The NEW USGI Mag and "The Rest of the Story" Review

[ucrt]

.

I have been seeing the new USGI mags around lately and have been wanting to do a comparison to the OKAY, NHMTG, and Colt mags that I use.
Maybe this is common knowledge and I'm just behind times but most of the info I found out was new to me and my friends. So, I thought I'd post my "discoveries"...

I went to a Gun show last weekend and picked up two of the new USGI 30-round Magazines. I paid $8 each but a dealer friend gave me a good discount. I've seen them go for $12-$15 over the past few months.

These mags had the new Tan Followers and came from two different makers.
- Center marked CAGE #6P199 Dated 08/10
- Brownells marked CAGE# 12238 Dated 10/09.

I compared these new USGI mags to an new unused OKAY 30-round mag, of the type that I normally use.


GENERAL
Both mags were in a sealed plastic bag with a paper USGI info label on the outside.

http://i55.tinypic.com/9kplw8.jpg

The Brownells mag had a a few scuff marks on the body. The Center mag body was scuffed and scraped up like a normal OKAY or NHMTG body that I am used to seeing. Always assumed the scuffs and scrapes were from being pressed through a sizing die.

The only differences I can see on the new mags are the Springs and Followers, everything else looks the same as the old-style mags.


BODIES/FLOORPLATES
The mag bodies and the floorplates look to be identical to the old USGI mags. I swapped all of the bodies, springs, followers around and everything worked fine interchanged. The Brownells had a floorplate marked, Brownells; Montezuma, IA USA. The Brownells Floorplate was flat. I did not see any internal markings in either mag. The Center mag’s floorplate was blank and it was slightly concaved towards the Spring. I did notice the Brownells Cage/Date stamping was on the side of the mag with the mag catch hole and the Center markings were on the other side.


FOLLOWERS
The only thing I have heard about the new Followers is that the first round starts out on the right as opposed to the old Followers the first round started out on the left. This is true...

The new Followers spring attachment hole is in the center of the Follower compared with this hole being about having a 1/3 rearward offset with old Followers.

Comparing the new Followers to each other, I can see a slight difference in tint. Now I’m not an "interior decorator" but, to me, the Brownells is a brownish tan and the Center is a greenish/yellow tan. Kind of hard to tell in the pictures and in low light, the colors are hard to tell apart but there is a difference.

http://i56.tinypic.com/6eeogh.jpg

The new Followers each have different sprue locations and minor mold marks locations. All of the bevels, angles, edges and bearing surfaces appear to be identical.

http://i51.tinypic.com/1sm7mu.jpg

The Brownells mag had no marks on the follower but the Center had a tiny number “7” molded into the end of a pedestal where the Spring attaches. Don't know what the "7" indicates but I think it is evident that each Follower definitely has a different maker.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ujmoly.jpg


SPRINGS
The new Springs appear to be CS. They have a copper/bronze tint to them. Every dimension of the new Spring is different than the old Spring, as indicated in my Chart below. Compared to the old Springs, the new Spring wire is a heavier gauge, overall length is about ½”+ shorter, with thinner but wider coils and one less coil than the old Springs.

http://i56.tinypic.com/64jp6w.jpg


When inserting the new Spring in a mag body, it slides easily in between the bottom tabs that hold the Floorplate without snagging. With the new dimensions, if you remove the Floorplate, and turn the mag upside down, the new Spring and new Follower will fall out without having to wiggle or work the spring sideways.

The new Followers fit snug on their new Springs compared to how the old green Followers fit loose on the old-style Springs. The green old Followers rattle if the old Spring is shaken. When the new Follower is installed on the new Spring, the new Spring has a slight bind on the Followers that giving them a snug fit. I did notice that it is very easy to remove/install the new Followers on the new Springs. Just using my fingers was very easy.

I found this interesting - The new Spring has bends to hold Followers on both ends.

http://i55.tinypic.com/nf4ftx.jpg


One end fits the new Followers and the other end fits the old green USGI Followers.
I verified this with the new Spring by fitting the new Follower on one end and the old green Follower on the other end.


http://i51.tinypic.com/20fvtjb.jpg


The old green Follower fits on the new Spring but the Spring has to be kind of pulled and stretched a little to attach it. Once the old Follower was on the new Spring, it worked fine. This pulling and stretching makes the green Follower not rattle like it does on the old Spring.
The new Follower will only fit on the new Follower end of the new Spring.

