View Full Version : Help me pick a Vertical Grip
JR TACTICAL
08-03-11, 04:20
I have expierence with Tango Down, Daniel Defense and the Magpul AFG. I was thinking about trying something new with my new rifle when it gets here and was thinking about either the Troy or the KAC but have never used/felt one before so I'm just unsure.
I have heard that the Troy is alittle on the heavier side which may be the deciding factor because the new rifle is going to have a DD RIS II full length rail and I know that is on the heavier side of rails so I want to keep as much weight off the front of the rifle as possible but still be able to have a grip/light combo.
I have not heard anything on the KAC grip, my search yielded nothing but pics of them and I can see that alot of people use them so that has to be a good thing but I want to hear what you think of it.
Is a vert grip a vert grip or is there any special considerations that I'm missing.
What do you guys think/reccomend
Thanks
JR
A VFG is one of those parts where buying cheaper actually makes sense. You don't really need a QD one and you want it to break before it warps your rail system, so...
Go with a Magpul VFG, they are cheap and you can cut them down easily.
You may see a lot of KAC grips because they are a military issue item and have been around for a long time, but I don't know anyone who uses one by choice. The locking mechanism is weak and the design has been surpassed.
I'll also recommend the Magpul MOE grip - cheap, lightweight and locks up tight.
I like the look of the TD VG (short) and may go that direction next time. I have the Magpul VG and I like it, good price. I also have the cheapie no name $20 VG which serves a function. It does have storage unlike the Magpul which requires a stopper or something to plug the hole. The Grip pod looks interesting but I have heard its heavy and a little pricey. Good luck.
Why don't you go to the closest stores and see which ones feel the best? This is completely subjective.
What you are asking is IMO unrealistic. I can guarantee you are going to get hundreds of different answers and then where will you be?
rsong76's advice is probably the best. Go to somewhere like SCG or one of the other big stores, bring your AR and then see about trying some. I can tell you having been through a fair share of them myself you will really have to use it to know if it works for you or not.
Try them all out for yourself, and pick your favorite. I did that and chose the Magpul RVG because it meshes well with how I hold my 14.5" carbine. My 20" rifle doesn't have a VFG at all, even though I do have an extra RVG.
Guns-up.50
08-03-11, 10:31
I agree to try to find one that works well but a 50$ to 60$ a pop its unrealistic. I was lucky enough to have several friends with diff options. I cant tell you which one is the best or you should buy. I can tell you the one i chose and why. I went with the tango down stubby non qd. Its very tight on the rifle no movement at all. I opted for the non qd because i had/have no plans of removing it+ i feel it has a stronger grip. The stubby verson is obviously shorter i like this because i dont grab just the vfg i use it as a reference point+ it has a lower profile. I have had mine for 2-3 years and im very happy over all with it. As far as others go i cant go into detail other than the 10$ usgi issue pos. Hope this helps goodluck on you quest.
+2342 on trying everything out first. A lot of the people who buy the AFG (not really a VG) don't realize what it's intended for. I bet half of them end up on carbine length systems with a fully collapsed stock. Go for it if you like Magpul's position for your support arm. I use their RVGs for a point of reference.
Tango Down grips are great if you like to have options for storage, pressure pads indents and QD.
Go down to the new SCG peoria, its not far from your house, and try them out. I have the Magpul VFG and I like it a lot. You can try it out if you want.
Failure2Stop
08-03-11, 11:50
I voted, but really you are asking for too much information with insufficient constraints.
How do you shoot with your support arm and existing VFG?
How do you use the grip with your support hand?
Do you use your VFG for shooting from support?
What kind of shooting or use is the VFG intended to improve?
Do you shoot with gloves?
What kind of lights/lasers/sights/slings (if applicable) do you use, and how do you interface with them while shooting in regard to the VFG?
Do you have a bipod or intend to add one?
What is the role of the weapon?
You don't have to give a life history, but some detail to work with ensures the highest quality of advice.
What works perfectly for me might be terrible for you. This is not a measure of preference, but rather of priority.
You may see a lot of KAC grips because they are a military issue item and have been around for a long time, but I don't know anyone who uses one by choice. The locking mechanism is weak and the design has been surpassed.
