View Full Version : Airline Tips for the Tactical Traveler
Jason Falla
08-03-11, 18:15
These are my words of advice for the tactical traveller!
1. Check the regulations for "traveling with guns" with your preferred air carrier. (The more you know the better. You will end up knowing the laws better than the check in agent. That's a double edged sword!)
2. Suck up the excess baggage charges. (travel with your guns on the same flight as you. Use a Pelican style, hard sided case with approved TSA padlocks. Even if you are only traveling with a pistol, I would check it in a large Pelican case. This will deter the sticky fingered baggage handler from swiping your goods!)
3. Don't pack more guns in one case than the regulations allow. (I mention this because I ran into this one traveling to a military training course out of state. I needed to get 3 carbines and 2 pistols to the activity. The regulations state that the limit is 3 weapons per case. I had to do some quick thinking and broke the weapons down so they just looked like parts and not complete guns! This worked on this occasion but I wouldn't rely on it.)
4. Give yourself an extra 30 mins prior to departure. (This will account for the check agent that has never dealt with the tactical traveler!)
5. Do a 100% check for live rounds. (Check and check again for the presence of live rounds "not in original packaging" in your gun case or kit bag. I was taken off a flight and ordered to report to the TSA baggage scanning area only to find the TSA agent holding a single 9mm round in his hand and a Dirty Harry look on his face! I grabbed the round from him, ran outside and tossed it into a garbage can. Then ran back to my flight! I couldn't miss this one as I was upgraded to business class!)
6. Check the limitations on traveling with live rounds. (I think it is 11lbs total. This equates to about 400 rounds. Not enough for a high round count class, so you might need to ship the bullets or procure them at the other end. You can have the rounds in your gun case so long as they are in original packaging. I traveled back from Miami with 400 rounds of 9mm in boxes in my carbine case.)
7. Look like a military service member! (This is not easy for everyone to pull off, but when done correctly you can steamline some of the processing and the agents and TSA don't look at you like a terrorist when they open up your gun case and see the man slayer complete with flashlights and lasers!)
8. Don't place any gung-ho ass kickin stickers on your gun case. (This will only draw more attention from sticky fingers tossing your luggage around like an olympic discus thrower!)
9. Weigh your gun case prior to arriving at the check in if possible. (Get a cheapish luggage weighing device to check the total packed weight of your heaters before you get to the airport. This will stop the three card monty act of transferring sights and magazines from your gun case to your soft bag in front of 40 frustrated travelers.)
10. Let the check in agent know that you are checking guns. (You will need to fill in a red card, stating that the weapons are unloaded. The agent will also log the guns into the system and your luggage tag will have a special notation (coded) that distinguishes that particular bag as containing guns.
11. Don't use your gun case to store any explosive material! (This seems like it's common sense but, I have a case that contained large amounts of explosive material and I must remember not to travel with it, unless I want to spend several hours explaining myself to TSA finest!)
12. Make sure that your weapons are unloaded with magazines removed. (The check in agent will always ask if your guns are unloaded. Normally with a terrified facial expression! TSA will also open your case, swipe with explosive material and ask for your red card if not already in case and your padlocks. Play along with there rules and regulations, even though your clearly know more about shooting then they do! Don't miss your flight due to an argument with the frosty TSA agent over THEIR rules!)
13. Keep your ID handy at the other end! (If you are traveling to and from an airport that has plenty of military personnel traveling through it. Norfolk International is a good example. You will have to show ID to reclaim your gun case. This will normally be done at the claim office. However, if traveling though the left wing regions like the Republic of Kalifornia, be sure to keep your eyes up looking for your gun case. It will most likely get spat out of the conveyer belt or at the oversized baggage claim area. So position yourself to keep eyes on both areas so no pilferer looking for a five fingered discount on your guns walks off with your case!)
14. Be prepared for your guns to be a no show! (If you have any tight connections or delay due to fowl weather or booking with American Airlines! Be prepared to be separated from your tools of Jihad destruction. I haven't lost any weapons traveling to this point. I have had some tight connections resulting in a delay of my guns arriving on the next flight. So when booking flights, keep connections generous and be flexible at the other end.
Final thoughts, there is always a risk traveling with your guns. But so long as you follow all of the rules and regulations put out by the Airlines and TSA you should be in good shape for you training trip. Follow my tips for the tactical traveller and it should relieve some of the heart burn associated with bringing your guns with you!
Happy travels!
HawaiianM4
08-08-11, 00:00
Thanks for a great post!
Excellent post, Jason! With this info I may do more classes in your AO. :)
Good stuff. Just to expand on a bit:
#8: It might even be worthwhile to get relatively benign stickers for your case: locations, music bands, or other things that will make people think that it's a guitar or other instrument.
#10: The orange "steal me" sticker they give you when checking firearms goes on the INSIDE of your case. You'd be amazed at how many people (employees and flyers alike) don't know this. There's been more than one occasion in which I've had to kindly inform the person checking my luggage.
#12: When clearing your firearm(s) for the checker's satisfaction, wait for their instruction and inform them that you're doing so. Many simply don't care whether or not they're loaded, and may get freaked out when you start racking guns when they weren't expecting it.
Unless rules have changed, you are NOT supposed to use one of the locks that TSA has access to. Use a private padlock, prefferably the most secure lock you can find. You will be asked to open the case for inspection prior to it being checked, and generally speaking it will then be hand carried by you to the secure loading area.
Other wise, good tips.
S/F
I was under the impression you weren't supposed to use TSA locks either.
Another tip that I got somewhere on (I believe) M4C was that if you can find a shorter case in which you can break down the rifles, you should put the case into a duffle bag before loading it so that it looks like a normal bag when being handled by the loaders or on the conveyer belt moving past people who may like snatching things. Should keep the weight down too. I am in the process of making my own case out of a sturdy, o-ring sealed, 28" Stanley tool box that I picked up at Home Depot. The only part I'm not sure of is the locks....any insight?
Thanks for the post Jason.
Unless rules have changed, you are NOT supposed to use one of the locks that TSA has access to. Use a private padlock, prefferably the most secure lock you can find. You will be asked to open the case for inspection prior to it being checked, and generally speaking it will then be hand carried by you to the secure loading area.
Other wise, good tips.
S/F
Agreed with the above.
When checking firearms, they get inspected once and then locked up for good for the rest of your flight(s). The only person who shall hold the key to the locks is the owner of the firearms. DO NOT use "TSA locks" on a firearm case. Using "TSA locks" only encourages uninformed TSA personnel to break the law and damage your property.
Once your guns get inspected at check-in, that shit gets locked up like a bank vault. Moses himself is not authorized to split open your case without first contacting the owner and having him/her present.
The locks seem to be an arguable topic in this thread. Here's from the TSA's website...
- The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
- TSA inspects all firearm cases at the ticket counter. Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If travelers are not present and the security officer must open the container, TSA or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
So you should absolutely use non TSA locks and carry the key with you. You and only you should have access to it. If TSA wants to see inside they need to find you and have you there when they open it.
infidelprodigy
08-08-11, 11:17
I have been flying with firearms for over 5 years now. I have always used a TSA lock on my gun case. I used private locks once, when I claimed my case they werent on it. They were inside cut with a note from TSA statin they cut them for "inspection". Never again. I always put TSA locks on. It saves me sometimes having to wait with my case and always makes the process smoother.
Although I have had more than one TSA numbskull ask for the key to my TSA locks *facepalm*.......
Good tips Jason, I have been doing those things for years (hey, we all don't have Aussie accents to swoon the agents!)
The best airport expierience with firearms was at Dulles. They jay assumed I was part of a secret .gov organization (guess painted M4s and Glocks are proof...) and treated me with the utmost courtesy. Even waived the overweight bag fee!!
