STI/Caspian double stack 9mm

[deadly0311]

Any problems that I should hear about before jumping into an STI or Caspian double stack 9mm 2011/1911 esque pistol? Any one you guys recommend for a decent turnaround to build a quality pistol.

Some things I am looking for in said pistol:
-reliablity first and foremost
-accuracy, not bulls eye accuracy but combat accuracy
-full size pistol
-light rail
-hard use, combat features (single sided safety, front cocking serrations, flared magwell)

thanks in advance as I am fairly new to the 1911 world.

[fixit69]

Never dealt with caspian, although I hear good things.

Have had two sti pistols. 2011 and a single stack. Great pieces.

What you choose go do with the pistol? That will be the determining factor. I know with the sti, you won't be dissatisfied. Every thing you put on your list mine excels at. Maybe someone will chime in on caspian that has also had experience with sti that can tell you more than I can.

[deadly0311]

The pistol will be run hard and put up wet per say....It will be used for a Home defense and class gun. Hopefully by the time it gets to my grubby hands, by years end I want to have at least 5-6K down the pipe.

[Titleist]

Not so subtle clue on who built mine:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6183/6044409558_f58eb74e91_b.jpg

[fixit69]

Another exquisite specimen. You should put this also on your short list along with wilson cqb.

ETA: how many rounds do you have with it and how has it performed?

[deadly0311]

That Nighthawk with the FLX upgrade looks amazing.....I just dont think that I have the patience to wait on NH to build it.

[Titleist]

Another exquisite specimen. You should put this also on your short list along with wilson cqb.

ETA: how many rounds do you have with it and how has it performed?

I've got about 3000 rounds on it personally, the previous owners collectively have 10-15K+ rounds on it. So far it's been great. I broke an extractor in class, but that's a perishable and known part that breaks from use.

The gun has been very soft shooting, very accurate, and very very fun to shoot. You gotta love a platform that holds as many rounds as a Glock/M&P, and the trigger and accuracy of a .45 1911.


That Nighthawk with the FLX upgrade looks amazing.....I just dont think that I have the patience to wait on NH to build it.

Good things take time. That said, I feel your pain, I've had a 1911 on order from them since late March, but it's totally custom. It'll be worth it.

[Singlestack Wonder]

If this is for a self defense pistol, be advised that neither STI or SVI (Infinity) have ever been able to produce magazines and followers that will consistently lock the slide back on an empty mag. For ipstik competition where 27 rounders are used, not an issue, but when one's pistol is empy in a SHTF scenario, racking the slide once after the pistol doesn't go bang and finding out its empty takes precious time.

Also, he mags usually need tweeking to run consistantly. The is not a large contingent of LE departments or miltary customers for STI and SVI hi-capacity pistols.

YMMV

[nobody knows]

If this is for a self defense pistol, be advised that neither STI or SVI (Infinity) have ever been able to produce magazines and followers that will consistently lock the slide back on an empty mag. For ipstik competition where 27 rounders are used, not an issue, but when one's pistol is empy in a SHTF scenario, racking the slide once after the pistol doesn't go bang and finding out its empty takes precious time.

Also, he mags usually need tweeking to run consistantly. The is not a large contingent of LE departments or miltary customers for STI and SVI hi-capacity pistols.

YMMV

^^^^this I have a friend that has a 2011 for comp use and he loves it, but he said he would never use it for SD/HD. He also said that he has only ever personally seen ONE run without fail. Wen I was looking into getting a double stack 1911 for SD/HD the only one he recommend was a nighthawk with the flx upgrade.

[Titleist]

Not sure if mine is unique but mine feeds great and runs hollow points just fine.

[fixit69]

Never had that problem with mine either. Maybe we are just lucky. Then again I don't shoot competition.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The mags are the weak point in the system. Compare the neck on a STI Mag and any other high cap and you'll see. The STI mags come to a single feed channel while the other high caps are wider at the top. Maybe 9mm due to the smaller diameter will feed better, but I have 40 and 45 STIs and getting them to feed right is an issue.

That said, USPSA shooters get them to run like scalded apes and I've seen a Superior Weapons modd'd one that went a couple thousand rounds in the class environment with out a hitch. Keeping the mags clean I think is the key to getting it to run pretty well. Lord knows the STIs I've ran in classes have gotten majorly persnickety if the mags get dusty and sandy- which I think just exacerbates the 'round management' of the funky mag design.

Great guns, and with 140mm mags with Gramms followers holding 14 rounds of 45ACP (IIRC) in my STI 5.0 Tactical with an X300, that is my "Fear no evil' set-up. But, for a gun I stake my life on and won't mind giving up if I do end up in a shooting, I leave my STIs for games and use a 9mm M&P for when it might matter.

[Titleist]

So far my FLX has gone a whole 2500 rounds without any hiccups, but it'll never become my carry gun unless I'm in the 'shits and giggles' mood.

[Mr. Smith]

I build 2011 guns all the time you are looking at a gun that needs to have a professional work with it.

The mags are the real key I build mags for the guns that run to slide lock I just need the gun to do so.
I personally run a 2011 tactical in class and have for a long time now but you are talking about a race car.

STI guns are nice but thy can be made better with some work and in my view thy need it to be all thy can be.
Once I tune the mags in 9mm 140 thy hold 25rds it is hard to hate that.
I sell STI guns for what they are and not what they are not.
It is the shooter not the gun that makes the difference.

[deadly0311]

Well I found a Nighthawk Talon with the FLX upgrade just like Titelist's but my only hang up was that is in 45. I understand that the weak point is the magazine, as is the case with most weapons systems.

