View Full Version : WHY GLOCKS?!? WHY 9mm?!?
I wrote this on another board over a year ago. Thought some folks here may find it useful:
I am often asked "Why a Glock" and "Why 9mm"?
Since 1990 I have carried on duty Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, H&K, Colt, Les Baer, Springfield Armory, Para Ordance, Kimber, and Glock (there may be others that I can't recall right now)
I have had the opportunity to shoot Styer, Taurus, Walther, S&W Sigma, Wilson Combat, Ruger, CZ, Desert / Baby Eagle, STI / SVI, Browning HP, and others that can't remember right now.
Since the late 1990's I've narrowed my handgun choice to 1911's and Glocks....because it's what I shot best and what I felt most comfortable with.
Up until 2001 I had always been a fan of the .45acp, but felt comfortable with a .40cal....And felt that the 9mm was under powered.
I generally carried a 1911, but when it came to stressful shooting (ie. SWAT qual, Firearms Instructor's qual, etc) I would use a Glock because I felt more comfortable with it under stress, and found time and time again that I shot better with a Glock under stress. The Glock had the same trigger pull every time, the grip angle was perfect, no grip safeties to worry about in ackward positions, the size of the grip was just right, no safety levers / decockers, etc.
In 2001 I took a Tactical Response (formerly OPS Southeast) Tactical Pistol class. I shot the first day with my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and the second day with my Glock 35. It was after this class of shooting 500 round through each gun, back to back, that I realized that the Glock was much better suited to me.
I have been through other classes, matches, and training, and shot both guns and found that under stress, shooting one handed, shooting in awkward positions, shooting on the move, shooting while trying to perform other tasks other tasks, etc. that the Glock was better suited to me.
"Why the 9mm"? During my first class with Yeager he made the comment "Pistol bullets poke holes, rifle bullets tear shit up".....That quote stuck in my mind. I thought back to the after effects of shooting on both animals, victim's of shootings, and Officer involved shootings that I had seen personally and read about during my career. Not one shooting I could think of would the effects not been the same with a 9mm or a .45acp.
With 9mm being approximately half the price of .45acp, the recoil of 9mm being less than the .45acp, and knowing shot placement is much more important than caliber, it's not hard to understand why I switched over to 9mm. And now that I'm buying only 1 pistol caliber, logistically it's much easier for me when buying ammo.
Me: How many boxed of the 9mm Winchester White Box 100 round value packs do you have in stock?
Wal-Mart employee: 21, how many do you need?
Me: I'll take all of them.
Wal-Mart employee: (cocks head and has a bewildered look on his face) Man you must shoot a lot.
I started to rethink my mentality on pistols and pistol calibers, and after some deep soul searching found that I was an anti - 9mm guy, and loved the 1911 because I had listened to everyone else's hype. Every time I had taken a pistol class, shot in a match, practiced at the range, etc, it solidified that I shot better under stressful conditions with a Glock. But I was carrying a pistol and caliber due to hype, not on what pistol and caliber suited me the best.
Choose what best suits your style, don't believe the hype, and try it before you dismiss it.
All Glocks, All 9mm
http://www.coloradoshooting.org/usmc03%206glocks%20sized.jpg
Choose what best suits your style, don't believe the hype, and try it before you dismiss it.
Damn good advice.
The Glock was designed around the 9mm and the G19 is the thinking mans Glock. Any questions? :D
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/G19%20X200B%20CT.JPG
Grendelizer
08-16-06, 18:08
Does a Glock 32 in .357SIG count as a 9mm? :D
John
K.L. Davis
08-16-06, 18:59
Damn good advice.
But aint it hard to be practical? One of my favorite ones is when I get this question... "I want to get a handgun to keep in the house, something just in case, that the wife or I have there if we need it. I am not really a big time shooter, but have owned a few guns in my life. My wife has shot her father's gun when she was younger and fully supports us getting one... what should I get?"
My answer:
A good 38/357 revolver, a medium frame double action pistol, 5 or 6 shot... on the off times that you do take it shooting, use good 38 special rounds, but keep it loaded with full power 357 at home.
Well... a revolver? I was thinking something like a Glock or a police gun?
