View Full Version : Are Fail-Zero BCG's the same quality as BCM/DD/Colt?
Chris17404
08-23-11, 18:18
Hi all,
Like the title says... are Fail-Zero BCG's the same quality as BCM/DD/Colt? If a Fail-Zero BCG cost the same as one of these, would it be a toss-up as to which to buy in your mind? Thanks.
Chris
I think the spikes BCG with the Fail zero coating is just as good....But it is pricey http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/bolt-carrier-group-spikes-nickel-boron-hptmpi-m16-bcg-556-p-388.html
GermanSynergy
08-23-11, 23:09
I think the spikes BCG with the Fail zero coating is just as good....But it is pricey http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/bolt-carrier-group-spikes-nickel-boron-hptmpi-m16-bcg-556-p-388.html
Have your tried both the FZ and Spike's?
I think the spikes BCG with the Fail zero coating is just as good....But it is pricey http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/bolt-carrier-group-spikes-nickel-boron-hptmpi-m16-bcg-556-p-388.html
"Just as good" usually isn't. Spikes has shown numerous times in the past that they are extremely capable of producing sub standard equipment. To the OP- I would much rather have a DD/BCM bolt carrier group than anything made by spikes. You may want to look at WMD guns new NiB coated bcg. The specs on their site looks like the numbers you would expect from a good bcg. Or buy a BCM/ DD bcg and send it to WMD to be coated.
I have a FZ and multiple BCM BCG's. As long as my BCG's are lubed, I have not seen a difference in performance other than it's easier to clean the FZ. I've put about 2000 rounds on the FZ in the past 6 months. I like it, but it's nothing that I'd go out of my way to replace any of my other BCG's with.
I've run the FZ unsuppressed, without lube with no problems. Not a common practice for me though.
My BCM's have never given me any problems as long as I've lubed them, suppressed or unsuppressed.
Don't know if that helps or not. Is it worth the Price difference? Meh, Lubes cheap.
"Just as good" usually isn't. Spikes has shown numerous times in the past that they are extremely capable of producing sub standard equipment. To the OP- I would much rather have a DD/BCM bolt carrier group than anything made by spikes. You may want to look at WMD guns new NiB coated bcg. The specs on their site looks like the numbers you would expect from a good bcg. Or buy a BCM/ DD bcg and send it to WMD to be coated.
The only difference between a Spikes BCG and a Colt BCG is the bolt itself, Spikes doesn't test 100% of their bolts. Please reference "the chart" for this data. The carriers specs are otherwise a wash between the two.
I do agree with the later part from above and if you are really worried you can always buy a BCM/COLT/DD BCG and ship it to FZ for them to EXO-coat...if its good enough for Mr. Costa it will be good enough for you: http://www.failzero.com/action-reports/17-exo-coated-knights-armament-bcg-with-3500-rounds-unlubricated-used-by-chris-costa-in-vickers-tactical-class-shootout.html
As for the price part of your question you can pick up a FZ BCG from their site for $265 while a new FA BCG from Colt is $285.50 (no nifty exo coating just phosphate).
Because some one will ask I have a Colt, LMT and Spikes FA phosphate BCG...not one has given me any issues to date (knock on wood). I run an average of 50 rounds out of each a week and all 3 have been to several appleseed shoots. But this doesn't get me any points/personal knowledge on exo coating bolts, but it ties in nicely to: What you really need to ask yourself is why do you need FZ BCG - are you not going to be able to lube it for some reason, are you running suppressed a lot. If you read the reviews about FZ even though people run it once or twice without lube to test most generally lube it anyways.
Good luck on you decision!!!!
$285 for a colt bcg? Wow, they have them on their own site for $180 plus shipping with F/A carrier. I have the spikes FZ bcg and it's been great, it's stamped HPT/MPI on the bolt but I guess according to others they just put their time and $$ into that stamp rather than actually test their bolts(yeah right). You know I've seen some people badmouth spikes and then those same individuals feel confident enough in those products to sell them or maybe they don't really care what they sell as long as someone is looking to buy it. I paid $221 with free shipping for my Bcg and I'd say it was worth it as it does function w/o lube, for how long? I don't know. I can't say as I would buy another one as it is not cost effective for me at this time. I am currently looking at a DD or BCM for my current build but I trust in spikes enough to get one of their standard BCG's for $30-$40 less than BCM or DD.
