Belmont31R
08-04-11, 18:20
I admit and don't understand how all this works, Im not a CPA, ect.
With that said there is precedent for these types actions, and it has been explored by Congress. This is taking money out of retirement funds, and using them now with an IOU left in place instead of cash. For now this has been limited to Federal accounts and investments. The government will "borrow" money out of these trusts and investments, and then they are supposed to pay it back.
A couple examples are in the thread title such as the G Fund which is part of the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP), Social Security trust fund, and others.
According to the CBO there is over 200 government trust funds but only about 12 of them see any serious money.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/AppendixD.shtml
Now if you look at the bottom of the graph/chart you can see the projected deficit of these funds.
The gov has no problem raping these funds, and leaving IOU's in place of the cash that was there.
Now if you want to see who "owns" our 14.5 trillion in debt: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/07/who-owns-treasury-debt/
You can see much of it is DOMESTIC. Its not the chinese, russians, and space aliens. Its US. There are IOU's all over the place.
Also wanted to point out everyone wants to taught CBO this and CBO that. During all these deals, budgets, plans, legislation, and all that jazz you can easily see how little these people really do know. I know I linked a CBO report already, and people tend to get on others because they didn't have a "good" link...
Anyways look at their 2011 budget oulook...
CBO’s 2011 Long-Term Budget Outlook
The alternative fiscal scenario incorporates several changes to current law that are widely expected to occur or that would modify some provisions that might be difficult to sustain for a long period. Under that scenario, which many budget analysts believe is a more realistic picture of the nation’s underlying fiscal policies, revenues would remain close to their historical average of 18 percent of GDP, and federal debt would exceed 100 percent of GDP by 2021 and would balloon to nearly 190 percent by 2035.
http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=2317
But oopsie?
US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government’s debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/08/03/gop-win-debt-reaches-100-of-gdp/
Now how is the government going to pay for this? Does anyone think within the next 10-15 years people around the world are going to fund another 15 trillion in debt?
But wait....
Theres already a plan to fund this debt. If you think the debt is going to slow down you are in for a big surprise. Not only has the government held hearings on confiscation of 401k accounts but they have also looked into mandatory bonds call R bonds.
Officials in the Obama administration are moving quickly to develop the investment infrastructure behind the president’s proposal for mandatory automatic enrollment in individual retirement accounts, which could be supported by the creation of Treasury-issued retirement bonds.
http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20090607/REG/906059955
Obama is not stupid nor are all the people running this show. If foreign investors and gov trust funds run out of money all it will take is one law to say half of retirement investments have to be in government bonds. These R bonds.
You can call me a kook or tin foil hat wearer all you want. They already have this entire thing laid out. Just needs to become law.
BUENOS AIRES (AFP) — Argentine President Cristina Kirchner moved Tuesday to nationalize 30 billion dollars in private pension funds, saying it was necessary to protect retirees in the global financial crisis.
"We are taking this decision in the international context in which the G-8 countries and others are seeking ways to protect banks," Kirchner said as she presented the nationalization plan, which still must be approved by the Argentine congress.
"We are protecting our retirees and workers," she said.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g6evsfTuYtN0gWlilNg2Y6DZD50A
Already happened elsewhere. Instead of real funds in your 401K you will have an IOU from the government. They will take the money and give you a piece of paper.
Now if you're saying "this can't happen here" it already did. FDR made possession, sale, and transfer of gold illegal. It was confiscated, and the government set the price they would pay people.
And you also need to look at the biggest loop hole in our government is the number of supreme court justices is not limited. Read about the war on the courts, and the spring and summer of 1937. There was a plethora of cases that were passed as the SCOTUS was under threat of being made completely irrelevant. The NFA was one of those cases in the year of 1937...something we should all be familiar with as well as declaring social security constitutional.
If you think this spending is going to be "checked" you're not thinking here. There are already plans in the works to keep funding the government even if foreign governments and investors stop buying. They have to some extent, and they are playing shell games between the Fed and Treasury. When that stops working (quantitative easing) it just takes a couple votes and a signature to make sure you're retirement investments become "public", and require a certain percent of your savings to be in bonds. You will probably never see that money again.