So, it appears the new Springs are designed to work with the old and new Followers.


VERIFYING
I tried "mismatching" components and seeing how things fit. Pictures below of these two arrangements.

#1
I took the new Follower and installed it on the old USGI spring.
The new Follower would only fit one way on the old Spring. I took my “New Follower Mag Tester” (a 5/8” dowel rod) and pushed the new Follower to the bottom of the mag. Everything functioned fine, just like a MagPul Follower.

#2
I took the new Spring from each of the new USGI mag, removed the new Follower, and installed an old-style green Follower. I loaded 28-rounds into each mag and hand cycled 28-round through my rifle. This combination worked fine.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2d6jggk.jpg


NOTE
My biggest disappointment was that the new Springs appear to be designed to not work with MagPul Followers. I tried to put a MagPul Follower on the old green Follower end of the Spring and it would not fit. If I really forced it, I might have got the MagPul Follower on the Spring but I didn’t want to chance ruining the Spring or the Follower.


SUMMARY
It is evident that the new Spring & new Follower combination was designed to work individually with old-style USGI Spring and Follower. Any of the combinations I tried seems to function fine.
The old and new Mag Bodies are unchanged.
The old and new Floorplates are unchanged.
The new Followers will work on old-style Springs and the new double-ended Springs.
The new Springs will work with old-style green Followers and the new tan Followers.
The new Springs will NOT allow MagPul Followers to be used.


But maybe it’s just me…

.

[SMT85]

Great review, you answered alot of questions, thank you for sharing

[rob_s]

Great review, you answered alot of questions, thank you for sharing

Agreed. Fantastic post.

[markm]

Interesting... I doubt I'll ever need another mag in my lifetime... but if I did end up with one of these, I'd have to change the follower so the even number of rounds left the top round on the right side of the mag.

[JasonM]

cool to see the backwards-compatible spring.
Nice review.

[markm]

cool to see the backwards-compatible spring.
Nice review.

Yeah. The Mil can be dumb sometimes... but that was a no brainer.

[Blanksguy]

ucrt,

Could you post a photo(s) of the new-spring trying to be inserted into a current MgaPul-Follower so we can see what you are discribing (?).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired

[wolf_walker]

Great post. I saw a ton of these last weekend for the first time even at the backwoods NC gunshow, but was leery of them since I didn't know squat about em.

[Guntrician]

Very nice review. Well done.

[Dave_M]

Great post. Every time I came up with a question you answered it within the next couple sentences.

[hotrodder636]

:DNice post. I am impressed with the fact that you took the time to do as much as you did rather than load them both up and compare to the OKAY....nice!

[BufordTJustice]

Outstanding post, sir. :)

However, it was a really shitty move for the fedgov to deliberately design a lack of compatibility into the follower design with the MP gen3 follower. Especially considering that the fedgov basically copied the MP design and then worked off of that when making their own.

Despite the shitty move, I'm glad our soldiers are getting a better spring and follower in their mags.

[ucrt]

.

Thanks for the compliments.

====================================


ucrt,

Could you post a photo(s) of the new-spring trying to be inserted into a current MgaPul-Follower so we can see what you are discribing (?).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired


======================================

Well, I tried a little harder, to make the MagPul Follower work…to no avail. It was like I would take one-step forward and two-steps backward. Here’s what I came up with…

In both the green and MagPul Followers, the inside gap between the legs, where the New Spring fits, is a little narrow but considerably more with the MagPul Follower. The MagPul Follower has more meat on the leg nearest the connecting hole. This does not allow the New Spring to move to the right (in the pics) to allow the hook in the Spring to go into the Follower’s hole.

Below you can see how short the New Spring is on the MagPul Follower.

http://i52.tinypic.com/vywcav.jpg


I pulled and pushed and managed to get the hook in the MagPul Follower’s hole…it wasn’t easy and I couldn’t do it without a screwdriver to stretch the Spring. The New Spring is a tight fit on the old green Follower but I could do it with just my fingers. If you notice (in the pic) that the left side of the Spring is riding on top of a “ledge” on both the old green Follower and the MagPul Follower but look at the difference on the right side.