The only difference between a Spikes BCG and a Colt BCG is the bolt itself, Spikes doesn't test 100% of their bolts. Please reference "the chart" for this data. The carriers specs are otherwise a wash between the two.
I think you underestimate the importance of this step.
Hi all,
Like the title says... are Fail-Zero BCG's the same quality as BCM/DD/Colt? If a Fail-Zero BCG cost the same as one of these, would it be a toss-up as to which to buy in your mind? Thanks.
Chris
No.
C4
$285 for a colt bcg? Wow, they have them on their own site for $180 plus shipping with F/A carrier. I have the spikes FZ bcg and it's been great, it's stamped HPT/MPI on the bolt but I guess according to others they just put their time and $$ into that stamp rather than actually test their bolts(yeah right). You know I've seen some people badmouth spikes and then those same individuals feel confident enough in those products to sell them or maybe they don't really care what they sell as long as someone is looking to buy it. I paid $221 with free shipping for my Bcg and I'd say it was worth it as it does function w/o lube, for how long? I don't know. I can't say as I would buy another one as it is not cost effective for me at this time. I am currently looking at a DD or BCM for my current build but I trust in spikes enough to get one of their standard BCG's for $30-$40 less than BCM or DD.
I stand corrected the Colt BCG's are selling for the price point you have stated above off their own website, I will have to talk to my local dealer as his are still marked with my above quoted price :(.
To kwelz - I simply stated the carriers were a wash and that the bolts were not tested as were the other brands...I am not underestimating anything and please don't read beyond what I wrote. I was simply stating the similarities and differences between them.
I stand corrected the Colt BCG's are selling for the price point you have stated above off their own website, I will have to talk to my local dealer as his are still marked with my above quoted price :(.
We sell Colt M16 BCG's for $179 as well (FYI).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=M16_BCG
C4
philipeggo
08-24-11, 12:01
Not to derail this but almost off of the spikes hate seems to come from their poor customer service in the past not from their products . Im picking up a LW upper from them soon , can you reference a product that you were not happy with ?
"Just as good" usually isn't. Spikes has shown numerous times in the past that they are extremely capable of producing sub standard equipment. To the OP- I would much rather have a DD/BCM bolt carrier group than anything made by spikes. You may want to look at WMD guns new NiB coated bcg. The specs on their site looks like the numbers you would expect from a good bcg. Or buy a BCM/ DD bcg and send it to WMD to be coated.
We sell Colt M16 BCG's for $179 as well (FYI).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=M16_BCG
C4
Sir if you were local you would have to create a specific loitering sign just for me :D
Sir if you were local you would have to create a specific loitering sign just for me :D
What is funny is that MAJORTITY of the locals around me have no interest in what I sell.
Imagine having a C3 dealer that stocks:
Colt
S&W
DD
BCM
Noveske
Magpul
LT
ADM
Bobro
BFG
Trijicon
Aimpoint
Benchmade
SureFire
FNH
Troy
BattleComp
Tango Down
VLTOR
We can repair/fix your AR, have all the small parts to build AR's from scratch AND do not rape you on prices or charge for installation of most things. We also conduct FREE Defensive Pistol and Carbine classes once a month at the local gun club as a community outreach program. ;)
You would most likely buy the house next door to me and never leave. :D
C4
AND do not rape you on prices or charge for installation of most things.
C4
Wait wait wait, so there's still a possibility I could be raped :eek:
Wait wait wait, so there's still a possibility I could be raped :eek:
Well, maybe you. ;)
C4
What is funny is that MAJORTITY of the locals around me have no interest in what I sell.
Imagine having a C3 dealer that stocks:
<snip>
We can repair/fix your AR, have all the small parts to build AR's from scratch AND do not rape you on prices or charge for installation of most things. We also conduct FREE Defensive Pistol and Carbine classes once a month at the local gun club as a community outreach program. ;)
You would most likely buy the house next door to me and never leave. :D
C4
Yeah... I was getting excited when you were talking about buying property in my area...
Chris17404
08-24-11, 12:38
No.
C4
Hi Grant... can you further explain why you answered no? Just looking to learn. Thanks.
Well, maybe you. ;)
Nah, you hooked me up on those two 6920's and a PS90... you're all talk ;)
Hi Grant... can you further explain why you answered no? Just looking to learn. Thanks.
Sure. FZ does not follow the TDP on their Bolts (for sure) and maybe not on the carriers, firing pin, cam pin, etc as well.