For 100% safety & assurance of all arriving together, DRIVE!! I do realize that this isn't always an option.
I was very (pleasantly) surprised when I read that they allow loaded magazines if stored in a secured, flapped pouch with the gun(s).
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
"Travelers may not use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard)."
I would print out a copy of that bulletin and keep it in your gun case.
To expand even more on #8
LWRC has a case that looks like a guitar. There is actually a free giveaway right now if you purchased a rifle from them within the last month or so.
rodinal220
08-15-11, 17:39
Here is a tip on the lock game.Carry both TSA marked locks and NON-TSA marked(regular) locks.I carry two sets of locks,this way you make the highly trained ticket counter person and TSA ninjas happy.I also carry extra locks in case they are damaged.
In my experience,the ticket counter and TSA people usually want the TSA marked locks(YMMV).I don't argue with them,I just give them what they want and it makes traveling a little smoother.
You should carry the below guide but I have found that arguing with airport ninjas fruitless.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
TSA locks:http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/locks.shtm
Tennvol12345
08-15-11, 21:41
When it comes to flying with guns the only rule is that airports and airlines all make up their own rules. You argue since you know the rules up and down, and even have the CFR printed out and either 1) you will not make your flight 2) your bag will not make the flight 3) all of the above.
Pathfinder Ops
08-16-11, 11:46
I travel with my firearms frequently. Either to attend training or to conduct it.
My travel is in and out of NY (since this is where I live) so I suspect that if anyone is gonna be caught up in BS rules it's going to me and folks like me living here in New Yorkistan.
My experiences thus far have shown that the points Jason makes are all correct and that the TSA lock topic (for me) has been that they DO NOT require it. AS long as the container the weapon is in is locked they have not required it be a TSA or any other specific type.
Here is another experience: Frequently I am upgraded to 1st class seating once I am on the plane. I don't know if it's a coincidence to my travel with a weapon or what but it never happened prior to my starting to and not once if I was traveling without a weapon. :confused:
The other thing I noticed is my bags are ALWAYS the first off the plane at my destination. Again maybe a coincidence I'm not sure but it's a noticeable occurrence.
Just my experience and not sure how it fits.
Hot Holster
08-16-11, 13:43
When I fly with both rifles and pistols I have them in a rifle case using 2 master padlocks. (Delta allows four firearms per case).
When I fly with handguns only, they are locked in a hardsided case using Master padlocks, then put inside my regular luggage. I then latch the zippers together using a TSA approved lock. This keeps the luggage handlers out of my bag but still allows TSA to get into the luggage if need be, but they would need me to unlock the gun case.
With one exception of using AirTran once, I use Delta and Spirit. I have never experienced a problem checking in at the airline counter with firearms, nor dealing with an TSA agent who has no clue regarding traveling with firearms.
As an added note: Even though it may be more expensive, I make every effort to get a non stop flight, and I get to the baggage claim area without delay to get my things before someone else does either by intentions or mistake.
blairellis
08-22-11, 08:48
Thanks for the tips. I am about to get ready to fly back with mine!
I was told by a TSA agent at the baggage inspection station to only use NON-TSA locks on the actual gun case, whether it is inside luggage or checked by itself. But if a gun case is inside a larger checked bag the luggage can only have TSA locks. I have flown many time with both bare rifle cases and pistol cases inside luggage and they always have had the largest keyed lock I can fit on them. Sure, the thief could cut the plastic case but he will have to work at some and I assume most are looking for easy pickings they can glean with little notice.
Same TSA agent also advised field stripping the firearms to make it easily discernible by x-ray that the weapon cannot be loaded. I always do this and my SIL never has, and neither of us have had further open case inspections. I think it is an easy thing for me and makes it easier at the counter and xray machine to assure folks it is unloaded and no threat to them. :D
I like the idea of putting a rifle case in a large duffel, or finding a non-rifle case for it: basic rectangle that could be instruments or other fragile apparatus.
I also avoid the largest city hubs as much as possible since being told by other TSA agents (and reading the articles) of guns being stolen from police baggage on their return flights from a police convention in LV, going through Chicago. I try to avoid the large airports in NYC, DC, Chicago, Philly and LA, and either have stop overs in smaller cities or more SE or western cities (Denver instead of Chicago, San Jose or Ontario instead of LA, Atlanta instead of DC, etc.).
Generally I keep interaction with the ticket agent to a bare minimum. Their only responsibility is to give me a red tag and make sure I fill it out and place it inside the gun case. Period. The TSA baggage inspector is responsible for any open case inspection and then by sight only. he should ask you to open the case and do any handling of the firearm to get a different look. At the ticket counter I say, "I have an unloaded firearm in a locked case for checked baggage to declare." Most times the agent will just hand me the tag and after I fill it out make sure I place it in the locked case. Only once has one asked to see it is unloaded and then seeing it was disassembled she relaxed noticeably. If the ticket agent makes a fuss I keep as low key as possible. The instant you become defensive they will go overboard. Politeness and give them time to consult with a senior ticket person and it usually gets resolved quietly. Never had a problem with TSA, just variation in airline personnel.
Some airports have xray stations separate from the conveyor belt system. Others take the locked case or baggage back to an inspection station and have you wait to see if they need you to open it. There should be NO airline supplied tag or other marker on the case/bag that indicates it is a firearm.
I would avoid flying with hard to replace firearms. I usually am taking a generic G23 for SD (remember mag laws at destination), and only take rifles for specific reasons and then sweat every minute.
Firearm ags can end up anywhere. Usually if inside checked luggage it just comes out on the conveyor belt. Once it was purposely routed to the airline claim office without telling me. Rifle cases often come out on oversize baggage slot, but may be on the main conveyor so check both.
I just got back from a week in WY where I took my carry weapon with me.
Here is my experiences at the two airports where I checked the weapon...
1) How much of a hassle you experience checking the firearm will depend on who checks you, how much they know of the rules, and (to an extent) how they view firearms.
2) Yes it is a hassle to some degree, and will take at least an extra 15-30 mins, but if you like to be armed, then its worth it.
3) Know the rules yourself for the particular airline you are flying on.
4) When you go to to the checkout counter, declare that you have a firearm. They will then ask a few questions such as "is it unloaded?", "is it in a locked container?", ect. They will not touch the firearm nor do they have to see it. You will then fill out a orange card declaring that it is unloaded which you will put either inside or taped to the outside of your locked case. Flying from Houston, they had me put it inside...flying from Jackson Hole, they had me tape it to the outside...(apparently, you tape it to the outside when the firearms case is inside of another bag :confused: )
5) They will then have a TSA agent (who probably knows nothing about firearms) inspect your bag for (I'm assuming) explosives whether they do it there in front of you or in the back before they put it on the plane....In the Houston airport, the former burger flipper TSA agents WILL take their time and act like you are not even there. Flying from Jackson Hole, WY was a MUCH better experience.
6) TSA locks are NOT mandatory, and I would advise against them. I know I don't want someone finger-fugging my weapon when I'm not around. I would use a very well made keyed lock. I wouldn't recommend a combo lock since I have seen videos of how easy it is to unlock them. (And no I'm not talking about someone pulling "Italian Job" and using a stethoscope!)
7) Lock BOTH SIDES of the hard sided case, even a Pelican case can be pried on one end to some degree without a lock
Overall, I think the hassle is worth it to have your carry weapon with you, but just make sure you're there early. Hopefully this, along with what Jason wrote, will help prepare anyone who hasn't gone through this yet.
Thanks for the tips. I'm flying from Newark NJ to Orlando fl at the end of the month and will be bringing a rifle and pistol along with me. Hopefully without anu issues.
Six Feet Under
09-06-11, 01:15
Good stuff. Just to expand on a bit:
#8: It might even be worthwhile to get relatively benign stickers for your case: locations, music bands, or other things that will make people think that it's a guitar or other instrument.
