LMT 16 or Sabre middy upper

[carbinero]

Cost looks within about $50, and everything I've read says they're both top notch. However there's one line which says, "Buy LMT (or Colt)," and the other says, "All my new 16's will be middys." So which is it? I bought a used stopgap (a 16" carbine) to learn on while I sort out which to drop the big chunk of cash on.

[WS6]

Cost looks within about $50, and everything I've read says they're both top notch. However there's one line which says, "Buy LMT (or Colt)," and the other says, "All my new 16's will be middys." So which is it? I bought a used stopgap (a 16" carbine) to learn on while I sort out which to drop the big chunk of cash on.

Without reguard for quality differences (if any) between LMT/COLT/SDI, the mid-length gas system is superior on paper.

In reality, they both seem to work.

Chamber pressure during extraction as well as impact on the bolt will be lower with the mid length though.

I.E. maybe the bolt will last 7K instead of 6K (realm of theory and "ricer math" here though).

[Failure2Stop]

I like middies, but I have no problems with carbine gas either.

Considering picking up an LMT enhanced BGC.

I find that the midlength systems "hit" softer (softer initial recoil impulse?) than the carbine's do, but not always. With FSB length handguards or rail systems I find that the carbine swings a little faster and stops a little surer. This all changes depending on yor chosen setup.

I would recommend trying them both out and seeing what you like better.

[comp1911]

Personally I'd go 14.5" LMT. If 16, go middy.

[rubberneck]

Without reguard for quality differences (if any) between LMT/COLT/SDI, the mid-length gas system is superior on paper.

In reality, they both seem to work.

Chamber pressure during extraction as well as impact on the bolt will be lower with the mid length though.

I.E. maybe the bolt will last 7K instead of 6K (realm of theory and "ricer math" here though).

At the risk of insulting you, do you really think you should be dispensing advice on which rifle to buy? IIRC in another post recently you were talking about buying your first rifle. If I have you confused with someone else accept my apologies in advance.

[Heavy Metal]

I want to know where he did his metalurgical analysis.

Reed Knight said in another thread that bolts should be lasting 10K minimus in a semi-auto non-suppressed carbine gas system. Pardon me if I give him more weight.

I doubt the relationship between the middy and the carbine gas systems are linear. I suspect those two extra inches move bolt longevity far closer to the full length rifle than the carbine side of the equation.

[WS6]

At the risk of insulting you, do you really think you should be dispensing advice on which rifle to buy? IIRC in another post recently you were talking about buying your first rifle. If I have you confused with someone else accept my apologies in advance.

No insult taken. I am propogating onformation from others who have more experience than I do as most experienced people who I have seen comment on the topic feel the mid length is superior for the reasons I stated. The chamber pressure is a fact, taken from the fact pages in the technical forum.

Here are my sources:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3807
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=94

I feel that they support everything I said. Again, propogating the wisdom of those who know more than I on the topic. My only opinion was the bolt-breakage which I clearly stated was in the realm of theory. Yes 5-10K is where they break in testing I have read, mainly for military though and the testing was during the testing of the "shot counter".

I have no opinion on the matter other than the Carbine has more kick than the rifle as I went and shot a few of my dad's carbines the other day. Compared that to his 6601 and yeah, more kick. I assume the middy is somewhere in the middle, but since I DONT KNOW, I will refrain from saying so. If I was wrong in what I stated though, feel free to correct as there are others (you included?) who know more on the topic.

PS. Just because someone does not own something, does not mean they are ignorant of it. By the same token, ownership does not = knowledge. And thus I found out the latter after buying a $800 aluminum honeycomb wakeboard in highschool. Ownership did not = skill, sadly :(

[Tom_Jones]

deleted

[WS6]

From the m4carbine.net FAQ:



The rule I try to follow is that I have two ears and one mouth and that they should be used in that ratio.

