View Full Version : Unarmed preppers???
I know some people that have stuff stockpiled for an emergency but they are thinking of smaller events. I want to say all of them have at least a gun though. If anything it is a hunting rifle/shotgun. Most that are prepared have a few guns though.
Some folks feel prepared with their 38 special revolver that grandpa handed down to them, which they've never fired or cleaned, & a crusty half box of ammo. Good luck to them.
I know a few(not many)who have pretty good stockpiles,but NO guns!I just don't get it....You guy's know anybody like this?Ever changed their minds???On another note,i know a few that refuse to prep.They have the "I don't want to be a target" mindset.Lost causes no doubt :(.
The_War_Wagon
08-06-11, 11:29
I know a few(not many)who have pretty good stockpiles,but NO guns!I just don't get it....You guy's know anybody like this?Ever changed their minds???On another note,i know a few that refuse to prep.They have the "I don't want to be a target" mindset.Lost causes no doubt :(.
Some MA newspaper did a story on such a year or two back - I think Survivalblog linked it. Talk about Grade A dumbasses; not only is their OPSEC blown, but now everyone KNOWS they CAN'T repel boarders! :blink:
Ah yes, my father likes to refer to these kinds of people as born victims.
That pretty much sums them up.
Yep. They are true victims but are preparing the horde that comes and take their supplies. They have it half right but they are freaking clueless in the ways of the world. Nothing but pure sheep.
I know of a few that think the Lord will save them
and they don't think past that.........
Moose-Knuckle
08-06-11, 12:14
Ah yes, my father likes to refer to these kinds of people as born victims.
What about the Amish? There will be no more if it gets that bad or they will be slaves to those who have the weapons.
Dan
couch_potato
08-06-11, 12:32
What about the Amish? There will be no more if it gets that bad or they will be slaves to those who have the weapons.
Dan
Most Amish own rifles and/or shotguns. Whether or not they will use them on people if the need should arise is another matter.
I know of a few that think the Lord will save them
and they don't think past that.........
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Amen brother.
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Although I do wish more people had the attitude of self help and not of entitlement...
http://www.acts17-11.com/cows_helps.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-help-themselves.html
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Reminds me of that old joke...
There was a flood occurring and a very devout preacher was standing knee deep in flood waters.
A boat of rescuers float by and offer him assistance to which he declines and says, Thank you for your offer, but I trust in God to save me. The rescuers leave...
Now, an hour later, he is waist deep in water and another boat comes by and offers assistance. He declines and says the same thing about his faith in God and the rescuers leave...
Fast forward another hour and now this man is neck deep in water. Another boat comes by and begs him to get in. They warn him that it won't be long before he drowns. He declines again and cites his faith in God and that God will deliver him.
Well, the flood waters flow over his head and he drowns.
Now he's in heaven and meets God. He asks God, wasn't I a good servant to you? Yes, God replies. He asks, wasn't I always obedient and followed your commandments? Yes, God replies.
Next he asks, Well, then, I have to ask you, why didn't you keep me from drowning in that flood???
God replies, You dumbass Motherf*cker, I sent three boats to save you didn't I?!?
I saw this the other day & believe it applies here.....
http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/20000/6000/100/126195/126195.strip.sunday.gif
Moose-Knuckle
08-08-11, 04:06
I saw this the other day & believe it applies here.....
http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/20000/6000/100/126195/126195.strip.sunday.gif
ROTFL. . .:lol:
I haven't seen this one yet but my father told me about it after a recent conversation we had on the subject.
I work with mostly guys and the topic usually comes up in conversation over the course of a work week. Most guys have a decent little supply of food and other supplies but when the topic turns to guns they usually either dont have one or they have one but no ammo. I always ask for their address and they look at me like:confused: so I just :no:.
One of my neighbors says he all set,he's got an old bolt action .22 :o.
I work with mostly guys and the topic usually comes up in conversation over the course of a work week. Most guys have a decent little supply of food and other supplies but when the topic turns to guns they usually either dont have one or they have one but no ammo. I always ask for their address and they look at me like:confused: so I just :no:.
Traveshamockery
08-09-11, 21:58
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
That's not in the Bible anywhere, but I agree with the general sentiment. I prefer to make my own luck whenever possible. :)
EDIT: Removed some unintentional snarkiness.
