Still undecided on trigger spring. Do I go for a lighter pull or heavier like a revolver for carry duty?
1. My dad wanted the lighter trigger the Glock "-" connector provided.
2. I wanted to find a trigger combination that had the lighter pull of the "-" connector, but without the creep.
3. I was slightly bored. :D Also, whatever I would learn about glock triggers would finally persuade me into getting a Glock 19 for carry duty sooner than later.
So let's begin. Excuse my naming of certain glock parts, they might not be the correct terms. Hopefully you'll understand what I mean. Where ever I refer to a "1st stage" of the trigger means the part of the trigger pull where the firing pin safety is being disengaged by the trigger bar. Likewise when I say "2nd stage," I'm talking about the point where the trigger bar meets the connector.
Since this is a Gen 1 glock with original black internal parts, I bought new parts. I can still go back to unmodified stock parts if I ever need to. Here's a picture that shows the difference between the Gen 1 and post-1992 internals:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2830/gupgrade.jpg
The first part I replaced was the firing pin safety. I did not feel confident in my ability to correctly polish and radius a new factory FPS, so I bought the Lightning Strike titanium FPS. It's a very nice little piece. It's a night and day difference when compared to the original FPS. The picture above shows the wrong shape for the FPS. It is not a straight cylinder, there is an angle on the bottom which gives somewhat of a dome shape. The original part has very sharp lines separating the vertical side, the angle where trigger bar slides on, and the horizontal flat where the trigger bar comes to stop on. The horizontal flat area also has very visible tool marks and is not smooth at all. The edge of the flat where it meets the angle has a small raised edge to it, like the flat was machined lower than it should have been. The titanium one has no sharp points at all. It is a very smooth curve from the sides of the FPS, to the horizontal flat. I also noticed it was slightly taller than the original FPS. The Lightning Strike FPS included a Wolff spring, which I assume is the current factory spec (based on my email with them on another spring where they mentioned all Wolff springs are factory spec unless otherwise noted) and therefore is stronger than the Gen 1 FPS spring.
To fully benefit from a rounded FPS, I also installed a newer OEM trigger bar. As you can see in the photo above, the sharp point from the FPS interface was removed. I polished all the contact points on the new trigger bar. I also rounded the trigger safety to match the contour of the trigger face. My dad once told me he never did like how he could feel the difference in shape between the safety and the trigger face. A few passes with a small half round file and now the safety is barely taller than the trigger face when fully pressed. A much more uniform feel across the trigger face.
These new parts made a such a drastic difference during the 1st stage of the trigger pull. With the original trigger bar and FPS, I could definitely feel and hear the trigger bar dragging on the FPS. The sharp edges on the trigger bar and the FPS produced an audible click whenever they contacted while pulling the trigger. With the new parts, its like the FPS isn't even there. The first part of the trigger pull is incredibly smooth now. Its a totally different feel. If you have a Gen 1 or Gen 2 with the original black internal parts, replace the trigger bar with the newer design and get a polished and rounded FPS. I'm not sure if owners of Gen 3s will notice such a big difference since they already have the rounded trigger bar ramp. I started from a much worse position than Gen 3 owners.
The second part of my search for a better glock trigger was swapping out the connector and trigger spring, and trying different combinations. For this I bought the Ghost Ranger 4.5 connector and a Glockmeister Competition trigger spring. I already had the Glock "-" connector (formerly called the 3.5, now its 4.5) and the NY1 spring, along with the factory 5.5. I'll try to go over each individually.
Connectors
All glock owners know the stock 5.5 connector, so I won't spend too much time going of it. Compared to the Glock 3.5 and Ghost Ranger, the second stage begins later in the pull than the other two and it has the shortest reset of the three.
The Ghost 4.5 Ranger is something I recently read about. It intrigued me because a member here compared it to the new Glock dot connector in the Gen 4s, and even though I couldn't find many reviews about it, the few I did read were positive. I also wasn't a big fan of the 3.5 connector's increased creep, so I took a shot in the dark and ordered a Ranger. Comparing it back to back with the 3.5 and 5.5, I found that the Ranger was indeed a midpoint between the two glock connectors when comparing creep and trigger weight. It was lighter than the 5.5, but did not have the creep of the 3.5. As of now its my favorite of the three connectors. The Ranger came slightly polished, but I still took a Q-tip with some Flitz to it.