Also think about what you're wearing when you travel. I typically wear flip-flops, khaki shorts, and a polo or regular old t-shirt. I've gotten the "did you travel here to play golf?" or "what kind of guitar do you have?" conversation every single time I fly and I check a rifle case.
Tampa International is the best airport I've flown into/out of with guns.
My case has four latches, one lock hole at each end and one lock hole near the handle. Each latch locks individually and I have a huge padlock I put around the handle, as well as zip-tying the two smaller holes at each end of the case shut. Never had an issue.
Remember, NO ONE BUT YOU is allowed (legally) to have the key to the case your firearms are in!
Deviant Ollam - Packing Firearms and the Friendly Skies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGjddG5Owsc)
I must say, flying out of the Denver was the most pleasant experience I've had travelling with long arms. They put the locked case through the x-ray machine and told me I was good to go.
Columbus OH (where I live and of course invariably always fly out out) is more of a PITA. I have to open the case and they inspect it (and I usually have to sit on my Pelican or Storm case to get it shut again, haha).
I must say, flying out of the Denver was the most pleasant experience I've had travelling with long arms.
Denver is GTG. Minneapolis is awesome.
Portland is SUPER easy. They just throw the tag in the case, take it to the TSA, then you're good to go. Last time I dropped a gun off the TSA guy actually asked me what I was running and we talked rifles for about 10 minutes.
Detroit on the other hand sucked. They made me take them all out, show them they were unloaded, and did so in front of quite a few people. Then again, Detroit is America's Mogadishu.
Then again, Detroit is America's Mogadishu.
I avoid flying through Mogadishu :D and for the same reason I avoid flying through cities like Detroit, Chicago, NYC, LA, DC. I try to have destinations and stopovers in smaller airports or western cities.
GrandPooba
09-19-11, 08:42
what exactly should you do if you get rerouted/layover in NYC/NJ/DC/etc?
xbmxracerx
09-19-11, 09:21
what exactly should you do if you get rerouted/layover in NYC/NJ/DC/etc?
Since it would just get transported to the new plane, there should not be any issues. As long as the FD tag has not been removed, you should be ok.
I have been going back and forth between Michigan and Pennsylvania for the last year and a half and have had no issues (since they know me now) Direct flights for me only though as I take no chances......
soldier-of-the-apocalypse
09-27-11, 16:36
great post
Great post...
I've noticed the more gun friendly the state, the easier the airport. Flying out of Atlanta is always a breeze. I usually get greeted with "Cool, what kinda gun is that?" or "It's been too long since I went shooting."
what exactly should you do if you get rerouted/layover in NYC/NJ/DC/etc?
If you get rerouted, then presumably the airline retains possession of your checked luggage including firearms, so no issue there.
I can't speak for DC, and I am not a lawyer, but if you get stranded / laid over in NYS/NYC or at Newark, then I would not recommend taking possession of your checked luggage with firearms and/or ammunition inside, even just for a moment. Instead, insist that the airline retain possession for the entire layover period through to your final destination. If they insist that they can't/won't, then I would (at a minimum) have them call the PAPD/NYPD over to let the PAPD/NYPD (preferably a supervisor) verify (in writing :rolleyes: ?) that they are OK with you taking possession of your checked bags with firearms for the layover.
Although FOPA (18 U.S.C. § 926A, available here http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html) is supposed to protect you from prosecution while traveling from one place to another with secured firearms that you can "lawfully possess and carry" at both ends of the journey, there have been issues at NY and NJ airports where the Port Authority PD, NYPD and/or other LEOs have arrested individuals who (i) drove up to the airport to check firearms in luggage without valid in-state licenses and (ii) took possession of their in-transit checked bags with firearms for unanticipated layovers and returned the next morning to continue their interrupted journey.
<< Note that NYC and NYS have active assault weapons bans (e.g., NYS requirement for "ban compliant" semi-autos, 10 round magazine limits for post 9/13/94 magazines, no ARs or AKs in NYC whatsoever, 5 round magazine limits for rifles and shotguns in NYC (including lever action tubes)), NJ has a state-wide blanket 15 round magazine capacity limit, NJ has a general ban on hollowpoint ammunition (applicable outside of the home only, I think). Other than that, its a virtual firearms paradise here.... >>
As someone trapped behind the lines here, I wouldn't recommend testing their zeal for making "gun arrests".
ON EDIT: I heard from a fellow student at a recent class (from UT but with a CT non-resident CCW license) that they've done fine driving up to NYC airports to check guns, despite their lack of a NY handgun license. On casual investigation, it seems that this person's success has been a direct result of them showing their paper FFL (not sure what class), along with their other licenses.... YMMV
Just went from Minneapolis to Denver and to my final destination Sacramento, Ca. Went extremely smooth. Gun was disassembled and locked in case.
Way to go. I started packing up a pistol for travel several years ago. When I found how easy it was (considering the 9/11 security measures) I wondered why I never did that before. Nice being able to settle into a hotel room with some self defense at hand.
Pandamonium
10-12-11, 19:33
Well the wife & I are doing a trip to Hawaii from New Zealand in a few weeks for a shoot so I will let you know what happens. Anyone had any problems bringing guns into Hawaii???:help:
I fly with firearms several times a month and usually everything goes very smoothly. I did have an issue about a year ago when I was flying between Salt Lake and Atlanta on Delta. Upon arriving in Atlanta, the bag that contained my M&P9 was not there and Delta had no idea where it was. I spent several hours at the airport and the most disturbing aspect was that the TSA in Atlanta did not give a rats ass that my bag was missing and that the last person it was seen with was TSA in Salt Lake. I remember thinking that they had taken incompetency to an entirely new level. Their advice was that I should file a police report with Atlanta PD.
I ended up leaving the airport with only the assurance by Delta that if it turned up they would notify me. Six hours and several phone calls later, they still did not know where my bag was. I ended up resorting to using Twitter to publicly call out Delta for completely losing my bag and firearm. Shortly after this very public notification of Delta's incompetence, I received a call from someone higher up the food chain at Delta. My firearm was located within the hour.
When my bag/firearm arrived in Atlanta it was handed over to a private courier service to deliver it to me. I received a call from them asking if they could just leave my bag with the front desk at my hotel. I told them to find a good spot to pull over and I would meet them there. Luckily, it all worked out for me and I received everything (a day later). I just want everyone to be aware that even if you do everything right and are an experienced traveler flying first class, shit happens and when things go bad don't expect them to jump through hoops for you. No one at TSA or the airline cares.
30 cal slut
11-11-11, 12:13
what exactly should you do if you get rerouted/layover in NYC/NJ/DC/etc?
Do NOT take possession of your luggage. Arrange to have it re-routed.
Port Authority Police in NY and NJ will arrest you on the spot if you are in possession of anything in contravention of state law (example: unpermitted non-residents with handguns in NY and NJ).
If you are in a situation where you have absolutely no choice but to take possession of your luggage - discreetly rent a car, get out of dodge and head to the nearest unoccupied territory.
For example - you're stuck at LaGuardia or Newark, consider driving to Philly and get a connecting flight there.
If you are in NY or NJ and try to re-check your luggage on another carrier, woe be unto you.
Do NOT take possession of your luggage. Arrange to have it re-routed.
Port Authority Police in NY and NJ will arrest you on the spot if you are in possession of anything in contravention of state law (example: unpermitted non-residents with handguns in NY and NJ).
If you are in a situation where you have absolutely no choice but to take possession of your luggage - discreetly rent a car, get out of dodge and head to the nearest unoccupied territory.
For example - you're stuck at LaGuardia or Newark, consider driving to Philly and get a connecting flight there.
If you are in NY or NJ and try to re-check your luggage on another carrier, woe be unto you.