You either get it or you don't.... And a lot of people don't. I've stopped trying to talk sense into these people and or explaining my reasoning for why I see things the way I and most if not all of us here do. They usually piss me off and I tell'em just don't come to me when shit hits the fan. Which is something I've been told before too. People will say "oh when shit hits the fan I'm coming to your house haha". Sorry, no your not.
People will say "oh when shit hits the fan I'm coming to your house haha".
I had someone tell me that. I told him he'd be welcome because he's fat enough to feed me for a month.
I had someone tell me that. I told him he'd be welcome because he's fat enough to feed me for a month.
You should have handed him a movie copy of "The Road" as you said that.
Moose-Knuckle
08-12-11, 02:48
People will say "oh when shit hits the fan I'm coming to your house haha". Sorry, no your not.
This will be a problem. People we know; co-workers, distant relatives, nosey neighbor, et al know about our life styles (at least to some degree) so when society goes tits up we are already targets.
I worked in an engineering firm back in '99. One day everyone was talking about "what if" the Y2K scare happened. The liberal homosexual in the office spoke up and said that he would just come to my house since I was the office “Burt Gummer”, everyone laughed until I told said co-worker that he would be the first person I shoot. The laughter subsided once they realized I was serious. ;)
The fortune 500 company I work for said liberal homosexual would pussy foot at full speed to Human Resourses and such threat of violence would be greeted with termination. Ahhhh political correctness.
Sorry, back to topic.
This will be a problem. People we know; co-workers, distant relatives, nosey neighbor, et al know about our life styles (at least to some degree) so when society goes tits up we are already targets.
I worked in an engineering firm back in '99. One day everyone was talking about "what if" the Y2K scare happened. The liberal homosexual in the office spoke up and said that he would just come to my house since I was the office “Burt Gummer”, everyone laughed until I told said co-worker that he would be the first person I shoot. The laughter subsided once they realized I was serious. ;)
This something I have not seen talked about yet. When people do show up at what point would you allow someone in. My point is unless you already have a group in your area to rely on, it would only be a matter of time before your are suppressed by seer numbers. In my case my wife is not good with a firearm, so I would more than likely be the only shooter. If we went to her folks house, they are not armed properly to provide a second shooter. My point is for some one like me it would almost seem like at some point. I would have to bring some one in feed them and arm them.
I also read a some where that it is harder for really small numbers of people (1-2) to survive because they can't simply do everything. I also have 2 young children who could not be left unattended.
Unfortunately my wife falls into the category of "I'll worry about prep once things get bad"
It causes me many lost brain cells and many holes in the wall about the size of my head. I just can't seem to get through, she thinks I'm crazy for trying to stockpile ammunition and the like.
I'm really slacking on food and water, I have a couple weeks worth of MREs but I know those won't last forever but I have the firearms covered, and working on a few more.
An unarmed, but physically fit "prepper" might look at some of the more rotund in the "survivalist" community and ask similar questions and heap similar ridicule as exists here.
I'm unsure as to what some folks think they are training/hording to survive. If they continue on their current path and society fails to live up to their EOTWAWKI romantic fantasy their body isn't likely to survive past 50.
Just a Jarhead
08-12-11, 09:23
An unarmed, but physically fit "prepper" might look at some of the more rotund in the "survivalist" community and ask similar questions and heap similar ridicule as exists here.
I'm unsure as to what some folks think they are training/hording to survive. If they continue on their current path and society fails to live up to their EOTWAWKI romantic fantasy their body isn't likely to survive past 50.
I couldn't agree more! It's just appalling to walk around and see how fat Americans are in general. Maybe fear of the future unknown is impetus for some to get fit. Still silly though Rob to be prepping and not have a modern viable means of self defense. Unless someone is a pacifist religiously or Amish it's just silly and beyond my realm of comprehension. "Prior proper planning" has a crack in it!
Prepping aside...I'm equally appalled at how many men do not own a gun to protect and defend their family. Totally irresponsible to me. And again beyond my comprehension. "Bump in the night first thing I do is grab my .45". Granted, in all fairness, I was raised that way. Along with hunting at age 12 and shooting early then the USMC. There was a time when there were laws that every man had to have a gun.
Unarmed Preppers... the grocery stores of SHTF.
Prepping is great, being armed is better, being able to defend your stuff thru passive means is best. I think there was a thread on this somewhere else on here, but I can't recall, but I've also started "prepping" the passive defense portion of my home. Sucks that we bought a house with so many damn windows.
