View Full Version : Airline Insurance
Has anyone recently traveled with weapons and was able to actually insure them?
I was recently told by a member here that one could still obtain insurance. Well, I just got off the phone with Access America [(800-419-8016] - the insurer for Delta, American, United and Continental - and online purchases apparently are limited to only $500.
Seems like the "best" way is to have your contents sent from one FFL to another a couple of days prior to your flight.
Sorry if this has been discussed before. If it has please lock or delete it.
Thanks in advance.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-03-11, 00:16
I'll just throw out some thoughts and ideas.
-A missing gun at the airport I think is going to cause a lot of interest? Scumbags are everywhere, but I'm thinking the heat from TSA/DHS/ATF on a missing gun in a secure area would be a pretty good deterent from baggage handlers getting sticky fingers?
Ship it to yourself at the hotel where you are staying? FFL fees are pretty harsh when you add them up.
I've had guns shipped back to me from manufacturers and had them held at the sort facility in town where I've gone and picked them up. Beats waiting around all day for the UPS guy all day. You would just have to be sure you had enough time to pick it up before the class started. I would think UPS/FedEx would do it, I'd check first.
Mailing gives you an option of insuring it that way.
A nice stick, a back-up nice stick plus optics and sidearms for a class can get to be a pretty penny fast!
Someone correct me if I am wrong. I believe that you can ship a firearm to yourself in another state and avoid FFL fees, as long as it is going to you.
So in theory you would send it to an address where you would be staying in that other state.
I think if you have certain high end CC's (like platinum AMEX) they provide insurance. I also know that by using this card, I did not have to pay for ANY of my bags to be checked (two per person on Delta).
C4
Just ship it to yourself. Most guys I know will ship it to the class host's address to themselves C/O(care of) the class host.
Gutshot John
08-03-11, 10:20
You can ship long guns to yourself (I've done it), you can't ship handguns.
My "TSA approved" case has evidence of someone trying to pry it open once when it was "misplaced" during a direct flight to NC for a shooting class.
I've also had other gear stolen (MSA Sordin earpro for example) by persons entrusted with the "security" of American air travel. :bad:
Thanks for that. For some reason I thought handguns were a go as long as you were the recipient.
You can ship long guns to yourself (I've done it), you can't ship handguns.
My "TSA approved" case has evidence of someone trying to pry it open once when it was "misplaced" during a direct flight to NC for a shooting class.
I've also had other gear stolen (MSA Sordin earpro for example) by persons entrusted with the "security" of American air travel. :bad:
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
Source (BATFE site):
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps
The site clearly states "firearms" and not specifically "rifles" or "shotguns." So It would safe to assume that you can send a handgun as well.
Fully legal example I can think of is the following: You have one of those couple of CCW licenses that affords you the ability to carry concealed in like 32 States. But you are flying to one of those states and you desire to legally carry concealed. Ship the handgun to yourself (hotel, friend's place, etc) and you should be good to go.
1_click_off
08-03-11, 10:59
Do not use USPS. They will confiscate firearms. Use FedEx, UPS, etc.....
I stand corrected by Iraqguns. I was going from information given to me by Kahr Arms when I was speaking with them about returning my pistol for repair. I have since looked at the rules and I indeed provide false information. I apologize and will be more careful in future posts.
Rules: http://www.cgwgun.com/shipping/usps.aspx
militarymoron
08-03-11, 11:39
PM jason falla - he flies all the time with his guns for training classes.
Jason Falla
08-03-11, 18:15
PM jason falla - he flies all the time with his guns for training classes.
Yeah this is an interesting topic. Traveling with guns really hasn't posed a problem for me yet! (touch wood). These are my words of advice for the tactical traveller!
1. Check the regulations for "traveling with guns" with your preferred air carrier. (The more you know the better. You will end up knowing the laws better than the check in agent. That's a double edged sword!)
2. Suck up the excess baggage charges. (travel with your guns on the same flight as you. Use a Pelican style, hard sided case with approved TSA padlocks. Even if you are only traveling with a pistol, I would check it in a large Pelican case. This will deter the sticky fingered baggage handler from swiping your goods!)
3. Don't pack more guns in one case than the regulations allow. (I mention this because I ran into this one traveling to a military training course out of state. I needed to get 3 carbines and 2 pistols to the activity. The regulations state that the limit is 3 weapons per case. I had to do some quick thinking and broke the weapons down so they just looked like parts and not complete guns! This worked on this occasion but I wouldn't rely on it.)
4. Give yourself an extra 30 mins prior to departure. (This will account for the check agent that has never dealt with the tactical traveler!)
