Building my first AR...totally lost!

[thecirclebroke]

I want to spend around $700 at the most so I have gone with the following possibilities, I was told there are bottom barrel CMMGs for around $600 but I would like some features like 1:7 and chromelined barrels:

I have very few tools so I am planning to buy a Complete Upper and at best build the lower with minimal tools:

UPPER LOWER BOTH COMPLETE
_______________________________________________
Can't decide which upper would be better here:

PSA NATO Gov't Profile:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2278.php

PSA with Midwest T12:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2304.php

Complete Lower:
http://www.surplusammo.com/products/%2ASurplus-Ammo-%26-Arms-AR15-Lower-Complete-with-Stock.html


COMPLETE KIT BUILD
_______________________________________________
Or a complete kit with upper complete:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2252.php

or

http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt106.htm

I can't decide who makes a better kit? PSA or Del-Ton? I heard Del-Ton stuff is the bottom of the barrel and kinda bad

Then I'll dig up a cheap lower at my local shop for $75-100

Another question is why I would want a free floating system over a non-free floating system, is one much better than the other?

As for length, should I be shooting for a Rifle length gas system as it's more accurate? and Free Floating rails? Or do these not make huge differences?

Please help, I really don't know what I am doing here

Thanks guys!

[CoryCop25]

Take a look at BCM for uppers and G&R Tactical for Lower Parts Kits. Make sure you use a nice lower that is in spec and search this forum for great advice. Good luck!

[thecirclebroke]

the BCM uppers will run me alot more than the PSA ones as all the lower priced ones are out of stock :(

[Mikesull415]

Built mine using a PSA lower and magpul moe Lowe parts kit for about $220 (both were on sale) and a bcm standard middy upper which is $399 (but I traded a guy a lcp for it) them get your furniture from where ever and a decent bcg ($110 from PSA) and you're done

[Iraqgunz]

Let me ask one thing before we go any further.

Why do you need it now? Is there any reason why you couldn't wait 1-3 months and save some more money or sell off some crap and get the money?

[polymorpheous]

*snipped*

You need to read the sticky threads before you spend a single red cent.
Start here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355

[JR TACTICAL]

Ok brother,

First befoer anyone else says it try using the search tab, the orange one at the top of the screen and do some research on quality of products.

Now, PSA stuff is good from what I hear, again do a search and read some reviews. You will find that most people here are using true milspec rifles made by reputable companies such as BCM, DD, Noveske, and Colt ( I know I forgot some but bare with me ).

Here is what I would do if I were you on your budget

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-Government-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-gov-20.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/rifle-Length-Handguards-Black-p/handguards%20rifle%20length%20black.htm

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XST5BG01&name=Spikes+Tactical+Complete+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=301&search=bolt+carrier+group

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20charging%20handle%20ar15.htm

Plus your Surplus Ammo complete lower and that will put you at $716 + shipping and your transfer fees.

Doing a quality on $700 is really stretching it. I would agree with IG and save up a little more and get a quality lower or at least quality parts to put the lower together with

Just my thoughts and hope this helps

[thecirclebroke]

You need to read the sticky threads before you spend a single red cent.
Start here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
Reading it now, thanks. Sorry for the noob post :(


Let me ask one thing before we go any further.

Why do you need it now? Is there any reason why you couldn't wait 1-3 months and save some more money or sell off some crap and get the money?

I don't need it now, really any time before Christmas is fine with me. Do BCM restock their stuff that often?

[Iraqgunz]

Ok, so now we know that this is a WANT scenario and you don't need it immediately to kill zombies, ninjas or Al-Qaeda.

So, I recommend that you do some reading here. We have a metric shit ton of information about what makes a good AR, etc...

If you haven't assembled an AR lower before and you do not have the tools, I suggest that get an assembled lower first (BCM blemished) and then an upper receiver that is assembled. Add your BCG and whatever. If BCM is out of stock, check with Grant and GandRTactical.com.

Or you can simply shop around and get a Colt 6920. They have been selling for under 1100.00 dollars if you search.


Reading it now, thanks. Sorry for the noob post :(



I don't need it now, really any time before Christmas is fine with me. Do BCM restock their stuff that often?

[thecirclebroke]

Ok, so now we know that this is a WANT scenario and you don't need it immediately to kill zombies, ninjas or Al-Qaeda.

So, I recommend that you do some reading here. We have a metric shit ton of information about what makes a good AR, etc...

