View Full Version : IMI Galil SAR
OK, I'm posting this here rather than in the NFA section because a great deal of this thread is applicable to standard semi auto variations of the Galil.
These are pics of my pre-86 dealer sample Magnum Research machine gun. This is a factory full auto rifle that was imported prior to 1986 to be sold to dealers licensed to sell machine guns, mainly as sales samples for police departments.
It was new in the box when I got a hold of it....it's not new in the box any more....
There are three things I'm not real enthused about it, all of which are a product of the time and design of the Galil.
1) 1/12" twist barrel. Not a lot to be done about that, other than scoring a 1/7" IMI barrel and dealing with the head ache of replacing it.
2) The selector works in the opposite direction of the civilian semi auto selectors...in other words, safe is up front, full auto is in the middle, and semi auto is all the way at the rear....much less ergonomic than the civilian set up where fire is up front and safe is in back. Not a lot that can be done about that, I don't think.
3) In the 1970's, when the Galil was being developed and finally fielded, being able to charge the weapon with your off hand, coming over the dust cover, was high speed, low drag....but with the advent and use of modern, high quality optics, that vertical charging handle gets in the way and is a disadvantage. Fortunately, I was able to score a piece of unobtainium, an IMI/IWI horizontal cocking handle bolt carrier that was made up for a small contract in South America (Colombia I think).
Troy is now making their Battle Rail for it, and I think they will also have an upgrade kit for the cocking handle as well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/2011-06-30_17-18-15_88.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050867.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050868.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050872.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050876.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050880.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050879.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1050882.jpg
Here's a comparison of the old style vertical charging handle, and the new horizontal style.
Original style on the bottom, new optics friendly model on top:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060033.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060032.jpg
Original:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060042.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060043.jpg
New Hotness:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060044.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060041.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060040.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060039.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060037.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060036.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060035.jpg
Installed, ready to rock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060045.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060046.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060047.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060048.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060049.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/IMI%20Galil%20SAR/P1060050.jpg
I'm seriously considering the Troy rail...these were developed primarily for customers in Central and South America. Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Mexico; many, many countries south of the border use them.
I'm not connected to Troy at all. It does seem like they're in the fore front of Galil upgrades.
http://store.troyind.com/Galil_BattleRail_p/srai-gal-00bt-00.htm?Click=8066
Installation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmFEsrm7mj8&feature
And the really cool part, which I found after I bought the IMI bolt carrier....it looks like Troy is selling a kit to modify standard bolt carriers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FzC3DNYY8A&feature
1) 1/12" twist barrel. Not a lot to be done about that, other than scoring a 1/7" IMI barrel and dealing with the head ache of replacing it.
I'd hardly be bothered by that. 1/12 just means you've been at this for a long time. It's not like the Galil is a "go to" gun anyway. If the Russians started dropping parachutes on us you aren't gonna grab that Galil anymore than I'm gonna grab my AR-180, my old SP1s or or my HK93.
These are guns we have for collector purposes. We all want the Reed Knight / Dan Shea "reference collection" and we are doing our best to catch up. At most we shoot them recreationally for fun. But we have much better candidate firearms for personal defense and unlikely events like Red Dawn scenarios.
Now if we were discussion a hypothetical firearm like the Galil(M) "modern" where the design was being updated for current military applications then we'd have to see more than a few changes and design upgrades.
In the meantime, it is just nice to own them and share the details with those who aren't fortunate enough to have any first hand experience with them.
buddyhoohaw
08-05-11, 19:26
Great pics and narrative Templar. The SAR has always been my favorite Galil. I was collecting parts to build a SAR clone and I never got past the receiver and barrel (it was 1 x 7 twist); both of which I sold several years ago.
Cheers
Wow, thanks for sharing that Templar. I've never seen or heard of that cocking handle. Very interesting how another item (The upturned standard Galil cocking handle) comes up that in it's time was forward thinking, but nowadays may not be (i.e. HBAR's; cocking handles on the right side because most shooters are right handed; carry handles).
Hate.
http://i52.tinypic.com/r2q3vo.jpg
MountainRaven
08-06-11, 00:00
Armakraut,
I have to ask, where is that image from? It looks suspiciously like Clive Owen.
Armakraut,
I have to ask, where is that image from? It looks suspiciously like Clive Owen.
