View Full Version : Badger bolt handle?
Can you buy an upgraded bolt handle without trashing your existing rem700 handle. I know nothing about this, but would like an upgraded handle while retaining original handle should I decide to revert back. Is this possible?
Is badger the best? Who else offers such handles?
AZ-Renegade
08-19-11, 14:51
I went with this upon recommendation from lillebowski:
http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/products/boltlift.php
It's not as clean looking as a solid bolt handle upgrade, but it works great.
I remember seeing his post and liked it. I dig it. Does it just clamp over top so to speak? I just took a quick glance at the webpage.
That just might be GTG for me. Do you like it? Is it sturdy? Any downside?
Used to be Arizona Precision:
http://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com/Products.html
Have two of his Varminter handles. Strong and well made, install is threaded on both ends.
That said, it permanently mods the bolt handle
ForTehNguyen
08-19-11, 23:04
I have one of the KRG bolt lifts, installed it in 2 minutes. Clears my scope with medium height rings, would probably clear it if it was low rings. And its easy on the wallet at $28
AZ-Renegade
08-20-11, 09:26
I remember seeing his post and liked it. I dig it. Does it just clamp over top so to speak? I just took a quick glance at the webpage.
That just might be GTG for me. Do you like it? Is it sturdy? Any downside?
It clamps over the bolt handle and uses two o-rings to keep the outer housing snug on the bolt handle. When installed, there is a very small amount of play due to the elasticity of the o rings, but nothing that will affect its function. The kit comes with epoxy that you can use to mold a better fit or to install the lift to the handle permanently, but I'm sticking with the o-rings for now.
It definetly makes manipulating the bolt much easier than with the plain bolt handle. I'm using an EGW 20 MOA base, low EGW rings with a 3.5-10x40 Leupold Mark 4 LRT. The bolt handle has plenty of room to clear the scope, even with the lift installed.
Used to be Arizona Precision:
http://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com/Products.html
Have two of his Varminter handles. Strong and well made, install is threaded on both ends.
That said, it permanently mods the bolt handle
I pick my Bolt up from these guys tomorrow. Funny world we live in now, a guy from South Florida recommends a guy to me that is 6 miles from my house via M4Carbine. Thanks for the connection, I went and looked at his shop and work- excellent.
I can't wait to see it. Drop the FAT wrench off to me on your way!!
Definitely not a necessity. Although the the Sniper's Hide crowd may say otherwise.
I went with Badger on both my knobs mainly because GAP uses them and they built my custom .308 and did work on my .300WM.
If I was going to do it again, I might look for a one-piece replacement.
IIRC, the stock bolt knob must be cut down and threaded to install the Badger.
I really wanted to see these guys work before I sent it off, or dropped it off in my case. Their website does not do their knobs justice. Also, they can cerakote in any color you like. He did my entire handle,even though it was not critical, would have been fine even though not matched perfect. As I said, I will post pics.
Definitely not a necessity.
Definitely is a strong word, when dealing with such a broad issue.
I've not had a rifle that didn't benefit from a knob. The stock handles, especially in the case of a rem700 can be very short when combined with aftermarket stocks. This is very true of the wider ones such as the AICS. The likes of McMillan or Manners generally are a bit thinner, but it is still noticeable.
Another reason I find stock handles lacking in their length is during bolt throw. Often, the end of the handle is right in line with the ocular lens of the optic. In the case of larger scopes, this leads to tearing up the knuckle of my thumb. It also forces me to operate the bolt out on the tip of the knob, and when sweaty or wet, its not that difficult to slip off mid throw. This is especially true when having to work the bolt while moving between two stations of a match, or positional shooting.
Along that same token, often I'll be wearing gloves either due to the rough rocky terrain or the cold. When its cold, wearing thicker gloves to keep my hands from freezing makes bolt manipulation a real chore. This is most notable when coyote hunting and matches... where both situations require very fast follow-up shots to re-engage a miss or to engage additional targets.
So while your statement is correct for some rifles with some stocks in some situations... it is hardly an item that I'd use "definitely not a necessity" to describe.