I'll also recommend the Magpul MOE grip - cheap, lightweight and locks up tight.
I actually like the KAC grip. Its lightweight and the slim profile is comfortable. I used mine a a handstop & the length was my only complaint. Currently test driving a MOE vfg.
I have not heard anything on the KAC grip, my search yielded nothing but pics of them and I can see that alot of people use them so that has to be a good thing but I want to hear what you think of it.
I've been using them for years, and see no reason to change.
When I PM my gun - clean, lube, and make sure everything is tight, I also check it.
I'm not too technical about it.
If it doesn't fall off or break, and I can hang on to it (works as designed), it's good.
ffhounddog
08-03-11, 13:59
I use Tango Downs and a KAC because that is what I have used overseas.
Really depends on what you are doing. I have used my TD standards for years and also have two TD QD. Only reason for the QD is for my get that I use on deployment. Hard to put the rifle in the rack when it is on.
Bobro is a good slim one too.
Chop a KAC. Here's mine.
http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/AdamKrick/Guns/utf-8BSU1HMDAwNjgtMjAxMTAxMjUtMTE1OC5qcGc-1-1.jpg
I prefer the Tango Down QD stubby.
Not a lot of love for the Larue FUG it seems. Anything wrong with it ? It had rave reviews on TOS fwiw ...
jonconsiglio
08-03-11, 14:32
I like the LaRue for the very limited experience I have with it. I have the Tango Down stubby which is a good one as well. I have the standard mount instead of the QD now and have had the QD before. I traded the KAC for this one so it wasn't a choice.
I've found what's most comfortable when shooting isn't always the most comfortable when walking for a while. The Tango Down does a decent job there where the AFG doesn't not, at least for me. I run my vert grip about five spaces back from the front of my URX II's and my Daniel Defense mk-18 RIS II. I used to use them primarily as a hand stop but now I wrap my fingers around it lower and my thumb along the side rail or slightly over the top.
I've also found the TD to be good for different grips, like if I use it as more of a hand stop for faster close range action or I can back it off a bit and stabilize it more for longer shots, etc (well, my ability of shooting longer range is debatable after the other weekend!).
I have had these VFGs: Tango Down (both lengths), KAC, Magpul, and Troy. The Troy works the best for me. I use them without the length insert as a large hand stop. I no longer have a Tango Down stubby to compare to my Troys but I think that without the insert the Troy is shorter. The battery storage is a nice feature and they are rock solid. Also the Troy is a fair amount cheaper than the Tango Down ones and a bit slimmer.
Failure2Stop is on the money. A "vertical grip" is different for different applications. My favorite for my "longer range" AR is a Grip Pod (often maligned but works well for me).
Dropping prone with it at 100-200 yards and getting quick hits is easy. At CQB distances, I use it as a reference with the support hand in front of the grip and under the rail, thumb up.
My SBR sports a Larue FUG, used the same way. It is heavy with the QD and will probably be replaced with a non-QD stubby.
What is your mission?
spring1271
08-03-11, 18:31
Try the Bobro. It locks up tight and stays put! http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/37b05aaf34c4be26bc927cc38e37904c.jpg
I voted for DD, what can you say, it came with the rifle and I haven't been displeased so there is not point in replacing. Not sure having a vote is anything more than rolling dice but it is good to see if anyone has anything condemning about the options.
Above is right - go to a shop and try them out. I had been using a MP AFG, but did not quite like the rearward pressure I got. So... saw a Troy on sale and scooped it up. It is fairly light in the stubby config, and it is the perfect length. The tapered shape is very good, and watertight storage is nice. It also clamps down very tightly on the rail, and leaves no mark so far.
OP I really like the magpul vfg. It is not expensive, and does not get in the way.
This is really like asking what kind of underwear does one prefer... everyone will have a different answer, and probably wear them in a different way.
My fit is the MVG. Even though I have a big mit, I use them as a half ass hand stop/half ass VG most of the time. I don't give a damn what what kool-aid people are drinking these days. Just so happens that these fit me. You will have to figure out what "fits" you.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/Zeusmotorworks/100_3268-1.jpg
I usually cut the "unused" part off the bottom of the VG with a bandsaw... just had not gotten to this one yet.
