Few Questions about a new upper

[Navymid2011]

Hey all,

Been a while since I posted, but I've recently got a hell of a pay raise (MIDN -> O1) :happy: so I've got a little bit of income I can blow on my toys.

I've got a Stag AR-15 that I purchased for a range toy a while back. It's got a flat top with a 16" barrel. Today I just got back from the range shooting a buddy's Bushmaster that had a 14.5" barrel, and I liked it MUCH more than my Stag.

That being said, I'd also like to take this opportunity to get some more quality components on my rifle since it now doubles for HD purposes. I'm looking at Bravo Company USA, and Palmetto State Armory. After I build this, I'm going to go about converting my 16" to a longer range carbine with a magnified optic and possibly a bipod.

Questions are;

1.) Are BCG's interchangeable between uppers, or do they wear specific to each upper? My stag has been 100% for 3500 rounds, and I restaked the carrier key, so I don't see a reason to buy another BCG unless they aren't interchangeable.

2.) I don't see a huge difference between Palmetto and BCM besides price. Both include premium features not found on my stag such as 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps. Any input here?

3.) Does Stag use a heavy barrel profile? It looks to me like an M4 profile, but it's heavier than almost every other rifle I've used. They advertise it as a "Delta Profile"? It doesn't look like the SOCOM barrels in other threads though.

4.) Critique this build for me please;
a. BCM or PSA 14.5" pinned barrel (either A2X or PSA's pinned FH)
b. DD Omega Rail or Midwest Industries Drop In
c. Fixed FSB
d. Troy BUIS
e. Aimpoint PRO

Thanks for your input guys! Really appreciate having such a knowledge base to bounce ideas off of.

[fdxpilot]

Hey all,

Been a while since I posted, but I've recently got a hell of a pay raise (MIDN -> O1) :happy: so I've got a little bit of income I can blow on my toys.

I've got a Stag AR-15 that I purchased for a range toy a while back. It's got a flat top with a 16" barrel. Today I just got back from the range shooting a buddy's Bushmaster that had a 14.5" barrel, and I liked it MUCH more than my Stag.

That being said, I'd also like to take this opportunity to get some more quality components on my rifle since it now doubles for HD purposes. I'm looking at Bravo Company USA, and Palmetto State Armory. After I build this, I'm going to go about converting my 16" to a longer range carbine with a magnified optic and possibly a bipod.

Questions are;

1.) Are BCG's interchangeable between uppers, or do they wear specific to each upper? My stag has been 100% for 3500 rounds, and I restaked the carrier key, so I don't see a reason to buy another BCG unless they aren't interchangeable.

2.) I don't see a huge difference between Palmetto and BCM besides price. Both include premium features not found on my stag such as 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps. Any input here?

3.) Does Stag use a heavy barrel profile? It looks to me like an M4 profile, but it's heavier than almost every other rifle I've used. They advertise it as a "Delta Profile"? It doesn't look like the SOCOM barrels in other threads though.

4.) Critique this build for me please;
a. BCM or PSA 14.5" pinned barrel (either A2X or PSA's pinned FH)
b. DD Omega Rail or Midwest Industries Drop In
c. Fixed FSB
d. Troy BUIS
e. Aimpoint PRO

Thanks for your input guys! Really appreciate having such a knowledge base to bounce ideas off of.

Just a couple thoughts for you.

First, congrats on the graduation, Ensign (or Lt if you went Marine.) As a grad of Uncle Sam's Rocky Mountain Monastery, I know it's quite an accomplishment.

Second, bolts tend to wear together with the barrel extension, so I would not use a 3500 rd bolt with any other barrel. Keep the carrier if you want, but get another bolt. Good BCGs run $100-130, so it's not a huge expense.

Last, before you get a 14.5" with a permanent muzzle device, make sure you are getting exactly what you want, because your configuration will be permanent. You lose the adaptability that is one of the hallmarks of the AR rifle, as you cant remove the sight/gas block or barrel nut to change out handguards or rails. Personally, I have gone to light-weight barrels and live with the extra inch or so a 16" carbine carries (17-17.5" for a 16", 16.1" for a 14.5" to be legal.)