If you haven't assembled an AR lower before and you do not have the tools, I suggest that get an assembled lower first (BCM blemished) and then an upper receiver that is assembled. Add your BCG and whatever. If BCM is out of stock, check with Grant and GandRTactical.com.

Or you can simply shop around and get a Colt 6920. They have been selling for under 1100.00 dollars if you search.

Thanks, I may have to look into the BCM upper option, am I getting much better quality with a BCM upper than a PSA upper? Also I simply cannot go over $800, so $1100 is out of the question, wish I had the money for the colt :(

[BCmJUnKie]

How is an extra 3 or 4 hundred dollars out of the question. I find it very hard to believe.

You posted a thread and asked for help and the advice you get is out of the question.

You obviously had in your head what you wanted to do.

Why do people that are on such a strict budget "building" an AR for in the first place?

[thecirclebroke]

How is an extra 3 or 4 hundred dollars out of the question. I find it very hard to believe.

You posted a thread and asked for help and the advice you get is out of the question.

You obviously had in your head what you wanted to do.

Why do people that are on such a strict budget "building" an AR for in the first place?

Sorry, I've shot shotguns for most of my life and just recently decided to get into rifles. My original plan was to spend around $500 and get a Garand from the CMP program. Then a friend of mine told me to spend a little more and get a bottom barrel AR such as a CMMG for $600. Then the internet told me those ARs are junk and I can build a decent rifle for $700, and I really don't want to push my budget any further. I am a graduate student making very little stipend and the extra $300 may not be much for someone making a salary but for me it's quite a bit of cash.

I have taken the advice of this forum and looking at BCM uppers as I was told instead of the PSA one :). I am not trying to be a dick but I wish I had more money to throw out for a good AR off the bat but sometimes we are just a little bit limited. the $700 I will spend on this is already pushing my spending limit into the red! Thanks for understanding

[BCmJUnKie]

I know how it is wanting a rifle now, all my builds I wanted NOW, not next week not next month. Im the same way when I order parts, I hate the wait.

Im glad I waited and never owned DPMS or another shit brand and had the headaches of failures and malfunctions, I watched that happen to a few friends that got rifles around the same time as me, but hey, they got thiers first.

I remember being so mad that they had thiers and would give me shit about "Hey are you ever gonna get a rifle?! Hahahaha and they would laugh and have fun.
I have good quality weapons that I trust my LIFE with.

Trust me man, save an extra couple hundred dollars and get a Colt or BCM, you will be very happy you did

[jeto]

there are many companies out there that you can build your ar with and it won't be a crap gun and it won't be out of your price range. you don't need to jump on the band wagon and use what everyone else likes. just because they say if you go any other route it's crap. not true. take your time and do your research.

[polymorpheous]

there are many companies out there that you can build your ar with and it won't be a crap gun and it won't be out of your price range. you don't need to jump on the band wagon and use what everyone else likes. just because they say if you go any other route it's crap. not true. take your time and do your research.

And what companies would you suggest?

Edit: A guy I know wanted an upper for a lower I sold him.
I told him when he had the funds let me know, and I'd point him in the right direction.
A couple of weeks ago I sent him an email asking how that upper was coming along.
He said he ordered a Del-ton kit.
I gave him several links regarding their bolts.
"I hope I got a good one," was hes response.
When he went to put rounds down it it kept failing to feed.

[thecirclebroke]

there are many companies out there that you can build your ar with and it won't be a crap gun and it won't be out of your price range. you don't need to jump on the band wagon and use what everyone else likes. just because they say if you go any other route it's crap. not true. take your time and do your research.

Yeah I have been reading up on BCM, PSA and Spikes and every post/blog/review I've read all show that short of LMT, Noveske and Colt, thes are the brands to go for (avoiding BM, RRA, DMPS, Olympics, etc.)

I guess I will do a bit more research but I really can't go wrong with BCM, PSA or Spikes I am assuming :eek:

[The_War_Wagon]

How is an extra 3 or 4 hundred dollars out of the question. I find it very hard to believe.

You posted a thread and asked for help and the advice you get is out of the question.

You obviously had in your head what you wanted to do.

Why do people that are on such a strict budget "building" an AR for in the first place?

I bought an AR on a budget ONCE... after that, the "budget" (and THAT AR - a Doublestar CAR15) went out the window.

Quality costs what it costs, although 'gently used' items from the "For Sale" gear on this and other boards can bring the price down a bit. I'm building AR's #5 & #6 currently; budget never came into the picture. Knew what I WANTED - shopped around for the best price 'til I found it; saved until I could afford it.

