Replacing all my handguns with one system - help me out. [Archive]

chapperjoe

08-10-11, 09:51

Me and the wife decided to standardize on a single handgun system so that we can share mags and get our muscle memory focused on one system and all the other good things that come with standardization.

To replace our M&P 45, Glock 36, Taurus PT145, Ruger SP101 and Ruger LCP, we'll need at least 2 full size and 2 compact (or one subcompact, one compact).

We don't want any external safeties or decockers
No DAO versions of SA/DA guns
No "quarter-cock" systems e.g. PX4 type C, SW 3953, etc
We do want one trigger pull for all shots.

Based on our needs, I've compiled the following list:

S&W M&P (available in full size and subcompact)
Walther P99 QA (available in full size and subcompact)
Springfield XD (available in full size and subcompact)
H&K LEM (available in full size, compact and subcompact)
Glock (available in full size compact and subcompact )

Price doesn't really matter, but if we go HK this can get expensive (P30, USPc, P2000sk) so they'd have to be really superior to the other choices to justify.

I'm more comfortable (mentally) with 45, but she prefers 9mm and I can live with that.

ETA: we're moving to Florida in under a month, so ban-legal mag capacities don't apply.

FChen17213

08-10-11, 09:54

Glock would get my vote. Gen3 models. M&P would prob. be second. HK LEM would be 3rd but would get very expensive and harder to get spare parts for.

You could get Glock 19s, 26s, and 17s.

glen

08-10-11, 10:04

Which do you both shoot better with, the M&P or the Glock?

I would go Glock personally.

K Town

08-10-11, 10:06

I have always been a fan of how the 17, 19, and 26 can share magazines without any issue and not to mention Glocks are pretty damn fine pistols if you ask me ;).

Oh, and the "Happy Sticks" add +30 mag dump fun :ph34r:.

dirvo85

08-10-11, 10:13

The biggest thing the M&P's have going for it are the interchangeable back straps and the ergonomics. The Glocks could work in gen 4's but they've been a little questionable. My vote goes to the M&P.

jmoore

08-10-11, 10:14

SteveL

08-10-11, 10:17

chapperjoe

08-10-11, 10:27

in terms of comfort and fit, they all fit our hands ok.

in terms of shootability, It's gonna be hard to get my hands on the HK's and the Walther's to shoot prior to purchase.

chapperjoe

08-10-11, 10:28

Also, the only reason I can consider glock is due to the gen4 mag release. I never could 'rock a glock' (well, non 36) before that.

Nephrology

08-10-11, 10:31

A cheap-o RIA 1911 was my first handgun - after that, I went all glock. Still have the RIA- it's a fun plinker and is great with a .22 kit - but otherwise I have a Glock 26, 17, and 19.

Fantastic combo. The G26 is my dedicated carry pistol, with the 19 pulling that duty during most of the winter months (~60% of the year) and the 17 is my dedicated competition pistol (IDPA and IPSC mostly). The nice thing is, if one were to go down/get taken into custody, I could easily carry any 1 of them (though, the 17 might be a stretch in summer time!) and similarly I would be happy shooting an IDPA match with any of them as well.

My next plan is to get a 34 and a second Glock 19. Not sure which to get first!

masakari

08-10-11, 10:36

My vote would be for the XD9/XDM9 series. They have fullsize and compact models, great controls, and a dream to carry. The XDM is also backwards compatible with XD mags. The XDM has swappable backstraps, but I honestly prefer the regular XD for the cost and smooth sides of the grips for carry.
second choice would be the Glock17/19/26.
Me personally... im a 45 guy all the way.

okie john

08-10-11, 10:59

Start with a pair of G19s. You may not need anything else.

Okie John

Norseman

08-10-11, 11:30

I chose to do the about 2 yrs. ago also. Sold off 2 of my high end 1911's and was able to get 2 G17's, 1 G19, 1 G26, 16 extra G17 mags and a little over 2k in ammo.

I voted for the Glock, but the M&P would be a excellent choice also if the ergo's fit you and the wife better.

Magsz

08-10-11, 11:41

Joe,

Where in Florida are you moving?

Realistically, i would go with either the Glock or the M&P as those two guns come in at the best price point for swapping out an entire line up of handguns.

With the extra savings over say going all HK, you can buy a TON of ammo and easily train and maintain proficiency via a class or by simply shooting...a lot.

What this really boils down to is what you feel compelled to shoot, which system fascinates you the most, which system you can readily find parts for (bit of a moot issue) and which system will allow you the most flexibility for training, competition concealed carry etc.

Glock, M&P, its six in one hand, half a dozen in the other. They're both marvelous guns and at the end of the day, its the indian, not the arrow.

Avoid the XD's. I dont care how good they feel, how awesome they shoot, or the possibility that they might spew unicorns from the end of the muzzle on Tuesdays.

The simple fact is that you cannot rack the slide one handed if the beavertail grip safety is not depressed. This is a DEAL BREAKER for any defensive handgun.

chapperjoe

08-10-11, 11:49

Mauser KAR98K

08-10-11, 11:50

I'd go with the M&P. Better egos, and are priced very reasonable.

F-Trooper05

08-10-11, 13:27

Avoid the XD's. I dont care how good they feel, how awesome they shoot, or the possibility that they might spew unicorns from the end of the muzzle on Tuesdays.

Good advice here.

Backstop

08-10-11, 13:29

I've adhered to the "standardize on a single handgun system" for many years.

Not only do I keep just one system (platform), I only keep one size of that system.

Currently it's G19s.

So my vote is for Glock - Vote #54.

RepeatDefender

08-10-11, 13:35

The four handguns I own that I shoot the most are all M&P's. That's my vote.

Omega Man

08-10-11, 13:35

I voted for Glock. Most Gen3 Glocks are good to go, right from the box. 2nd choice would be M&P's. Although most folks spend extra on Apex parts, to make the M&P's more user friendly.

Aaron_B

08-10-11, 13:59

I would go with glock as well. The ability to use the mags in multiple guns makes life easier to me. Plus the simplicity of working on glocks gives it a bonus also.

chapperjoe

08-10-11, 14:01

gen3's not gonna work for me.

can't hit the mag release with my girly thumbs.

CQC.45

08-10-11, 14:16

gen3's not gonna work for me.

can't hit the mag release with my girly thumbs.

Thats why the Vickers Extended mag release exists (very cheap part). Trust me, go Gen 3 G19 and call it a day. You will get there eventually so you might as well avoid my mistake in wasting alot of money and just do it now :cool:

If you claim price isnt an issue, get a grip reduction on the Glock and have the best of both worlds (Glock reliability/simplicity with great ergos).

ryan

08-10-11, 14:26

.....