The 3.5 connector has also been covered many times, so I'll only stick the basics. After polishing the trigger bar contact point, it certainly was the lightest of the three connectors. For those who don't know, the 3.5 connector achieves a lighter trigger pull by changing the angle where the trigger bar makes contact. The angle of the 3.5 makes the trigger bar connect with it earlier than the Ranger and 5.5. This earlier contact gives an increased feeling of creep because the trigger bar is in contact with the connector for a little bit longer than the other two.
There is one issue with the 3.5 connector I encountered. When testing the reset of the 3.5, I found that the trigger would sometimes fail to reset if my finger was holding down the trigger as I racked the slide. With the orange glock armorer slide plate installed, I saw that the striker was occasionally not catching the trigger bar as it returned to firing position. I first noticed it with the original trigger bar and a coil-less NY1 trigger spring. I thought it was the lack of the NY1 coil and the old trigger bar not being designed for the 3.5 connector, but it happened again with the newer trigger bar and one of the other trigger springs. Has anyone ever had this problem before?
Trigger Springs
Not much to say of the stock trigger spring. I'll just use it as a comparison against the other two trigger springs. Unlike the NY1 spring, the stock trigger spring is a coil spring that naturally rests in a compressed position. This helps in pulling the trigger. The NY1 on the other hand rests in an expanded position.
The second spring I tried was the NY1 spring. A commonly talked about combination online is the 3.5/NY1. The 3.5 lowers the trigger pull weight, but the NY1 offsets the decrease and gives the trigger a very revolver like feel. In every combination I tried, the NY1 spring made the trigger feel a lot like my target hammer and trigger equipped S&W Model 19. The NY1 gives a very strong reset and considerably firms up the trigger, to point where sometimes it was hard to tell when the trigger entered the second stage. A variation of the 3.5/NY1 is to remove the coil spring, and rely on the plastic frame of the NY1 spring. Removing the coil spring reduced the trigger pull weight by about a pound. The trigger still had a revolver like feel to it, but just not as firm.
The third spring is the Glockmeister Competition Spring. This is similar to the stock coil spring in that it naturally helps pull the trigger back because of its compressed rest form. It helps even more so than the stock spring because the spring is rated at 6lbs, and I believe the stock one is 5lbs. Upon first installing it, once the trigger safety cleared the frame cutout, the trigger moved back on its own. The 1st stage was almost non-existent. I felt that my finger was trying to catch up to the trigger's natural backward movement. I also experienced some reset problems with the GM spring. The rearward pressure was so strong that the trigger did not fully reset the first few times I tested it. The trigger would move forward, but not enough for the trigger safety to clear the frame cutout. After some time being installed in the gun and some dry firing, these problems went away. The spring certainly did live up to its claim of lightening the trigger pull. On average, the Glockmeister trigger spring reduced the trigger about .5 pounds with all three connectors.
Here's a list of trigger pull weights that I recorded. These are approximations because of the trigger safety interfering with a clear reading:
5.5 Connector/Stock Spring: 6 lbs
5.5 Connector/GM Spring [newly installed spring]: 5.5lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ NY1 Spring: 7.0lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ NY1 No Coil: 6.0lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ Stock Spring: 5.0 lbs
4.5 Ghost Ranger/ GM Spring: 4.5lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/NY1 Spring: 7.0lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/NY1 No Coil: 6.0lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/Stock T Spring: 4.5lbs
Glock 3.5 Connector/GM Spring: 4.0lbs
I certainly do have a number of glock trigger options to really think about and try out some more. I'm still baffled by the 3.5 connector reset problems. I hadn't seen anything like that during previous dry fire practice or at the range. Maybe it was a fluke? Installation error? Until I figure it out, the Ghost Ranger is staying in the 17. As for the trigger spring, I'm not sure which one I'll go with yet. I like the Ranger/GM spring for its light pull, but I also like the NY1 spring because its close to my S&W 19. I need to go to range and try both.
For those who saw my wall of text and thought TL;DR, here are the cliffnotes :p:
- Original Gen 1 internals felt like crap
- Polished and rounded firing pin safety + Gen 3 trigger bar is flippin' amazing. Much better than the Gen 1 parts.
- I like the Ghost 4.5 Ranger connector. My favorite of the three connectors I tried.
- Minor issues with Glock "-" connector. Need to test it more.
- Still undecided on trigger spring. Do I go for a lighter pull or heavier like a revolver for carry duty?