Thanks for the tip about that. I try to avoid airports like NJ/NY even for connecting flights, but you never know where you might get rerouted. I would not have realized the risks without some local knowledge like you gave here. Thanks.
Adding on to this topic, I always travel with my BenchMade 1100 series pen. I've never had a problem making it through security with it. I always take the cap off and up it on the opposite end so the writing portion is exposed. In case anyone has questions.
Do NOT take possession of your luggage. Arrange to have it re-routed.
Port Authority Police in NY and NJ will arrest you on the spot if you are in possession of anything in contravention of state law (example: unpermitted non-residents with handguns in NY and NJ).
If you are in a situation where you have absolutely no choice but to take possession of your luggage - discreetly rent a car, get out of dodge and head to the nearest unoccupied territory.
For example - you're stuck at LaGuardia or Newark, consider driving to Philly and get a connecting flight there.
If you are in NY or NJ and try to re-check your luggage on another carrier, woe be unto you.
This post intrigued me because I *thought* the FOPA (Firearms Owners` Protection Act)basically covered you in cases where you traveled THROUGH a shitty state. I was going to call BS on this post but found this on the NRA's website.
Special Advisory for New York and New Jersey Airports: Despite federal law that protects travelers, authorities at JFK, La Guardia, Newark and Albany airports have been known to enforce state and local firearms laws against airline travelers who are merely passing through the jurisdiction. In some cases, even persons traveling in full compliance with federal law have been arrested or threatened with arrest. As noted above in the section entitled "Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms," FOPA`s protections have been substantially narrowed by court decisions, and persons traveling with firearms may want to avoid New York and New Jersey or make arrangements to ship their firearms to their destination, rather than bringing them through these jurisdictions.
I hate this country sometimes..."the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission" I believe someone on this forum has that quote in their sig--this would be, imo, an apt illustration.
Bah, I don't wanna derail the thread. Thanks for the heads up. It would be my luck that I get re-routed to NYC and get my guns seized.
eccollision
11-30-11, 16:30
thanks i have been looking for this info
Bah, I don't wanna derail the thread. Thanks for the heads up. It would be my luck that I get re-routed to NYC and get my guns seized.
When I moved back from Hawaii this last time I shipped my AR's to Lake Havasu, AZ post office to avoid bringing them into LAX and driving them thru California. I dont wanna be the one getting hemmed up in a commie state and potentially losing $7-8k worth of guns.
4. Give yourself an extra 30 mins prior to departure. (This will account for the check agent that has never dealt with the tactical traveler!)
I think it's the most important point you have mentioned there. But overall it's fantastic post.
just wonderful article. Thanks a lot for sharing.
I traveled yesterday with 1 pelican 1700 case filled with 4 pistols, 1 complete m4 and 1 stripped lower receiver. I discreetly told the gentlemen with US Airways I was checking firearms. He loudly asked at a busy airport "is it a rifle?" I again discreetly stated my case contains firearms. He again asked "is it a rifle?". So I finally got firm and said. "Sir, I have multiple firearms of varrying types, when we go to the side I will open it for you to put the unloaded declaration inside and you will see them."
He finally got the hint but "my cover was blown" and I now had the attention of everyone's eyes fixated on my subtly marked black pelican case with only an unassuming F2S Consulting decal on it.
What's with these people? Why is he so hungry for me to tell him it's a rifle when their firearms policy is the same for all firearms?
I traveled yesterday with 1 pelican 1700 case filled with 4 pistols, 1 complete m4 and 1 stripped lower receiver. I discreetly told the gentlemen with US Airways I was checking firearms. He loudly asked at a busy airport "is it a rifle?" I again discreetly stated my case contains firearms. He again asked "is it a rifle?". So I finally got firm and said. "Sir, I have multiple firearms of varrying types, when we go to the side I will open it for you to put the unloaded declaration inside and you will see them."
He finally got the hint but "my cover was blown" and I now had the attention of everyone's eyes fixated on my subtly marked black pelican case with only an unassuming F2S Consulting decal on it.
What's with these people? Why is he so hungry for me to tell him it's a rifle when their firearms policy is the same for all firearms?
sounds like you just ran into a self important a Hole..... I use the 1750 for my M1A AND m4 plus all the other stuff that goes with....
sounds like you just ran into a self important a Hole.....
Indeed. I flew 3 more times with the same setup within the month and had no more problems.
mariodesmo
01-29-12, 01:04
When I moved back from Hawaii this last time I shipped my AR's to Lake Havasu, AZ post office to avoid bringing them into LAX and driving them thru California. I dont wanna be the one getting hemmed up in a commie state and potentially losing $7-8k worth of guns.
California local PD's will arrest anyone in possession of assault weapons, or other "Calif illegal" weapons regardless of circumstances.
You can posses an assault weapon as long as it has a non detachable magazine (bullet button) and a maximum capacity of 10 rounds. Then it's not an assault weapon...
FireLine308
02-03-12, 19:03
Thanks for the great tips, wish I had them last month when I flew. I recently flew with complete uppers only and notified front counter that even though I didn't have a firearm I had a upper and I wanted TSA as I was there to inspect and give the go ahead so I could lock it. I had a lock that was part of the case and I needed the key to lock it. Everything went smooth but it did take an extra 10 to 15 minutes to get this done but well worth it.
Jason Falla
02-07-12, 20:59
It's been a while since I wrote the original post here. Not that too much has changed in terms of rules and regs but a few minor changes with my travel habits with guns.
Firstly, with regard to the TSA locks on the OP. Disregard that. What I really meant to say there was that make sure the padlock is one that TSA won't think is suspect, like a travel lock on a suitcase!
I now use four strips of gorilla grip tape on my pelican case and carry the role with me in case I need more. I tape down the latches of my Pelican case with it. I always get to the other end and at least two of the latches are opened up. Nothing can come out of the case, I don't want the latches to snap off. Plus it just prevents hands from wondering.
I use padlocks on all of my travel bags also. I sat next to a baggage hander on the way back from a training course. I told a story of how one of them had screwed me over by placing someone else's items in my bags. The baggage handler then let me know that happens all the time! If a bag splits and looses its belongings, they simply stuff the items into the closest bag and hope for the best! So to avoid the explanation, secure all of your bags!
I now use South West for all of my air travel to take advantage of the two free checked bags. I know that when away on business, I will always have a gun case and an 'A' bag with me that I will have to check. South West now saves me over $120.00 in baggage fees. I have not had any problems with the carrier and traveling with weapons at this time. Always make sure you check in 24hrs on the dot prior to your flight though in order to secure a good boarding number.
Safe Travels,
I try to schedule 60-90 minutes between flights if I have to change planes. I was told by a friend (baggage handler) that the airlines give themselves an hour to move a bag from one plane to another.
I will pay extra to avoid cities like Chicago, NYC or others if I feel getting delayed may result in my arrest.
Don't plan on travelling to California again.
Southwest has never been a problem, but I am usually flying to/from a firearm friendly location.
Great thread, thanks for the info!
I've checked a pistol when flying in the past, but never a long gun.
Any suggestions on what Pelican case, or similar case, for traveling with 2 AR-15s?
While I'm asking, anyone have lock recommendations?
Thanks
Jason Falla
02-09-12, 22:16
Great thread, thanks for the info!
I've checked a pistol when flying in the past, but never a long gun.
Any suggestions on what Pelican case, or similar case, for traveling with 2 AR-15s?
While I'm asking, anyone have lock recommendations?
Thanks
I use a 1720 when I travel with multiple guns. I have checked (3) M4s and (2) pistols in that case. I had to break them down and remove one of the foam panels but it all worked out and was bearly underweight.