I prefer hand stops. But if you like the grips, I'd go with Bobro.
JR TACTICAL
08-04-11, 00:33
QUOTE=Failure2Stop;1065016]I voted, but really you are asking for too much information with insufficient constraints.
How do you shoot with your support arm and existing VFG?
with my thumb along the rail as demonstrated in the Magpul videos
How do you use the grip with your support hand?
is this not the same question as above
Do you use your VFG for shooting from support?
Yes
What kind of shooting or use is the VFG intended to improve?
Close in HD shooting and medium distance shooting
Do you shoot with gloves?
Sometimes
What kind of lights/lasers/sights/slings (if applicable) do you use, and how do you interface with them while shooting in regard to the VFG?
Streamlight Polytac with VTAC Viking mount, Magpul MS2 sling
have a QD sling attachment on end plate and flashlight is positioned downward so I can use my thumb to engage the tail cap
Do you have a bipod or intend to add one?
no and no
What is the role of the weapon?
All purpose rifle that wll be going with me to classes, Home Defense, and general plinker to have fun with
You don't have to give a life history, but some detail to work with ensures the highest quality of advice.
What works perfectly for me might be terrible for you. This is not a measure of preference, but rather of priority.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for all the replies guys, and by the poll TD seems to be the favorite. I think I may just stick with that seeing as I have experience with that grip already and I know it works. I may go down and check out the Magpul VFG just to see if I like it because I would save some $$ there over the TD.
I sold all my rails and have been using the MOE VFG. It is light and cheap and fits my and well at the end of my handguard. I like the TD stubby non QD on a rail. The QD lever was not necessary for me, it added cost and was in my way.
I have recently swapped out my GG&G VFG for a GripPod Systems GPS LE, and I love it. It fits my support hand well, and has the added bonus of becoming a bipod when need be. Another + is that it's not all that heavy.
I've been using the TD VG stubby for the past couple years. Its comfortable for me :)
Failure2Stop
08-09-11, 07:34
How do you shoot with your support arm and existing VFG?
with my thumb along the rail as demonstrated in the Magpul videos
How do you use the grip with your support hand?
is this not the same question as above
No.
I am asking what your hand is gripping/pressing on/how much of your hand is in contact with the VFG at any given time. It helps to know what you want to "feel" in your support hand. You might grip to HG/VFG in a manner similar to the MagPul demos, but almost always, what someone thinks they are doing and what they are actually doing are distinctly different, and having you explain what you feel is a lot closer to me seeing you do it than telling me what you think it looks like.
I can gather from the rest of your ansers what you are doing, but it was not a duplicate question.
Do you use your VFG for shooting from support?
Yes
What kind of shooting or use is the VFG intended to improve?
Close in HD shooting and medium distance shooting
Do you shoot with gloves?
Sometimes
What kind of lights/lasers/sights/slings (if applicable) do you use, and how do you interface with them while shooting in regard to the VFG?
Streamlight Polytac with VTAC Viking mount, Magpul MS2 sling have a QD sling attachment on end plate and flashlight is positioned downward so I can use my thumb to engage the tail cap
Ok, so you grip with an overhand "C" grip, but have your light positioned "downward", so you can use your thumb to engage the tail cap? From that sentence it sounds to me like you have to shift your grip to a choke hold on the VFG to hit the light with your thumb. I may have simply misunderstood, so please correct me if I did.
Anyway, if you do move to a choke hold for use of your light, depending on the size of your hands, you might want to look at the mid-sized VFGs, such as the KAC and MagPul. The Stubby TD is nice, though a bit pricey, but the full-sized one is way too big in my opinion.
One nice thing about larger VFGs is that they work the best when shooting from vertical support. Be warned that a lower position with your light (4:30 to 7:30) will impede your supported shooting.
What do you mean by "medium distance shooting"?