With that said there is precedent for these types actions, and it has been explored by Congress. This is taking money out of retirement funds, and using them now with an IOU left in place instead of cash. For now this has been limited to Federal accounts and investments. The government will "borrow" money out of these trusts and investments, and then they are supposed to pay it back.
A couple examples are in the thread title such as the G Fund which is part of the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP), Social Security trust fund, and others.
According to the CBO there is over 200 government trust funds but only about 12 of them see any serious money.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/AppendixD.shtml
Now if you look at the bottom of the graph/chart you can see the projected deficit of these funds.
The gov has no problem raping these funds, and leaving IOU's in place of the cash that was there.
Now if you want to see who "owns" our 14.5 trillion in debt: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/07/who-owns-treasury-debt/
You can see much of it is DOMESTIC. Its not the chinese, russians, and space aliens. Its US. There are IOU's all over the place.
Also wanted to point out everyone wants to taught CBO this and CBO that. During all these deals, budgets, plans, legislation, and all that jazz you can easily see how little these people really do know. I know I linked a CBO report already, and people tend to get on others because they didn't have a "good" link...
Anyways look at their 2011 budget oulook...
CBO’s 2011 Long-Term Budget Outlook
The alternative fiscal scenario incorporates several changes to current law that are widely expected to occur or that would modify some provisions that might be difficult to sustain for a long period. Under that scenario, which many budget analysts believe is a more realistic picture of the nation’s underlying fiscal policies, revenues would remain close to their historical average of 18 percent of GDP, and federal debt would exceed 100 percent of GDP by 2021 and would balloon to nearly 190 percent by 2035.
http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=2317
But oopsie?
US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government’s debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/08/03/gop-win-debt-reaches-100-of-gdp/
Now how is the government going to pay for this? Does anyone think within the next 10-15 years people around the world are going to fund another 15 trillion in debt?
But wait....
Theres already a plan to fund this debt. If you think the debt is going to slow down you are in for a big surprise. Not only has the government held hearings on confiscation of 401k accounts but they have also looked into mandatory bonds call R bonds.
Officials in the Obama administration are moving quickly to develop the investment infrastructure behind the president’s proposal for mandatory automatic enrollment in individual retirement accounts, which could be supported by the creation of Treasury-issued retirement bonds.
http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20090607/REG/906059955
Obama is not stupid nor are all the people running this show. If foreign investors and gov trust funds run out of money all it will take is one law to say half of retirement investments have to be in government bonds. These R bonds.
You can call me a kook or tin foil hat wearer all you want. They already have this entire thing laid out. Just needs to become law.
BUENOS AIRES (AFP) — Argentine President Cristina Kirchner moved Tuesday to nationalize 30 billion dollars in private pension funds, saying it was necessary to protect retirees in the global financial crisis.
"We are taking this decision in the international context in which the G-8 countries and others are seeking ways to protect banks," Kirchner said as she presented the nationalization plan, which still must be approved by the Argentine congress.
"We are protecting our retirees and workers," she said.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g6evsfTuYtN0gWlilNg2Y6DZD50A
Already happened elsewhere. Instead of real funds in your 401K you will have an IOU from the government. They will take the money and give you a piece of paper.
Now if you're saying "this can't happen here" it already did. FDR made possession, sale, and transfer of gold illegal. It was confiscated, and the government set the price they would pay people.
And you also need to look at the biggest loop hole in our government is the number of supreme court justices is not limited. Read about the war on the courts, and the spring and summer of 1937. There was a plethora of cases that were passed as the SCOTUS was under threat of being made completely irrelevant. The NFA was one of those cases in the year of 1937...something we should all be familiar with as well as declaring social security constitutional.
If you think this spending is going to be "checked" you're not thinking here. There are already plans in the works to keep funding the government even if foreign governments and investors stop buying. They have to some extent, and they are playing shell games between the Fed and Treasury. When that stops working (quantitative easing) it just takes a couple votes and a signature to make sure you're retirement investments become "public", and require a certain percent of your savings to be in bonds. You will probably never see that money again.