I have a 1700 also but I don't like the wheel configuration. I am always finding myself moving quickly to and from rental car lots to check it etc and have my long wheeled 'A-Bag' (gear), a small wheeled bag (civies) and my gun case. The 1720 rolls well when moving fast! The 1700 gets bad speed wobbles and creates mega frustration.
Padlock wise, choose a good quality security padlock with short neck shackles. Due to the diameter of the Pelican padlock holes, you are restricted slightly with size of padlock.
Make sure that if the clasps are open the lid can not raise up at all to allow fingers in or equipment out. As posted previously, I use gorilla tape to secure the clasps now.
Thanks for the quick reply and detailed answer Jason!
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/accounts/sas/
Alaskapopo
02-13-12, 04:19
Have a copy of the airlines own rules with you and stick it in the case with your ammo. Alaska Airlines allows up to 50 pounds of ammunition. I had no problem going to a match it was when I was returning that I nearly missed my flight because TSA was clueless and I refused to throw away $200 in ammo. It got sorted out but it was not fun.
Pat
This has happened almost exactly the same twice. Can't remember the airline, but I brought the Airline's own rules printed from their website with me just in case. Yes, I needed them. The airlines rules on their computer were written differently than the rules on their own website.
The debate (first:confused:) was over ammo in same case as gun. Two gals against and the gal-like guy thought it was OK. Then when that was worked out it was how the ammo was stored as it had to be in a sealed box and or covered magazine on website and on their computer it was just a sealed box. I had loaded the mags and they were in belt pouches (Sparks and Kydex) so they argued and I missed my plane and when we finally got the TSA Gun Tag guy over he was actually great and told them politely they were idiots and he took care of me and IIRC I still missed my flight and luckily got on another 40min later but it did have extra stop and really screwed me. I did it all right and still got bent over.
Follow Jason's advice and just expect it to be a lottery if you get the idiot at departure counter or not
I needed to take my pistol and gear with me but didn't have time to get a flight schedule entered with the TSA. I checked the TSA and airline's websites and followed their instructions to the letter. When I arrived, I was told the way I packed my ammunition was not acceptable. I explained that I had followed their instructions and now I being told the rules/regs were different upon arrival. They would not budge. I took the questioned ammunition back to my vehicle.
When I returned from my trip, I talked to the TSA rep, who happens to be stationed in my building. I explained the situation and he said I was right and had been told incorrect information by the TSA at the local airport. I volunteered the TSA rep's name and supervisor's name and he had a sit down with them to iron out the problems.
It hasn't happened since and I don't expect it will happen again.
I've flown out of the San Jose airport with my 870, and a few boxes of shells in a hard case, no problem. No TSA locks either.
I'm still a little uneasy about flying with my CA-configured AR due to the general lack of knowledge here about OLL's, bullet buttons, etc. If I leave the mag out, as recommended, it looks like a detachable mag, and I would rather not have to explain what a bullet button is at the airport.
There has been some progress with more and more LE agencies recognizing OLL builds, but you still hear stories of confiscated rifles, and the pain in the ass it is to get them back. To plenty of people in CA, any AR is an "assault rifle" and "you can't have one of those".
I needed to take my pistol and gear with me but didn't have time to get a flight schedule entered with the TSA. I checked the TSA and airline's websites and followed their instructions to the letter. When I arrived, I was told the way I packed my ammunition was not acceptable. I explained that I had followed their instructions and now I being told the rules/regs were different upon arrival. They would not budge. I took the questioned ammunition back to my vehicle.
When I returned from my trip, I talked to the TSA rep, who happens to be stationed in my building. I explained the situation and he said I was right and had been told incorrect information by the TSA at the local airport. I volunteered the TSA rep's name and supervisor's name and he had a sit down with them to iron out the problems.
It hasn't happened since and I don't expect it will happen again.
How was it packed, and what did they want you to do?
How was it packed, and what did they want you to do?
The information on the TSA site said the pistol was to be unloaded, and stored in a locked box. I had my ammo in the mags, secured on top. The problem arose when there was a single round not in a mag (my chamber round). The box was lined with egg crate type material and padded all the way around. Their gripe was that the single round could somehow explode if it were struck on the primer during the flight. I offered to cut a small hole in the foam and bury it, but they had already made their minds up. I quoted the policy from TSA and they said the ammo had to be stored in a manufacturer's box....which is NOT the policy as stated on the TSA website. Basically, they were making up their own rules. The TSA Regional Director agreed. They could have allowed me to secure the round inside the foam material and it would have been fine.
What was interesting is that when they told me it would have to be in a manufacturer's box, I pointed out that the loaded mags were not in a box...they mumbled and continued to worry about the single round.
If I recall the way the ammo regs are designed is the ammo in factory box or fully enclosed box magazines or some such verbiage and so if they are in mags it is OK if the mags are loaded and in carriers completely enclosing the rounds from impact or getting loose.
Sometimes I put my CCW gun in a VMII and loaded mags in Sparks mag pouches and lock in box and am gtg and sometimes its a battle. I have found the Airline folk only understand the factory box, so in the future I will probably go that route as it ain't worth the misery.
Alaskapopo
02-23-12, 02:46
If I recall the way the ammo regs are designed is the ammo in factory box or fully enclosed box magazines or some such verbiage and so if they are in mags it is OK if the mags are loaded and in carriers completely enclosing the rounds from impact or getting loose.
Sometimes I put my CCW gun in a VMII and loaded mags in Sparks mag pouches and lock in box and am gtg and sometimes its a battle. I have found the Airline folk only understand the factory box, so in the future I will probably go that route as it ain't worth the misery.
They won't let you travel with loaded magazines. Had that hold up a friend of mine.
Pat
23 CONUS trips with loaded magazines in a three year period...kept in enclosed pouches, though. No loose ammo is the center of gravity, the intent, of the regulation, but....
All that means is that there's a right way, a wrong way, and a TSA way; too many ways. NOT that your bud did something to get himself hung up. The inconsistencies are everywhere. There's a certain element of Spin the Wheel of Destiny to all of it, and as Jason and others have stated, carrying hard copies of both TSA and your chosen airline's policies is a REAL good idea.
I had a friend meet me at my destination with a factory box and unloaded all my mags into the box for the return trip. Problem solved.
The problem arose when there was a single round not in a mag (my chamber round). The box was lined with egg crate type material and padded all the way around. Their gripe was that the single round could somehow explode if it were struck on the primer during the flight. I offered to cut a small hole in the foam and bury it, but they had already made their minds up....What was interesting is that when they told me it would have to be in a manufacturer's box, I pointed out that the loaded mags were not in a box...they mumbled and continued to worry about the single round.
Just ditch the loose round and move on.
They won't let you travel with loaded magazines. Had that hold up a friend of mine.
Pat
I always fly with loaded magazines, stored in flapped pouches, and haven't had a problem. The 22rd 40SW Glock mags are great for carrying contingency ammo as well. I will sometimes throw an empty cartridge box in my bag just in case, but not always.
For destinations I frequently visit, I have supplies pre-positioned that can be brought to me at the airport when I arrive if needed.
Just ditch the loose round and move on.
I always fly with loaded magazines, stored in flapped pouches, and haven't had a problem. The 22rd 40SW Glock mags are great for carrying contingency ammo as well. I will sometimes throw an empty cartridge box in my bag just in case, but not always.
For destinations I frequently visit, I have supplies pre-positioned that can be brought to me at the airport when I arrive if needed.
actually i was traveling for work and it didn't cross my mind to leave the extra round behind. i always fly armed, so when they called me back to the baggage area, i wasn't ready for such a hassle. my dept didn't get the paperwork entered on time, so i was notified at the last minute that i would need to take a secure box, etc. with me to the airport. the dept has since fixed this problem.
Veritasftw
03-05-12, 21:47
23 CONUS trips with loaded magazines in a three year period...kept in enclosed pouches, though. No loose ammo is the center of gravity, the intent, of the regulation, but....