Alex F

08-10-11, 14:28

Glock Gen2 in good shape (used), or Glock Gen3 (new), in that order.

If you were against the Glock for some reason, I'd go with the S&W.

That's merely my unscientific opinion based on using both systems.

The HK is a nice platform but as you've said, the price is higher for what you get.

El Cid

08-10-11, 14:35

Voted M&P. If it were me, mine would be the M&P9L over the "regular" full size. And all of them would have 10-8 rear sights.

GTF425

08-10-11, 14:41

Glock.

Tango Charlie145

08-10-11, 15:27

I have carried a handgun for close to 25 years, and much like most people here have gone through everything from the S&W 66, 36 Gen 3 S&W, Beretta, Sig and 1911 of some size or another. As we get older, we see how monoghamy in handgun carry systems is the way to go and I, again like others here, have decided on the Glock platform. With all the "Gen this doesn't do that" asisde, it is the simplest to shoot, maintain, and become very proficient with in my opinion. I recently had one of my favorite 19's worked on by Cold Bore Customs and I must say that Lanes work is fantastic. The grip reduction makes it much easier to reach the Vickers mag release, and it is more pointable FOR ME-I have small hands. It is your decision what is best for you, again this has already been said.
Good luck.
TC

jmreagan

08-10-11, 15:43

I would go with glock as well. The ability to use the mags in multiple guns makes life easier to me. Plus the simplicity of working on glocks gives it a bonus also.

All of that translates to the M&P's too.

OP, flip a coin between M&P and Glock. I sold all my Glocks for M&P's a year ago and only have M&P's and 1911's now. I like the M&P's much better for the ergos and point-ability of the weapon but that is somewhat subjective. With the Apex parts the triggers become the best of the polymer pistols but you don't have to get the Apex parts. They M&P's are nice and very usable out of the box. The only must I feel is to put tritium sights on. It's a good idea to standardize from a logistic and training standpoint.

Cazwell

08-10-11, 16:20

I did this a year or so ago. Started a thread on it and, as usual, received a lot of help from the members.

I shot the XD, M&P, G19/17/26, as well as the HK USP, Walther, Sig/DAK etc.

I liked various things about each, however my lack of experience had me cut the ones I didn't shoot well, and just look at cost, availability, parts etc.

That pushed me towards the Glock and the M&P. I liked shooting the Glock and the M&P, but I lean towards US companies and companies with reps for good customer service. S&W had both.

I ended up deciding I would pick up the first M&P 9c that came up, but that I would grab a G19 if that came up first. Found a good price on a 9c and got it.

I really really like it. I now have the 9c's and 9 FS and shopping and training is easier (mags, ammo holsters) since consolidating. I have had no problems, and wife really likes the M&P as well... the ergos work much better for her than the Glock, especially with the back straps.

We have broadened the "consolidation" a little to include a Kahr pm9/p9, wife carries the pm9 in the summer.

Mark71

08-10-11, 16:32

My personal choice would be the Glock platform. 9mm Glocks have become my go to handguns. Another plus to going with Glocks with the ability to purchase and use .22 conversion kits. I use the Advantage Arms .22 conversion kits and they work and function flawlessly while letting me shoot/practice for cheap.

RogerinTPA

08-10-11, 16:40

I did the exact same thing several months ago. I ended up going with the M&P9 and M&P9c because I like the ergos better than with Glock. You can't go wrong with either one, and these are the only two I would consider.

I did the same thing several years ago with the M&P line: 45, 40, 9 and 9c. Agreed with the ergos on the M&P. Glocks are good to go, just not for me. I shoot it well, but it sits and feels weird in my hand.

DocGKR

08-10-11, 16:55

I would go with pre-2010 3rd gen 9mm Glocks or M&P9's. Based on your comments about the gen 3 Glocks, it sounds like you will be best served by the M&P. Either work out of the box, but I tend to modify both to work better for me:

For M&P:
-- Apex Duty Kit
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- If I have to use iron sights I don't mind the stock ones, although these days I now prefer an RMR02 with suppressor height BIS.

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/142745811358.jpg

For 3rd gen 9 mm Glocks:
-- Better sights: For irons usually Trijicon HD, Warren, or Ameriglo 3-dot with bright green front and dim yellow back, although recently I've been using a RMR02 with suppressor height BIS.
-- Vickers mag catch
-- Vickers slide release
-- Scherer "slug" butt plug
-- Stipple frame
-- Glock "-" connector
-- Glock smooth trigger if not OEM installed (typically needs replacement on G19's)
-- Maritime spring cups if any use around water is anticipated
-- Grip Force Adapters, especially on G17's.

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7360&filename=RMR%20Glocks.jpg

MRevolutionIX

08-10-11, 17:24

I vote M&P series. Great ergonomics! A gun that feels good in the hand promotes confidence in one's ability.

loganp0916

08-10-11, 18:02

What do you guys mean by "point-ability"?

loganp0916

08-10-11, 18:04

What do you guys mean "point-ability"?

okie john

08-10-11, 18:36

What do you guys mean "point-ability"?

It's when you bring the gun up and the sights are already pretty much aligned on the target without you having to crank your hand/wrist/arm around much. It helps you hit at speed, but it's a little different for everyone.

Okie John

MountainRaven

08-10-11, 19:33

Personally, I prefer Glocks and the H&K P30.

I don't care for the recent issues the Glock has had and the P30 doesn't exactly have a subcompact (following the Glock size naming conventions) version. So obviously, I'm a bad person to ask.

The XDM is also backwards compatible with XD mags.

I'm pretty sure that's not true for the XDm in 9mm and .40. Last time I checked, the XD magazines were too short to engage the XDm's magazine catch and they're much thinner... which makes me think that they probably won't feed reliably, even if you're able to get them to seat.

The XDm and XD in .45 Auto use identical magazines.

akfortynine

08-10-11, 19:40

My vote went to glock. I can't claim much experience on the M&P though so take it for what it's worth. As for the generation, I have a gen 4 glock 22 and 27. Thus far I have had absolutely no extraction problems. That being said, the issue has been well documented and is something to consider. It does appear that the later gen 3 guns are more prone to the malfunction, apparently due to the fact that they use some gen 4 parts.

dookie1481

08-10-11, 19:55

gen3's not gonna work for me.

can't hit the mag release with my girly thumbs.

I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if you have smaller thumbs than me (size 7.5-8 shoe), and even I can manage with the Vickers/Tango Down mag release. It's awesome.

Lost River

08-10-11, 20:01

Though I am currently issued an M&P, I have been issued Glocks and owned and competed with Glocks for far longer and shoot them better. I without a doubt, would choose Glocks every time.

I am very partial to G19s.

But then again, it is about what you and your bride like. If you do not have a big preference, see if she does.