[saddlerocker]

Palmetto has some nice uppers and a real good "Premium" BCG for the price.
They have inexpensive hammer forged uppers, but they also have 4140 uppers, and parts comparable to other run of the mill manufacturers.
They will also let you upgrade to MOE handguards and MBUS for less then you could buy them for as well.

There Lower parts kits seem nice and a good price.

I would say buy the lower/LPK/premium BCG from palmetto. and the upper from BCM, unless your getting a palmetto hammer forged upper, in which case PSA has the better deal imo.

I guess what im saying is make sure you know what your ordering from PSA. They have high end and lower end stuff, their high end stuff is a great deal though.

[Navymid2011]

Just a couple thoughts for you.

First, congrats on the graduation, Ensign (or Lt if you went Marine.) As a grad of Uncle Sam's Rocky Mountain Monastery, I know it's quite an accomplishment.

Second, bolts tend to wear together with the barrel extension, so I would not use a 3500 rd bolt with any other barrel. Keep the carrier if you want, but get another bolt. Good BCGs run $100-130, so it's not a huge expense.

Last, before you get a 14.5" with a permanent muzzle device, make sure you are getting exactly what you want, because your configuration will be permanent. You lose the adaptability that is one of the hallmarks of the AR rifle, as you cant remove the sight/gas block or barrel nut to change out handguards or rails. Personally, I have gone to light-weight barrels and live with the extra inch or so a 16" carbine carries (17-17.5" for a 16", 16.1" for a 14.5" to be legal.)

Thanks very much for the congrats! What did you fly in the USAF? I'm currently stashed in Florida awaiting Navy flight school.

I'll definitely spend the extra cash on a second BCG then. I'm pretty set on the config of this upper, and all the rails that I'm looking at (MI Drop In, Omega 7.0, Centurion Arms) don't require the removal of the flash hider to install.

Would still like to hear opinions about the spec`ed out build though. Trying to keep it a more CQB set up.


Palmetto has some nice uppers and a real good "Premium" BCG for the price.

They have inexpensive hammer forged uppers, but they also have 4140 uppers, and parts comparable to other run of the mill manufacturers.

They will also let you upgrade to MOE handguards and MBUS for less then you could buy them for as well.

There Lower parts kits seem nice and a good price.

I would say buy the lower/LPK/premium BCG from palmetto. and the upper from BCM, unless your getting a palmetto hammer forged upper, in which case PSA has the better deal imo.

I guess what im saying is make sure you know what your ordering from PSA. They have high end and lower end stuff, their high end stuff is a great deal though.


I did see the high and low end of PSA's lineup. I think I'll go for PSA's hammer forged upper. Just wondering, what the difference is for the end user between hammer forged and standard barrels? I know BCM has the option as well, between their BFH and standard barrels?

I'm just getting an upper to fit onto my current stag lower. Probably get a Rock River or Chip McCormick trigger group to fix the horrendously creepy mil-spec trigger it's currently working with as well.

[fdxpilot]

Thanks very much for the congrats! What did you fly in the USAF? I'm currently stashed in Florida awaiting Navy flight school.

Flew KC135s and E3 AWACS for the Air Force. Now in the left seat of a 757 for Fedex. Good luck at Pcola. It's a great way to make a living.


I'll definitely spend the extra cash on a second BCG then. I'm pretty set on the config of this upper, and all the rails that I'm looking at (MI Drop In, Omega 7.0, Centurion Arms) don't require the removal of the flash hider to install.

Just as long as you realize you're limited to the drop in style handgrips or rails. Personally, I'm partial to Magpul MOE handguards for that style rifle. I have a BCM upper and a PSA 6.8SPC upper sharing a PSA lower, both midlengths with MOE handguards. You can add small sections of rail, or light mounts as needed.



I did see the high and low end of PSA's lineup. I think I'll go for PSA's hammer forged upper. Just wondering, what the difference is for the end user between hammer forged and standard barrels? I know BCM has the option as well, between their BFH and standard barrels?