All that means is that there's a right way, a wrong way, and a TSA way; too many ways. NOT that your bud did something to get himself hung up. The inconsistencies are everywhere. There's a certain element of Spin the Wheel of Destiny to all of it, and as Jason and others have stated, carrying hard copies of both TSA and your chosen airline's policies is a REAL good idea.
I agree with JSantoro. Beat them at their own "game." It's a great idea to bring hardcopies of the airline and TSA policies with you, so if the time arises you can argue (defend) with evidence (their own policies).
All in all, just travel smart.
Haven't seen this mentioned in a while, but when flying with firearms I always wear a nice suit and tie. People tend to question you a lot less when you look like you own a bank instead of someone who might rob one. Nobody's afraid of a white collar professional doing anything physically harmful to them.
Also I always strip my firearms so even the stupidest person I could possibly run into can clearly see at a glance that not only they unloaded but also unable to fire and completely safe. They might not know exactly what they're seeing but springs and loose parts that don't look like they're shaped like a gun are a lot less intimidating. Most folks get the idea that if they're seeing springs and rods that means whatever it is isn't put together and working.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
06-10-12, 02:51
I'd like to share some of my experiences in flying with firearms. I mainly fly between San Diego and Denver International with AR15's and an assortment of pistols.
When flying, I dress like I just woke up. I dont treat it as a formal event, I treat it as the next opportunity to catch some of those precious Z's. You will generally find me in a hoodie and sweats, or shorts and a t-shirt if I am flying to warmer weather. I have multiple exposed tattoos, and am highly unshaven as soon as I can check out on leave and head to the airport. If I didnt present a military ID, they wouldnt have any idea that I was mil, and a few times I have only shown my CO DL as ID. Never have I been treated as a thug or a danger. Im not about to wear a suit to the damn airport simply because I want to check a Glock 19.
On almost every occasion, the lady at the ticket counter has only asked if they are unloaded, only once was I asked to demonstrate that my P220 was unloaded. I held the pistol safely in the air, and showed her the empty chamber. Since I keep all the actions locked back on all my firearms while flying, I didnt have to scare any sheep by racking the slide.
I fly with ammunition in magazines and the mags in mag holders. This has never once been an issue. But, the TSA has a set of rules that the TSA rarely follows, so I wont be surprised if someday I do get hassled about it. Until that day, I'll keep on keeping on.
Clerks in CA have been suprisingly knowledgable and professional. Everytime they see me waiting with a rifle case, they bring me to the front of the line so I can be processed as fast as possible. The XRay in SD is located right next to the ticket counters, so after a 5 minute wait you are generally sent on your way. Only one time did they forget to tell me I was good, so after waiting 20 minutes I checked with a teller and off I went. DIA is another story as the Xray is on the other side of that gigantic airport. After checking your firearms, a Ugandan will come out with a dolley and ask to take your firearm, you have the option to accompany him or trust that he will be really nice to your guns. Assuming that you chose to accompany him, you will make the 10min walk to the Xrays, and then (this is the part where you need to pay attention), the Ugandan is going to take your gun OUTSIDE on the other side of the airport and slide it through a baggage port. Make sure you keep tabs on these guys as your firearms will literally be leaving the building. If flying out of DIA give yourself an extra 30min for this process.
I have only had one instance where my gun case didnt arrive with the rest of my bags. This was at LAX, and when the rest of my luggage arrived they set it with all the other bags and left it unsupervised for who knows how long. I picked it up, walked to the other side of baggage claim, handed them my ticket, and walked off. I try not to fly in/out of LAX anymore.
Hope this helps.
Don't plan on travelling to California again.
Southwest has never been a problem, but I am usually flying to/from a firearm friendly location.
just avoid lax, burbank, sfo, and oakland and you'll be fine. every time i have flown out of san diego, they've always known exactly what to do and it adds about 30 seconds to the checking process.
Falsecrack
08-03-12, 03:43
How about instances where there's multiple flights? I'm wanting to take a couple of my rifles from Maui to Colorado (to visit my bro) and that typically involves at least 2 layovers. Anyone do the multi-flight thing? Any additional advice for the uninitiated?
I've never had a hiccup when traveling. I usually fly out of a small airport and then into a bigger one. I just declare I have it at checkin and whallah, do the whole horse and pony show no big deal.
I can only imagine the headaches you guys have out of big airports like, Denver, or Minneapolis.
I can only imagine the headaches you guys have out of big airports like, Denver, or Minneapolis.
I fly in and out of DIA and MSP quite a bit. Both are easy. DFW was also easy during a recent trip. Actually, DFW was awesome. My TSA screeners there were a hoot and I wrote their sups an atta-boy afterward. Where I've had issues in any airport, it's always small issues with ticket agents, not TSA. They are usually resolved quickly with brief conversations with supervisors.
It's always possible to draw a bad employee, or a good employee having a bad day. A lot of preparation and a little personality go a long way in getting through these people with minimal effort though. I make it a point to choose conflict wisely with people who impact the timeliness of my travel and my meals, and it's served me pretty well.
ghostrider1
10-19-12, 12:30
Has anyone flew out of BWI or Reagan national and had any issue? I plan on flying to San Antonio to take some classes along with my uncle. Since I am flying out of an non-gun friendly state, I want to make sure everything goes as smooth as possible.
mikelowrey
10-19-12, 12:46
Has anyone flew out of BWI or Reagan national and had any issue? I plan on flying to San Antonio to take some classes along with my uncle. Since I am flying out of an non-gun friendly state, I want to make sure everything goes as smooth as possible.
Try and reach to the local police that covers the airport and ask them, they should now what to do with it. In NY every time I'm flying out of JFK you tell the counter, counter calls TSA and TSA calls the Port Authority Police, so what I do is I notify P.A. directly on my way there and meet them at the airport, the inspect everything, and then GTG.
Don't forget to contact the TSA too just in case since you know they are the problem in the airport, not the solution.
And... for the record, If I insulted anybody that works for TSA, I apologize, I didn't mean to, is just besides the news, I had bad experience with them.
Thanks for all the tips, folks. Two weeks ago, I flew with a pistol in my bag. I did as was recommended. A Pelican 1200 case with a G19, two unloaded mags and a box of ammo cut down to hold 35 rounds. Flying out Chicago was no problem at all. They let me put a red card in the pistol case and another inside the bigger bag that the pistol case was in. The TSA gave it a quick look ans swab and I was on my way.
ABQ was a little different. I declared the firearm in my luggage. The girl at the counter asked if I was LEO, which I am. She told me to fill out a form for carrying on the plane. It took a couple tries to explain to her that the gun was secured in my bag. After that, I got two red cards again, and the bag was sent back to TSA without me. I was told to wait about 5 minutes, at which time, I could assume everything checked out and I could board. Everything did check out, but I also had my cell number taped to the box in case they wanted to open my non-TSA locks.
I arrived home, with no real issues the whole trip. Thanks!
MountainRaven
11-10-12, 19:24
My apologies for the semi-necro, but....
Finding out what to do when checking a firearm in as checked luggage is the easy part. Figuring out what to do with a long gun (and multiple long guns and handguns with long guns) is easy. Figuring out how to pack a single handgun is proving somewhat difficult, so can I pretty please get a general consensus on how to?
The non-TSA lock is a given. Pistol unloaded, magazines removed, ammunition in original factory packaging. Possibly lock slide open.
What I've read thus far has consisted of the following options:
-A small pistol case. (ie: Pelican 1200)
-A small pistol case inside a larger soft-sided piece of luggage. (ie: Pelican 1200 inside a duffel)
-A small rifle or large camera case. (Pelican 1600 or larger, which in turn doubles as luggage for transporting clothing.)