RWBlue

08-10-11, 20:06

I voted Glock, but......

The G26 is not small enough and I have yet to find a pocket 9mm with the glock trigger feel.

The only other option IMHO are revolvers.

Beat Trash

08-10-11, 20:22

I'd take the wife to a range and rent like a like sized Glock and M&P. Have both of you shoot each and compare.

I'd personally swing towards the M&P's. But then, I'm still a fan of the Gen3 Glock 19's.

Lost River

08-10-11, 20:35

Beat trash,

I too very much prefer the Gen 3 G19s. I use the black one and keep the 2 OD ones as NIB spares.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/3rdGenG19s001.jpg

fixit69

08-10-11, 20:38

While not a huge fan of them, I have to give the edge in overall versatility to the glock. Mags, parts, ammo, etc...all available almost everywhere. While not my first choice, it would be hard to do better for a do it all weapon system.

samuse

08-10-11, 21:15

Preliator

08-10-11, 22:40

I owned a Sig P229 Elite (.40), M&P40, Glock 22 and 23, XDm .40, Ruger Super Redhawk .44 mag, and a S&W MP340.....

Work says Glock, so I sold the XDm, Sig and M&P40 - have the .44 up for sale, and am keeping the 340 as a BUG. Using the proceeds from the sale to get a new Aimpoint Comp M4s for my 6920 and a Glock 27.

THAT BEING SAID:
I say go with the M&P... every experience I have had with em showed em to be rock solid guns that eat everything, ergonomically superior to the glock and american made.

Of course that is just my opinion, and what I would do.

Cheers,
Preliator.

opmike

08-11-11, 03:28

I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if you have smaller thumbs than me (size 7.5-8 shoe), and even I can manage with the Vickers/Tango Down mag release. It's awesome.

He just needs to actually try one. If a Vickers catch will give you a hard time, any thumb actuated magazine catch will give you a hard time.

I'll say Glock, for no other reason than that is my preference. This thread is essentially the same as all the other "Which one of these guns should I buy" threads, and assuming one is working with quality options, one should get trigger time on each model under consideration, and pick the one that they like shooting the best.

I'm more satisfied with how I perform when shooting the Glock than I was with my M&P; there wasn't an Internet debate on the planet that would have given me this knowledge.

Without even looking at the poll results, I'm guessing it is Glock in the lead followed by the M&P and then HK? These types of polls are largely popularity contests, and you'd gain more from trying them for yourself.

rob_s

08-11-11, 04:51

I made the same choice several years ago when my fiance wanted to try shooting and all I had at the time was 1911s (and moderately expensive ones at that). I bought her a Glock 19, and then changed out all my own guns to Glocks.

One thing I haven't seen posted here,and something that swayed me at the time, was that the Glock is the more established platform. Probably the most established of your list, maybe even the most established all-around. What this means is more availability on holsters, sights, triggers, magazines, spare parts etc. but also the availability of .22 conversion slides as well as (at the time anyway) airsoft replicas for FOF or home "training". Unfortunately now all the airsofts have dried up but the rimfire factor still matters to me.

Totally subjective, and perhaps due to familiarity, but I like the size options of the Glock better than any of the others too. Having 4 sizes available in the 9mm depending on what you want to do with the gun is good IMO, and there are times when the G26 is the only thing I can stash/conceal and none of the others offer that same size option.

Finally something that weighed in on my choosing back then, the Kahr. I wasn't entirely sure that the fiance was going to do OK with the Glock (we eventually added an Extreme reduction from Boresight Solutions to her G19) and I liked the idea that for the most part the Kahr is very similar in function to the Glock line in terms of ergonomics, just smaller. Had she proven unable to deal with the grip size of the Glock my next stop was a Kahr, and I liked the idea that if she was familiar with the Kahr but wound up with one of my Glocks in her hand she would know how to operate it and it would seem familiar, just bigger.

longball

08-11-11, 07:55

One thing I haven't seen posted here,and something that swayed me at the time, was that the Glock is the more established platform. Probably the most established of your list, maybe even the most established all-around. What this means is more availability on holsters, sights, triggers, magazines, spare parts etc. but also the availability of .22 conversion slides as well as (at the time anyway) airsoft replicas for FOF or home "training". Unfortunately now all the airsofts have dried up but the rimfire factor still matters to me.

I had to think about it for a long time before voting but I eventually settled on the Glock line. I have and shoot both a Glock and M&P regularly and although I usually shoot the M&P better I would still choose the Glock if I was only going to have one handgun. Mainly for the reasons I bolded in rob_s' post above.

The_War_Wagon

08-11-11, 08:03

I did the same thing several years ago - I went with 1911's. :cool:

goodoleboy

08-11-11, 08:18

I voted Glock. They are definately the best bang for the buck, IMHO. If you could only have one pistol out of all those you listed, I would choose the Glock 19. You can conceal it better than the 17, and still get all your fingers on it. I am still skeptical about the Gen 4 guns, although recent range reports on this forum are starting to demonstrate that they are getting better. I would go with a Gen 3 and buy what would suit your needs best. I would also see if I could handle a RTF2 in the 17 and see how you like it. I've got a 22 RTF2 and that grip is awesome on the range for me because my hands sweat a lot. The big draw-back for the RTF2 is I would be scared to try and conceal carry with it. It would probably rub you raw (if it were carried in a paddle holster under a shirt) and pick out your clothes. Despite that, I love the way that gun feels.

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 08:30

the gen4 catch reaches further back, I tried it and it was a real light bulb moment, as in "finally I can get into glocks!"

I haven't tried the vickers mag catch yet, but doesn't it just come out more? if my issue is thumb reach, how will an extended vickers catch help? I can't get to that distance....

rob_s

08-11-11, 08:33

You know you can rotate the pistol in your hand when you reload, right? I'm 6'1 and even with the Vickers catch I still do this with the Glocks, and actually every pistol I can ever recall firing.

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 08:43

I hear you.
Most of the time I do that.
.....but why handicap myself into ONLY doing that from the get-go?

viperashes

08-11-11, 09:54

..well, fundamentally:)

While I'm not getting rid of the revolvers, 1911s or M&P - I have made the conscious decision that all training and use (whatever is possible in IL:) will be Glock-based. Specifically - a Glock 17 (again, CC not in my future). And as times continue to change, the cheaper ammo costs (read - more practice) doesn't hurt at all!

cheers!

john

You might be surprised. Wisconsin just passed SHALL ISSUE CCW laws. Illinois barely missed it, by 6 votes. Being that Illinois is the last State that doesn't have ANY type of carry laws, it's only a short matter of time before they come on board. Nobody likes getting left out in the rain, and you Illinoisans should be invited to the cool kids club soon if my guess is right.