It is a singular advancement in the form of bolt action rifles that allows the user greater freedom of position and movement when cycling the bolt. It is not just some "fad" that the kids are doing these days. It has real world benefits to some. However, I laughed very much at your snipershide comment, as my take on that crew is very similar to the one you must hold. :)
Definitely is a strong word, when dealing with such a broad issue.
......................
So while your statement is correct for some rifles with some stocks in some situations... it is hardly an item that I'd use "definitely not a necessity" to describe.
I still stand by my statement. The gun will function properly without an aftermarket knob upgrade. An aftermarket bolt knob is an accessory, not a reliability upgrade. I prefer them, that's why I have on both my 700's. The gun will still kill and make little tiny groups on paper with the standard bolt handle, so it's "definitely not a necessity".
dieselgeek
08-24-11, 09:34
I'm w/ okran on this one. You can work the bolt so much faster w/ a badger knob installed. It clears the scope and butler caps much easier.
Now it's all in what you use it for,and with mine I use it for tactical matches, but that's the theme of this sub forum it seems.
I like the way my smith installed mine, it gave me an easy grip on the knob and really improved the throw.
http://i.imgur.com/XjC7x.jpg
Those knobs are nice for sure. But I'm leaving mine alone for now.
Those knobs are nice for sure. But I'm leaving mine alone for now.
Oh come on, it's only another benny, don't be a pussy ;)
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/laninga66/GAPrifle001a.jpg
(even though it's not a necessity)
I know.... I thought I was sitting pretty with a $500 700. Pretty soon it'll snowball into $2500. :eek:
dieselgeek
08-24-11, 10:55
I know.... I thought I was sitting pretty with a $500 700. Pretty soon it'll snowball into $2500. :eek:
Oh mark. I feel you.
Last year I drove up to see my family in KS and do some deer hunting. All I had for a rifle was my AR. So I stopped into bass pro and picked up this funky barrel .308 for $750
I put a leupold mark 4 10x40 LR/T scope on it and grabbed a bipod while I was @ BP.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/first.jpg
Then came a new bipod and butt stock pouch and a stock.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/IMAG0082-1.jpg
THEN... I wanted to to shoot a lil further. so I bought a nightforce NXS
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/dallastt/NXS.jpg
Well then I though I was ready to do a match. Well the lack of DMB and short timed stages ( on top of some nerves) royally ****ed me.
Sooo AICS which had DBM and a new badger knob. I think I'm in around $4K now :) It's gonna happen mark, it's gonna happen.
http://i.imgur.com/XjC7x.jpg
All I had for a rifle was my AR. So I stopped into bass pro and picked up this funky barrel .308 for $750.
Not to hijack this thread too bad, but what kind of groups do you get form that triangle barrel? I know the OEM stock is shit and destroys inherent accuracy, but it looks like you solved that problem.
dieselgeek
08-24-11, 11:06
Not to hijack this thread too bad, but what kind of groups do you get form that triangle barrel? I know the OEM stock is shit and destroys inherent accuracy, but it looks like you solved that problem.
This is a .304 MOA 3 shot group @ 500 yards After seeing this, I set up that bottle and smoked it on the first shot. I'd say it's consistently getting .5 MOA groups, and when I do my part I can get it under that. My best groups end up being .3 to .4 MOA.
http://i.imgur.com/K4xRn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ht7f5.jpg
An aftermarket bolt knob is an accessory, not a reliability upgrade.
Actually... that is exactly what it is. Without it, under certain circumstances, you cannot reliably cycle your bolt. Simple as that. By your definition, every aftermarket part in existence, including stocks and triggers are "accessories." All of them change the "function" of the rifle or the "reliability." That is why we put them on in the first place. Well, OK, some people put them on just to make their rifle look more "snipery." (see snipershide reference or your original post) ;)
However, virtually everything we add to these rifles makes them either function more reliably, or enhances accuracy.
Is a big bolt knob needed? No. So if that is your singular point. I agree.