[thecirclebroke]

I bought an AR on a budget ONCE... after that, the "budget" (and THAT AR - a Doublestar CAR15) went out the window.

Quality costs what it costs, although 'gently used' items from the "For Sale" gear on this and other boards can bring the price down a bit. I'm building AR's #5 & #6 currently; budget never came into the picture. Knew what I WANTED - shopped around for the best price 'til I found it; saved until I could afford it.

So I really need to pay $1000 for a decent AR-15?

[Leonidas24]

So I really need to pay $1000 for a decent AR-15?

That's not what anyone is saying. What they are saying is for you to not be limited by a certain budget and feel compelled to buy a bottom barrel gun. A good AR can be had for $700-$800 depending on the features you want with it.

[fdxpilot]

So I really need to pay $1000 for a decent AR-15?

No, but you have been given several options that are well under $1K. I will second the notion of a finished lower for your first AR. G & R Tactical has finished S&W lowers for $299, LMT for $330, and blemished (I have yet to find the blemish on mine) BCM lowers for $290. Put a PSA upper on it, with a Magpul MBUS rear sight, and you are just a little above $800, with a decent quality AR. Not top of the line, but better than Delton or some of those other brands.

[aaron_c]

I was going to go cheap on my first AR build as well- I let people talk me into the BCM upper and went with a Spike's Tactical lower. Couldn't be happier, and yes, I did have to wait a bit longer to do so.

[x-STG1]

You may also want to check out this forums Equipment Exchange (near the bottom of the sub forums). Some good deals can be found there from time to time.

[thecirclebroke]

No, but you have been given several options that are well under $1K. I will second the notion of a finished lower for your first AR. G & R Tactical has finished S&W lowers for $299, LMT for $330, and blemished (I have yet to find the blemish on mine) BCM lowers for $290. Put a PSA upper on it, with a Magpul MBUS rear sight, and you are just a little above $800, with a decent quality AR. Not top of the line, but better than Delton or some of those other brands.

Understood, I will definitely look into all these options and shop around for a while and then gather the parts. Do these companies have sales around holidays?

[alank2]

Hi,

I was just looking to build an AR a couple months ago and I agree with what everyone is saying, don't limit yourself with a particular dollar amount if possible. With just a little more cash you will be able to get quality.

Here was my original plan:

$99 CMMG Stripped Lower
$125 Palmetto MOE Lower build kit
$99 Palmetto State Armory Premium Complete Full Auto 5.56 HTP MPI BCG
$10 Palmetto Milspec AR15/M16 Charging Handle
$55 Magpul MBUS REAR Back Up Iron Sight - BLACK
$35 Magpul MOE Handguard - MID Length - BLACK
$399 BCM Standard 16" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (.625FSB)

This totals $822. Could be less if you get any better deals like the $49 lowers that Palmetto were running. Some of these prices were specials at Palmetto, but they seem to like to run sales if you wait for them. I didn't end up with the $399 BCM upper, but spent an extra $89 to get the BFH version because they said it would be another 8-12 weeks before the standard ones would be back in stock.

From what I've read, don't scrimp on the upper or bolt that is where you need to get quality...

Good luck,

Alan

[cjscore]

PSA is saying all the right things but have not been in the market long enough. I did purchase a couple lower receivers from them on the July 4th special. I do not have enough rounds through them to recommend them in good faith. LMT, BCM, and Colt have all proven themselves over and over again.

[polymorpheous]

If I had a tight budget here is what I would do....


I would get a BCM upper and bolt. $590
I would get an Aero Precision lower for $80
I would get a lower build kit from PSA for $100

No need to get an upper that hasn't been proven.
Good lowers are cheap enough still.
The heart and soul of the rifle will be the bolt and the barrel.
Do not compromise on this.

BTW: I built a 100% BCM rifle for under $1000.
It can be done.

If you can't build the lower, there will be someone in your area, probably on this board who can help.