Also, on topic, Glock. I'm not a huge fan-boy of any particular brand or style of pistol, but if I had to choose one to go to in place of all other platforms, I would go with Gen 3 Glocks for all the reasons mentioned previously. They're point and click interface and fairly easy to get comfortable with.

Guns-up.50

08-11-11, 10:01

Im in a similar sit, my M&P which i love is on its way out the door. i shoot glocks better and i find them to be more comfortable 17 and 19s

eternal24k

08-11-11, 10:46

it's a nobrainer IMO, Glock.
Parts availability (both OEM and aftermarket), tons of holsters and accessories, reliability.

Vegas

08-11-11, 11:36

I voted Glock based on reliability and aftermarket support.

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 11:40

the gen 4 issues affect all glocks, or just the 19?

Nephrology

08-11-11, 13:05

the gen 4 issues affect all glocks, or just the 19?

the 17 and 19, the 26 uses the same double-wound recoil spring as before so no change there.

I wouldn't lose sleep over buying a gen 4 but there is no reason to get them right now when gen3s are just fine and plentiful (and easier to fined used, and thus cheaper!)

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 14:17

what about the 23?

Wiggity

08-11-11, 14:22

OP I've been toying with the same idea and decided that im going with glocks.

DocGKR

08-11-11, 14:41

The gen 4 problems have been most pronounced with the 4th gen G17 and G19, but as OPD's issues have demonstrated, are also an issue with gen 4 G22's.

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 14:53

dookie1481

08-11-11, 15:27

I'm not going to lie, your posts and articles are the whole reason this 45-fanatic is even considering a 9mm, so I take what you say with alot of weight.
So my question to you is: should the gen4 issues be a consideration in not choosing them vs the M&P?

I will say that I wanted to choose the Gen4 based on my hand size issues, but Doc's posts, along with the posts of other experienced members highlighting the issues with the platform caused me to go with an older Gen3.

Pistol Shooter

08-11-11, 15:30

Go with HK if you can. Good luck. :)

jtc556

08-11-11, 15:34

I'll echo what the others have said. I sold a few odds and ends and went with 17s and 19s. They fit my hands very well and I can shoot them pretty good if I do say so myself.

KhanRad

08-11-11, 16:03

Go with HK if you can. Good luck. :)

+1

One thing you can say about H&K handguns is that they are consistantly top of the line.......decade after decade. Other manufacturers have bad years, or even bad decades where the quality of the firearm is questionable at best. Glock, S&W, Sig Sauer,......etc. have all suffered a period or multiple periods where they have put out a product that was defective in some fashion. You will simply not find another mass production firearms manufacturer that can equal H&K's long record of quality.

I've been using Sigs for a number of years in Federal service, but if I were to transition to only one brand of firearm, it would be H&K.

Vorpal_weapon

08-11-11, 16:45

I voted Glock because it’s the best 80/20 rule option for most people. I carry Glocks everyday at work – a G23 and G35s. Is Glock my “favorite handgun?” – Clearly, No. I choose to carry Gs on the job because IMO they give me the best combination of fast handling/pointability, reliability, acceptable accuracy and magazine capacity – they are just the best tool I’ve found for that task.

Glock handguns are ubiquitous in American law enforcement – for instance, Glock 22 was the first handgun ever mandated for carry by the U.S. Marshal Service. Glock also tends to dominate many classes within the shooting sports as well. The reason for it is simple – Glocks are a proven system that offers a highly reliable and cost effective combination of technology and features not found in other products. As a rule, Glocks don’t need any significant customizing to be ready for service – you can simply take them out of the box and stick them in your holster – they’re generally GTG.

The popularity of the Glock has generated another point in its favor –accessories, custom parts, and spares are abundant and EASY to come by. In the decades following the apocalypse, people will be able to dig through the rubble and come up with parts for Glocks, AKs and ARs. I figure the Gen 4 debacle is something Glock will just have to work through/live over. I’m happy to stay with my Gen 3s.

dhunley1

08-11-11, 17:43

For me it would be between the M&P or the Glock. Personally I prefer the M&P.

MonteSmoke

08-11-11, 17:47

what about A fnp? seems to offer more then any other gun u have other then the HK but close IMO

Hogsgunwild

08-11-11, 18:22

I was back and forth, somewhat divided between Glocks and 1911s for about twenty years. I like them both but the 1911s took over and won out in recent years.

This year I have seen the light and the H&K disease has invaded my carry line-up. I'm ready to sell a bunch of my 1911s that I previously thought were keepers in order to fund my H&K invasion. I plan to keep my best 1911s but the H&Ks offer the accuracy and reliability (or better) of my best 1911s for a fraction of the price while adding higher capacity to the equation. What is not to love? Three, going on four H&Ks for me in about the same amount of months.

If you get a chance to try a H&K with a light LEM trigger, take it.
That trigger has spoiled me for all others.

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 20:55

what about A fnp? seems to offer more then any other gun u have other then the HK but close IMO

I know they're releasing a striker fired gun but
Do they make a compact striker fired variant?

chapperjoe

08-11-11, 21:28

A pair of hk's and some mags would cos me 2000$ easy before holsters! They'd have to be an order of magnitude better to go with. The more I price out our options, the more I realize why hk's are a minority on any popularity poll

I was back and forth, somewhat divided between Glocks and 1911s for about twenty years. I like them both but the 1911s took over and won out in recent years.

This year I have seen the light and the H&K disease has invaded my carry line-up. I'm ready to sell a bunch of my 1911s that I previously thought were keepers in order to fund my H&K invasion. I plan to keep my best 1911s but the H&Ks offer the accuracy and reliability (or better) of my best 1911s for a fraction of the price while adding higher capacity to the equation. What is not to love? Three, going on four H&Ks for me in about the same amount of months.

If you get a chance to try a H&K with a light LEM trigger, take it.
That trigger has spoiled me for all others.

cop1211

08-11-11, 21:43

1.HK
2.M&P
3.Glock

drsal

08-11-11, 21:52

Another vote for glocks....simple, reliable, and relatively inexpensive.

titsonritz

08-12-11, 00:51

Hogsgunwild

08-12-11, 05:15

A pair of hk's and some mags would cos me 2000$ easy before holsters! They'd have to be an order of magnitude better to go with. The more I price out our options, the more I realize why hk's are a minority on any popularity poll

After spending a small fortune on 1911s over the years, HKs seem
like such a value for what you get. Seems like "Buy One, Get One Free" to me.

After owning seven Glocks over twenty years, I appreciate the H&Ks even more. More sense of value in the money spent on my HKs.