The VFG is pretty much only a benefit to the standing position unless you get a GripPod for prone work. VFGs are great for assisting a supported position, but you really haven't made much mention of that application except when prompted, which leads me to believe that you have little to no experience in that application. I'm not denouncung you, simply pointing out that you probably shouldn't focus on that, unless you now think that it is a capability gap that you want to close. Medium (or intermediate) range is generally classified as 100 to 300 meters (though many also consider 200 to 500 to be intermediate), but there really isn't a technical distinction, so the waters get muddy unless you directly define it.
Anyway, I hope this helps in some regard.
How about none of the above. Your question excludes grips like Crimson Trace's laser/light combo which is what I use. Obviously it is a more costly grip but if you limit the options it limits the discussion.
superstratjunky
08-09-11, 17:57
I voted, but really you are asking for too much information with insufficient constraints.
How do you shoot with your support arm and existing VFG?
How do you use the grip with your support hand?
Do you use your VFG for shooting from support?
What kind of shooting or use is the VFG intended to improve?
Do you shoot with gloves?
What kind of lights/lasers/sights/slings (if applicable) do you use, and how do you interface with them while shooting in regard to the VFG?
Do you have a bipod or intend to add one?
What is the role of the weapon?
You don't have to give a life history, but some detail to work with ensures the highest quality of advice.
What works perfectly for me might be terrible for you. This is not a measure of preference, but rather of priority.
Go down to the new SCG peoria, its not far from your house, and try them out. I have the Magpul VFG and I like it a lot. You can try it out if you want.Both of these comments are great & you should heed them. I wish I lived in an area with a good sized store that sold a huge amount of AR gear. It would have saved me a lot of time. I can't say money, because I got lucky with friends nearby & went to a class a friend was holding in Troutman NC. Outside of gas & going 800 miles, I learned a lot. I settled on the AFG. Just go to the store & try'm all out.
TonyTacoma
08-09-11, 19:15
I voted tango down because I own it and use, only downside is it's super tight fit to my rail. I had to move it into position with a mallet, other than that it does what a vfg should do.
LoneWolfRonin
03-14-12, 11:33
Love the versatility of my grip pod. I figure that if im gonna have a vfg, it might as well serve a dual purpose storage or stabilizer.
The LaRue FUG for me - converts to 3 different sizes & I don't care about the weight, it's the best one I've seen yet.
I run a Troy Modular Grip.
If you don't have the ability to try different ones out like has been stated, then I'd say go for the Troy.
You can run it full-length, or stubby, which is nice and gives you the ability to try different setups.
The thing is built like a tank, fits solid, doesn't have any screws hanging out to snag on, and can also store things inside and keep them dry at the same time.
The grips texture gives you plenty of grip without being overly aggressive.
IMO you get the best bang for your buck with the Troy. I've seen them go on the EE for about $60 or so or new for $80 shipped.
I own the DD, TD-QD, and Grip pod (mil. version).
This probably won't help your decision much, but here's my opinion anyway....:D
I don't like the Grip-pod as a vert grip- to darn long, and if you try to run it more hybrid like a hand stop, the area where it attaches to the rail is to blocky for comfort and the stupid screw sticks way out the side so you're constantly trying to maneuver your fingers around it.
Annoying!
The bipod portion is a bit wiggly when deployed, but if you got it for stupid cheap, and/or you currently don't have anything else, it's passable. I've used mine for sighting in a couple rifles, and it has helped a lot.
The DanielDefense grip isn't really bad- stupid simple and seems pretty durable. However, I don't like that it slides on to the rail (I'm more a fan of rock on/off stuff), especially if you're using XTM panels....NOT a fun feature if you're planning on taking it on and off. I also don't know if I really like the way you have to unscrew the endcap to move it along the rail for adjustment- given that it has a storage area, I'm thinking this might eventually lead to lost parts.
That being said, if you got a rifle that came with one, I don't really see any need to change it out.
Currently I'm using a Tangodown QD grip in fullsize. The ONLY reason I got this was it was on sale, and I just couldn't resist, regardless of my previous comment on the DD grip....:happy:
The QD lever is probably not really needed, but it has come in handy a couple times. It can get in the way, but I switched it around, and the problem was solved. If it wasn't on sale, I probably would have just got the normal version- I honestly can't fathom why they want $90 bucks for the thing...