[thecirclebroke]

Hi guys, thanks for the input, here is what I have come up with now:


BCM Upper 20in Gov't Profile with Standard Foregrip - 422
PSA BCG and Charging Handle -109
MAGPUL BUS - 55
AIM SURPLUS Lower - 165

Total Comes out to $751,
Probably another $50 for Shipping and Transfer fees and I should have something for hopefully under $800, but this would the absolute limit of where I would sit for now

My question is now if I should go with a 20in , 16in Mid or a 16in Carbine??? This thing will mostly like just be a range queen and maybe small game if I ever decide to get off my lazy butt

[polymorpheous]

Hi guys, thanks for the input, here is what I have come up with now:


BCM Upper 20in Gov't Profile with Standard Foregrip - 422
PSA BCG and Charging Handle -109
MAGPUL BUS - 55
AIM SURPLUS Lower - 165

Total Comes out to $751,
Probably another $50 for Shipping and Transfer fees and I should have something for hopefully under $800, but this would the absolute limit of where I would sit for now

My question is now if I should go with a 20in , 16in Mid or a 16in Carbine??? This thing will mostly like just be a range queen and maybe small game if I ever decide to get off my lazy butt

16 mid seems to be the best choice.
Mine is very accurate.
Check your PMs buddy.

[jet80tv]

Why are you having to pay $165 for a lower from aim? Is that complete? I just got a stripped spikes tactical lower from them for $79

[fdxpilot]

My question is now if I should go with a 20in , 16in Mid or a 16in Carbine??? This thing will mostly like just be a range queen and maybe small game if I ever decide to get off my lazy butt

I'm a big mid-length gas fan. I have 3 16" mid-lengths (1 in 6.8SPC) and 1 18" mid-length 6.8SPC.

[soupy]

Forgive me for providing a suggestion with my first post here, but it wasn't mentioned so I thought it might be worth pointing out. PSA just released their 16" FN Hammer Forged Mid-Length upper using the same profile Spikes does on their recently released upper on Aimsurplus. So for a $700 build I'd suggest the following:

Palmetto State Armory 16'' 5.56 Hammer Forged FN-barreled Mid-Length Upper w/ MOE Handguards + Rear MBUS (http://palmettostatearmory.com/2431.php) $530

Palmetto State Armory MOE Lower Build Kit (http://palmettostatearmory.com/598.php) $140

Spikes Tactical Stripped Lower (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STSL&name=Spike's+Tactical+AR15+Lower+Receiver&groupid=53) $80

Shipping should only be $15 at PSA, Aim ships Spikes stuff for free.

Grand total should be $765 + FFL fees for a MOE dressed Hammer Forged middy.

[MistWolf]

If you decide to use Palmetto, go ahead & get their pictogram lower. It's made for them by Aero Precision

[thecirclebroke]

If you decide to use Palmetto, go ahead & get their pictogram lower. It's made for them by Aero Precision

Are Aero Precision lowers good? I think they make Spikes and Aim surplus lowers too?

Thanks guys, I am left with few options here and there as the desired BCM and PSA uppers are being bought up left and right (outta stock). I think I will have to wait a little longer for either BCM or PSA to restock their uppers...and in the mean time do more research on exactly what kind of rifle I want/need....

But thanks guys for all yalls help

[Iraqgunz]

To the OP,

Something else you need to remember is this. In addition to purchasing the weapon you are going to need ammuntion, good magazines and some basic cleaning kit.

How are you going to buy this if your budget is already stretched? This is why I simply say to buy what you need (if necessary get in stages) and then put it all together right. If you buy a stripped lower you will need a buttstock wrench, punches (stake the castle nut), and a vise block at a minimum. Experienced people could probably improvise (as I have had to do) in the past. However, I do not recommend that an amateur do so. I have seen my fair share of ARbortions and they usually ended up costing more in the long run.

We haven't even begun to touch on the training aspects, becoming proficient, etc....

[sir_n0thing]

Just a thought...
If you are LE, military or someone who's life will depend on your weapon's quality, then save up for the good stuff.
If you are building a plinker that will see the range once a month or even less, don't sweat it too much. Your resale value won't be stellar, but you'll most likely still have a good time.
I own more than a few firearms, but in the end I simply cannot afford to shoot them all real frequently and I know my AR build will likely see well under 1K rounds a year. I am choosing to go with mid-tier brands, "good value for the money" items in my build. I'd love to build a $2K rifle, but I'm sure I'll have a great time with my $1K build. Of course I have no intention of going into "harm's way" with it, otherwise I'd be spending a bit more cash on it.

Just a few personal opinions from a new guy with about 4 posts, so take it for what it's worth!

[Frailer]

...'gently used' items from the "For Sale" gear on this and other boards can bring the price down a bit...