I like Glocks. I like 1911s. I wish the "Magic Gun Fairy" would have put a HK in my hands twenty plus years ago and shown me a crystal ball looking at what I have come to realize about my shooting needs presently. I would have saved a fortune by sticking with a couple of high end 1911s from top gunsmiths and a bunch of H&Ks.

You don't believe in the "Magic Gun Fairy"? You should. It exists.
It's called the Internet. I wish I had it twenty-some years ago to learn from as I have in the last several years. My ability to find firearms and training and techniques that work for me (without wasting a ton of cash on trial and error) has grown exponentially and
the H&K was a direct result of a lot of reading and then a lot of gun rentals ( including M&Ps, more Glocks, etc., etc.).

The Glock is also a great value. I feel for my needs, the H&K is a value taken to the next level of quality. Not everyone will ever appreciate that or will they ever appreciate a high end 1911.
Nor will everyone need to.

viperashes

08-12-11, 05:31

I believe it's across the board. There have been problems with the .40's too. Glock has been working out the kinks pretty swiftly though.

chapperjoe

08-12-11, 06:47

I'm getting alot of email advice form other boards to check out HK's.

terms like "never fail" are being used.

kar30

08-12-11, 07:26

I had Glocks but never really could get use to the egros. My vote is for M&P.

KhanRad

08-12-11, 09:37

I'm getting alot of email advice form other boards to check out HK's.

terms like "never fail" are being used.

Define "fail". Either way, ALL mechanical devices, no matter how well they are engineered will break or malfunction eventually. H&Ks simply have a very long history of making very reliable, durable, and good performing firearms. Better than anyone else in the industry. Own the firearm long enough, and shoot it enough and eventually you will run into some sort of problem. The question is, how long did it take to get to that problem, and how easy of a problem is it to fix? It usually takes a long time before an H&K has a problem, and the failure is usually easy to fix.

The Dumb Gun Collector

08-12-11, 09:44

An HK P2000 is really an entire system. It is the perfect do it all pistol.

chapperjoe

08-12-11, 10:47

Define "fail". Either way, ALL mechanical devices, no matter how well they are engineered will break or malfunction eventually. H&Ks simply have a very long history of making very reliable, durable, and good performing firearms. Better than anyone else in the industry. Own the firearm long enough, and shoot it enough and eventually you will run into some sort of problem. The question is, how long did it take to get to that problem, and how easy of a problem is it to fix? It usually takes a long time before an H&K has a problem, and the failure is usually easy to fix.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/category/range-reports/p30-thursday

I'm blown away reading that.

(ETA: that's not to say the M&P one wasn't just as enlightening.)

chapperjoe

08-12-11, 11:10

Here's where I'm at.

GLOCK:
I have the glock gen4 hebeejeebees.
BUT the gen4 26 seems to be problem free, and I can always have a gen3 19 or 34 grip-reduced (I am on the line for Boresight Solutions custom work on my G36, I'd just change the job), and then maybe I can reach a vickers mag release.

M&P:
my only reservation here is that the compact doesn't seem as compact as it's competitors.
otherwise, this is the all around leader.
Reliability, Price (even with the APEX upgrades), Ergos, this has it all.

H&K:
the onyl reason I wouldn't go HK is money.
everything I read about them blows me away... as does the price.
the LEM trigger(s), the size and shootability of the SK, the seeming perfection of the P30, the all around P2000, the sterling (no pun intended) reputation.
but 650 used, 800 new.
and that's without mags/holsters/etc.

Walther:
my brother in law has one, but not the QA.
It didn't really stand out to me, and I can't get my hands on a compact to try.

XD:
mixed reviews online of both the std and M.
I had two XD40's a few years ago, the triggers weren't that great.
a few aspects of the system worry me.
but mainly it just didn't get the votes I thought it would have.

rob_s

08-12-11, 11:21

After spending a small fortune on 1911s over the years, HKs seem
like such a value for what you get. Seems like "Buy One, Get One Free" to me.

After owning seven Glocks over twenty years, I appreciate the H&Ks even more. More sense of value in the money spent on my HKs.

I like Glocks. I like 1911s. I wish the "Magic Gun Fairy" would have put a HK in my hands twenty plus years ago and shown me a crystal ball looking at what I have come to realize about my shooting needs presently. I would have saved a fortune by sticking with a couple of high end 1911s from top gunsmiths and a bunch of H&Ks.

You don't believe in the "Magic Gun Fairy"? You should. It exists.
It's called the Internet. I wish I had it twenty-some years ago to learn from as I have in the last several years. My ability to find firearms and training and techniques that work for me (without wasting a ton of cash on trial and error) has grown exponentially and
the H&K was a direct result of a lot of reading and then a lot of gun rentals ( including M&Ps, more Glocks, etc., etc.).

The Glock is also a great value. I feel for my needs, the H&K is a value taken to the next level of quality. Not everyone will ever appreciate that or will they ever appreciate a high end 1911.
Nor will everyone need to.

Here's where that internet breaks down, and where I think the OP is going to wind up chasing his tail...

I went through a not-unlike-yours process, and came to exactly opposite conclusions.

Joe, contrary to what's been written above expressly and implied elsewhere in this thread, there IS NO magic gun fairy, and there is no magic gun. Get something, go use it, and see if it works for you. If you have to modify it extensively, it's probably not the right thing. Ben is a friend, and I love my Boresight Glocks, but they are ENHANCEMENTS not necessities. If I needed to have that work done for the guns to be workable I wouldn't use a Glock.

My suggestion to you at this point is to get the M&P. It sounds like what you really want, it sounds like the only downside for you (for me there are several, but this is about you) is lack of a sub-compact model and I wouldn't let that one factor make your choice.

chapperjoe

08-12-11, 11:30

thanks.

....as usual nail+head=rob!

KhanRad

08-12-11, 11:30

[QUOTE=chapperjoe;1073668]Here's where I'm at.

H&K:
the onyl reason I wouldn't go HK is money.
everything I read about them blows me away... as does the price.
the LEM trigger(s), the size and shootability of the SK, the seeming perfection of the P30, the all around P2000, the sterling (no pun intended) reputation.
but 650 used, 800 new.
and that's without mags/holsters/etc.

[QUOTE]

The amount of money that you spend on ammo and range time will eclipse the difference between the initial purchase price of the H&K and an alternative. 10,000 round of practice 9mm will run you between $2000-$2500.