C4
Nah, you hooked me up on those two 6920's and a PS90... you're all talk ;)
Damn. Busted (again).
C4
Yeah... I was getting excited when you were talking about buying property in my area...
We are still looking at the Blue Ridge Mts and will most likely buy land there in the next 1-2 years with a move in date in 5-8yrs.
C4
Hi Grant... can you further explain why you answered no? Just looking to learn. Thanks.
Not Grant, but I do own LMT/Colt/CMT/FZ bolt carrier groups. I believe you would be better off getting an LMT/Colt/DD/BCM bolt carrier group coated with nickle boron. I don't thing there is any info available on where FZ sources their BCG parts. At least if you buy a quality LMT (my favorite), or other quality BCG that is properly tested, you know what you have.
FWIW, I only own one FZ BCG and I like it, but I would rather buy two LMT/BCM/DD bolt carrier groups before I buy another $300 BCG.
Chris17404
08-24-11, 12:46
Sure. FZ does not follow the TDP on their Bolts (for sure) and maybe not on the carriers, firing pin, cam pin, etc as well.
C4
Thank you. It seems if I wanted a TDP-spec BCG, I should just get a BCM/DD/Colt and send it in for coating.
Thank you. It seems if I wanted a TDP-spec BCG, I should just get a BCM/DD/Colt and send it in for coating.
Chris,
Not sure how much money you make or how many AR's you have but my advice would be to buy a quality BCG, then buy a repair kit (spare gas rings, extra firing pin, extractor, extractor spring/insert, maybe event an extra bolt and gas key with screws). After you have that stuff, the coating wont hurt anything but your wallet.
The coating is cool for sure, but it wont hold steel together if your bolt shears lugs (or worse). The US Mil. has been getting along without this coating for decades...
Thank you. It seems if I wanted a TDP-spec BCG, I should just get a BCM/DD/Colt and send it in for coating.
;)
C4
Wow, all these posts just to decide to do what I suggested in the first few posts. :D
Grant,
Being stupid, where are you located? You make it sound like candyland.
We are still looking at the Blue Ridge Mts and will most likely buy land there in the next 1-2 years with a move in date in 5-8yrs.
C4
Just come on down here to North GA! You'd love the Blue Ridge / Hiawasse area.
SomeOtherGuy
08-24-11, 17:01
What is funny is that MAJORTITY of the locals around me have no interest in what I sell.
Imagine having a C3 dealer that stocks:
Colt
S&W
DD
BCM
Noveske
Magpul
LT
ADM
Bobro
BFG
Trijicon
Aimpoint
Benchmade
SureFire
FNH
Troy
BattleComp
Tango Down
VLTOR
We can repair/fix your AR, have all the small parts to build AR's from scratch AND do not rape you on prices or charge for installation of most things. We also conduct FREE Defensive Pistol and Carbine classes once a month at the local gun club as a community outreach program. ;)
You would most likely buy the house next door to me and never leave. :D
C4
Move up to Michigan please. I don't shop much with local storefront dealers since most of them around here carry both Remington AND Bushmaster ARs, and want $1200 for either one. Truglo red dots are the bomb, or you can buy a $1400 ACOG (few of the purchasers have a clue what do with one). One local dealer actually seems to have an LMT in stock most of the time (one, exactly), but I can't tell if they actually know what they have, or why they have it.
Fortunately a close friend has an FFL for anything requiring a transfer, and direct mail-order supplies everything else.
Grant,
Being stupid, where are you located? You make it sound like candyland.
Northeast Ohio.
C4
Just come on down here to North GA! You'd love the Blue Ridge / Hiawasse area.
I like GA. Hell I like all of the South.
C4
Northeast Ohio.
C4
Move to the Cincinnati area and I'll spend all my money at your shop :D
Move to the Cincinnati area and I'll spend all my money at your shop :D
LOL, I am not really concerned about people spending money in my store. It is just nice to have people around that appreciate what we offer.
No offense, but I do not care for Cinci (or any other major cities in Ohio). I want out of Ohio for no other reason than the crappy ass weather.
C4
LOL, I am not really concerned about people spending money in my store. It is just nice to have people around that appreciate what we offer.
No offense, but I do not care for Cinci (or any other major cities in Ohio). I want out of Ohio for no other reason than the crappy ass weather.
C4
No offense taken. Cincinnati is the suck, I feel like I always have to look behind my back downtown. The weather is terrible, it's always extremes of something. Mostly sheer humidity...