This is the approach I took when my son expressed interest in an AR. Lots of folks change "wants" mid-build, and if you prowl the back pages for parts that have been sitting unsold for a couple of weeks while the current owner chomps at the bit to buy the latest-greatest ultralight barrel or unobtanium bolt you can make their loss your gain. If you're willing to be a little flexible with your own "wants"you can save quite a bit.

I ended up with a 14.5" middy composed of brand-spanking new (except for the beat-up standard handguards that he can replace himself) high-quality parts (DD-BHF barrel, BCM BCG, etc.--all brand spanking new), complete with BUIS for $755 and a few hours of my spare time.

[warlord260]

Thanks, I may have to look into the BCM upper option, am I getting much better quality with a BCM upper than a PSA upper? Also I simply cannot go over $800, so $1100 is out of the question, wish I had the money for the colt :(

If you cant afford the gun, what are you going to do for ammo?
If you actually shoot it this will be something to consider.

[Wiggity]

Hi guys, thanks for the input, here is what I have come up with now:


BCM Upper 20in Gov't Profile with Standard Foregrip - 422
PSA BCG and Charging Handle -109
MAGPUL BUS - 55
AIM SURPLUS Lower - 165

Total Comes out to $751,
Probably another $50 for Shipping and Transfer fees and I should have something for hopefully under $800, but this would the absolute limit of where I would sit for now

My question is now if I should go with a 20in , 16in Mid or a 16in Carbine??? This thing will mostly like just be a range queen and maybe small game if I ever decide to get off my lazy butt

This is a great idea.

[cjscore]

Hi guys, thanks for the input, here is what I have come up with now:


BCM Upper 20in Gov't Profile with Standard Foregrip - 422
PSA BCG and Charging Handle -109
MAGPUL BUS - 55
AIM SURPLUS Lower - 165

Total Comes out to $751,
Probably another $50 for Shipping and Transfer fees and I should have something for hopefully under $800, but this would the absolute limit of where I would sit for now

My question is now if I should go with a 20in , 16in Mid or a 16in Carbine??? This thing will mostly like just be a range queen and maybe small game if I ever decide to get off my lazy butt


If you go with the PSA BCG get the Premium one. It is only $10 extra.

[totenkopf_u64]

These guys are offering up some good suggestions. Heed the warnings though, you won't have very much fun without magazines, ammunition, and a cheapish place to shoot it.

$479 - PSA 16" standard rifle kit
$75 - Surplus Ammo and Arms stripped lower
~$45 - Matech BUIS

Around $650 all told for a starter rifle... you could do a lot worse.

Edit: for $50 more you can get that rifle kit in the all MOE flavor

[ThirdWatcher]

I'll say it again: Only a rich man can afford to buy it twice.

[rob_s]

As I was reading through the thread my first thought was "if there isn't another $200 in the budget, how are we going to afford to shoot the thing?" Glad to see others addressed this too.

But this brings up the bigger question of why do you want a rifle, why an AR, and what are you going to do with the thing? Without knowing this it's almost impossible to give you any advice.

If you just want one, and will occasionally shoot it at the range, and are willing (or even want) to learn how to fix things when they break, I say get the absolute cheapest AR you can find on the market. If that's a $600 CMMG then get it. You'll have money for ammo and mags, you'll be more likely to shoot it, and the problems you encounter will all be learning opportunities with no downside other than ending your range day early.

Something else to think about in your case, the S&W M&P15-22. When I was in college the M&P wasn't available but the Ruger 10/22 was and we all had them. We'd go to the range and each shoot a box or two of centerfire but then we'd spend the whole day out there going through a brick (550 rounds) each of .22 ammo. Had an absolute blast.

[The_War_Wagon]

So I really need to pay $1000 for a decent AR-15?

I built a complete BCM mid-length rifle, off a 'scratch-n-dent' lower bought new, a used upper from a Mod on this board, and parts - sometimes still NiB - off "For Sale" threads on this and other boards, for right at $1,000.

I mean, a COMPLETE rifle - optic, sling, furniture, light, mounts - EVERYTHING.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/New%20build/BCM_rifle1.jpg

Yep - that's a REAL Comp M2 with QRP mount, REAL Magpul, REAL Troy MRF rail, REAL Gear Sector sling, REAL Surefire E1B, etc. - $1,000 even.

I was patient, I was deliberate, and I did it. And it's changed a bit, since, but what you see there was GTG, at $1k. I'd dare you to build one as good if not better - NOT because this setup is so 'awesome,' but rather, since you don't have money to whiz away either, do it because you'll have ALL the rifle you'll ever need, at an AFFORDABLE price.