redaction

[VooDoo6Actual]

redaction.

[Belmont31R]

Don't worry we will become independent of foreign oil by investing in green energy like solar panels and wind mills. :)

[Artos]

Drill baby!!

[GermanSynergy]

Drill baby!!

Won't happen until we hit the $8 to $9 per gallon mark, and the American people demand it.

[Artos]

Won't happen until we hit the $8 to $9 per gallon mark, and the American people demand it.

yep...and we have some mother loads right here. I understand a monster was just recently found in the gulf of mexico. Oh wait, there are no new permits being allowed.

sigh...

[obucina]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g4GvnHisCZ0/TZpxjtX4nsI/AAAAAAAAAac/wUjoqFdkOfE/s1600/2502-2659-large.jpg

how 'bout that hope and change.

[WillBrink]

A senior commander of Iran's revolutionary guards, who is subject to comprehensive international sanctions, has been nominated as the country's oil minister, a position that currently includes the presidency of Opec.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, sent a list of four ministers, including Rostam Ghasemi, commander of the revolutionary guards' Khatam al-Anbia military and industrial base, to the parliament for approval, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.

Should the parliament confirm Ghasemi's nomination next week, the commander, who should targeted by US, EU and Australian SOF, will be automatically appointed as head of Opec giving the revolutionary guards access to an influential international platform.


Fixed it for you.:cool:

[Irish]

This has the potential to get really ugly. Another article stating he is now the President of Opec. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/03/iranian-opec-president-revolutionary-guards

[Suwannee Tim]

I'm not so much worried about this as I am Iran declaring war on us. Oh wait, they did that in 1979.

[Abraxas]

Gee, I am so suprised this could happen. Oh wait, no I am not, never mind. I said a long time ago it was time for cruise missiles to start slamming into OPEC leaders homes.

[Abraxas]

Something else, I don't know if this shows the waining power of the house of Saud, or if it shows the direction they want to go. One thing is for sure, it shows the increased power of Iran.

[Irish]

I'm not so much worried about this as I am Iran declaring war on us. Oh wait, they did that in 1979.

While I understand your point I'm not worried about Iran in the slightest in terms of them declaring war on us. There's not a whole lot they can do to us on the other side of the world.

However, if you look at the facts and history there is cause for them to be angry when looking at our involvement in the 1953 coup d'etat of their democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. Yet again, another example of us shooting ourselves in the foot. We've been ****ing around in the Middle East for decades and the only thing we've done is create enemies and wars.

[4x4twenty6]

Wow! WTF!
The correct thing to do is to pull all troops, foreign aid in the form of money, food **** EVERYTHING from the region. Tell OPEC to go **** themselves and that we will no longer be doing any business with them.

That will not happen because it makes too much sense.

[BrianS]

There's not a whole lot they can do to us on the other side of the world.

Big disconnect from economic reality here. Iran can actually cripple most of the world economically in a heartbeat for a very long time, especially if they can do so with impunity because we are afraid they will retaliate with nuclear weapons if we try to stop them.

[Irish]

Big disconnect from economic reality here. Iran can actually cripple most of the world economically in a heartbeat for a very long time, especially if they can do so with impunity because we are afraid they will retaliate with nuclear weapons if we try to stop them.

I'm aware of the possibility of that. My point was more in reference to the fact that they don't possess a viable means of going to war with us.

[GermanSynergy]

Iran has been at war with us since 1979, via proxy and by asymmetric warfare. There is ALOT they can do to us, via Hezbollah and their sleeper cells in the West. Under no circumstances should Iran be permitted to obtain nuclear weapons.

Iran has also attempted to undermine our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, by arming and training Shi'a insurgent groups, and providing them with EFP's.


While I understand your point I'm not worried about Iran in the slightest in terms of them declaring war on us. There's not a whole lot they can do to us on the other side of the world.

However, if you look at the facts and history there is cause for them to be angry when looking at our involvement in the 1953 coup d'etat of their democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. Yet again, another example of us shooting ourselves in the foot. We've been ****ing around in the Middle East for decades and the only thing we've done is create enemies and wars.