It also fits my hand nicely whichever hand position I want to use. I chose the fullsize as I wanted flexibility in what I could stick in it- a storage area was kind of a pre-requisite for me, as I like things that can pull double duty. I'm assuming it's waterproff as well- at least, it's got a rubber gasket/washer that seems to seal it up tight.
If you're not wanting a storage core, than imho, why bother with anything other than a Magpul RVG or AFG?
I do not own one, but I have handled a few rifles with both mounted, and they're very simple, light, and comfortable. Plus, as some folks have mentioned, you can cut the RVG down to where you want it.
St.Michael
03-14-12, 19:30
Buy one of each. Then you won't have to pick just 1. This is kinda like asking what shoes you should buy I think. As we have no idea how you shoot or what feels good for you. Plus if you have tried what you said already then that's pretty much all there. is.
Mind a noob (me) suggesting? Maybe try one not on your list? I have a Wilson stubby vertical grip. Less than $40.00, machined aluminum, clean look. The way it secures to the rail may be it's weak link but can't know until you rock one for a while.
Personally, I use it more like a stop - index and middle fingers with web supporting the rifle and ring and pinky braced against vert, thumb is wrapped over handguard. The grip isn't knurled but rather smooth and that works for me.
Good price and not shabby. Like I said, I'm just a noob making a suggestion.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3662/5787318159_ef762ee5a8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42137411@N00/5787318159/)
Although on a Sig 522, the control of the front end with this grip is more secure than any other I've seen. You can twirrel the hole gun over your head from this grip & it will never let go. I'm sorry, I just cant stand grabbing plastic at the front of my gun.
I like the weight and feel of the Magpul RVG.
This is kind of a lame thing to do to a retailer, but if you can find a place that doesn't charge a restocking fee, just buy 3 or 4 and pick one. Return the others. Lots of these things come in a sturdy zip-lock anyways; no worries about wrecking the packaging.
You'd only be out a few $ in shipping.
Gear Sector
http://www.gearsector.com/img/?filename=a6ef025859979af6398bd44cb991d800.jpg&width=320
funnymantrip
03-15-12, 08:35
First post... but a really really really longtime lurker. Hell I feel as if I know some of you I have read so much.
I just made this decision, so maybe this helps.
I have a BCM middy with DD rail and have always ran a LaRue handstop on it about 3/4 of the way out. Just this Sunday I got the 'bug' to try out a VFG and ordered a TD stubby non QD. Came yesterday, installed/painted and shot last night.
Everyone was right that thing is super tight to get on the rail. Just a few light taps with a mallet got it into place. The thing is rock solid and very well built. I use the thumbreak with it, and instantly could see the improvement with the hold, and moving it around was so much more fluid. I almost felt bad that I had not put one of these on before now.
TankerrobM1A1
03-15-12, 11:50
+1 on chopped KAC
Using stubby MAGPUL. With a change to thumb on top for longer guns it really does make a difference. I was very skeptical. It it worked better for me. SBR's, I have to say that I like to use the handguard in a normal fashion or a stubby or medium sized vfg.
I have found out I do not like the AFG, but that just shows how personal this is and will vary from person to person.
I recently purchased a Noveske 10.5" and was looking for another stubby verticle grip. I looked at the Tango Down one and I also though about the Troy that I have on another rig. I was also looking at the Gear Sector site and found this
http://www.gearsector.com/browse/category/mounts/weapon-controls/vertical-grips/
This is a great little VFG. Very light weight and perfect for the way I grip my weapon.
I recently got all 04' and stuck a full-size QD TD VFG on my SBR.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/Misc/DSC_4786.jpg
Looks funny yes but I don't care ;)
pruitt0212
03-15-12, 21:13
I personally hate the Tangodown's. I think the Troy's are the best out there alongside with the LaRue's. I love them both because they give me the ability to switch between a full-size and compact easily, even though I pretty much always run them compact.