This is further complicated by suggestions that the case be left plain, covered in non-firearms-related stickers, or covered in firearms-related stickers.
The issue is complicated for me somewhat on the basis that I have perfected the art of comfortably living out of a carry-on bag for up to a week... and the art of the simple, lightweight pack has a rather strong hold on my psyche.
So... what specifically should one use for travelling with a handgun?
Thank you!
mikelowrey
11-10-12, 20:35
My apologies for the semi-necro, but....
Finding out what to do when checking a firearm in as checked luggage is the easy part. Figuring out what to do with a long gun (and multiple long guns and handguns with long guns) is easy. Figuring out how to pack a single handgun is proving somewhat difficult, so can I pretty please get a general consensus on how to?
The non-TSA lock is a given. Pistol unloaded, magazines removed, ammunition in original factory packaging. Possibly lock slide open.
What I've read thus far has consisted of the following options:
-A small pistol case. (ie: Pelican 1200)
-A small pistol case inside a larger soft-sided piece of luggage. (ie: Pelican 1200 inside a duffel)
-A small rifle or large camera case. (Pelican 1600 or larger, which in turn doubles as luggage for transporting clothing.)
This is further complicated by suggestions that the case be left plain, covered in non-firearms-related stickers, or covered in firearms-related stickers.
The issue is complicated for me somewhat on the basis that I have perfected the art of comfortably living out of a carry-on bag for up to a week... and the art of the simple, lightweight pack has a rather strong hold on my psyche.
So... what specifically should one use for travelling with a handgun?
Thank you!
I don't have anything specifically to recommend for you but I can tell you that when I traveled to Florida from NY about 3 years ago, I just took my gun in the same box I got when it was issued to me. What I did was I put the gun lock thru the barrel, and I put a combination lock outside, ammunition was in the luggage.
Figuring out how to pack a single handgun is proving somewhat difficult, so can I pretty please get a general consensus on how to?
Not sure I follow... Put the handgun (or handguns) in a locked hard case, inside a bag of your choosing. Disclose to the ticket agent an d cooperate with TSA.
My apologies for the semi-necro, but....
Finding out what to do when checking a firearm in as checked luggage is the easy part. Figuring out what to do with a long gun (and multiple long guns and handguns with long guns) is easy. Figuring out how to pack a single handgun is proving somewhat difficult, so can I pretty please get a general consensus on how to?
The non-TSA lock is a given. Pistol unloaded, magazines removed, ammunition in original factory packaging. Possibly lock slide open.
What I've read thus far has consisted of the following options:
-A small pistol case. (ie: Pelican 1200)
-A small pistol case inside a larger soft-sided piece of luggage. (ie: Pelican 1200 inside a duffel)
-A small rifle or large camera case. (Pelican 1600 or larger, which in turn doubles as luggage for transporting clothing.)
This is further complicated by suggestions that the case be left plain, covered in non-firearms-related stickers, or covered in firearms-related stickers.
The issue is complicated for me somewhat on the basis that I have perfected the art of comfortably living out of a carry-on bag for up to a week... and the art of the simple, lightweight pack has a rather strong hold on my psyche.
So... what specifically should one use for travelling with a handgun?
Thank you!
It's very easy.
You get a locking hard sided container. You lock the unloaded handgun in it. You put it in your suitcase. You declare the unloaded gun with your airline agent at the counter. Then you do what they say (fill out and sign card, go to oversize baggage check, TSA probably asks you to open case to look into it, yo go on your way)
I use my www.center-of-mass.com car safe. http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm
You can have ammunition in the case with the gun per TSA, but I put the (loaded) magazines in mag pouches, and then bring a box or two of loose rounds in the original boxes.
I can't imagine going a week with nothing but carry-on-safe items
Ned Christiansen
11-12-12, 10:08
Large busy airports, small regional ones, I have had exemplary treatment by TSA, even acting as porters sometimes to carry the stuff from the check-in counter over to their station. Professional and helpful, never a down-the-nose look.
But these days it's maybe twice a year.
For pistols I have a nothing-special hard case securely screwed to the bottom of a decent but again nothing-special hard-sided suitcase. It gets a padlock. It would be not impossible, but a little time consuming, to get it all open. They can't just grab the little hardcase and run.
Coming back from LAX in 1988, I had an AK stolen from baggage (American Airlines). It was a chintzy case (lesson learned).... they busted it open on one end, slipped the AK out, and let the case go on its way. It did not arrive with my other luggage at my destination, which was my first clue that something was wrong. AA dutifully delivered the delayed case to my work and I watched the guy take it out of the van when he arrived-- I knew in that instant, the way he picked it up so effortlessly, that there was no rifle in there.
AA could not have cared less and what a runaround to get compensated. I could never reach anyone involved in the "investigation". I wrote letters and made phone calls-- HEY people, this was not a camera or lizard shoes, it's a goddamned GUN-- you have thieves working for you, do you not want to catch them? Nobody could even as much as tell me if it got to my connection on time so it would at least be determined at which airport it was stolen.
And I totally agree, it is a must to be up to speed on the rules and regs because the desk clerk may well not be. You can then politely guide them though the process, key word polite......
MountainRaven
11-17-12, 14:14
Gentlemen, thank you.
TSA lock on only the hard (pistol/internal) case, only the soft (external) luggage, or neither?
I can't imagine going a week with nothing but carry-on-safe items
I'm not going (and almost never go) alone. Typically, I have thrown my pocket knife in the checked luggage of a companion.
TSA lock on only the hard (pistol/internal) case, only the soft (external) luggage, or neither?
Non-TSA lock on the case containing the firearm. I use TSA locks on my luggage.
edgecrusher
11-18-12, 08:25
I recently traveled with my LaRue OBR and here are some extra tips that may help.
1. Save yourself a headache and try to book a direct flight. My luggage was delayed because it did not make the connection, and I got some more white hair and a lot less finger nails before it finally came.
2. I have a Pelican case that was new condition before the trip, and when I got after my destination was reached(including the guns delay) it looked like they were proof testing it! It was beat to crap, but it was all cosmetic, and a lesser case may not have made it.
3. Have the TSA rules printed up and bring them with you, not all the airline employees know the rules, or they interpret them in their own way. Have the hard evidence on you.
4. Do your best to keep it field cleaned when coming home, I just used the Clp and a boresnake, and it made a huge difference in what the machines picked up at the airport. We were delayed during Sandy, and went shooting with a friend, and had time and a place to do some clean up after. Passed through the machines without a problem, where as prior on the same trip a non cleaned rifle set off all the "alarms" and the case had to be opened.
The only problem I had was at Tuscon airport, on the first leg home, where an airline check in lady told me the case needed to be opened, and that she needed my key. This is a no no per the TSA rules, you keep the key in your possesion and should only give it to a TSA official. I showed her the print out and she flipped her lid. Eventually a TSA agent came out and said I was correct, but she was being rude to the both of us, so be prepared, know the rules, and good luck.
gearhead6s
11-28-12, 22:43
A few questions before I catch a flight home for the Holidays with my AR and 2 handguns. Flying from FLL to SDF via Southwest Airlines
1) anyone flying Southwest with a pelican 1720 been hit with oversized fees? Website says l+w+h of case cannot exceed 60" but the 1720 is 66"
2) Proper procedure is to walk into airport directly to check in counter, politely tell counter worker you are declaring an unloaded and locked firearm, open case if instructed to prove unloaded status, fill out a red tag (what info is on this tag?) put read tag in case ,lock case and then hand over to the baggage handler at the counter?
3) anyone have problems with loaded Pmags with caps on in the same case?
Thanks for this awesome thread!
The red/orange tags are essentially the same, may differ only in detail and wording. Here's the text of mine from a US Air flight to Charleston, SC, 2 weeks ago:
I understand that the carriage of a loaded weapon is a violation of federal regulations. I therefore declare that the firearm(s) contained in my luggage is not loaded and all ammunition is separated from the firearm(s). Further, I declare that there is no loose ammunition in my baggage.
