In the market...

[BountyXP]

Let's start with the basics:

Yes, I have used the search feature...

Yes, I have seen "The Chart"...

Yes, I know exactly what I have to spend on the base rifle...

Yes, I have shot several brands of rifles owned by others and have a "good" idea of what I want versus what I "need" for my situation and what works for me...

No, under no circumstances, do I want to build a rifle...

No, it will not be used in .LE or .MIL situations...

Ok, with that out of the way, I'm looking for input on purchasing my first AR. I want a rifle for home defense/range work/occasional training courses/SHTF goodness. I want it to have a free-float rail, good quality folding sights front and rear (i.e. Troy and not Magpul), no fixed front sight, 16" barrel, midlength gas system, chrome barrel/BCG, 1/9 twist rate or lower and 5.56 chamber. Think that's about it for "must haves" off the top of my head. Things I don't want or care about are furniture (will be adding my own later), optics (same as furniture), or "match-grade" anything as it generally drives the price way up and I neither shoot well enough to take advantage of it nor compete so reliability/cost win out over uber accuracy/quality. Obviously I'd like it to have as many of the listed features on "The Chart" as possible but it doesn't have to have them all to be considered adequate for me.

So, given the above...and with a hard cap of $1400 to $1500 to spend on the BASE rifle...where is the board currently leaning? Just as an FYI, I'm currently leaning towards something like the "good" S&W M&P15T (811001) which I can take home for $1270 flat. Seems to have a VAST majority of my requirements and fits in well below the budget. What other models/brands should I be looking at? Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated.

[Belmont31R]

BCM lower from GR tactical.


But an upper you want from BCM with the features you want. Id recommend a 16" w/ mid length gas system. Get a BCM BCG and BCM gun fighter CH.



At least get the gun, and worry about the extras later like lights and sights. Don't skimp on things even if it takes you 6 months to buy a quality RDS. If your funds are that tight buy USED on here. Lots of Aimpoints and such for much cheaper than retail. Dont get fixated on latest and greatest. Part of the great thing about these guns is anything can be changed later on....but its better to buy good stuff right off the bat than settling on cheap stuff first then getting good stuff later.


You want the base gun to be as best as you can get, and BCM is where you want to be. Other people making good guns too but you wont beat the CS, price, and quality.


You can easily walk away with a base BCM gun for under 1k.

[kaltesherz]

I'd go with a DD V5

https://danieldefense.com/rifles/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5.html

[justin_247]

So, given the above...and with a hard cap of $1400 to $1500 to spend on the BASE rifle...where is the board currently leaning? Just as an FYI, I'm currently leaning towards something like the "good" S&W M&P15T (811001) which I can take home for $1270 flat. Seems to have a VAST majority of my requirements and fits in well below the budget. What other models/brands should I be looking at? Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated.

A S&W M&P 15T for $1270 is a rip-off - you can get a far superior rifle from DD, Colt, or BCM for that price. For $1500, you can get a top of the line Noveske.

[BountyXP]

A S&W M&P 15T for $1270 is a rip-off - you can get a far superior rifle from DD, Colt, or BCM for that price. For $1500, you can get a top of the line Noveske.

Sounds good...any idea on sourcing? DD website and a couple others have them listed as "out of stock." Also, which models from those manufacturers should I be looking at with the specs I listed? Thanks...

[justin_247]

DD M4V5LW - $1130
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-no-sights-lw.html

DD M4V5 - $1230
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-fixed-sights.html

Colt LE 6940 - $1360
http://clydearmory.com/colt-le6940.html

BCM RECCE 16 - $1190
http://www.gunforall.com/shopcart/mcartfree/product.asp?intprodid=10789&thisitem=bcm%20recce-16%20mod%200%205.56%20w/rail%2030rd

[BountyXP]

DD M4V5LW - $1130
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-no-sights-lw.html

DD M4V5 - $1230
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-fixed-sights.html

Colt LE 6940 - $1360
http://clydearmory.com/colt-le6940.html

BCM RECCE 16 - $1190
http://www.gunforall.com/shopcart/mcartfree/product.asp?intprodid=10789&thisitem=bcm%20recce-16%20mod%200%205.56%20w/rail%2030rd

Nice! Good stuff brother....any preferences or top picks in there? I also notice both the Colt and the DD have monolithic uppers. Any downside to those versus say a Troy foregrip? I don't have any experience with mono's...