I think it's great that this is being discussed, but only because it's very anonymous on the internetz. First thing I told my wife when we started prepping is "no one needs to know about this stuff, no one!" Keep that in mind when discussing it with "friends". You may be able to keep your mouth shut about their stuff, but that doesn't mean they can about yours.
I know of a few that think the Lord will save them and they don't think past that.........
I can add a few more to that list....
[Not to insult any of the religious folk here, as I'm not anti-religion myself, but this is something I do have constant personal experience with and has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine. And I'm about to rant again. Sorry guys.]
Sadly it seems to me the kind of stupidity that is commonly seen in the firearms scene tends to spill a double measure over into the religious sector.
Sure the Bible is full of all sorts of great stories about people who walked through fire and got bit by poisonous snakes and lived to tell about it. Unfortunately most religious folk (A) don't seem to realize that those are the EXCEPTION to the rules, not the norm, and (B) think that all the 'turn the other cheek/thou shalt not kill' stuff automatically renders null and void the many other instances where some really badass dudes kicked their enemies' asses. Actually forget the Bible- read some history about the Waldenses and the Vaudois (spelling?). End of discussion.
Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying God will not ever protect anyone- I just think it's more of a passive thing: if you're not meant to get into a situation, you won't. But if you do, you better be ready to deal with it.
When you're facing down a rabid horde of folk bent on killing you, stealing your livelihood, raping your women and eating your children, the only fire and brimstone raining down to smite them is going to be coming from the business end of whatever firearm you happen to be holding at the time, not from heaven.
Respect the gods, but don't rely solely on them- Myamoto Musashi (paraphrased)
Prepping is great, being armed is better, being able to defend your stuff thru passive means is best. I think there was a thread on this somewhere else on here, but I can't recall, but I've also started "prepping" the passive defense portion of my home. Sucks that we bought a house with so many damn windows.
I think it's great that this is being discussed, but only because it's very anonymous on the internetz. First thing I told my wife when we started prepping is "no one needs to know about this stuff, no one!" Keep that in mind when discussing it with "friends". You may be able to keep your mouth shut about their stuff, but that doesn't mean they can about yours.
Exactly.
(B) think that all the 'turn the other cheek/thou shalt not kill' stuff automatically renders null and void the many other instances where some really badass dudes kicked their enemies' asses. Actually forget the Bible- read some history about the Waldenses and the Vaudois (spelling?). End of discussion.
Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying God will not ever protect anyone- I just think it's more of a passive thing: if you're not meant to get into a situation, you won't. But if you do, you better be ready to deal with it.
When you're facing down a rabid horde of folk bent on killing you, stealing your livelihood, raping your women and eating your children, the only fire and brimstone raining down to smite them is going to be coming from the business end of whatever firearm you happen to be holding at the time, not from heaven.
Respect the gods, but don't rely solely on them- Myamoto Musashi (paraphrased)
I've dealt with the type. Here's what you say back to them since they're following the Bible to a "T" and will likely not take any other reference to heart....
Romans 12:18 - If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Well if you're trying to harm me or my family, it's not possible for me to be peaceful with you. If that's the case, you better be ready for what you're about to get, because I'm not going to roll over & let you harm me or my family.
Belmont31R
08-12-11, 15:04
An unarmed, but physically fit "prepper" might look at some of the more rotund in the "survivalist" community and ask similar questions and heap similar ridicule as exists here.
I'm unsure as to what some folks think they are training/hording to survive. If they continue on their current path and society fails to live up to their EOTWAWKI romantic fantasy their body isn't likely to survive past 50.
Having supplies is not "hoarding". I would think someone who lives in FL would be more open to having things on hand considering the numerous devastating hurricanes that have occurred just in the last 30 years.
Most people I know are not planning for 'the end of the world'. Just natural disasters (loss of power, water, food, bug out plans, looting) and human caused ones like rioting, economic issues, ect. All of these things have happened right here in the USA.
I don't know anyone who has a fantasy about any of it. I'd rather you suppose we should go live in squalor at some sports park waiting for a bus to take us somewhere after something happens? Or go beg for food at a distribution point (provided there is one)? Everyone I know has families, regular jobs, live in nice houses and enjoy life. We have get together and have fun BBQ'ing, letting the kids play, ect. None of us are obese. People I know grow gardens because it gives them something to do, gets their hands dirty, they actually make something for themselves instead of buying everything at the store, and if needed they would have a source of (some) food of their own.