CHF barrels are just a harder, more wear resistant barrel. Unless you are shooting many thousands of rounds per year, you probably won't get much extra value from a CHF barrel. I have one, but it was only because BCM was out of the standard barrels in the configuration I wanted, and I had the extra $100 to get the CHF one. I also have a SS barrel on one of my 6.8 rifles and a nitro-carberized steel barrel on the other, as well as a Daniels Defense chrome lined steel 5.56 (which also is CHF standard.) Any of those four would serve you well.

As far as BCGs, my 5.56 rifles have either BCM or Daniels. I did pick up one of the PSA premium bolts during their $99 sale to keep as a range bag spare.

[Failure2Stop]

I would recommend AGAINST a pinned 14.5 as your first rifle, as it limits your ability to evolve the rifle with your skill increase. About the only way I would reconsider my advice is if the user is going to be putting said barrel into a platform that will not be limited on the ability to change the barrel/HG by muzzle device permanency.

Trying to be "CQB" with a first purchase, non-NFA is nothing more than imposing limitations on skill sets and options that you don't yet know. A 16" AR is pretty much the baseline performer. If you can't do it with a 16", it really isn't applicable to the platform. If you want a "CQB" carbine, man up and get the stamp and get a 12.5. The difference between a 14.5 and a 16 inch gun when working indoors makes about the same amount of difference as black versus red colored boxers in the same environment.

I have no real emotion behind this recommendation. I do like 14.5 guns, and they work well, but they simply aren't worth the hassle in a first gun. If you do get a 14.5, I wish you the best, and I simply recommend that you be absolutely sure that the handguards are exactly what you want and that the permanently attached muzzle device does exactly what you want. Otherwise, you will be stuck trying to convince another buyer that they really need yours so you can get what you grow to prefer.

[Navymid2011]

I would recommend AGAINST a pinned 14.5 as your first rifle, as it limits your ability to evolve the rifle with your skill increase. About the only way I would reconsider my advice is if the user is going to be putting said barrel into a platform that will not be limited on the ability to change the barrel/HG by muzzle device permanency.

Trying to be "CQB" with a first purchase, non-NFA is nothing more than imposing limitations on skill sets and options that you don't yet know. A 16" AR is pretty much the baseline performer. If you can't do it with a 16", it really isn't applicable to the platform. If you want a "CQB" carbine, man up and get the stamp and get a 12.5. The difference between a 14.5 and a 16 inch gun when working indoors makes about the same amount of difference as black versus red colored boxers in the same environment.

I have no real emotion behind this recommendation. I do like 14.5 guns, and they work well, but they simply aren't worth the hassle in a first gun. If you do get a 14.5, I wish you the best, and I simply recommend that you be absolutely sure that the handguards are exactly what you want and that the permanently attached muzzle device does exactly what you want. Otherwise, you will be stuck trying to convince another buyer that they really need yours so you can get what you grow to prefer.

The rifle wouldn't be my first. I already have a 16" Stag complete rifle. This would just be a second upper. I have changed the handguards on my rifle, but didn't remove the FSB or FH. I simply dremeled off the delta ring and handguard cap, then installed the Centurion Arms rail.

I would love to get a 12.5" carbine, but the problem with NFA is that I'm early in the training pipeline which requires a lot of moving around, and I don't want to deal with moving an NFA upper.

[REDSKY383]

Congrats and you'll love P-Cola. I was stationed there for over 5 years as a Cryptologist (just up the road at Corry Station). At any rate, I have a BCM 14.5 BFH upper with a battle comp. I have been in the AR game since 1978 and this current setup is the one I happen to like the best due to the performance and handling (it is really accurate to boot).

I would recommend the BCM upper as you will be hard pressed to find anything bad about them and Paul is a stand up guy (once a Marine always a Marine).

What was said above is very true about the 14.5 platform as you will need to make sure that the flash hider/compensator is the one you want as it will be pinned and welded. I did not have a real problem with that but YMMV.

Good luck and say hello to that famous Irish bar and Rosey O'Grady's while your there. The hurricanes are great!