[JR TACTICAL]

DD M4V5LW - $1130
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-no-sights-lw.html

DD M4V5 - $1230
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-fixed-sights.html

Colt LE 6940 - $1360
http://clydearmory.com/colt-le6940.html

BCM RECCE 16 - $1190
http://www.gunforall.com/shopcart/mcartfree/product.asp?intprodid=10789&thisitem=bcm%20recce-16%20mod%200%205.56%20w/rail%2030rd

+ 1 on this, with the requirements of your rifle I would go DD all the way. Give them a call and talk to them, either Joe or Bill and they will get you lined up with whatever you need. You can also customize you build with them if you want as far as rail systems and no sights, I noticed you wanted to add troy FU sight. I have owned many DD rifles and recently a V5 and I was extremly happ with it and NEVER had a malfunction or problem with it. All their rifles are right in your price range and I guarentee that you will be happy with whatever you get from them. If you have any questions shoot me a PM and we can talk

[BountyXP]

+ 1 on this, with the requirements of your rifle I would go DD all the way. Give them a call and talk to them, either Joe or Bill and they will get you lined up with whatever you need. You can also customize you build with them if you want as far as rail systems and no sights, I noticed you wanted to add troy FU sight. I have owned many DD rifles and recently a V5 and I was extremly happ with it and NEVER had a malfunction or problem with it. All their rifles are right in your price range and I guarentee that you will be happy with whatever you get from them. If you have any questions shoot me a PM and we can talk

PM sent...;)

[boomhower]

A DDV5 would be a great choice. Add a set of Troy's and you'll just squeak in under your budget. I have two DD's and am very pleased with them.

[Failure2Stop]

What barrel length do you want?
Do you have a preference for carbine or midlength operating systems?
Do you want a railed HG, tube HG, or something else?
Do you have a budget for BUIS, or would you like them to pop out of the box with them on?
Is there a reason you do not want a fixed FSB?

You have a realistic budget and enough information to get a good rifle pretty quickly.

[munch520]

I think he wants a 16, middy, with a railed HG.

OP, no one else has corrected it, so I will - 1:7 twist is what you want (not 1:9)

Advice on here is good, BCM/DD can be had for $1200 or less. Are you set on a new rifle...check the classifieds if not.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82509

[Slvr Surfr]

Don't waste your money on the S&W. Daniel Defense , Bravo Co., and Colt will all be worth it. Don't be afraid to buy a complete lower and complete upper separately. Two push pins make a complete rifle!

[BountyXP]

What barrel length do you want?
Do you have a preference for carbine or midlength operating systems?
Do you want a railed HG, tube HG, or something else?
Do you have a budget for BUIS, or would you like them to pop out of the box with them on?
Is there a reason you do not want a fixed FSB?

You have a realistic budget and enough information to get a good rifle pretty quickly.

Was in my original post:

16" barrel...Mid-length gas system...Railed handguard like Troy's...Want a BUIS out of the box but would add them if it was still in budget of $1500...and even though I know the FSB doesn't bother MOST shooters with red dots, it bugs the heck out of me.

Hope that clarifies things and thanks for the help.

[Failure2Stop]

Is there a reason that you need full rails?

I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to see if the advantages of high-end rail systems, and their associated $$ and weight, is worth the cost to you. Most of the rails that people put on their rifles go relatively unused. Even sticking on a VFG and a light does not demand a full rail system, and QD cups can be installed on pretty much any of them. There are also good reasons to go with a nice rail (I have owned several of each type), but it doesn't have to be a default, at least not anymore.

Have you checked the offerings from the semi-custom makers, such as DD, Noveske, and BCM?

[justin_247]

The only rifle I listed with a monolithic rail is the Colt. Neither the DD nor the BCM have mono rails. Any one of them will serve you very well, but I definitely prefer the DD. The BCM has Troy rails, which are quite a bit heavier than the DD's rails, and the Colt has a carbine length gas system and a fixed folding sight (I would much prefer to choose my own sight). My training gun is a DD carbine, and I only went with that length since I want to replicate what I'm issued. Given the choice, I'd much rather have a midlength.


Was in my original post:

16" barrel...Mid-length gas system...Railed handguard like Troy's...Want a BUIS out of the box but would add them if it was still in budget of $1500...and even though I know the FSB doesn't bother MOST shooters with red dots, it bugs the heck out of me.

Hope that clarifies things and thanks for the help.

Don't take me the wrong way here, but I don't understand how the FSB bothers you... if you're shooting both eyes open, it should be unnoticeable. I have an Aimpoint ML2 and I have never took notice of the FSB unless I was intentionally trying to.

Instead of a long rail system without an FSB, I'd just buy a DD XV, Colt 6920, or BCM M4, all with normal FSBs, and use the remaining money on an optic.

[C4IGrant]

DD M4V5LW - $1130
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-no-sights-lw.html

DD M4V5 - $1230
http://clydearmory.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5-fixed-sights.html

Colt LE 6940 - $1360
http://clydearmory.com/colt-le6940.html

BCM RECCE 16 - $1190
http://www.gunforall.com/shopcart/mcartfree/product.asp?intprodid=10789&thisitem=bcm%20recce-16%20mod%200%205.56%20w/rail%2030rd

Just as an FYI, we sell the Colt 6940 for $1280. ;)


C4

[BountyXP]

Want to thank all the posters for their responses and for giving me plenty to think about. Took the advice and went with the DD M4 Mid-length 16"...obligatory pic post to come when it gets here. ;)

[Hound_Dog]

Cant go wrong with your choice. Very quality rifle and good CS.

[aiko]

I just bought the DD M4V5 and have been very happy with it after only 500 or so rounds. The BCM 16" RECCE was my other top choice but I could not find one to put my hands on.