Just a Jarhead
08-12-11, 15:08
Belmont,
Maybe I musnderstood Rob_S but I don't think he was bashing the idea of prepping at all but rather how some are very overweight and all this prepping they're still probably not going to live to be 50 because of their unhealty lifestyle.
Not sure there are statistics or where he derived his figures from but Given that Americans in general are so overweight & unhealthy has to be a fair share of preppers are too.
Having supplies is not "hoarding". I would think someone who lives in FL would be more open to having things on hand considering the numerous devastating hurricanes that have occurred just in the last 30 years.
Most people I know are not planning for 'the end of the world'. Just natural disasters (loss of power, water, food, bug out plans, looting) and human caused ones like rioting, economic issues, ect. All of these things have happened right here in the USA.
I don't know anyone who has a fantasy about any of it. I'd rather you suppose we should go live in squalor at some sports park waiting for a bus to take us somewhere after something happens? Or go beg for food at a distribution point (provided there is one)? Everyone I know has families, regular jobs, live in nice houses and enjoy life. We have get together and have fun BBQ'ing, letting the kids play, ect. None of us are obese. People I know grow gardens because it gives them something to do, gets their hands dirty, they actually make something for themselves instead of buying everything at the store, and if needed they would have a source of (some) food of their own.
Then maybe what I wrote doesn't apply to you? ;)
But if you haven't seen the fatbody, BDU-wearing, "I have more ammo than I can carry", EOTWAWKI, currently-working-deadend-job-hoping-for-social-restructuring-post-event survivalist types then I'm happy for you. But they are certainly out there.
Priorities. If one isn't prepared to survive society as it exists today, there is little likelihood that having a gun is going to prepare them to survive post-disaster.
and you're right, living in Florida I've seen firsthand how outlandish people get about some of these things, and how one guy will sit and eat an MRE because he's in "survival mode" while I enjoy my steak and my beer.
Don't confuse a distaste of the fantasyland survivalism for not being prepared myself.
Belmont,
Maybe I musnderstood Rob_S but I don't think he was bashing the idea of prepping at all but rather how some are very overweight and all this prepping they're still probably not going to live to be 50 because of their unhealty lifestyle.
Not sure there are statistics or where he derived his figures from but Given that Americans in general are so overweight & unhealthy has to be a fair share of preppers are too.
Exactly right. But he can't read past the screen-name so I didn't expect him to really make an effort to understand.
Belmont31R
08-12-11, 15:27
Exactly right. But he can't read past the screen-name so I didn't expect him to really make an effort to understand.
I'm unsure as to what some folks think they are training/hording to survive.
This is mostly what I responding to. But Im not the one who couldnt see past the name. Im not sure why you took what I said the way you did but whatever....
I doubt many of the overweight BDU with bloused crowd make any serious effort to prepare themselves and for them it is a fantasy they live in. I do wear BDU's a few days a week because they are comfortable, utilitarian, and cheap. If I tear one its not a big deal. Im not really into paying $50+ for a set of pants to go get dirty in and are less comfortable. But Id rather that overweight fantasy guy do what he does than be a welfare leech criminal.
Good for you if you can go 2 weeks without power, and still be able to drink beer and eat steak.
Priorities. If one isn't prepared to survive society as it exists today, there is little likelihood that having a gun is going to prepare them to survive post-disaster.
This may be one of the best things said to date about this mindset.
Just a Jarhead
08-12-11, 15:41
their EOTWAWKI romantic fantasy .
This part was unnecessary! Having reread your post I can understand how some of it could piss people off. I was reading on the fly & I actually missed this the first time I read your post. 90% of the time it's not what somebody says, but how they say it that causes problems. Had you just left the quoted part above out Belmont probably would not have responded as he did. It sure looks like this was grenade lobbing Rob. This part alone makes it look like you came into the room looking for a fight. Perception is reality!
We're here trying to have serious discussions. I'm sure there are some out there somewhere that romantacize about EOTWAWKI and can't wait to pick up a gun and shootz dem sum Zombies. But I've not encountered anyone like that here yet. Most of us hope we die with a garage full of unused survivalist supplies.