The revolver has so many advantages it is hard to count... the limitation of shots is almost not even a consideration. With a revolver, there is no safety to have to worry about, the immediate action drill is pull the trigger again, they can be stored loaded and are inherently safe, they require no manipulation of things to get them to work, they can not be weak wristed, a petite woman with lotion on her hands can still operate everything and if you think you will need more than 6 rounds of 357, move now.
It is funny to see the look on a guys face when I do recomend a non-tacticool revolver! The funny part is, almost every guy that did go get a wheel gun, ended up getting more interested in shooting and has "moved on" to an autoloader.
I used to give the exact same advice K.L. when I was in the biz, and I'd get the exact same look....:o
I have a Glock 21 thats proven pretty durable/reliable.
I carry a Glock 19. Those are the only Glocks I own.
Pretty reliable...:rolleyes:
I own a first gen Glock 17 and several custom 1911s, I feel totally comfortable with either as a primary. I do have a G36 that I use for backup, as well. I have often thought of bringing home a G19 from the shop, but I'd never carry it, and rarely shoot it, plus there's always someone reminding me to buy more practice ammo.;)
K.L. Davis
08-16-06, 22:45
Pretty reliable...:rolleyes:
Yah... have you ever thrown it out of an airplane?
...oh hold on, scratch that question ;)
But aint it hard to be practical? One of my favorite ones is when I get this question... "I want to get a handgun to keep in the house, something just in case, that the wife or I have there if we need it. I am not really a big time shooter, but have owned a few guns in my life. My wife has shot her father's gun when she was younger and fully supports us getting one... what should I get?"
My answer:
A good 38/357 revolver, a medium frame double action pistol, 5 or 6 shot... on the off times that you do take it shooting, use good 38 special rounds, but keep it loaded with full power 357 at home.
Well... a revolver? I was thinking something like a Glock or a police gun?
The revolver has so many advantages it is hard to count... the limitation of shots is almost not even a consideration. With a revolver, there is no safety to have to worry about, the immediate action drill is pull the trigger again, they can be stored loaded and are inherently safe, they require no manipulation of things to get them to work, they can not be weak wristed, a petite woman with lotion on her hands can still operate everything and if you think you will need more than 6 rounds of 357, move now.
It is funny to see the look on a guys face when I do recomend a non-tacticool revolver! The funny part is, almost every guy that did go get a wheel gun, ended up getting more interested in shooting and has "moved on" to an autoloader.
Excellent advice I'd say, especially if its just a 'house gun'.
I was on the verge of getting a G19 until I started seeing the stuff about the M&P, so we'll see what happens.
There is certainly nothing wrong from a ballistic standpoint with 124gr +P Speer Gold Dot.
I'm waiting for a new Glock 19 to arrive next week. What conceled carry holster you guys use? Any input on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
I'm waiting for a new Glock 19 to arrive next week. What conceled carry holster you guys use? Any input on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
I use a Milt-Sparks Versa Max II and I absolutely love it! I still use my CTAC but I found the VMII to be so comfortable I carry with it 99% of the time now. The VMII at the 3:30 position is perfect for me and allows me to drive in comfort. Because I'm skinny and lack the necessary padding around the waist I had to carry the CTAC at the 4:30 position or else it would dig into my side and become very uncomfortable in a short amount of time.
Been using Blade Tech for the last 10 years......I've gone through a BUNCH of holsters and always end up going back to Blade Tech......I'm a plain clothes detective and wear concealed 11+ hours a day, everyday. In fact I'm wearing my Glock 19 in a Blade Tech holster (I'm at work :D ..... Waiting on my partner so we can go talk to some "customers" ), as I type this.
Sparks Heritage #1, Alessi/Heinie DOJ, Safariland 6004 for G17/19 and 1911.
I use a Milt-Sparks Versa Max II and I absolutely love it!
Excellent choice:)
Been using Blade Tech for the last 10 years......I've gone through a BUNCH of holsters and always end up going back to Blade Tech......I'm a plain clothes detective and wear concealed 11+ hours a day, everyday. In fact I'm wearing my Glock 19 in a Blade Tech holster (I'm at work :D ..... Waiting on my partner so we can go talk to some "customers" ), as I type this.
What model you use? IWB or belt holster? How are this holsters on the gun finish compared to leather? :confused:
I'm asking because I'll refinish the slide with Wilsons Armor-Tuff and I'll carry this Glock more than any other gun I have.