I like the TD Stubbie. I use a broken thumb grip where the thumb is along the side up high, but not over the top (not a C-Grip). I like the larger base on the TD because it creates kind of a 45 degree contact area between the VFG and the rail which better gives my middle and ring finger a place to have consistent contact but not get uncomfortably bunched in a corner the way the strait to the rail VFGs do (for me)... like the Magpul's 90 degree right angle just bunches my fingers leaving them searching to go higher or lower:confused:.
I like the VFG at 9" down the rail and with an 11-12 rail I have enough room for mounting a light comfortably at 10 O'Clock. (I am playing with different light positions:rolleyes:)
The way I use the VFG is like a larger version of a handstop but that allows a broomhandle hold when necessary (around odd corners). I have some hand damage and the VFG allows me to pull the gun in tight to shoulder with less needed "hand/finger grip" pressure applied around rail... as when I try and muscle the gun with grip strength my sights get a tremor and when I use the palm and arm muscles (larger muscles) pressing against the vertical grip to pull the gun in but with a lighter grip on the rail I can make minute adjustments faster with better feel in my hand (starting/stopping/fine POA adjustments) and no tremor, but good recoil control using the palm blade and arm muscle to pull the rifle in tight and loose hand/fingers for "feel".
When I was learning to fly my landings were quite frightening at first because I had a deathgrip on the yoke and I could not "feel" the aircraft and my instructor got me to eventually hold it loose/delicately and I could suddenly feel so much more of what the plane was doing... most people "DRIVE" their rifle... I "FLY" my rifle:p
Another vote for Magpul.
The price is right.
killjoythedestroyer
03-28-12, 22:45
Gear Sector
http://www.gearsector.com/img/?filename=a6ef025859979af6398bd44cb991d800.jpg&width=320
+1 for Gear Sector
I have been through alot of forward grips lately and settled on this one. For my style of grip it is the best of all grips. My .02
i've never tried a vertical grip, but my rifle had an AFG2 on it when i bought it, and i swapped it out for an AFG1. i like both. they're comfortable and natural feeling in the hand, so i haven't had a reason to go to anything different.
I have a KAC VG and it works. It's nothing fancy but does the job. Might pick up another brand in the future.
Did you two realize that this thread is almost 1 year old? Just sayin'.
NamelessHobo
06-25-12, 14:15
I voted KAC. They're cheap and they work well. Also are easy to modify, should you prefer it be shorter.
I keep going back to the KAC using the thumb break method. I'd love to see someone make a shorty.
Terlingueno
06-25-12, 17:34
I used the KAC that came with my rails for awhile, now I have a cheepy Archangel stubby that was $29 and change from Brownells.
KAC_member
06-25-12, 17:42
In my subjective experience I like short, stubby grips. I use the pink and ring finger on the VFG and th other wrap to the handguard, and I prefer a handstop knuckling up to my index finger. That's what I like, but as many have said its subjective. I like it because it gives me easy access to my light (10 o clock position) and doesnt inhibit turning and moving the rifle to targets. I will SA I have never understood the needto drop $50 on a VFG. The magpul and other $20 varieties work just fine and if you cut it to what you want, you don't feel as bad chopping a cheaper part.
JasonZBell
06-25-12, 19:58
As an owner of the Magpul and a GG&G, I'd have to say I like the feel and functionality of the GG&G. It's nice to have that storage space for extra batteries, carrier, etc.
Can't go wrong with any in the poll though. You really need to hold one and see how it fit your hand and shooting style.
KrampusArms
06-25-12, 20:00
I voted KAC. I've tried 3 different VFG, & I like the KAC the best so far. Like others have stated, its light, comfortable, & the size is just right. Only down side is lack of storage & price. (look on EE for one like I did)
fallenromeo
06-26-12, 10:10
It is not on the list of options, but I personally like the Gear Sector VFG.
I use the Troy Modular grip. I love the build quality (aluminum), storage, and the fact that you can have it as a full size or a stubby. Troy Modular Grip and TangoDown are the two best, IMO. I like the KAC for a no frills, lightweight grip. It mounts nice and tight but lacks storage.
i chose tango down. It is my favorite right now. I like the ergonomics of it best. 2nd favorite is the larue FUG....however you don't have that one listed.
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