Our military is war rooming all these scenarios out. That's not even debatable! Most/many of us in these discussions either have military or LE backgrounds. "Prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance" is part of our psyche. And that's a good thing..not a bad thing! If it's not for you that's fine, just move along and let us have our discussions without anymore grenade lobbing if that was the intent. Thank you very much!
Moose-Knuckle
08-12-11, 16:41
Anyone who has the foresight to prepare for the unforeseen sure has hell better be dialed in to the fact that physical fitness is just as an important key to one’s survival has having enough ammunition, clean drinking water, et al. During Katrina the vast amounts of deaths were due to morbidly obese people expiring because the air conditioner went off with the power. And or because they ran out of insulin due to their diabetes (mostly, not all) caused by their food stamp induced diet of junk food and sitting on their oxygen thieving asses in front of the TV all day.
Physcial fitness, stamina, and the like are just another tool in the kit for ones survival. They aren't much on their own but with out them you won't go very far.
Very true moose-knuckle. My old man always said a man should be able to lift at least his own body weight. If there's a fire and you can't carry your loved ones because your out of shape your going to feel like a shit head. Now if said loved ones weigh 300 pounds then hey, what can I say.
Physical fitness is just so important in every aspect of life.
Amen on the need fitness as a prepper.
As I walk the stores and parking lots on the weekend I see so many obese people, even young kids, and think "How would they ever survive any kind of emergency?"
As Moose mentioned the weight brings many health issues. And they struggle enough with their own weight they will not be able to assist anyone else. So many people are so dependent on traveling by car for even short distances, and having everything they need on a store shelf. Many will not be able to do the physical work it takes to evacuate their locale, make repairs to their homes, walk to church/store/office.
A fit person has fewer health issues such as diabetes, heart, clots, etc. They can do hours of productive manual labor every day, operate in daily life without air conditioning if need be, move around on foot or bicycle as needed, and generally be alert and able to respond at any time. An obese person can't do much beyond a few minutes at a time, need to rest often and long and often just don't have the initiative to get up and do something useful. I know a few guys younger than me that are much heavier and can't seem to get motivated to DO anything beyond their job and the TV or gamer. Most fit guys I know are ACTIVE throughout the week.
Who do you want to be when TSHTF? Tired and heavy "Let's take a break I can't hardly see." Or trim and fast, "How much can I get done today?"
The Lord helps those who help themselves.
And a lot of people are going to be helping themselves to what they have stockpiled. I have one friends who is afraid of guns. Can't stand the sight of them and is always scared during the 4th too hates loud noises. But she is stockpiling goods and has this mentality that the lord will save her. I keep teller her she needs to get something to protect her stuff when it all goes bad. Her answer to that is I have you as a friend why should I go buy a gun.lol I just laugh and change the subject. I don't have the heart to tell her I wont be around when it goes to hell around here.
An unarmed, but physically fit "prepper" might look at some of the more rotund in the "survivalist" community and ask similar questions and heap similar ridicule as exists here.
I'm unsure as to what some folks think they are training/hording to survive. If they continue on their current path and society fails to live up to their EOTWAWKI romantic fantasy their body isn't likely to survive past 50.
I agree, and I think I understand what you were trying to say.
For example, I just watched the Nat. Geo. special "doomsday preppers". I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly at least one family would have a problem in this area, especially if they intend to do any 'bugging out'.
I don't mean to be another dogpiler, but what is anyone here training for? Seeing as how this is the first thing suggested to every new shooter, I don't see a difference. I seriously doubt anyone here has any romantic notions about what an EOTWAWKI situation would be like, or this site is not as serious as it makes itself out to be.
If you were making a general statement based on certain stereotypes ("mall ninjas", "window lickers", etc.), who just want to stock as much firepower as they can to 'shootz dem zombies' with complete disregard to any thing else, than my apologies for misunderstanding.
I've dealt with the type. Here's what you say back to them since they're following the Bible to a "T" and will likely not take any other reference to heart....
Romans 12:18 - If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Well if you're trying to harm me or my family, it's not possible for me to be peaceful with you. If that's the case, you better be ready for what you're about to get, because I'm not going to roll over & let you harm me or my family.
I think the story of the Amish farmer sums that up nicely:
An Amish farmer lived in a community where there had been numerous burglaries.