Notice how much more the New Spring is stretched on the right-side of the MagPul Follower vs. the right-side of the green Follower.

http://i55.tinypic.com/311wax5.jpg


The gap between the legs is less on both Followers, the right side of the Spring has to be raised a little to get it to fit. The MagPul Follower’s gap is less from the hole to the leg than the green Follower, so the Spring has to ride higher. I got a rough measurement and the right-side Spring gap is about .34” on the green Follower and .65” on the MagPul Follower. This increased distance, stresses the Spring and is what makes fitting the hook into the hole so much harder.

So, now I was ready to put the MagPul Follower in the mag. I did so but it was a force the whole way. I finally managed to get the Follower to the lips and when I pushed down on the Follower, it stayed where I stopped pushing.I had to stretch the Spring about a foot to pull the Follower out of the mag.

I took the Follower off the New Spring and dropped it into the mag. It slid, unforced, under its own weight to the feed lips and back out. So the MagPul Follower would not function in the mag when connected to the Spring, so I started looking for the cause.

I noticed the Follower was not running true to the Spring. In the pic below, you can see how the MagPul Follower appears to be “torqued” to one side and the Follower is rigid in this position. I attributed this to the force that Spring must be exerting to stretch it to reach the hole. This may be a contributing factor to the Follower not moving freely in the mag body but I think the main culprit is what I found next.

http://i51.tinypic.com/aot2ft.jpg



As hard as the Spring was to get connected to the Follower, I thought maybe the force was deforming the Follower. So, I used a pair of calipers to get a parallel reference and held the Follower against one side to check the how parallel the sides were.
With the Follower off of the Spring, the end of the leg appeared to be slightly closer together than at the base. Makes sense, probably to help the Follower make it around the curve in the mag. I checked another new MagPul Follower to make sure they were similar and they were.

Then, I put the MagPul Follower back on the Spring and held the same side against one side of the caliper. The gap changed. Now the Follower’s leg tips were spread apart. I could easily see the gap had changed. The legs measured to be about .040” wider now. The gap change is easily seen in the pics. I am pretty certain this is the main cause of the MagPul Follower not working on the New Spring.

http://i51.tinypic.com/20h6cma.jpg


I think you could maybe “modify” the MagPul follower to work but in time, I’m sure MagPul will come up with a new Generation to fit the New Springs (and the old Springs), it doesn’t look like it would be that difficult.

In the last picture, you can see this problem fit area on the right side of both Followers. The green Follower has a tapered curved place that allows that end of the Spring fit against the small leg and wedge itself down.
The MagPul Follower has corners that just don’t allow the Spring to move any to the right, which would let the hook reach the hole easier. These corners could probably be rounded off bit…

http://i52.tinypic.com/2iawdwy.jpg


I hope I covered the questions.

I just find it frustrating that the New Spring does not work with MagPul Followers. I probably have a 100+ yellow MagPul Followers, so I guess I’ll just keep stocking up on the Old-Style Springs to keep my Followers going until the Old-Style Springs aren't available.

But maybe it’s just me…

.

[wolf_walker]

It's frustrating and "duh" enough that I wonder if there isn't a story behind it.

[ucrt]

It's frustrating and "duh" enough that I wonder if there isn't a story behind it.

====================================

Looks like if the "hook" would have been extended an 1/8"
OR
the Spring's width was 1.75" instead of 1.93"
OR
...
I'm sure there are lots of ways to have made the MagPul Follower work...

OR
(playing the devil's advocate) maybe MagPul was in on the whole deal and just had "planned obsolescense" built into the new Spring, so they could come out with a new "one size fits all" Follower...?

I agree, there seems to be a "story" behind the scenes as to why the MagPul Follower just so happened to not fit.

But maybe it's just me...

.

[RogerinTPA]

Excellent review...thanks for the work.

[ALCOAR]

I must say that this is a really impressive thread. Great job ucrt...it's threads like these that set M4C apart from all the other sites imo:)

[BufordTJustice]

I must say that this is a really impressive thread. Great job ucrt...it's threads like these that set M4C apart from all the other sites imo:)

Agreed. We have a TON of first-hand pix and measurements from the OP in this thread, as opposed to bullshit and posturing on the kiddie site.

I'll say it again, PHENOMENAL thread ucrt. :cool:

[skullworks]

Good job!