I'm asking because I'll refinish the slide with Wilsons Armor-Tuff and I'll carry this Glock more than any other gun I have.
Gota ask. Why on earth would you need to refinsh the slide on a glock? The Tennifer is in the metal - and doesnt wear off, ever.
Gota ask. Why on earth would you need to refinsh the slide on a glock? The Tennifer is in the metal - and doesnt wear off, ever.
Because I like the black frame/ green slide combination :D . Just because i want it to be special...
What model you use? IWB or belt holster? How are this holsters on the gun finish compared to leather? :confused:
I'm asking because I'll refinish the slide with Wilsons Armor-Tuff and I'll carry this Glock more than any other gun I have.
STRAIGHT CANT, **BELT LOOP** (Stay away from the Tech-Lok....I really don't care for the Sting ray that much either), OBW, holster. I think they call it their IDPA special or something like that.
I've got about 10 of them down stairs, for all different sized glocks, with and without lights, black, green, etc.
I have a Blade Tech IBW that I'm just starting to use off duty.....haven't used it long enough to pass fair judgement on it.
Armor Tuff sucks.....stick with the tenifer finish on the Glock.
Very little holster wear is noticed on a glock with Blade Tech holsters. If you haven't cleaned your gun in a while it may look like you are getting some holster wear, but as soon as you clean your gun, you will notice the wear marks disappear.
All holsters wear pistol finishes to one extent or another. The 2 main factors are the finish and the holster. The tenifer finish the strongest finish on a pistol I have ever been exposed to.
I've got a Glock 19 that I've been carrying for the last 5 years.....In the pic above can you tell which one it is?
Semper Fi,
Jeff
I just went through a huge change. I am now down to just two handguns. Both are Glock 19s. I have decided to standardize, one trigger pull, one platform and so on.
I've got a Glock 19 that I've been carrying for the last 5 years.....In the pic above can you tell which one it is?
Semper Fi,
Jeff
Not a clue.. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/hotrod9mm/Gagle-of-Glocks.jpg
Thanks for the thread, I bought a Glock 32 this past week mainly for the caliber. After shooting it, I think I'm gonna pick up a G19 as well. The reasons you posted make all the sense in the world.
Funny how you can look at a gun and not be interested at all for years, then one day somebody hands you the same and says go shoot it. Next thing you know you've bought it and you're thinking of trading your others to simplify things.
Get the 19
I have three.
( I must admit I never had one before reading Jeff's intial posting on this issue -- I got a G17 shortly after, then was issued the 19 and it made sence to buy some)
SF 6004 for overt and a Bladetech IWB for covert.
all for the X200
Kev, you run the light in the IWB?
.... I think I'm gonna pick up a G19 as well.....
Just get a $90 conversion barrel and some G19 mags.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/hotrod9mm/3Calibers.jpg
I also use a G23 barrel too. Works great no matter what barrel I use. :cool:
I compare that to buying an AR upper, I always wind up buying a lower for it.
I will trade off my CZ 75 compact and get the 19, then (please don't laugh) I'll rid myself of my Berretta 21 and get a subcompact 9MM (G26?) to take it's place. Same trigger pull everytime, one system to learn, Tenifer finish, simplicity of a revolver and cheap ammo. Why didn't I do this years ago?
So it is now customary that at least most .40/.357sig guns will run fine with just a barrel change to 9mm? And likely a magazine change?
No notable functioning problems?
....Tenifer finish.....
Just a little FYI. Tenifer is a harding process, not a finish. The slide and barrel are soaked in a chemical bath nitriding process at 600 degrees F. This produces a 69 Rockwell hardness rating. No other parts go through this because they will warp.
:cool:
...so most .40/.357sig guns will run fine with just a conversion barrel change to 9mm? And a magazine change?
No notable functioning problems?
I have read of a couple minor problems, brass ejecting at the shooters head(easily fixed), failure to extract(generally ammo issue) and that is about all. I have converted several Glocks to 9mm for friends also.
:cool:
Steve Moses
09-16-06, 08:11
Glock 19 is pretty much my 24/7 choice now, although I have a Glock 35 I take on hog hunts and will use in Tom Givens' Polite Society Match in 2007. I use my 19 for CCW, executive protection, while executing arrest warrants for the Constable's office, and as my secondary when executing high-risk Writs of Possession (dynamic entries) on meth houses or residences where the occupants have a history of violent criminal activity. I use it to shoot local IDPA matches, and when I am dialed in I typically place in the top 5.