Unworried, he and his wife went off to bed, but were awakened in the middle of the night by somebody rummaging around downstairs.
The farmer grabbed his shotgun and went to investigate.
Upon confronting a rather shocked burglar, the farmer said "Friend, I mean you no harm. But you're standing where I'm about to shoot."
:cool:
The helpless ones will be the ones helping themselves to others people shit. Generations of people ingrained with the idea of assistance this and assistance that, Sec. 8 housing, food stamps, welfare and now free cell phones. I heard looters in London say they were taking back their taxes when asked why they were doing what they were. These people don't understand the value of earning anything. They're just born entitled. Why work for mine when I can let you work for your and then just take it.
Hence.... Have fun unarmed preppers.
Not to mention even if you aren't comfortable with using a firearm in a deffensive situation it can still be used for hunting game. Maybe fishing poles are bad too. Idk.
Kurt Saxon (who invented the term "Survivialism") thought most 'survivialists' spent too much time and money on expensive and exotic guns. If you have a 'gun habit' (like most of us do) that is fine, but don't confuse this with survivialism. For survival, most of your money should go to basics like food, water, shelter, medicine ect.
Saxon contends for the most part, all you need is a bolt action 30-06, a 12ga pump, and .38. If you need more firepower than that he recommends using one of his various 'goodies' from the PMJB.
The fact of the matter is, most people, even desperate people, are not mentally prepared to fight for their life. Actual EOTWAWKI will require a certain mindset and situational ethics that most people simply do not have. Most battles are lost when one side decides it can no longer sustain any more casualties.
Me personally, and I think I'll be backed up here, a quality semi auto clip fed is where its at. But with that said.... Survivalism is a state of mind. How bad do you want it !!!
I know some people that have stuff stockpiled for an emergency but they are thinking of smaller events. I want to say all of them have at least a gun though. If anything it is a hunting rifle/shotgun. Most that are prepared have a few guns though.
I know one person distantly in New Orleans who bought a 4" fixed sighted .38 revolver to be prepared for the next Katrina.
To someone who doesn't know a lot about guns a .38 revolver was the gun carried by cops forever, so it should be enough. Now, I think most of us here would want something a lot more capable than that, but something that was standard Police issue from a few decades ago certainly puts them ahead of being unarmed.
A lot of people have a very limited or utilitarian view of firearms and might be able to recognize the difference between an AR and an AK and an Uzi.
They certainly would not know the difference between one brand of AR and another--just look at many of the new people who come to this site.
Some people think they get a basic gun, take it shooting a few times and they are good to go.
If you look at the NRA armed citizen reports you will see accounts of people with little or no training survive and prevail using firearms.
This is a blessing as well as a curse. On one hand it is affirming to see regular folks successfully defending themselves. On the other hand it doesn't negate the need for training, nor does it mean that better skills or equipment should be pursued if possible. Certainly there is a difference between sucessfully defending yourself against a home breaker or two and surviving against the more serious threats that you might encounter in a Post Katrina type environment.
Then there is the economics. If someone is trying to stock supplies for some type of prolonged disruption they might not have enough money to afford more expensive guns.
I imagine it can differ whether they get into preparing as an extension of their interest in firearms or get into firearms as an extension of prepping.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-11, 02:30
Kurt Saxon (who invented the term "Survivialism") thought most 'survivialists' spent too much time and money on expensive and exotic guns. If you have a 'gun habit' (like most of us do) that is fine, but don't confuse this with survivialism. For survival, most of your money should go to basics like food, water, shelter, medicine ect.
Saxon contends for the most part, all you need is a bolt action 30-06, a 12ga pump, and .38. If you need more firepower than that he recommends using one of his various 'goodies' from the PMJB.
The fact of the matter is, most people, even desperate people, are not mentally prepared to fight for their life. Actual EOTWAWKI will require a certain mindset and situational ethics that most people simply do not have. Most battles are lost when one side decides it can no longer sustain any more casualties.
Good points all around sir. Mel Tappon said something very similar to Mr. Saxon in his book Survival Guns first published in 1979. Though the information is now dated the principle is sound.
Most gun owners get bent around the axle and fixate on buying duplicate guns and gun accessories. Instead they would be best served if they were to purchase something basic (Colt 6920 for example) and spend the money that would go for tacticool accessories on ammo and range sessions.