[warpigM-4]

I think this should be added to the sticky in Mags Awesome write up and Pictures thank you

[wolf_walker]

Agreed. We have a TON of first-hand pix and measurements from the OP in this thread, as opposed to bullshit and posturing on the kiddie site.

I'll say it again, PHENOMENAL thread ucrt. :cool:

UCRT, like myself, is a registered user and sometimes poster on "the kiddie site" mind you. And I first read of this issue with the new followers and springs being specific in a post dated April 4th 11 on "the kiddie site". This is an excellent thread and a big thank you to UCRT, but the jist of what one needs to know has long since been available to anyone who was motivated to look at all. While there is a marked difference in this site, usually, it isn't fair or very, ahem, grown up, to dismiss that entire body of information over yonder as "the kiddie site". I promise you there are other sites that could and do look down upon this one in the same way, some with reason and some with not. I'm mostly just glad they are all around and pretty much free, and partake of there collective info whenever I can. And I thank all of you for participating.

Just sayin..

[The_War_Wagon]

I just cut DOWN three Magpul followers, to fit inside some Brownells 20 round mags. It works... but not as well as I would have liked. :o

Nonetheless, I've had this issue with Magpul followers in GI mags for years now - and here I thought I was the ONLY one! :o

[Kisara]

Thanks for the informative post. I wonder if loading to 28 is now a waste of time with these.

[ucrt]

Thanks for the informative post. I wonder if loading to 28 is now a waste of time with these.

=====================================

With 30-rounds loaded, it was as hard to seat the New USGI as it was the old USGI on a closed bolt.

.

[wolf_walker]

I went through and cleaned my mags last night since I was bored, replaced my last two black followers with magpuls. I noticed with a full 30 about half of them seat pretty well on a closed bolt, about half of them require a good push. The p-mags and the lancers especially seem to seat easier with bolt closed. Go figure.

[BufordTJustice]

UCRT, like myself, is a registered user and sometimes poster on "the kiddie site" mind you. And I first read of this issue with the new followers and springs being specific in a post dated April 4th 11 on "the kiddie site". This is an excellent thread and a big thank you to UCRT, but the jist of what one needs to know has long since been available to anyone who was motivated to look at all. While there is a marked difference in this site, usually, it isn't fair or very, ahem, grown up, to dismiss that entire body of information over yonder as "the kiddie site". I promise you there are other sites that could and do look down upon this one in the same way, some with reason and some with not. I'm mostly just glad they are all around and pretty much free, and partake of there collective info whenever I can. And I thank all of you for participating.

Just sayin..

I, too, am a member and poster at 'the kiddie site'. I agree that there is a lot of good information to be gleaned over there and I am a frequent lurker. However, they tolerate a level of childish, fact-less, emotional bickering over ridiculous topics like 1000 yard shooting and other mall-ninja areas that this site simply won't put up with. I am glad that they are both around, but there is a reason why so many industry professionals and REAL operators are members and regular posters here and not on TOS.

Besides, I can easily articulate that it is more 'grown-up' to dismiss large quantities of fact-less internet rumors and he said/she said BS about products that the members are 'reviewing' despite the fact that they've never touched (much less actually owned).

I'm not dismissing the entire body of info, just the bullshit. I have 3 open tabs right now for ongoing threads on TOS. Patient people like Molon still post some amazing info over there and I keep up with that.

[Doc Safari]

Great review. I have started to see these pop up in gun shops. One dealer told me he got them from Brownells. They are selling them for between $18.99 and $24.99 each.

One dealer was literally dumping new-in-wrap Center Industries mags with the mint green plain follower for ten bucks apiece in order to make room for these new mags at more than twice the price.

Are they really all that?

[wolf_walker]

I, too, am a member and poster at 'the kiddie site'. I agree that there is a lot of good information to be gleaned over there and I am a frequent lurker. However, they tolerate a level of childish, fact-less, emotional bickering over ridiculous topics like 1000 yard shooting and other mall-ninja areas that this site simply won't put up with. I am glad that they are both around, but there is a reason why so many industry professionals and REAL operators are members and regular posters here and not on TOS.

Besides, I can easily articulate that it is more 'grown-up' to dismiss large quantities of fact-less internet rumors and he said/she said BS about products that the members are 'reviewing' despite the fact that they've never touched (much less actually owned).