Its from the movie called "Lebanon" about a Israeli tank crew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSh_lFvYmU
lloydkristmas
08-06-11, 12:18
Very nice. That right there is pretty much my grail gun.
Templar, what would you suggest if I wanted to get my hands on a setup (semi auto) just like that? SBR etc of course. I dont want to deal with Red Jacket, Elite, or of course Century. Got a reccomendation for a builder of a quality SAR like that?
KalashniKEV
08-06-11, 16:06
And the really cool part, which I found after I bought the IMI bolt carrier....it looks like Troy is selling a kit to modify standard bolt carriers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FzC3DNYY8A&feature
Holy good god!!!1!
That's a long and painful route to take, just to have a droopy, pinned on charging handle...
I guess they never heard of just swapping pistons on a '47 carrier?
(or Troy hopes they haven't heard of it) ;)
Hate.
http://i52.tinypic.com/r2q3vo.jpg
That pic is from a scene in the movie lebanon! It's a pretty cool movie!
M5Instructor
08-07-11, 04:00
Its from the movie called "Lebanon" about a Israeli tank crew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSh_lFvYmU
The movie was written directed and produced by Shmulik Maoz, our former company sergeant, in our IDF Armor Corps reserve unit.
The movie is based on his experiences in the First Lebanon War (Peace for Galilee Campaign began 06/06/1982).
Shmulik was wounded in an incident in Rafiah when we were deployed sometime in the late 1980's. His optic nerve in one eye was damaged. That marked the end of his reserve service. At the time he was studying film at Tel Aviv University.
Ok, I'll join the fun. Here is a pic of my Galil SAR semi. It has a perm attached extended FH to make it legal and the buttstock is an ACE side folder. The orginal weapon had a Galil buttstock, but the POS guy I sent it to to have it engraved switched buttstocks and won't admit it or return my call. What a turd.
So if anyone out there has a line on a galil buttstock I'd sure appreciate it.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7879/galilsare.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3327/galilsar2.jpg
KalashniKEV
08-23-11, 20:44
the POS guy I sent it to to have it engraved switched buttstocks and won't admit it or return my call. What a turd.
That sucks, dude!
Here's a pic from last weekend:
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Rifles/2011-08-20_17-30-01_678.jpg
The orginal weapon had a Galil buttstock, but the POS guy I sent it to to have it engraved switched buttstocks and won't admit it or return my call. What a turd.
Who was this?
Elite Firearms out of Fort Worth. I guess Karma was looking down on me when I posted this because I went over to gunbroker after I posted this and found a Galil buttstock, refinished, for 60 BUCKS!!
It's not the best looking buttstock, but I figure it will hold me over until I find a like new one down the road. It's better than the freakin ACE folder on there, IMO.
Once I have it and install it then I'll take some better pics. The rifle itself runs well and is a great little shooter.
SpartanDCI
08-24-11, 04:23
When I was with the Navy back in the 1980's, I worked pretty closely with a group that tested all types of weapons.
I particularly was very fond of the SAR Galil. Your model is one of the early versions, since it has the pinned on bayonet lug (used for mounting a huge lighting system circa 1980) and flared limiter on the flash hider.
I fired several thousand rounds out of two during a weekend test session at the old Navy Firing Range at Indian Head, MD. One was a SAR like yours......and the other was an IMI modded one. It had a pistol grip on the front handguard and a Mini Uzi style wire folding stock. The magazines were the south african R4 synthetic mags.....great item by the way. The "Mod" SAR also had a Smith Enterprises Vortex style flash hider only the prongs of the flash hider were straight (ca. 1988). Only differences in firing were the Mini Uzi style wire stock was not as comfortable to fire as the full size SAR stock and it kicked spent cases all over the place with no set pattern.
I had a chance to play with the same group at the range a year later, and they had upgraded all their Galils with the Buffertech style buffers that are available now. They also got a hold of a Galil 22 caliber subcal kit....which did not work very well and ultimately got thrown away. The unit gunsmith also modified the SAR stock so it folded in the opposite direction (folded on the left side of the receiver) for a left handed shooter & they had the IMI scope mount that mounted on the receiver dovetail. The smith also cut up an IMI steel mag and mounted it to a Beta C Mag for them to test. It worked pretty well, but it made the whole combination pretty heavy compared to the Colt M16A2 carbines they were carrying at the time.