Best of Regards

[Failure2Stop]

The rifle wouldn't be my first. I already have a 16" Stag complete rifle. This would just be a second upper. I have changed the handguards on my rifle, but didn't remove the FSB or FH. I simply dremeled off the delta ring and handguard cap, then installed the Centurion Arms rail.

I would love to get a 12.5" carbine, but the problem with NFA is that I'm early in the training pipeline which requires a lot of moving around, and I don't want to deal with moving an NFA upper.

Sorry, I meant a first "real" upper :p.

I missed your mention of the Centurion in your last post. It does cause it to fall into my "exception" category.

I understand your reluctance to jump into an NFA item with unknown moves ahead of you, it's the same thing that prevented my NFA purchases for a long time. There are good reasons to elect for a 14.5, but I still stand by my advice that it will not make it more capable than a 16 in "CQB", whereas a 12.5(-) will, and there are advantages (still, nothing dramatic) to a 16" barrel over a 14.5". Now, if you have decided that that's the way you want to go, and that's it, great.

[Travis B]

OP, you're married to the NFA lower, not upper.

[tpdavis89]

Hey all,

Been a while since I posted, but I've recently got a hell of a pay raise (MIDN -> O1) :happy: so I've got a little bit of income I can blow on my toys.


I feel you on this brother. I got pinned in May and the pay raise isn't so bad.

[C4IGrant]

Hey all,

Been a while since I posted, but I've recently got a hell of a pay raise (MIDN -> O1) :happy: so I've got a little bit of income I can blow on my toys.

I've got a Stag AR-15 that I purchased for a range toy a while back. It's got a flat top with a 16" barrel. Today I just got back from the range shooting a buddy's Bushmaster that had a 14.5" barrel, and I liked it MUCH more than my Stag.

That being said, I'd also like to take this opportunity to get some more quality components on my rifle since it now doubles for HD purposes. I'm looking at Bravo Company USA, and Palmetto State Armory. After I build this, I'm going to go about converting my 16" to a longer range carbine with a magnified optic and possibly a bipod.

Questions are;

1.) Are BCG's interchangeable between uppers, or do they wear specific to each upper? My stag has been 100% for 3500 rounds, and I restaked the carrier key, so I don't see a reason to buy another BCG unless they aren't interchangeable.

2.) I don't see a huge difference between Palmetto and BCM besides price. Both include premium features not found on my stag such as 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps. Any input here?

3.) Does Stag use a heavy barrel profile? It looks to me like an M4 profile, but it's heavier than almost every other rifle I've used. They advertise it as a "Delta Profile"? It doesn't look like the SOCOM barrels in other threads though.

4.) Critique this build for me please;
a. BCM or PSA 14.5" pinned barrel (either A2X or PSA's pinned FH)
b. DD Omega Rail or Midwest Industries Drop In
c. Fixed FSB
d. Troy BUIS
e. Aimpoint PRO

Thanks for your input guys! Really appreciate having such a knowledge base to bounce ideas off of.


1. Keep Bolts with barrels. Do not swap back and fourth.

2. Very few companies come close to BCM's knowledge, build quality and devotion to following the TDP. Stick with them.

3. Generally, yes.

4. Looks fine.


C4

[Iraqgunz]

If he were to PCS to a non-NFA friendly state all he needs to do is drop a 16" upper on the lower and he is good to go. The upper can then be stored elsewhere and he will have no issues.


OP, you're married to the NFA lower, not upper.

[rocketman]

Congrats Navy on the P'cola gig. Doesn't get much better than being stashed in P'cola. Do yourself a favor and go down to Joe Patty's and have them steam you up a couple of pounds of shrimp to take home. Mix with plenty of beer and friends. Don't get any better than that. My kid went thru there last year and is living the dream in Meridian now. He misses the shrimp though.

Concur about the BCM uppers. They have a very wide selection and if what you want is out of stock sign up to be emailed when it comes back in. Then act quickly LOL.

I was an early adopter of light weight barrels back when almost no one but Bushmaster made them. Still have a couple of them and they have served me well.