As I've said before, I found the HK P30 variant V3 to be the best overall 9mm pistol I've ever used. I spent a lot of time picking over the design, and compared it to other pistols I'm very familiar with such as Glocks, Sigs, Steyrs, Berettas, and S&Ws. However, if you are a striker fired kinda guy, the HK will take some getting used to. I've primarily used Sigs for the last 11 years, so shooting the P30 V3 version for the first time it felt natural. The DA/SA trigger was a tad longer than the Sig, but refined and smooth. The ergonomics of the pistol, and the pointability of it are way above the Sig. My first off hand groupings were very tight, and the pistol pointed very naturally. In my first round of dynamic shooting, I scored better with the P30 than I did with my Sigs which I had been using for a decade. For me at least, being a long time DA/SA shooter, the P30 V3 was a remarkably impressive pistol that I shot very well with virtually no trigger time needed to surpass my ability with my Sigs. My agency is coming up on 20 years of Sig use, and I'm hoping that I can transition to the P30.

chapperjoe

08-12-11, 11:47

The training ammo funds argument only works if I have totrain less with an hk. Otherwise an initial savings of 600$ is an overall savings of ... 600$. That's three cases of ammo. Of course initial expenditures ( let's call that a capital investment) will be. Smaller and smaller perctage over time, bu that holds true for all the choices and given inflation/IRR calculations, money spent now is more valuable.
[QUOTE=chapperjoe;1073668]Here's where I'm at.

H&K:
the onyl reason I wouldn't go HK is money.
everything I read about them blows me away... as does the price.
the LEM trigger(s), the size and shootability of the SK, the seeming perfection of the P30, the all around P2000, the sterling (no pun intended) reputation.
but 650 used, 800 new.
and that's without mags/holsters/etc.

[QUOTE]

The amount of money that you spend on ammo and range time will eclipse the difference between the initial purchase price of the H&K and an alternative. 10,000 round of practice 9mm will run you between $2000-$2500.

As I've said before, I found the HK P30 variant V3 to be the best overall 9mm pistol I've ever used. I spent a lot of time picking over the design, and compared it to other pistols I'm very familiar with such as Glocks, Sigs, Steyrs, Berettas, and S&Ws. However, if you are a striker fired kinda guy, the HK will take some getting used to. I've primarily used Sigs for the last 11 years, so shooting the P30 V3 version for the first time it felt natural. The DA/SA trigger was a tad longer than the Sig, but refined and smooth. The ergonomics of the pistol, and the pointability of it are way above the Sig. My first off hand groupings were very tight, and the pistol pointed very naturally. In my first round of dynamic shooting, I scored better with the P30 than I did with my Sigs which I had been using for a decade. For me at least, being a long time DA/SA shooter, the P30 V3 was a remarkably impressive pistol that I shot very well with virtually no trigger time needed to surpass my ability with my Sigs. My agency is coming up on 20 years of Sig use, and I'm hoping that I can transition to the P30.

C4IGrant

08-12-11, 12:23

I'm getting alot of email advice form other boards to check out HK's.

terms like "never fail" are being used.

HK makes some great guns (own several). With that said, I hate DA/SA or LEM triggers. The main reason is that you have to be a much more dedicated shooter in order to shoot them well.

C4

RagweedZulu

08-12-11, 12:36

ChapperJoe, take a look at this link. It's a very well known torture test (with ACTUAL torture, not Glock's torture) done to a G21. As soon as I saw this I started saving for my G21. Love it and carry it in cold weather almost exclusively. It doesnt PROVE anything, but I think it's interesting after reading a few posts here about how H&K never fails. Horse Puckey.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

Hogsgunwild

08-12-11, 13:13

HK makes some great guns (own several). With that said, I hate DA/SA or LEM triggers. The main reason is that you have to be a much more dedicated shooter in order to shoot them well.

C4

It's funny you say that C4. You are right on the money although I was the opposite. I thought I was somehow cheating when I started shooting my LEM triggers as they seemed to work so well for me.
With smaller Glocks (26, 27, 19 and 23) I really had to practice a lot to stay only decent with them. Part of the deal with Glocks and me is that I have finally realized that the ergonomics are just wrong for me.

Rob was correct about needing to try them all out and to see what works. Like I stated above, I read-up and then went out and rented them all. I just wish I would have learned about H&Ks a long time ago. What works for one guy can be totally wrong for the next, obviously.

Hawg_Leg

08-12-11, 13:17

H&K if you have the money

Glock if you dont.

Will488

08-12-11, 13:45

HK USP and USPc are the way to go.

yunggunz

08-12-11, 14:27

HK's have been the most accurate pistol other than a 2011 STI that I have shot.

p30 & p30L - both shot very soft and very accurate. I just don't like the decocker position. expensive mags

USP9, 40 , 45 - very soft shooting and very accurate. expensive mags

HK45- the most accurate gun I have shot other than an STI 2011. It feels like shooting a +p+ 9mm. It is big for my hands but it is a SWEET shooter. expensive mags

M&P40 - currently own, stock, voted for. I fits my hand better than glocks. I like glocks, but M&P's fit my hand better. I want a M&P9L for competition. mags for $25

XD's - meh, brother has one. Its ok. I don't like the grip safety. But I do like the loaded chamber indicator. I dont see the need for a cocked indicator. If it's chambered, how is it not cocked? Fits my hand like a glock.

2011 STI - sweetest gun I have ever shot. I can hit charcoal at 50 yards with this thing. It's very expensive though.

Odglock

08-13-11, 08:00

GLOCK is the best bang for your buck. Reliable, durable, easy to work on and get parts for, mags are cheap and plentiful, accurate...

If they fit your hand, it's an easy choice.

RGoose

08-13-11, 08:16

I did the exact same thing several months ago. I ended up going with the M&P9 and M&P9c because I like the ergos better than with Glock. You can't go wrong with either one, and these are the only two I would consider.

M&P then Glock. Based upon my own personal preferences. But you will need to choose which works best for you.

Drew78

08-13-11, 17:26

brushy bill

08-13-11, 20:44

mrosamilia

08-13-11, 20:53

Here's where that internet breaks down, and where I think the OP is going to wind up chasing his tail...

I went through a not-unlike-yours process, and came to exactly opposite conclusions.

Joe, contrary to what's been written above expressly and implied elsewhere in this thread, there IS NO magic gun fairy, and there is no magic gun. Get something, go use it, and see if it works for you. If you have to modify it extensively, it's probably not the right thing. Ben is a friend, and I love my Boresight Glocks, but they are ENHANCEMENTS not necessities. If I needed to have that work done for the guns to be workable I wouldn't use a Glock.

My suggestion to you at this point is to get the M&P. It sounds like what you really want, it sounds like the only downside for you (for me there are several, but this is about you) is lack of a sub-compact model and I wouldn't let that one factor make your choice.

Rob, if I might ask what are your other issues with the smiths?? Just wondering, I have been a Glock guy my entire adult life but now see myself shooting and trusting the M&P due to a multitude of Gen 4 failures in multiple guns.