I figured I could get away with quoting common knowledge without attributing a source. At least, that is what I was always taught in college. If the information is common and there are many sources (such as if I were to say "Alaska is the northernmost state".) then it need not be attributed. The information I gave is quite common (down to the point of being common sense if you understand rudementary physics). In the future though, I will list all sources, or find a source to support me, even if I view the information as trivial, others may not. Thanks for pointing out my error.

[UVvis]

Most of my guns are mid length guns. My reasons might be a little different, but I have slightly longer arms and like to hold the gun farther forward. Where I want to hold a carbine happen to be the hot FSB. Having 2" extra handguard is helpful for me.

I also figured that if I am going to have a 16" gun, why not try to get any advantages that may exist with a mid length gun. I also didn't want to have to deal with a 14.5" barrel and permanent fixing of muzzle devices.

Plus there is the aesthetic aspect, a 16" mid length gun looks nicer to me than a 16" carbine, and I'm not to fond of the barrel cut on the M4.

[offroad_nomad]

Ok, now I'm confused. I just read this and haven't had a chance to search, but what's the difference between the two: 16" mid length vs. 16" carbine?

**Edit **
I've since had a chance to search and I've found my answer here: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5518

Thanks.


Plus there is the aesthetic aspect, a 16" mid length gun looks nicer to me than a 16" carbine, and I'm not to fond of the barrel cut on the M4.

[carbinero]

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm pretty well read (for a noob) on the tech features, so I guess specifically I'm more interested in the brands. If I had the opportunity to shoot carbine vs middy, that would obviously help on the recoil/sight radius issues...but I'll just trust both would be improved with the middy.

I planned on CMMG's lightweight middy until I noted SDI's gov't middy is "only" $100 more, which includes a $130 BCG of my choosing, forged CH with PRI tac latch, and SDI's reputed superior barrel. Although I've read of the various issues with CMMG; SDI isn't infallible, but it sounds like fewer lemons.

HOWEVER, I respect the numerous "smart guys" who are sticking with LMT/Colt carbines, and I thought perhaps I'd be better off going this direction. My current AR came with YHM lightweight FF rails, so I thought I could ask my LMT vendor (ummm, Grant) to swap those out before stowing/selling the previous AR. I don't have enough experience to say whether this should be a purchasing criteria (feel free to comment), however I would not spend the extra bucks to purchase a midlength FF rail for the SDI if I went that route.

I had hoped to find out about another GTG company offering a more affordable middy to help with the decision, but I haven't found it yet. So I'm still asking questions...

[WS6]

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm pretty well read (for a noob) on the tech features, so I guess specifically I'm more interested in the brands. If I had the opportunity to shoot carbine vs middy, that would obviously help on the recoil/sight radius issues...but I'll just trust both would be improved with the middy.

I planned on CMMG's lightweight middy until I noted SDI's gov't middy is "only" $100 more, which includes a $130 BCG of my choosing, forged CH with PRI tac latch, and SDI's reputed superior barrel. Although I've read of the various issues with CMMG; SDI isn't infallible, but it sounds like fewer lemons.

HOWEVER, I respect the numerous "smart guys" who are sticking with LMT/Colt carbines, and I thought perhaps I'd be better off going this direction. My current AR came with YHM lightweight FF rails, so I thought I could ask my LMT vendor (ummm, Grant) to swap those out before stowing/selling the previous AR. I don't have enough experience to say whether this should be a purchasing criteria (feel free to comment), however I would not spend the extra bucks to purchase a midlength FF rail for the SDI if I went that route.

I had hoped to find out about another GTG company offering a more affordable middy to help with the decision, but I haven't found it yet. So I'm still asking questions...


FWIW, based on the posts of others, in all of my research; noone has had anything bad to say about the Colt 6920.

[carbinero]

Well, I've read a LOT negative about Colt, just not re: reliability. For the sake of discussion, I'd just as soon stick to LMT in the car-gas dep't.

[G19Tony]

I've read all the threads, done the research and decided on a Sabre Defence 16in mid. If my MIAD comes in today, the lower will be finished and I'll be pushing pins. :D