I'm a BIG fan of BCM's light weight middy uppers. You couldn't go wrong with that.

S/F Navy and good luck in API and Primary. Enjoy that Gucci T-6B if you get VT-3 or 6.

Rocket

[Navymid2011]

Congrats Navy on the P'cola gig. Doesn't get much better than being stashed in P'cola. Do yourself a favor and go down to Joe Patty's and have them steam you up a couple of pounds of shrimp to take home. Mix with plenty of beer and friends. Don't get any better than that. My kid went thru there last year and is living the dream in Meridian now. He misses the shrimp though.

Concur about the BCM uppers. They have a very wide selection and if what you want is out of stock sign up to be emailed when it comes back in. Then act quickly LOL.

I was an early adopter of light weight barrels back when almost no one but Bushmaster made them. Still have a couple of them and they have served me well.

I'm a BIG fan of BCM's light weight middy uppers. You couldn't go wrong with that.

S/F Navy and good luck in API and Primary. Enjoy that Gucci T-6B if you get VT-3 or 6.

Rocket

Just reread this thread...enjoyed the HELL out of the T-6B with the Red Knights! Learning the in's and out's of the T-45 now in Meridian.

Still working on the new weapon though...funny how life gets in the way of hobbies.

[Bizzarolibe]

Hey all,

Been a while since I posted, but I've recently got a hell of a pay raise (MIDN -> O1) :happy: so I've got a little bit of income I can blow on my toys.

I've got a Stag AR-15 that I purchased for a range toy a while back. It's got a flat top with a 16" barrel. Today I just got back from the range shooting a buddy's Bushmaster that had a 14.5" barrel, and I liked it MUCH more than my Stag.

That being said, I'd also like to take this opportunity to get some more quality components on my rifle since it now doubles for HD purposes. I'm looking at Bravo Company USA, and Palmetto State Armory. After I build this, I'm going to go about converting my 16" to a longer range carbine with a magnified optic and possibly a bipod.

Questions are;

1.) Are BCG's interchangeable between uppers, or do they wear specific to each upper? My stag has been 100% for 3500 rounds, and I restaked the carrier key, so I don't see a reason to buy another BCG unless they aren't interchangeable.

2.) I don't see a huge difference between Palmetto and BCM besides price. Both include premium features not found on my stag such as 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps. Any input here?

3.) Does Stag use a heavy barrel profile? It looks to me like an M4 profile, but it's heavier than almost every other rifle I've used. They advertise it as a "Delta Profile"? It doesn't look like the SOCOM barrels in other threads though.

4.) Critique this build for me please;
a. BCM or PSA 14.5" pinned barrel (either A2X or PSA's pinned FH)
b. DD Omega Rail or Midwest Industries Drop In
c. Fixed FSB
d. Troy BUIS
e. Aimpoint PRO

Thanks for your input guys! Really appreciate having such a knowledge base to bounce ideas off of.

I hear you man, when I got my first 14.5" I was amazed at how much better I liked it than my 16". I would say that since you already have a 16" that you like, go for the 14.5". Just make sure that the muzzle device is what you REALLY want.

As for rail systems, you have the Centurion Arms C4 (that's what's on mine), the Midwest Industries 2-piece rail, and the DD Omega to choose from. These are all very nice free-floating rail systems. So while you are a bit limited, I'm sure you can find something you like out of these three.

As for PSA or BCM, I am not sure. Notice that out of all the reponses telling you to go with BCM, there is not one substantive, objective qualitative reason given. On paper, they are identical (assuming you are comparing PSA's higher end stuff with BCM).

However, I do think that there is at least some value in the notion of something being tried and true, which BCM is, and PSA, well, isn't quite yet. I built a complete PSA rifle for my mom using a 14.5" FN CHF barreled upper and it shoots like a dream, but it's a sample size of one so that doesn't really count for much. If I were you, I would probably get the BCM, but I still think the PSA would be a great choice.

I would also check out Rainier Arms' "combat series" uppers. They offer them in a 14.5" format, and use the absolute best quality components.

