9 mm selection.......

[jmoore]

I've been really enjoying the "Replacing all my handguns with one system - help me out" thread. I've done that already, and after a lifetime of 1911 use, I've settled on the Glock 17 as the weapon I will train with and "carry" from here on out. (I say "carry" as I live in the Republic of Illinois, so my "carry" is restricted to having a Condition 4 weapon in the console of my truck.)

I'm now at the point of settling on ammo, sort of an extension of the one man - one gun - one ammo theory:) I've read all the sticky posts, as well as tons of other articles and reports. (and on the rare occasion of it working, I've looked up a lot using the search function here on the list:) Also - I teach Forensic Science in a Criminal Justice program, so I'm a little ahead of the curve in the terms of my understanding of terminal ballistics.

I can say that I won't be selecting 115 gr ammo, and won't be selecting +P or +P+ ammo. What I would very much appreciate from the folks here is YOUR reason behind why YOU chose either 124 gr or 147 gr ammo. FWIW - I'm leaning heavily towards the 147s - as you might expect coming from the 230 gr world of a 1911 shooter.

Again - any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

Back to see if I can get the search function to show me some love:)

john

PS – If you are at all interested in the world of Forensics – especially as related to “bones” – check out the following: http://natsci.parkland.edu/ise/bones-R-us/

[Glock17JHP]

Even though you say you have already settled on a Glock 17... if you have not yet made the actual purchase, check out the Glock 19 side-by-side with the Glock 17. You might like the Glock 19 better, like I do (I have had both).

I like the 147 grain 9mm JHP. I specifically prefer the Winchester Ranger (RA9T), and this is because I not only like the terminal performance best as compared to the other 147 grain offerings, I prefer it for the lower recoil compared to the other 147 grain offerings, too. Also, the RA9T seemed to have lower flash in my tests, too.

So... I prefer the 147 grain JHP due to the terminal performance AND the lower recoil and flash, too.

Winchester Ranger RA9T...

[QuietShootr]

I use Winchester 127gr +P+ Ranger, because I believe it displays the mix of characteristics that I want in a 9mm. Which is to say, it is hot and functions well, it's accurate, waterproofed, and has excellent terminal ballistics to boot.

[JR TACTICAL]

Im a little confused, when you say "one ammo" are you only going to buy this pirticular kind of ammo for plinking only or is this going to be for defense and plinking and kind of an all purpose round?

[jmoore]

Im a little confused, when you say "one ammo" are you only going to buy this pirticular kind of ammo for plinking only or is this going to be for defense and plinking and kind of an all purpose round?

Clarification: I'm looking to use one ammo weight for SD/HD purposes. The company where I purchase remanufactured ammo (I don't reload) also makes 124 & 147 loads, so even the practice/plinking ammo will still be the same weight. Having said that, yes, I AM sort of looking for an all-around choice. Statistically, it would most likely be used on unprotected bad guys. OTOH - as we can't ever predict anything, would there be a possibilty of use on animals, vehicles, or whatever? Yes - hence the desire "all-around" capabilities. SD would be a brand name jhp, whereas the practice would simply be fmj of the same weight.

Reality check: In the big picture, I don't know how much this really matters. Lets just say that after 4 decades of shooting 230 gr out on my 45s, I've gotten pretty damn good at hitting at distance. Why? - I "know" that load. I'd like to develop that same familiarity with a 9mm load now.

Reality check 2: What are the chances I would ever need that abilty in a real world scenario????? Well, here's a snowball, and here is hell.....

Reality check 3: Wait a minute! The way the country and the planet are going - please ignore reality check 2:)

john

[chapperjoe]

I'm lucky in that I have one choice.
I get good prices on 124gr +p gold dots.

[Fail-Safe]

I like the 147gr Winchester Ranger Talon (RA9T).

I have shot stuff with it. Feral hogs (2), bags of water, bags of water with denim in front, car doors, and even a windshield. Penetration and expansion is always goodly. I have had this round expand at very low velocities in bags of water.

I find that it is a very accurate round. It is very reliable, every 9mm pistol I own/owned eats it up. Follow ups are faster. There is a noticeable lack of muzzle flash.

I guess it doesnt hurt that its my local PDs round of choice.

I got a bunch of it at very good price points. VERY good.