ImBroke

08-13-11, 21:52

Nephrology

08-13-11, 21:56

Rob, if I might ask what are your other issues with the smiths?? Just wondering, I have been a Glock guy my entire adult life but now see myself shooting and trusting the M&P due to a multitude of Gen 4 failures in multiple guns.

There is a whole thread on M&P problems. Why worry about Gen4 anyway? There are PLENTY of Gen3 and 2 glocks of all size and caliber out there to buy. Dont succumb to gun forum hysteria. Just because bad guns have come out doesnt mean that EVERY gen4 glock will be a turd. Just a higher % that most of us are used to expecting (0%). The Internet is an echo chamber and sometimes it is easy to blow things out of proportion.

rob_s

08-13-11, 21:57

Rob, if I might ask what are your other issues with the smiths?? Just wondering, I have been a Glock guy my entire adult life but now see myself shooting and trusting the M&P due to a multitude of Gen 4 failures in multiple guns.

I listed them earlier in the thread. They are my issues and should not be construed to mean there is anything wrong with the M&P. When I was making my choice the Glock won out due to:

Availability of sub-compact model
Better aftermarket support
More holster, etc. options
Availability of .22 conversion
Availability of airsoft facsimile

Drew78

08-13-11, 22:20

Drew78, I *think* that means if you can obtain a proper firing grip and reach all controls properly from a purely practical standpoint. Liking the way one grip "feels" over another (texture, curves, etc) is different.

I guess thats what I kinda figured. For me, if apply my grip, as long as it dosent feel like complet shit, I guess it works?!?

I shoot the Glocks well enough, so I guess they fit!

ImBroke

08-14-11, 09:38

I guess thats what I kinda figured. For me, if apply my grip, as long as it dosent feel like complet shit, I guess it works?!?

I shoot the Glocks well enough, so I guess they fit!

Yeah me too and I think it's an advantage that we can look at handgun grip fit practically. I believe that a lot of new shooters pick the wrong firearm for them because the grip on one pistol that has practical disadvantages "feels" better than the grip on another pistol that has practical advantages. In both cases they can reach the controls and operate the pistol properly.

chapperjoe

08-14-11, 16:24

I listed them earlier in the thread. They are my issues and should not be construed to mean there is anything wrong with the M&P. When I was making my choice the Glock won out due to:

Availability of sub-compact model
Better aftermarket support
More holster, etc. options
Availability of .22 conversion
Availability of airsoft facsimile

Kinda dissapointing that s&w utilized a hammer in the 22.
Not quite the training aid we were hoping for.

Denali

08-14-11, 23:18

Start with a pair of G19s. You may not need anything else.

Okie John

My sentiments exactly.;)

yunggunz

08-15-11, 10:30

9mm Glocks for me.

Question, I have read 5 pgs of discussion here and keep seeing this "if it fits your hand" comment. I shoot glocks and held M+P's as well as HK's and none of them were like "holy crap, this gun was molded to myhands" moment. How do you guys quantify this?

The M&P palm swell is more filling in my hand. As in it fills in the gaps nicely. The "block" style like the glock and XD will have gaps in my hand. Also, shooting the gun and finding that you can manage it better is another reason for fitment. double-taps, mag changes, etc.. boils down to ergonomics.

xcibes

08-15-11, 23:18

In the end the decision is simply up to you. I have made the switch and I have chosen the gen3 glock 9mm pistols for my CC and HD needs. I had thought of moving to the cz75 but after careful consideration guided by what I have learned here I chose not to let the "feels better in my hand" be a factor in my decision. I decided to stick with the Glock, and just keep practicing until I become proficient with it. True, the cz feels much better, but I will deal with it. The reliability and simplicity of the system more than makes up for my girlie hands.

chapperjoe

08-22-11, 08:28

thanks for all your help guys, I voted M&P.
HK's are too expensive otherwise I'd flip a coin.
The glock gen4 issues worry me and gen3 isn't an option.

Alex F

08-22-11, 08:44

The glock gen4 issues worry me and gen3 isn't an option.

Why isn't Gen 3 an option? :confused:

viperashes

08-22-11, 08:56

Why isn't Gen 3 an option? :confused:

I'm wondering the same thing. My only guess is that it doesn't have a reversible mag catch. If that is the only issue. I'm left handed and drop mags just fine with my G19.

Good luck with your M&P.

Magsz

08-22-11, 10:10

Why isn't Gen 3 an option? :confused:

I believe he has already stated that the gun does not fit his hand.

I cannot shoot Gen 3 Glocks as well as i can shoot my Gen 4. I guess its because i have small hands or short fingers, honestly not sure but i sympathize with the OP.

ColdDeadHands

08-24-11, 17:17

I voted for the M&P. It's an excellent platform and there are plenty of accessories for it.

jp0319

08-25-11, 16:14

I went glock, I have a 35, 19, and 27. I love glocks they always work and are easy to work on.

JP

BWT

08-25-11, 22:43

The other thing I'll add is, I think Apex Tactical is owed a ton of credit for making a good gun, a fantastic gun.

I just saw the FSS... and as someone who CC'd a 1911, and is in the process of saving for an M&P9 with a TS... It's just like... You almost shed a tear. The DCAEK is a fantastic product as well, the RAM (though it hasn't been released for the TS Models).

It's just fascinating to watch what they're doing with those guns.

That being said, I really like the HK P30's (being truly ambi-dexterous, reliable and durable) and Gen 3 Glock's.

I've handled some HK guns, what would turn me away from them is... HK kind of reminds me of the Apple of the Gun Market. I mean they wanted to dump the MP5, possibly a gun that largely has been a staple for the company for what? The Last 20-30, maybe close to 40 years?

They dumped the P7, and I just... their guns are already expensive (though honestly, worth the money) and already hard to find parts for currently, I just see what 13 round magazines go for in the P7, and I have no interest in dealing with that.

Their Warranty has changed drastically from what I understand and their C.S. model, but HK used to be a company that if you fired anything but an approved suppressor on some of their guns, it voided your warranty instantly. Now I've heard they've changed, but stuff like that shocks me.

Let me also emphasize Warranty, I originally was a toss up between buying the Arsenal SGL 21 I bought about 6 months ago or an M&P, I decided I'd get the M&P regardless eventually, so I went with the Arsenal first.

But, My EDC 1911, My Arsenal, and to a degree the BCM AR (I had to figure out how to fit a gapper, tried several different trigger guards, not a big deal, but it was until I found a solution for it, but the gun has been flawless), all had issues, I thought I might have to ship the BCM back.

Both the Dan Wesson and the Arsenal ended up going back to the Factory, and both of them had moments where it was sketchy on whether or not their C.S. would honor their warranty. I can't emphasize enough, that a gun's warranty should be looked at very strongly, both guns were repaired. (One had a broken hammer, the other the safety selector was chewing the gun up, getting stuck, etc, etc, etc.)