5. Do a 100% check for live rounds. (Check and check again for the presence of live rounds "not in original packaging" in your gun case or kit bag. I was taken off a flight and ordered to report to the TSA baggage scanning area only to find the TSA agent holding a single 9mm round in his hand and a Dirty Harry look on his face! I grabbed the round from him, ran outside and tossed it into a garbage can. Then ran back to my flight! I couldn't miss this one as I was upgraded to business class!)
6. Check the limitations on traveling with live rounds. (I think it is 11lbs total. This equates to about 400 rounds. Not enough for a high round count class, so you might need to ship the bullets or procure them at the other end. You can have the rounds in your gun case so long as they are in original packaging. I traveled back from Miami with 400 rounds of 9mm in boxes in my carbine case.)
7. Look like a military service member! (This is not easy for everyone to pull off, but when done correctly you can steamline some of the processing and the agents and TSA don't look at you like a terrorist when they open up your gun case and see the man slayer complete with flashlights and lasers!)
8. Don't place any gung-ho ass kickin stickers on your gun case. (This will only draw more attention from sticky fingers tossing your luggage around like an olympic discus thrower!)
9. Weigh your gun case prior to arriving at the check in if possible. (Get a cheapish luggage weighing device to check the total packed weight of your heaters before you get to the airport. This will stop the three card monty act of transferring sights and magazines from your gun case to your soft bag in front of 40 frustrated travelers.)
10. Let the check in agent know that you are checking guns. (You will need to fill in a red card, stating that the weapons are unloaded. The agent will also log the guns into the system and your luggage tag will have a special notation (coded) that distinguishes that particular bag as containing guns.
11. Don't use your gun case to store any explosive material! (This seems like it's common sense but, I have a case that contained large amounts of explosive material and I must remember not to travel with it, unless I want to spend several hours explaining myself to TSA finest!)
12. Make sure that your weapons are unloaded with magazines removed. (The check in agent will always ask if your guns are unloaded. Normally with a terrified facial expression! TSA will also open your case, swipe with explosive material and ask for your red card if not already in case and your padlocks. Play along with there rules and regulations, even though your clearly know more about shooting then they do! Don't miss your flight due to an argument with the frosty TSA agent over THEIR rules!)
13. Keep your ID handy at the other end! (If you are traveling to and from an airport that has plenty of military personnel traveling through it. Norfolk International is a good example. You will have to show ID to reclaim your gun case. This will normally be done at the claim office. However, if traveling though the left wing regions like the Republic of Kalifornia, be sure to keep your eyes up looking for your gun case. It will most likely get spat out of the conveyer belt or at the oversized baggage claim area. So position yourself to keep eyes on both areas so no pilferer looking for a five fingered discount on your guns walks off with your case!)
14. Be prepared for your guns to be a no show! (If you have any tight connections or delay due to fowl weather or booking with American Airlines! Be prepared to be separated from your tools of Jihad destruction. I haven't lost any weapons traveling to this point. I have had some tight connections resulting in a delay of my guns arriving on the next flight. So when booking flights, keep connections generous and be flexible at the other end.
Final thoughts, there is always a risk traveling with your guns. But so long as you follow all of the rules and regulations put out by the Airlines and TSA you should be in good shape for you training trip. Follow my tips for the tactical traveller and it should relieve some of the heart burn associated with bringing your guns with you!
Happy travels!
Please do not post if you are posting wrong information. Long guns may be sent USPS. It is in their own policies. I have done it and so have others here, I am sure.
Do not use USPS. They will confiscate firearms. Use FedEx, UPS, etc.....
militarymoron
08-03-11, 18:57
thanks for chiming in, jason - we appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response! those are good tips.
Jason Falla
08-03-11, 19:19
No probs brother, that's what I'm here for!
Don Robison
08-03-11, 19:29
You can ship long guns to yourself (I've done it), you can't ship handguns.
My "TSA approved" case has evidence of someone trying to pry it open once when it was "misplaced" during a direct flight to NC for a shooting class.
I've also had other gear stolen (MSA Sordin earpro for example) by persons entrusted with the "security" of American air travel. :bad:
The ATF doesn't make any distinction between handgun or long gun, but getting a shipper to do it would be the issue. I've mailed handguns to myself in the past, but it took two days of back and forth on the phone with UPS.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
The ATF doesn't make any distinction between handgun or long gun, but getting a shipper to do it would be the issue. I've mailed handguns to myself in the past, but it took two days of back and forth on the phone with UPS.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional
And this (shipping to yourself) is actually one of the situations that 18 USC 922(e) requires that you notify the carrier that your package contains a firearm. That wouldn't apply (per the aforementioned section of the USC) if it is going to an FFL.
2. Suck up the excess baggage charges. (travel with your guns on the same flight as you. Use a Pelican style, hard sided case with approved TSA padlocks. Even if you are only traveling with a pistol, I would check it in a large Pelican case. This will deter the sticky fingered baggage handler from swiping your goods!)