Though the information is now dated the principle is sound....
.... they would be best served if they were to purchase something basic (Colt 6920 for example) and spend the money that would go for tacticool accessories on ammo and range sessions.
Exactly. Whenever I travel around the country I look for what ammo is commonly available most stores. I think the 30-06 is becoming somewhat dated. It seems that mostly only older die-hard Fudds buy it anymore. You will have a much easier time finding 7.62x39 and 5.56/.223. I think you will find no problem finding 12ga just about anywhere that sells ammo. Most govt agencies use some combination of M4's and 12ga shotguns.
Of course, the key is to learn how to use your basic tools well.
I think all prepping should be done in layers: Foundation basics, more serious supplemental, and then nice to haves. For food this would be like foundation of canned goods since they are cheap and easy to use, followed by bulk foods in buckets, and then MREs for nice to have emergencies and bug out.
For firearms this approach might be something low cost to start with like a revolver, shotgun and lever action. The "bulk supplemental" might be an M4 and pistol with lots more ammo, and the nice to have would be a .308 with good scope. Same principle could be applied to tools.
So there isn't one right answer. It depends on where you are on your total preparations. Doesn't make much sense purely for survivalism to spend $1,000 on a carbine, $500 for an optic, and $400 on ammo if you have only spent $200 for two weeks supply of food and not much in way of hand tools for repairs and gardening.
Of course if shooting is also a hobby then you have to consider you will be spending some on firearms and ammo just for the hobby aspect.
I opened my father's eyes up on this subject years ago. He insisted that all he needed was the Mini-30 and a five round magazine.
After testing him to see how fast he could load and empty that magazine at a target at 100 meters and how accurate he was, I showed him the same test with my AR-15 (at the time I'd saved for the rifle myself, he insisted it was excessive and unnecessary as a weapon for defense). My 30 round magazine took me about two minutes, loading with stripper clips and shooting up that one hundred yard plate. Took him three minutes, and he also had a jam. And didn't connect with all five shots. Point proven. He bought an AR just like mine a week later.
The Mini-30 is relegated to a deer rifle.
I know a few(not many)who have pretty good stockpiles,but NO guns!I just don't get it....You guy's know anybody like this?Ever changed their minds???On another note,i know a few that refuse to prep.They have the "I don't want to be a target" mindset.Lost causes no doubt :(.
AKA, my back up supply's.:D
Most of the preppers that I know have a gun or maybe a couple of guns that are kind of half ass for WROL situations. Maybe they have a .38 Spl or a .22lr Marlin. Most have a box of ammo or maybe two if they really splurged.
Heck, most of the hunters that I know don't keep much ammo around. They might have a handful of buckshot or slugs or maybe a box or two of rifle ammo.
I consider these people to be my future customers if I need more supplies. I have a decent supply of ammo and even some extra firearms. I would be willing to trade ammo to SOME people depending on who they are and what they have.
I'll give you an example. My wife has debilitating migraines and if I wasn't expecting my ammo to come back at me I would trade bullets for bandaids if the other party was well stocked in other gear and not likely to end up looting me at a later date. On the other hand I would not trade arms or ammo to someone that basically has nothing as I would probably be receiving that ammo back when stomachs started rumbling. Friends and family would be taken care of if possible. Many of them are well stocked but poorly armed.
Growing up we were in the well stocked, marginally armed group. We had a few shotguns but no buckshot or slugs, just field loads. We had a .30-30 Win 94 and a couple of .308 and .30-06 rifles, but rarely more than one or two boxes of ammo for each and only one mag per bolt action rifle. The only handgun we had was a Ruger .22LR with a couple of boxes of ammo to share with the pump .22LR rifle.
On the other hand, my mother canned lots of food and we had bulk food for the kind of large family. And always a lot of venison and elk in the freezer, along with several salmon. We smoked a lot of meat as well. My father was more than capable of taking care of himself and family and we boys were raised to do likewise, but thinking back, if there had ever been widespread breakdown like we will face soon, we would have been SOL on the ammo and selection of firearms.
Nowadays I know a lot of gun owners with less than a week of food supplies and lots of farmers and such with a lot of food but few weapons, but I would not call them preppers so much as just well stocked farming families. Seems it is a minority of my friends and family that are both avid gun owners AND preppers. My brother got on the bandwagon recently and is going balls to the wall on all aspects.
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