[alank2]

Hi,

I'm going to throw my vote in for 147gr. If you are already a heavy and slow guy (230gr), then you will feel right at home with the 147gr and its type of recoil impulse. RA9T is good stuff.

Good luck,

Alan

[Tennvol12345]

Amazing how often these threads come up and just go around in circles. Check Doc Roberts list and go from there.

[Glock17JHP]

jmoore,
You are getting very sound advice here. The loads mentioned here thus far are all good ones (they are all on Doc's list), and should be totally reliable out of a Glock 17/19/26 in good condition.

As some have said, if you are a 'heavy/slow' guy, go for the 147 grain JHP's. (Choose one from Doc's list)

As far as plinking/practice, I like the Winchester USA 147 grain JHP (USA9JHP2). It has been 100% reliable from my Glocks, and shoots to about the same POA as RA9T.

As far as other critters besides BG's... the 147 grain JHP's should work well on pretty much any BG-sized critter, including: cougars/mountain lions and coyotes. What critters would you typically encounter there in Illinois (besides BG's)?

[KhanRad]

147gr makes for a good general purpose load. Especially if you every want to run a suppressor as it has a lower decible signature. Early 147gr JHP loads were poorly designed, so they earned a bad rap for having weak expansion and over penetration. Modern loads seem to have corrected that.

However, in and around vehicles a 124gr+P Gold Dot does a little better through steel and other hardened barriers you may encounter. Other than a "little" more snap and crack, I can't see a downside to using 124gr+P as an all around general purpose load. From years of shooting .40 and .45, it is still significantly lighter shooting.

[tpd223]

I wouldn't reject +P or certain bullets weights just because.

The 115gr DPX is one of the best general purpose loads you can get in 9mm, as is the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I really believe that the 124gr +P loads give better real world reliability in adverse conditions due to the increased slide impulse.

Anyway, pick one from Doc's list that you can get in quantity and that runs well in your gun.
If you want to stick with standard pressure, then I'd STRONGLY suggest the 147gr Ranger-T or HST.
An added bonus of those loads is that that long range drop should be very similar to what you are used to in a .45acp

[viperashes]

I feel like at this point in the thread I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to agree with the crowd here. 147gr is probably the way to go for you, considering it has very similar relative performance characteristics for 9mm as 230gr does for .45.

Me personally, I like 124gr. ammo. It runs a little bit hotter, especially the +P loads, but in terms of training into a new caliber and platform, and exploiting your strengths from what you were previously shooting, if I were in your shoes, my choice would undoubtedly be 147gr. Win. Ranger Talon.

Also, as a side-note. With Wisconsin's carry laws coming into effect, it's just a short matter of time before Illinois jumps on the right-to-carry wagon. If you haven't already purchased the Glock 17, I would seriously concider looking at the Glock 19. Future proof yourself and if you're comfortable with the G19 train yourself to it so that when Ill. finally does get on board with the rest of the country you have a weapon that is easily controllable as well as concealable.

Remember, the last vote for Illinois on concealed carry laws was only 6 votes shy of passing. That's the closest it's ever been in the last 20 years of being voted on. The day is definitely coming. :D

[jmoore]

jmoore,
What critters would you typically encounter there in Illinois (besides BG's)?

Realistically - dogs! Was camping (no tent) in southern IL back in the 70s when a pack of feral dogs or coy-dogs entered camp. All that was hanging out of my brand new mummy bag was my face - probably scented with the remians of supper that night! Was fully prepared to fire through the bag with the 1911 that was inside with me:)

[jmoore]

If you haven't already purchased the Glock 17, I would seriously concider looking at the Glock 19. .........................Remember, the last vote for Illinois on concealed carry laws was only 6 votes shy of passing. That's the closest it's ever been in the last 20 years of being voted on. The day is definitely coming. :D

Already have 2 G17 RTF2s. A 19 is next on the list once I sell of my model 22 smith.

Regarding CC in IL - I'll (gladly) believe it when I see it:) Hope you are right!!!!!!

john

[Shawn Dodson]

A few years ago I switched from 147gr to 124gr +P for the simple reason of economics. As a handloader I can purchase 124gr FMJ bullets in bulk at less cost that 147gr, and produce a 124gr FMJ handload for training that mimics my battle carry ammo (Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot).

My carry pistols are Glock 19 and Kahr PM-9 (pistols of similar design with common (identical) manual-of-arms).