But the warranty and record, easy to find parts of both the Glock and M&P, make the HK less appealing, that and, the Glock and M&P, are great guns... we own both and shoot both in my family.

They've both had faults, I can only remember one FTE in an M&P9 that we own, with WWB ammo, which is a somewhat known issue, but can be resolved with the Apex Extractor, and we have a G21 Gen3, that seems to still to this day occasionally to do light primer strikes (just received springs today for that).

I'm going after the M&P because I can make the pistol into (and every gun is that way for me, but the base gun itself, is very reliable/durable) what I want.

Question, I have read 5 pgs of discussion here and keep seeing this "if it fits your hand" comment. I shoot glocks and held M+P's as well as HK's and none of them were like "holy crap, this gun was molded to myhands" moment. How do you guys quantify this?

Some things you just pickup and you think of all the things you don't like about a prior thing and it evaporates.

I learned to shoot by shooting a Glock 21, I picked up a 1911, and after that... It just changed my perception completely. Everything seemed so much easier, and it seemed so much more controllable. Now I'll admit, I think a Gen 3 Glock 17 feels exactly right in my hand, the Glock 19 doesn't (for me), the Gen 4 doesn't (for me).

But, it just feels "right", an M&P definitely didn't until I handled one with the smallest back strap. I don't care for the M&P9c and don't ever plan to buy one, and I've shot one quite a bit, I feel the same way about a Glock 19.

Anyway, good selection, glad to see the O.P. found something he was happy with.

Leonidas77

08-26-11, 17:33

BWT

08-26-11, 22:31

I vote HK P30.

I recently transitioned from a Glock 19 to a HK P30 and couldn't be happier.

The paddle-style mag release solves your reach problem. Plus, if there is ever a problem with your gun, HK customer service has gotten a lot better and parts are more and more available.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you did buy a Gen 3 Glock and something broke, a replacement part would be new manufacture. And aren't some of the newly manufactured parts the problem?

Anyways, if you're going to standardize, then you should consider standardizing your model too. Training on a Glock 17 is not the same as training on a Glock 26. I decided to select a mid-size gun, like the 19 or the P30, because they offer the best of both worlds. I can carry concealed and train with the same weapon, no problems.

Price should not be taken into consideration here. Yes, the HKs cost more. But if you're serious about this selection and not just buying on a whim, then the extra money for an HK should not be a problem. Buy what you can shoot best. I'd rather have a more expensive gun that I can shoot great, than a less expensive gun that I am so so with.

I'd almost agree except... he's standardizing with him and his wife and he's said he's got small hands, they may not want to conceal carry a full size handgun.

Now given the P30 has a ton of different options available in grip, I don't know if that'd help.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the HK P30, I even considered one briefly, but...

I don't think the price is necessary, I think you can find a gun you won't be able to wear out in your life time for around $400-500, with a Lifetime warranty, not a "Gotten better" warranty.

I don't think the sun rises and sets on the M&P and there are some things I'd change from the factory, and I can say the exact same thing about the P30.

I'd rather have a more expensive gun that I can shoot great, than a less expensive gun that I am so so with.

I've met one person in my entire life with an HK P30 "in the wild", gun stores usually won't have the model you want, you will be special ordering it.

I don't see how someone can get hands on experience with a P30 without buying one, realistically.

The paddle-style mag release solves your reach problem.

... It pushes the magazine forward of the pistol grip, onto the trigger guard... not sure I follow the thought process here.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/p30_general.asp

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765668_-1_757954_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

I don't think the M&P's flawless, but I think it's a great gun, I also think the P30's a great gun.

I'd be lieing to you if I didn't look at one on budsgunshop, and then realize there were about 5 or 6 variants and I didn't see what I wanted, which was the 15 round magazine, P30S, but I'd also want the V3 or LEM trigger, which you can't find all of those in a factory gun. They build a good product, but every time I look, I remember why I'm going wit hsomething else, I can't find the gun I want stocked anywhere within 10-15 minutes on the internet... that's saying something.

But arguably I'd install a DCAEK or FSS in an M&P9, and I'd change the sights regardless of the gun.

I'm just interested with the lines of thought here.

Leonidas77

08-27-11, 23:15

I'd almost agree except... he's standardizing with him and his wife and he's said he's got small hands, they may not want to conceal carry a full size handgun.

Now given the P30 has a ton of different options available in grip, I don't know if that'd help.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the HK P30, I even considered one briefly, but...

I don't think the price is necessary, I think you can find a gun you won't be able to wear out in your life time for around $400-500, with a Lifetime warranty, not a "Gotten better" warranty.

I don't think the sun rises and sets on the M&P and there are some things I'd change from the factory, and I can say the exact same thing about the P30.

I've met one person in my entire life with an HK P30 "in the wild", gun stores usually won't have the model you want, you will be special ordering it.

I don't see how someone can get hands on experience with a P30 without buying one, realistically.

... It pushes the magazine forward of the pistol grip, onto the trigger guard... not sure I follow the thought process here.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/p30_general.asp

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765668_-1_757954_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

I don't think the M&P's flawless, but I think it's a great gun, I also think the P30's a great gun.

I'd be lieing to you if I didn't look at one on budsgunshop, and then realize there were about 5 or 6 variants and I didn't see what I wanted, which was the 15 round magazine, P30S, but I'd also want the V3 or LEM trigger, which you can't find all of those in a factory gun. They build a good product, but every time I look, I remember why I'm going wit hsomething else, I can't find the gun I want stocked anywhere within 10-15 minutes on the internet... that's saying something.

But arguably I'd install a DCAEK or FSS in an M&P9, and I'd change the sights regardless of the gun.

I'm just interested with the lines of thought here.

I operate the paddle release with the middle finger of my strong hand. My grip does not change during a reload.

In the original post, the man said he would need to buy at least 2 full size handguns and 2 subcompacts. That's 4 guns. 2 HKs in price do not equal 4 Glocks, M&Ps, etc. My previous post explains why I think a mid-size gun is a better option than either a full size or a subcompact.

Buying an M&P and adding the trigger package, sights, and the cost of installing everything doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather buy a gun that's ready to go out of the box. I'll admit I change the sights on my guns, but that's personal preference. And I'd rather change the sights on 2 guns instead of 4.

Also, I live close to Buds Gun Shop. They do not put everything on their website. They always have the P30 in stock in almost every variant. The only variant I haven't seen is a P30ls. But from my understanding, there weren't many made and I don't go in Bud's every day, so they could have had one and sold it without me knowing it. Also, most of the other gun stores in town have the P30. Maybe it's the area I live in, but they've never been hard to find for me.