I'm not dismissing the entire body of info, just the bullshit. I have 3 open tabs right now for ongoing threads on TOS. Patient people like Molon still post some amazing info over there and I keep up with that.

Understood, and I'm glad.

[tactical1]

ucrt -

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort on this. Very informative and interesting.

[ucrt]

.

Just wondering...

- has anyone seen the new USGI Mag with the Tan Follower made by someone other than Center or Brownells?

.

[Wiggity]

Great thread.

[wichaka]

I made a post over on the thread that rob_s started about GI magazines; https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81074


This last weekend (3/24) I was at a gun shop and found some Okay (33710) magazines with the new follower. I grabbed 2, since they were 11.00 each.

I will post some pics of the follower soonly.

[Frens]

nice review, thanks for sharing ;)


The Brownells mag had no marks on the follower but the Center had a tiny number “7” molded into the end of a pedestal where the Spring attaches. Don't know what the "7" indicates but I think it is evident that each Follower definitely has a different maker.

I worked in the polymer industry for a while.
usually small items like these followers are made in a mold that has multiple impression areas; depending on the size of the mold you can have 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, xyz, etc followers every time the molding machine complete a cycle.
quality molds have numbered impressions areas so that the operator can quick ID a defective area that needs to be modded/replaced/isolated.

[jesuvuah]

Good info, now if I could only find some at that price

[rob_s]

I made a post over on the thread that rob_s started about GI magazines; https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81074


This last weekend (3/24) I was at a gun shop and found some Okay (33710) magazines with the new follower. I grabbed 2, since they were 11.00 each.

I will post some pics of the follower soonly.

Given that the NHMTGs are up to $12+ at 44mag I would have bought a lot more than that!

[motorolahamm]

Nice review , GREAT pics and detail thanks

[Tact.medic]

Nicely done, I traded all of mine for MagPul for use down range. If I get a chance to see these newer mags I'll put them through the test..

[wichaka]

Given that the NHMTGs are up to $12+ at 44mag I would have bought a lot more than that!


They have lots at that price...will be back to get more.

[ucrt]

I made a post over on the thread that rob_s started about GI magazines; https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81074


This last weekend (3/24) I was at a gun shop and found some Okay (33710) magazines with the new follower. I grabbed 2, since they were 11.00 each.

I will post some pics of the follower soonly.

===============================

Wichaka,
If you don't mind, could you make a comparison of the two mags I posted to your OKay mag?
I'm curious if OKay used the same Spring setup, Follower design, mag body, etc.

Thanks

.

[wichaka]

I will be taking pics and posting them over the weekend.

Stay tuned!

[6933]

Nicely done, I traded all of mine for MagPul for use down range. If I get a chance to see these newer mags I'll put them through the test..

Stay safe brother.

Let us know how they perform if you get the chance to T&E some.

[sinlessorrow]

the reason magpul followers dont work is because they are designed for the old spring.

I'm pretty sure I read the new spring has more tension and move the next round completely up quicker than other springs, this of course allows for the round to be grabbed on higher RPM guns

[BUBBAGUNS]

I saw some of the new mags at the SAR show. They were used. The guy wanted $6 each for them. I was going to buy one, but I already spent my budget on other things.

[wichaka]

Alrighty, here's some pics of the new Okay 33710 magazine and follower.

The magazine body has not changed, from my inspection. It took both the green and magpul followers, and they worked well during firing.

I really don't see a problem with the new style followers, as they don't tilt, and seem just as stable as the Magpuls. Other than having them start on the opposire side, which isn't a problem for me...they work well. I put about 200 rounds down range on Friday with them, and 'nary a problem.

The only problem, which has been mentioned are the springs. The spring will fit the green but not Magpul followers, when used with the opposite end. How good the spring is, I've not a clue.

All the Magpul followers I currently have are the gray color model.

Now to the pics;

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay1.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay2.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay3.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay4.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay5.jpg


http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/okay6.jpg

[fixit69]

the reason magpul followers dont work is because they are designed for the old spring.

I'm pretty sure I read the new spring has more tension and move the next round completely up quicker than other springs, this of course allows for the round to be grabbed on higher RPM guns

Can you remember where you read that at? I would like to read the entire thing. This is somthing that might solve a problem for me.