Flight #, Employee # of the airline personnel processing my declaration, date, and "STN" (I'm presuming it means "station") fields were filled in by the counter lady. Passenger signs to declare.
The center of gravity is separated from the weapon and that there's no loose ammo, but whether or not jammed mags with caps, or put in a pouch or ziplock bag is okay is often dependent upon the interpretation of whichever airline employee or TSA rep is on-hand. Coin-toss, but I default to keeping jammed mags in a zippered man-purse when I don't use an ammo can.
Once inspected and your baggage secured, you may either simply hand off to the counter person to get it on the belt, OR you'll be escorted with your bag to where it can be scanned and go into the chute. Richmond airport, it's the former (they'll call me over the loudspeaker if any further action is required, but I wait around the counter for 5-10min just in case...), at Dulles I get escorted to a screening station. I've no experience with your origin airport, so I couldn't begin to tell you which it'll be.
The red/orange tags are essentially the same, may differ only in detail and wording. Here's the text of mine from a US Air flight to Charleston, SC, 2 weeks ago:
Flight #, Employee # of the airline personnel processing my declaration, date, and "STN" (I'm presuming it means "station") fields were filled in by the counter lady. Passenger signs to declare.
The center of gravity is separated from the weapon and that there's no loose ammo, but whether or not jammed mags with caps, or put in a pouch or ziplock bag is okay is often dependent upon the interpretation of whichever airline employee or TSA rep is on-hand. Coin-toss, but I default to keeping jammed mags in a zippered man-purse when I don't use an ammo can.
Once inspected and your baggage secured, you may either simply hand off to the counter person to get it on the belt, OR you'll be escorted with your bag to where it can be scanned and go into the chute. Richmond airport, it's the former (they'll call me over the loudspeaker if any further action is required, but I wait around the counter for 5-10min just in case...), at Dulles I get escorted to a screening station. I've no experience with your origin airport, so I couldn't begin to tell you which it'll be.
My understanding is that the bag is never to go onto the belt straight-away after the airline employee gives you the unloaded declaration card. You are to be present when TSA inspects the bag, so that you can open the locked container the firearm is in if (when) they ask (since only you can open the locked container, not them).
I have flown many many times with a checked firearm, in many airports. The one and only time that my bag went on the belt without doing the follow-or-take-it-to-TSA-thing , I missed my flight because when I got to my gate they were paging me to go ALLL the way back (I had the farthest terminal away in Atlanta) so I could open the case for TSA. I did not have time to make the round trip before my flight left.
I had argued with the airline employee and she insisted that she could just set it on the belt. I should have made a bigger deal out of it, I guess. It cost me nearly 4 hours while I waited for their next flight. They did give me a first class upgrade at no charge for their mistake, at least.
I have checked a firearm at:
Atlanta
O'hare
Midway
Orlando
Milwaukee
Denver
Idaho Falls
Lihue (Hawaii)
Indianapolis
And others I am probably forgetting. Some of the above dozens of times.
Other than that one time I mentioned above, I and the bag have gone to the TSA screening point (usually oversize baggage). That one ended badly as a result.
mikelowrey
11-30-12, 02:39
When I checked mine from JFK to Miami intl airport I was present at all times while Tsa and airline counter guy were around my luggage, I even walked with them when they were putting in the luggage belt. After that I went to my gate. I had a friend who Tsa "supposedly" walked his luggage personally to the the plane.
My understanding is that the bag is never to go onto the belt straight-away after the airline employee gives you the unloaded declaration card. You are to be present when TSA inspects the bag, so that you can open the locked container the firearm is in if (when) they ask (since only you can open the locked container, not them).
Hence the inclusion of "Once inspected and your baggage secured...." in my post. There are airports where TSA comes to the counter and everything gets done from there.
Not my first rodeo, either, and I'm not going through 7 years of expense reports to list a complete resume of airports through which I've had to traipse with firearms and ancillary systems that require declaration. Too much work, even if it didn't smack of story-topping. :p
A problem with talking to folks from a "What To Do..." standpoint is that the principles are all the same, but how they are executed can differ wildly. The most accurate anybody can get in this regard is when speaking to specific Point A --> Point B and back trips, and even that can vary based upon who's on-deck when you get there...
Whomever it was that came up with "It's the journey, not the destination..." did NOT account for modern air travel. It's all about the destination, the journey is a colossal kick in the junk before you ever get to the point of "Kid, if you don't stop kicking my seat, I'm gonna hit you so hard that your grandmother dies...." :D
I think some of the difference would be due to where TSA inspects luggage.. up near the counter, or through the belt system in back. Generally the only reason a case needs inspection(after declaration)is if the xray image isn't enough to identify what is in the case. There is also some gray in what is ammo packaging (Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.) Many airlines, or some airline employees, don't consider Magazines to be "packaging" for ammo. Southwest Airlines policy is: Magazines or clips containing ammunition must be securely packaged (placed in another small box or in a secure cutout in the carrying case, in order to protect the primer of the ammunition).
Ghost 954RR
06-05-13, 11:59
I wanted to add that in Ohio, a loaded magazine is considered a loaded firearm, so having loaded magazines in your case is not permitted if flying into, out of, or layover in Ohio.
These are my words of advice for the tactical traveller!
1. Check the regulations for "traveling with guns" with your preferred air carrier.
[B]2. Suck up the excess baggage charges.
[B]3. Don't pack more guns in one case than the regulations allow.
[B]4. Give yourself an extra 30 mins prior to departure.
[B]5. Do a 100% check for live rounds.
6. [B]Check the limitations on traveling with live rounds. (I think it is 11lbs total.
7. Look like a military service member!
8. Don't place any gung-ho ass kickin stickers on your gun case.
[B]9. Weigh your gun case prior to arriving at the check in if possible.
[B]10. Let the check in agent know that you are checking guns.
[B]11. Don't use your gun case to store any explosive material!
[B]12. Make sure that your weapons are unloaded with magazines removed.
13. Keep your ID handy at the other end!
14. Be prepared for your guns to be a no show!
I've traveled once with long guns. The pistols were shipped from FFL to FFL.
Travel was from NY Laguardia to Miami, probably in '04.
1. I did a cursory review lol
2. I don't remember any
3. I had two long guns in one case and I don't remember checking for a limit.
4. I probably did that
5. Yep, all rounds in check-in bag. See below.
6. I packed a .30cal can in my baggage and it had linked 30-06 in it lol. Way more than 11lbs. Passed :D
7. Couldn't pull that one.
8. Totally clean generic brown gun case
9. Didn't weight anything.:o
10. Yep, definitely. Sticker goes IN the case, not on it.
11. Check
12. Check
13. Didn't have to. Gun case came right out with the luggage :rolleyes:
14. Still .... very relieved.
When I informed about firearms they called a real NYC cop (not LGA or TSA security) and he did a chamber check and called in serial numbers. He did drop the bolt on the commercial M1 Carbine though (which is easy to do) BAM! It was loud lol. TSA guys were standing around (this is all done at an area near the check in counter) and they were asking some questions, Hey what do you have? That looks cool. What's that?
Then a TSA guy came, put the case all by itself on a cart, and took it to .... wherever and of course eventually on the plane.
Being NYC and all I was concerned about whatever laws were different from the suburbs. The cop did ask where I came from (Scarsdale) and he left it at that.
Once checking IN at Miami going TO NY I had a shoulder bag with me and I remembered that I had a Glock homey clip (33rnd mag) at the bottom with 33 rnds of highly precious 124+p Gold Dot.
It hurt to lose that Gold Dot lol. The mag traveled with me to NY, and back, and no children were injured.
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