I pimped my Glock in the following manner:
Exchanged the factory sights (ugh) with Novak white dot front sight, which I can see pretty well in low light, and Novak race-cut black rear sight. Pretty decent combination if you know what presbyopia means. I had a local gunsmith, Fred Whitehurst, remove the finger grooves and stipple the frame, and I carry my 19 in the following holsters:
FIST IWB ultra-thin kydex with slight forward cant (great holster that won't collapse when gun is removed)
Sidearmor light holster
Safariland Tactical 6280 light holster
I have settled on 147-grain rounds, and stock up on Golden Sabers and WW Ranger (LE version). I shot a 200 pound wild sow in the head with the Golden Saber, actually hit her in the right eye, and the bullet exited and a torrent of blood just ran out of her nose and mouth after she hit the ground. To that end, I am pretty confident with that round,
Steve Moses
This is my favorite holster for IWB so far. In fact, I can't seem to get other IWB holsters to work for me at all, but with the M-Tac I forget I've got the thing on.
http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=95&osCsid=354c7741fbb97144446c746719f0410c
http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/images/G19%20Minotaur%20New%20Clips.jpg
Fifteen years ago, my brother offered to buy me whatever semi-auto pistol (within reason) I wanted for a special "congratulatory" gift. Sig, HK, Beretta, etc, etc. I told him I wanted a Glock 19. He asked "Are you sure- I said I'll get you anything you want". "Yep, I'm sure"
Fast forward to 2008. He saw the light shortly after using mine while I was working in NY and has been shooting G17s and G19s almost exclusively in recent years. He (and I) went through the Para/Colt Commander/Kimber phase. We both noticed that IPSC and IPDA matches were dominated by 1911s and Glocks. Why? I'm guessing the low bore axis. It's for that reason that I've NEVER been able to shoot Sigs, despite how much I wanted to own one of those aesthetic masterpieces.
I now have that same G19, a G22 (no rails or grips) and a new G17 (OD) that I bought from GotM4. All great pistols. Thanks, brother, for my beloved G19. It's still my favorite. :)
I'm a hard-core Browning Hi-Power owner.
If I couldn't own a Hi-Power, I'd own a Glock in 9mm. From what I've seen, a lot of Glock owners feel the same way about the old Browning.
Unlike most of the other wonder-9's the Glock and BHP fit most peoples hands (even ladies), and almost never stop working.
STRAIGHT CANT, **BELT LOOP** (Stay away from the Tech-Lok....I really don't care for the Sting ray that much either), OBW, holster. I think they call it their IDPA special or something like that.
Why straight cant as opposed to FBI cant?
Not trying to start any debate, just interested in your reasons and thoughts.
thanks,
Ed
John_Wayne777
02-23-08, 18:48
Why straight cant as opposed to FBI cant?
Not trying to start any debate, just interested in your reasons and thoughts.
thanks,
Ed
Speaking personally the straight drop belt holsters are faster, more concealable, and generally more comfortable than the FBI cant.
I like the straight drop/no cant holster myself for my G19. My holster of choice is a FIST #1K. Thinnest holster on the market period.
My Sig Sauer P228 is still my favorite pistol though between the two.
condition 1
02-23-08, 21:00
I'm a hard-core Browning Hi-Power owner.
If I couldn't own a Hi-Power, I'd own a Glock in 9mm. From what I've seen, a lot of Glock owners feel the same way about the old Browning.
Unlike most of the other wonder-9's the Glock and BHP fit most peoples hands (even ladies), and almost never stop working.
I agree, both the Glock 19 and the Hi-Power are the two easiest hand gun's to carry, light and small. I could not imagine a world without the browning HI-Power, I will walk thru the pearly gates with my HP........
Matt Edwards
02-23-08, 21:47
I too, think straight drop is faster, but FBI is more comfy and easier to conseal for me.
I also prefer straight...
wicked_police
02-23-08, 22:18
I love my 2 Glocks, G26 and G17. I want to complete the 9mm set so the 19 and 34 are next.