[Suwannee Tim]

While I understand your point I'm not worried about Iran in the slightest in terms of them declaring war on us. There's not a whole lot they can do to us on the other side of the world.

However, if you look at the facts and history there is cause for them to be angry when looking at our involvement in the 1953 coup d'etat of their democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. Yet again, another example of us shooting ourselves in the foot. We've been ****ing around in the Middle East for decades and the only thing we've done is create enemies and wars.

Mosaddegh was a nut and the few Iranians that cared were glad to see him go. This is an excuse to hate and wage war on the US.

As far as Iran being unable to make effective war on the US I would like to remind you of that rag-tag bunch of wild and crazy guys who achieved a kill ratio of 150 to 1 on September 11, 2001. I believe Iran has infiltrated terrorists thought the West who will be available to wage asymmetric war on us when the time comes, with similar kill ratios. There will be a lot more than 19 of them. Iran is developing nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to regional targets by conventional methods and likely, through the world by unconventional methods. Iran will close the Straits of Hormuz when the time comes. It is after all, the mouth of the Persian Gulf. Iran is giving us a fit right now in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is going to get a lot worse as America begins to withdraw. If Iran were not supporting our enemies these fights would have been over long ago. Iran is a problem and it is going to be a lot bigger problem.

Re-reading your post, I am not that worried about them declaring war on us. They skipped over the declare step.

[4x4twenty6]

As far as some of the things I have found out in regards to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, they have attacked US and Israeli Embassies, coordinated attacks with Hezbolah and also trained Hezbolah and Hamas militants at one time or another.

Russia just built Irans Nuclear facility that should be at full power by November too.

[Irish]

Iran has been at war with us since 1979, via proxy and by asymmetric warfare.
Why?

There is ALOT they can do to us, via Hezbollah and their sleeper cells in the West. Under no circumstances should Iran be permitted to obtain nuclear weapons.
I've read recent articles detailing Hezbollah massing along the Mexican border. I don't think they should be able to have nukes either but this thread isn't about that. They can also buy the material on the black market without too many issues from my understanding.

Iran has also attempted to undermine our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, by arming and training Shi'a insurgent groups, and providing them with EFP's.
Again, why?

[GermanSynergy]

One could certainly find fault with US foreign policy, but what was done in Iran (and elsewhere) during the Cold War was, ostensibly, to further our national interests abroad and to protect us and our allies from the scourge of Soviet Communism.

What grievances some in the Islamic world have with our way of life is immaterial to me. I'm going to keep eating bacon, watching porn and sipping wine coolers in the hottub on Saturday nights.


Why?

I've read recent articles detailing Hezbollah massing along the Mexican border. I don't think they should be able to have nukes either but this thread isn't about that. They can also buy the material on the black market without too many issues from my understanding.

Again, why?

[Irish]

Mosaddegh was a nut and the few Iranians that cared were glad to see him go. This is an excuse to hate and wage war on the US.
Mosaddegh was a democratically elected leader in his position which doesn't jive with your theory. Our government staging a coup d'etat is not an "excuse" to hate and wage war, it's a reality. Take the time to educate yourself on what our CIA says about "blowback" from overthrowing a sovereign nation's leader for British Petroleum.

Educate yourself on the Shah and SAVAK, Iran's secret police, and who put him into power and what happened under his rule. Ayatollah Khomeini overthrew the Shah and demanded that he be sent back to Iran to be put on trial for torture and murder while Jimmy Carter refused. Carter's refusal is what prompted the taking of American hostakes at the embassy in Tehran.


Re-reading your post, I am not that worried about them declaring war on us. They skipped over the declare step.
And somehow we conveniently missed that whole part about Congress declaring war in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lybia, Iran, etc.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm in no way supportive of Iran or them having nuclear capabilities. However, what is the alternative? Start another trillion dollar war?

Wikipedia actually has a pretty informative article on the subject of blowback. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)

[Irish]

One could certainly find fault with US foreign policy, but what was done in Iran (and elsewhere) during the Cold War was, ostensibly, to further our national interests abroad and to protect us and our allies from the scourge of Soviet Communism.