LOL, I am not really concerned about people spending money in my store. It is just nice to have people around that appreciate what we offer.
No offense, but I do not care for Cinci (or any other major cities in Ohio). I want out of Ohio for no other reason than the crappy ass weather.
C4
Move to FL. I grew up in N.KY/Cincinnati, and the only thing that ever gave me more grief than the weather was the Bengals. Not only do we have much better weather, we have TONS of gun loving people. Not only would you fill up your store with customers, I could probably staff your entire storefront and shipping/receiving department with experienced personnel. ;)
2theXtreme
08-25-11, 02:37
Now that you know what BCG to buy...we can take this post elsewhere...Grant! Move to Las Vegas!:lol:
wetidlerjr
08-25-11, 06:57
What is funny is that MAJORTITY of the locals around me have no interest in what I sell...We can repair/fix your AR, have all the small parts to build AR's from scratch AND do not rape you on prices or charge for installation of most things. We also conduct FREE Defensive Pistol and Carbine classes once a month at the local gun club as a community outreach program. ;)
You would most likely buy the house next door to me and never leave. :D
C4
Central Indiana is an AR desert unless you are into UTG and being told that DPMS is good to go. I would be in bankruptcy if I lived within a 100 miles of your store. :laugh:
Chris17404
08-25-11, 07:43
LOL, I am not really concerned about people spending money in my store. It is just nice to have people around that appreciate what we offer.
No offense, but I do not care for Cinci (or any other major cities in Ohio). I want out of Ohio for no other reason than the crappy ass weather.
C4
Grant... move to South Central Pennsylvania. We love our guns down here and would warmly welcome you!
No offense taken. Cincinnati is the suck, I feel like I always have to look behind my back downtown. The weather is terrible, it's always extremes of something. Mostly sheer humidity...
The closest I have come to pulling a gun out and shooting someone has always beein Cinci (has happened three times to me now).
I get to come down there when S&W does training with Cinci SWAT. I don't wear body armor on their range, but when I leave their range, I put soft armor on. :D
C4
Now that you know what BCG to buy...we can take this post elsewhere...Grant! Move to Las Vegas!:lol:
I am down with the Western US as well. About the only places that I won't live in is from Ohio over and up (Yankee States) and West Coast.
C4
Grant... move to South Central Pennsylvania. We love our guns down here and would warmly welcome you!
Sorry, PA weather sucks like Ohio's does. Having lived 10yrs in the South, it is hard to like the cold again.:D
C4
Sorry, PA weather sucks like Ohio's does. Having lived 10yrs in the South, it is hard to like the cold again.:D
My first winter in Columbus was a hard shift from Wilmington NC, let me tell you.
Head south young man. Enjoy doing business with you little closer to home. I'll be contacting you at the end of next month, I have a new project, and would like input.
Head south young man. Enjoy doing business with you little closer to home. I'll be contacting you at the end of next month, I have a new project, and would like input.
;)
C4
QuietShootr
08-25-11, 13:00
Central Indiana is an AR desert unless you are into UTG and being told that DPMS is good to go. I would be in bankruptcy if I lived within a 100 miles of your store. :laugh:
wet, as usual, you're out of your mind.
There is at least one place here that has ALL those things Grant referenced.
TacticalSledgehammer
08-25-11, 17:19
Move to FL. I grew up in N.KY/Cincinnati, and the only thing that ever gave me more grief than the weather was the Bengals. Not only do we have much better weather, we have TONS of gun loving people. Not only would you fill up your store with customers, I could probably staff your entire storefront and shipping/receiving department with experienced personnel. ;)
Do they have skyline in FL?
The only difference between a Spikes BCG and a Colt BCG is the bolt itself, Spikes doesn't test 100% of their bolts. Please reference "the chart" for this data. The carriers specs are otherwise a wash between the two.
Good luck on you decision!!!!
Long time reader/learner, first post. For the sake of accurate information, from the thread on the new chart there were some questions raised about the "1" in the Spikes MPI Bolt column.
Per Rob S,
"The Spike's "1" issue was a column formatting thing and should be corrected now if you refresh.
__________________
WWW.TACTICALYELLOWVISOR.NET"
It was supposed to be 100% Apparently the formatting issue was not corrected.
I'd also like to thank everyone for the valuable knowlege that I have gained from this Forum.
Respectfully,
Steve
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