[polymorpheous]

I hear you man, when I got my first 14.5" I was amazed at how much better I liked it than my 16". I would say that since you already have a 16" that you like, go for the 14.5". Just make sure that the muzzle device is what you REALLY want.

As for rail systems, you have the Centurion Arms C4 (that's what's on mine), the Midwest Industries 2-piece rail, and the DD Omega to choose from. These are all very nice free-floating rail systems. So while you are a bit limited, I'm sure you can find something you like out of these three.

As for PSA or BCM, I am not sure. Notice that out of all the reponses telling you to go with BCM, there is not one substantive, objective qualitative reason given. On paper, they are identical (assuming you are comparing PSA's higher end stuff with BCM).

However, I do think that there is at least some value in the notion of something being tried and true, which BCM is, and PSA, well, isn't quite yet. I built a complete PSA rifle for my mom using a 14.5" FN CHF barreled upper and it shoots like a dream, but it's a sample size of one so that doesn't really count for much. If I were you, I would probably get the BCM, but I still think the PSA would be a great choice.

I would also check out Rainier Arms' "combat series" uppers. They offer them in a 14.5" format, and use the absolute best quality components.

How about BCM carbines have a long proven track record of quality, reliability, and customer service.
BCM sends their carbines out for extensive T&E.

PSA is a newcomer who have only proven that they can not get past their teething issues.
I would not trust a PSA upper with my life.

[Bizzarolibe]

How about BCM carbines have a long proven track record of quality, reliability, and customer service.
BCM sends their carbines out for extensive T&E.

PSA is a newcomer who have only proven that they can not get past their teething issues.
I would not trust a PSA upper with my life.

You know, I think alot of people read a post until they find something they disagree with and then hit the "reply" button without reading the rest of it.

If you would care to read the rest of my post, you would see where I said "I think there's some value in the notion of something being "tried and true"...which PSA isn't quite yet". That's pretty much exactly what you said, albeit in fewer words.

As for not trusting a PSA rifle with your life, I think that's being a bit too dramatic. I know plenty of people with PSA rifles who say they've been rock solid and my experience hasn't been any different. But if I were looking for a self-defense carbine I would still choose BCM over PSA for exactly the same reason I already gave in my original post.

[polymorpheous]

I did read your whole post.

You wanted substantial, objective, quantifiable, (I think that's what you meant), reasoning behind the suggestion of BCM over PSA.

The OP also stated that the rifle will serve him as a home defense rifle.
So trusting it with one's life is hardly being dramatic given it's choosen purpose.

[Rodman24]

I'm not bashing PSA or the quality of their components ( which are fine ) but I'm hesitant to recommend their builds. If want to build your upper with their components that's fine, but the 3 out of the last 4 times I've been in their store, someone has come in with a Mid upper that had a carbine gas tube. And the last time this young guy comes out from the back, looks at the gas tube and says something like "yeah I'm not sure if that's a mid or carbine tube". Let me check with someone". That's not a confidence winner for me.

Don't get me wrong, I like PSA and I've bought a lot of stuff from them. But I won't be buying any built uppers anytime soon.

[Slvr Surfr]

Navy,

Congrats on the step up and thank you for your service!

I will add in my 2 cents to the mix. I Purchased BCM 16" lw middy upper earlier this year for patrol usage. Its been nothing short of bullet proof as a performer. I would also mimic others that unless you shoot thousands of rounds a year, you are wasting money on the chf barrel. That would be extra money for ammo, accessories, or training.

With the lw profile I highly doubt you will miss the shorter barrel. I also like the modularity of being able to change muzzle devices without worry. Stick with BCM. They are proven and the CS is outstanding.

Your other parts selections look fine to me!

[KCBRUIN]

The price difference for BCM BFH vs standard is only $80 isn't it? For $80 I'll take the advantages of CHF even if I'll never see them, especially since that $80 was less than 10% of the cost of my upper. Besides cost are there any cons to having a CHF barrel as opposed to standard?

[justlikeanyoneelse]

Congrats midshipman...err I mean Ensign, no more king hall chow and commandant calls what ever will u do?! ;)

AR question wise you've got more than enough good responses.