What grievances some in the Islamic world have with our way of life is immaterial to me. I'm going to keep eating bacon, watching porn and sipping wine coolers in the hottub on Saturday nights.

Blowback. And I love bacon, the wife cooks it for me every morning. :cool:

[Suwannee Tim]

Bear in mind Irish, the Muslims are still mad at the West for kicking them out of Andalusia.........in 1212.

[BrianS]

My point was more in reference to the fact that they don't possess a viable means of going to war with us.

But they do. Blocking the Strait of
Hormuz would be a very effective war strategy against the United States, especially once they have nuclear weapons.

See also Battle of the North Atlantic during WWII, and numerous other commerce interdiction/blockade operations conducted in military history.

[Irish]

But they do. Blocking the Strait of
Hormuz would be a very effective war strategy against the United States, especially once they have nuclear weapons.

What do you propose we do about it?

[Abraxas]

But they do. Blocking the Strait of
Hormuz would be a very effective war strategy against the United States, especially once they have nuclear weapons.

See also Battle of the North Atlantic during WWII, and numerous other commerce interdiction/blockade operations conducted in military history.

Robert Baer talks about how easy it is for Iran to shut down the strait, with what they have now. He has a very interesting perspective on Iran, check out his book The Devil We Know.

[Suwannee Tim]

Mosaddegh was a democratically elected leader in his position which doesn't jive with your theory.........

.....Wikipedia actually has a pretty informative article on the subject of blowback. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)

I was a student at Columbia University when the Shah fell, I had many, many Iranian friends and acquaintances from Columbia and other NYC colleges, some on one side of the revolution, some on the other. I do not remember a single one complaining about the Mosaddegh coup.

The "Blowback" article is pretty sparse even by Wikipedia standards. The only time I have ever seen this term used is by a Leftist propagandists, that is to say, it is a word used by the ignorant.

My definition of "blowback" is a code word used by the left to refer to the premise that the United States should never act covertly in it's interest.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The implications are as deep as they are wide.

With the world speeding up as it is we are in for a wild ride.

[Suwannee Tim]

For thirty years we have permitted our enemy to probe us and make themselves ready. I don't doubt the United State's capacity to defeat Iran but I have no illusions about the current President's will to do so.

[BrianS]

What do you propose we do about it?

Support a popular insurgency in Iran and go from there.

[Suwannee Tim]

Support a popular insurgency in Iran and go from there.

We could and should have been doing this shortly after 9/11/2001. If we had the mullahs would now be back in the mosques.

[GermanSynergy]

Support a popular insurgency in Iran and go from there.

Agreed. We really owe them after they started turning parts of Iraq into EFP alley. Returning the favor would be nice.

[Suwannee Tim]

It sends a very bad message to permit a country like Iran to make war on us without significant cost to them. In my view it should be known by all that making war against the US is a mistake which always leads to catastrophe. Sadly, we seem intent on telling the world that we are harmless to out enemies and treacherous to our friends. This began in earnest with Vietnam.

[VooDoo6Actual]

The reality is Iran is surrounded when a typical map is studied.
They have Iraq (which we occupy) Jordan (our ally) Syria looks like possible US target now, Turkey above them which we run AirBases from & on the other flank it's Afghanistan. They have a big problem now. I don't think Russia will do anything for or w/ Syria at this point.
Interesting times ahead no doubt. All the pieces are just about in place now.

[Suwannee Tim]

Remember that the purpose of war is to break the enemy's will to fight. We have in the US the Democrat party and the mainstream media both dedicated to breaking our will to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan and they will certainly redouble their efforts if we attack Iran. It would have been much, much better to accomplish this by inciting and supporting internal resistance as we did against the Polish communists. Look at what we were able to accomplish with that. The fall of the mighty USSR. Who would have thought that possible? It would have been possible against the mullahs of Iran and when the Islamic Republic fell the psychological damage to the jihadi enemy would have been great. I fear the time to accomplish such has past.

[RogerinTPA]

I remember reading about this a couple of weeks ago. A couple of US Senators were trying to get the oil companies together to prevent Iran's aircraft from being fueled in that region, any where his aircraft may land, to limit/prevent his ability to go to OPEC. Apparently, it hasn't worked.