However, bolt knobs are wanted for the same reasons stocks, triggers, bases, bipods, slings, and everything else we stick on a rifle after its purchase is needed; They help us hit our damn target every time or operate the rifle in the fashion we prefer every time. Reliably, and consistently.
So again the "definitely not a necessity" statement would ENTIRELY depend upon the role the rifle is being used in. Because I guarantee you the first coyote double you let slip or the first match stage you stumble in that costs you the match due to your bolt work not being sound as a result of your thumb getting knocked off the bolt handle because it slammed into your ocular bell or illumination adjustment (huge problem for left handed shooters)... you'll definitely think its a necessity after that!
I'm finding it strange that you argue against it, and don't spend any time listing the benefits, yet have them on your rifles. :meeting:
Oh
It's gonna happen mark, it's gonna happen.
I hear that Nightforce calling.
deadly0311
08-24-11, 21:33
The Badger bolt knob (or any other for that matter) is a double edged sword.
It does have inherent benefits, giving more leverage, surface area to grab, more times than none extending the handle length, and it looks snipery.
The downsides are it gives more leverage on a relatively weak joint in the bolt, it exaggerates the weak spots along the handle itself, if not done right it drastically weakens the bolt.
I think the better mousetrap is a one piece bolt. It is going to be much stronger and less prone to a failure.
Now for being able to work the bolt faster, its all about repetition with what you have. If you are good with a factory 700 knob and can run it hard, by all means you will be faster than the guy who shoots 3 or 4 times a year with that sniper rifle :rolleyes: with the bolt knob.
I have had some on guns and none on others. I shoot my long range guns enough to be comfortable with both. I think right now the Kinetic Research Group knob for the 700 is tits, its cheap, doesn't create a weak point in the handle. But a bolt knob does have its benefits and drawbacks. You have to decide what you need or want. But is it needed????? Nope. Does it help???? Yep. Can you live without one and be just as fast????? Most definitely
Can you live without one and be just as fast????? Most definitely
I'd love to see you shoot video and prove this... when wearing winter gloves. :)
deadly0311
08-24-11, 22:46
Considering its 100 degrees here right now I can assure you it wont be tomorrow :rolleyes: but to keep you happy I will.......
Funny the guys are extremely slow with that itty bitty 700 knob......go elsewhere before you get proven wrong again Orkan.......
Orkan play close attention to the shooter in the foreground from about 1:00min-1:15mins......... ;)
/snip
You know what... to hell with it. I should've know better to even start with the snipershide types.
We were having a good laugh at this debate last night! :jester:
This is a .304 MOA 3 shot group @ 500 yards After seeing this, I set up that bottle and smoked it on the first shot. I'd say it's consistently getting .5 MOA groups, and when I do my part I can get it under that. My best groups end up being .3 to .4 MOA.
http://i.imgur.com/K4xRn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ht7f5.jpg
I wondered about these rifles as well. Good to hear it shoots well. Does the muzzle stay down with those ports? It's interesting, a custom gun maker told me recently with today's Mfg processes, you would have to be bad goofy to make a gun that doesn't shoot well. Hell, you can buy a $500 rifle that guarantees sub-moa.
It seems the week link is the stocks, triggers or glass. Most barrels are kick ass.
It seems the week link is the stocks, triggers or glass. Most barrels are kick ass.
Nope. The weak link is the shooter! :)
deadly0311
08-25-11, 22:49
/snip
You know what... to hell with it. I should've know better to even start with the snipershide types.
Again, you picked one part of my post where I clearly explain both the benefit and downfall of the bolt knob....also you must have missed the part where I said I have them on some guns and then some guns without them.....you and I have long since not gotten along, yet you chose to take a dig at me as if your bolt knob will make you a better shooter. Did you see the part where i stated that it gives you more surface area???? That means that when you have your big winter gloves on there is more to grab on to......it all comes down to getting out and practicing of which I do quite frequently, so I would gladly put my bolt running skills without a knob up against yours with a bolt knob
It has nothing to do with Snipershide or anything else.....remember as I am sure you have heard this before "its the indian not the arrow"
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.