I used a G17 at Blackwater last year and loved it, so went out and bought one. Also got to shoot one an instructors G34. With his 33rd mag. lol
Ran through the drill we were doing without a reload while the guys with 1911's had to reload 3-4 times!! Good fun! The 34 feels great and shoots awsome.
Would be nice if we could use Glocks for work instead of the big chunks of crap steel we have right now(S&W 5946). Unfortunately our armorers and higher-ups aren't very big fans of the platform, the main reason being that the trigger has to be pulled to disassemble the gun. :rolleyes:
For general duty/patrol/uniform stuff, the 5946 is ok, built for the lowest common denominator that may only shoot once or twice a year, but for tactical and plainclothes duties, they suck major ass
I was recently in a covert tactical program and was working on a project to re-arm our guys with a new gun(wrote the requirements around the G19 :D) to be more in-line with our international counterparts as well as give the guys a much more suitable tool for the job.
Unfortunately I've been recently transfered and I think the re-arm is going to stall and die.....
Can't wait to get the 19 and 34!!
Why straight cant as opposed to FBI cant?
Not trying to start any debate, just interested in your reasons and thoughts.
thanks,
Ed
Ed,
The FBI cant has the pistol canted 17 degrees forward (17 degrees if I remember correctly).
For most people the FBI can is more comfortable when carrying concealed (depending on body style, when you are seated the back of the seat is not pushing against the butt of the gun), and the FBI cant is easier to conceal (the bottom of the pistol grip is what is most prone to "printing" when you kneel down, bend over, etc).
When drawing the pistol from the holster, the FBI cant puts the gun at an unnatural position. What I have seen with *most* shooters is there draw stroke is slower from an FBI cant holster and the presentation from the holster resembles something that should only be executed on a bowling lane.
With the straigt drop holster (no cant), your draw stroke is straight up and out toward the target. Much more efficient and less wasted movement.
At just about every pistol class I attend, I take a few extra straight drop holsters. Usually by lunch of training day 1, *most* of the guys that showed up with FBI cant holsters are switching over to straight cant holsters.
S/F,
Jeff
Robb Jensen
02-24-08, 10:37
The less the cant the faster the draw is possible. The hand naturally goes the the pistol without excessive rolling of the wrist if the holster is straight up and down. When I first starting shooting in Limited in USPSA I had used a negative can't (muzzle slightly forward) I didn't really find it faster but some people do. It's faster if you scoop the pistol during the draw instead of coming from the top, it's a little faster but easier to F it up and drop the pistol or get a bad grip on it. I've always been more comfortable coming from the top of the pistol during the draw. What's cool about my holster (a Ghost holster) is that I can adjust it for any cant I want as well as the angle side to side.
Another one that can't conceal the straight-drop here. I prefer my guns slightly behind my strong-side hip and only carry like this. Whether it's an OWB for a carbine class or an IWB for concealment, pistol classes, and competition, I always have some amount of cant to the holster/pistol.
Since I can't conceal without the cant, I learn to live with it for all the pistol shooting I do, and actually find the 0 cant to feel extremely odd now.
How much cant affects your draw is dependent in large part on where (around your waist) the pistol/holster is located. For an IWB holster, worn behind the hip, the cant doesn't really hurt your draw speed -- in many cases it improves the speed -- and makes the holster both more concealable and comfortable for most people with most guns.
For a gun worn at the point of the hip, a non-canted holster is going to be faster.
For a gun worn forward of the hip, a reverse cant is going to be faster.
And as always, YMMV depending on personal taste, body dynamics, and experience. I'm actually slower from a straight drop OWB "range holster" than I am from my IWB, which is probably entirely a function of practice.
wicked_police
02-24-08, 20:31
Another one that can't conceal the straight-drop here. I prefer my guns slightly behind my strong-side hip and only carry like this. Whether it's an OWB for a carbine class or an IWB for concealment, pistol classes, and competition, I always have some amount of cant to the holster/pistol.
Since I can't conceal without the cant, I learn to live with it for all the pistol shooting I do, and actually find the 0 cant to feel extremely odd now.
I agree. Our plainclothes work holsters have some cant, and I tend to wear it slight behind the hip as well. Much more concealable for me.
But for shooting games and some courses, no cant works perfect, only takes me a few draws to get the feel of it.
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