Some airlines MAY allow your gun case to be considered "sporting goods" like a set of ski's or a snowboard and you would not be hit with excess baggage fees since usually 1 item of sporting goods are exempt. Although if your ticket is a cheap ass ticket anyway you are probably paying for the first bag.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-11, 01:52
You can go with big cases to reduce handling people from walking off with them, but a big pelican case screamings- expensive or fun stuff. When I travel with handguns, I put the 2-gun pelican case inside another suitcase. Camouflage like all the the other black roll on bags.
montanadave
08-04-11, 06:46
Would it be possible to create a "sticky" thread containing properly vetted posts with current information about traveling with firearms and shipping firearms/parts, such as the one provided by Jason in this thread?
Seems like these types of questions come up fairly frequently and consolidating accurate information in one place would be very useful, given the number of members who travel to and from training classes and those who ship firearms for custom work, etc.
1_click_off
08-04-11, 16:05
Please do not post if you are posting wrong information. Long guns may be sent USPS. It is in their own policies. I have done it and so have others here, I am sure.
I have edited my post.
We ship guns a lot FEDEX to our hotels and host overnight next day etc... pelican and storm cases are the order of the day
Now for flights we use NON TSA locks i use mater short hasp padlocks
to keep the cases from even opening a we bit
TSA has NO right to be in your gun cases without you there i have there regs printed out with me highlighted in bold red text it has been used more than once
(Jason, Please excuse me if im misunderstanding your term of TSA approved locks, your accent messes me up LOL)
Jason Falla
08-04-11, 17:44
We ship guns a lot FEDEX to our hotels and host overnight next day etc... pelican and storm cases are the order of the day
Now for flights we use NON TSA locks i use mater short hasp padlocks
to keep the cases from even opening a we bit
TSA has NO right to be in your gun cases without you there i have there regs printed out with me highlighted in bold red text it has been used more than once
(Jason, Please excuse me if im misunderstanding your term of TSA approved locks, your accent messes me up LOL)
Yep, sorry about that! It's hard to write in an American accent you know :)
TSA approved (A padlock that meets or exceeds their standards). Try to ensure that your pelican case will not open even with the locks in place. I always receive mine at the other end with at least one or two of the clasps open! I use all four padlock holes.
Jason Falla
08-04-11, 18:21
You can go with big cases to reduce handling people from walking off with them, but a big pelican case screamings- expensive or fun stuff. When I travel with handguns, I put the 2-gun pelican case inside another suitcase. Camouflage like all the the other black roll on bags.
Yep, fair enough! There are options for traveling with pistols only, High-Vis and Low-Vis. Both are appropriate so long as they arrive at the other end!
Yep, sorry about that! It's hard to write in an American accent you know :)
TSA approved (A padlock that meets or exceeds their standards). Try to ensure that your pelican case will not open even with the locks in place. I always receive mine at the other end with at least one or two of the clasps open! I use all four padlock holes.
Your forgiven:D I agree fully i often will Zip Tie after the locks go on to help reassure....
.
I have precisely cut SS tubing to slip over a lock's shackle to make the lock fit tight.
The piece of tubing won't make the bend in the shackle, so you cut it to fill in the slack length of the shackle.
Cutting the tubing close will prevent whatever you're locking from being opened even a little bit.
If you cut it a little short, you can use a washer (or 3) to shim the gap tight.
Just an idea...
.
militarymoron
08-04-11, 20:19
per request, i've started a sticky in the AR general discussion section for posting travel tips and information, starting with jason's list. please feel free to add to it, but keep it to verified advice please, and limit it to airline travel.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1066598#post1066598
Thanks, guys. I've traveled with toys since 2000 and for awhile you could purchase insurance at the counter for $1 per every $100 you claimed the pkg to cost/valued/worth. That ceased sometime after 9/11; maybe 2004 timeframe. I cannot recall exactly when.
With all of the TSA shenanigans I feel the need to insure them. One can purchase insurance for about $40 for "excess valuation" for $3k claimed value but the ticket agents will probably not know about it. Shipping to a home address is nice and will probably be the way I will choose when I fly home.
Comments
Shor hasp, quality locks on Pelican, or equivalent, cases is mandatory. You can zip tie the luggage bag that you place the Pelican case in.
If you wish to go large and conspicuous then the larger the container the less likely - or so one would think - that it could "grow legs". Use ALL OF THE LOCKING MECHANISMS on the case.
Look like a gov't employee, i.e., clean cut, clean shaven, etc. I've found that I am treated with just a bit more respect by TSA, ticket agents and LEO in and around the airport. Of course, being polite assists, too.
Thanks again.
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