I will try and find some of the photos we took at the range, but they are old 35mm prints, so I would have to scan them.
BTW, There was a guy in Virginia Beach that had 1/7 twist barrels for the SAR a few years ago. All were timed for IMI receivers and did not have the gas ports milled. I was told they were an easy rebuild, but the requirement for a good gunsmith with a mill was too much of a hassle since I had a Galil Semi ARM that is worht more than my first Jeep cost.
If you look you will find the parts for them. An original Magnum Research Galil AR15 magwell adapter would be cool to have also.
Good times and a good gun.
KalashniKEV
08-24-11, 07:24
Elite Firearms out of Fort Worth.
I've heard a boatload of bad things about them, but that's the worst.
Was it SBR engraving, or Hebrew?
Jeff Miller of Hill Billy Firearms does some really amazing Hebrew markings and IDF crest, for those who are into that:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14412&d=1245508379
He's actually the one that reworked my Century (yeah... I know) above and got it running like an absolute champ again. Easily the most knowledgeable and skilled Galil guy out there...
Now I know where the Serbs got their inspiration for the M21 series of rifles. They are almost identical in many aspects.
I've heard a boatload of bad things about them, but that's the worst.
Was it SBR engraving, or Hebrew?
Jeff Miller of Hill Billy Firearms does some really amazing Hebrew markings and IDF crest, for those who are into that:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14412&d=1245508379
He's actually the one that reworked my Century (yeah... I know) above and got it running like an absolute champ again. Easily the most knowledgeable and skilled Galil guy out there...
It was the Hebrew writing. He contacted me and told me that the manufacturer of the reciever he uses contacted him and told him that a batch of receivers weren't heat treated properly and weren't as durable. He said mine was one of them. The receiver on the weapon at the time had the hebrew marking on both sides and looked great. He told me he would replace it and it would look exactly the same. bullshit! Also, I had front and reat flip up night sites with tritium still in them! When the weapon came back it was with the rear flip up site without tritium, no front site, a different buttstock, and no engravings on the receiver! The guy is a total douchbag. He told me he would send me a couple of mags back with the weapon for my troubles as well. I did get 2 mags one was in great condition, but the other had what looks like a bullet hole or someone stabbed and twisted with a screw driver into the side!!! There's no way he could have missed it when he put it in there.
The guy is a POS and I would rather pay someone else to do the work rather than let him have my rifle again! FYI.
Wheww that felt better. I hate to bad talk someone, but that guy deserves it.
Awesome write-up and beautiful Galil, Templar.
If one were to SBR a pre-93 ban Galil, who would you recommend for the barrel work?
When did the IDF pretty much drop the Galil and go with the M4? Early 90s?
english kanigit
08-26-11, 09:54
This thread got me googling.
I had no idea there was such an animal as a 7.62 SAR. I now have a hard-on.
Ek :D
Cool SAR Tim
Its from the movie called "Lebanon" about a Israeli tank crew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hSh_lFvYmU
This movie was on late night last month on IFC and I DVRed it. It was pretty lame IMO.
Well there weren't any zombies in it, but you did get to see some Palestinian boobies! :happy:
Awesome write-up and beautiful Galil, Templar.
If one were to SBR a pre-93 ban Galil, who would you recommend for the barrel work?
When did the IDF pretty much drop the Galil and go with the M4? Early 90s?
They started getting M16's from us during the Yom Kippur War, and over the years they figured it was far cheaper to get M16's and M4's from us with their military aid credits than it was to build a rifle for themselves. Plus, the Galil is a heavy beast.
Early/mid 90's sounds about right though. There are still units using Galils, mainly armor and artillery, as well as reserves, but with so many M16 rifles and carbines, as well as the Tavor entering service with some units, I'm sure the Galil's days are numbered in IDF service.
Any of the known good AK smiths should be able to help you out with a Galil, although Jeff at Hillbilly Firearms is one of the most respected Galil guys out there. His website is just an email portal right now until he gets caught up.
http://hillbillyfirearms.com/
KalashniKEV
08-26-11, 20:39
Jeff at Hillbilly Firearms is one of the most respected Galil guys out there. His website is just an email portal right now until he gets caught up.
http://hillbillyfirearms.com/
I hope my rifle makes his pics page. He did a really great job on it... good communication too. I couldn't be happier.
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