Would you guys consider the FLX upgraded Nighthawk to have the "kinks" persay worked out of them?

Thanks for all the helpful info thus far.

Mr Smith, what makes your tuned magazines roughly 100 bucks more than an STI mag from Brownells? I am honestly curious because if every mag takes that much tuning I may pass on the platform all together.

[Titleist]

Mine's actually a GRP, just without the GRP on the side.

[Littlelebowski]

Any "hard use" 1911 needs an ambi safety.

[Titleist]

Any "hard use" 1911 needs an ambi safety.

I think you'd have guys like Larry Vickers disagreeing with you on that.

[Littlelebowski]

I think you'd have guys like Larry Vickers disagreeing with you on that.

I sent him an email.

[deadly0311]

An ambi safety makes sense but can you explain why a "hard use" pistol needs an ambi safety?

[Titleist]

The 1911 wasn't designed with an ambi safety in mind, and they can cause some weird malfunctions down the road.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

[Littlelebowski]

Ever since I got shot in my right arm, I am a firm believer in ambi controls if possible.

[deadly0311]

I am aware of the gun shot wound to the strong side arm, but there are ways to work around getting shot in the strong side arm, I am aware that an ambi safety can cause some funny things to happen, also aware that NH won't warranty the pistol if they install a ambi safety.

[fixit69]

Getting shot would definately be a pivotal moment in choices and decision making. I see your point.

On a gun seeing the little use it gets on range then back in the bag, I have to say I see no use for ambi safety. But in ccw or harms way, yes. Now...

Damn I'm getting old. I just saw where it says 9mm. Im goin to shut up and listen as I do not have a 9mm 1911.

[Littlelebowski]

I wouldn't get an expensive Nighthawk or other 1911. I have done so and deeply regret the money wasted. Listen to what others are telling you about the STIs at least. If the factory mags need tuning from the....factory, not a good idea.

How about a nice Gen3 Glock or an HK P30?

[deadly0311]

Have the G19, M&P and a G26.....I really just want a double stack 1911 style pistol.

Why do you regret the higher end 1911s from NH and the likes?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I know a guy who is a USPSA Grand Master, has won at the national level, smiths his own gun and sells fully custom ones for thousands of dollars. He runs his STI/SVIs for thousands of rounds till they are dirty as hell and the slide barely cycles and then he does a simple cleaning. For CCW and home defense he grabs a Glock. There was a thread recently that referenced a LAV article about the 1911 and its use as a defensive weapon.

1911 are fun 2011s are and absolute hoot. More reliable options, especially in 9mm would be a Sig X-5 Tactical- accurate, almost as good a trigger as a 1911 and standard Sig P226 mags. I had one and loved it and only sold to follow my second suggestion, SW M&P in 9mm with thumbsafety and the forward setting sear. When Apex brings out their new barrels, it will probably give a 2011 a run for its money, at a third of the cost.

[TXBob]

Have the G19, M&P and a G26.....I really just want a double stack 1911 style pistol.

Why do you regret the higher end 1911s from NH and the likes?

Its hard to justify $2k on a firearm when you can spend $500 or even $1k for something just as good (I get cranky with spending $900 for an HK, when I can Glock or M&P). If you have the cash, more power to you. I need that extra cash--I wish my budget could afford a $3k handgun--I'd rather spend it on ammo/targets/range time.

The dude's opinions may vary, this is mine.

[Gunut]

I had a STI 9mm 2011 and shoot hundreds of rds without any problems . You can go with bushing or bull barrel
good luck and have fun shooting

[misanthropist]

If there's one thing I have always found funny, it's the way every guy I know who competes with 1911s swears by STIs, and every guy I know who uses guns for fighting purposes hates them.

Personally I have very little experience with STIs so I defer to the opinions of people I respect. But this is one of the few areas where I find opinion of a brand so deeply polarized between two groups of fairly demanding shooters.

CZ-75 based pistols being the other big "one group swears by, one group swears at" gun.

Other than those two guns, most of the high-level pistol competitors I personally know tend to agree pretty wholeheartedly with most of the high-level tactical instructors I have dealt with.

[deadly0311]

I have found a NH Talon FLX locally and may pick it up. I am still trying to decide if I want to add another caliber to my collection. Its a 45 and I am not sure if I want to have to buy another caliber of ammo to keep her fed.

[fixit69]

If you don't let me know. If the price and condition is right, I'll add it to my collection.

[samuse]

I wouldn't get an expensive Nighthawk or other 1911. I have done so and deeply regret the money wasted. Listen to what others are telling you about the STIs at least. If the factory mags need tuning from the....factory, not a good idea.

How about a nice Gen3 Glock or an HK P30?


This. Exactly this.

If you want it for range toy or something to tinker with, cool.

Would I bet my life on a 9mm 2011? Not a slim chance in hell, especially since just about every $500 plastic gun will outperform it.

I've blown all sorts of money on high end 1911s, I understand the platform and I will take a Glock 19 for any serious purpose.

[deadly0311]

For any serious purpose the Glock or M&P is getting grabbed because I have the most time on those 2 pistols....well over 10K per gun. The NH/STI 2011 would have to be proven before it gets trusted...I will not crack open the box shoot a couple magazines and call it worthy....it will take a few thousand rounds before it gets "depended" on.

[Titleist]

At close to 15-20K rounds i'm at the trusted stage with this gun.

[deadly0311]

At close to 15-20K rounds i'm at the trusted stage with this gun.

Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!! You have saved me the work....now just box it up and send it to me :D

[Titleist]

Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!! You have saved me the work....now just box it up and send it to me :D

Yeah, I see you trying, but it ain't gonna happen, bro.