View Full Version : EOTECH Failure...pictures included.
It appears the battery terminal problem with their battery compartments on in-line (old style) models still has not been fixed. I should have used Kyle Defoor's solution, I suppose.
It's a 557 AA battery model. The reticle cut out randomly toward the end of a shooting session. Thinking the batteries were dead and being pretty much done anyway, I packed it up and went home. Upon opening the battery compartment back at the house, I found that the Energizer AA's were busted and leaking. The battery terminals in the battery box also fell out with the batteries (common problem with EOTECH's). It seems that they came lose during firing but were still allowing the sight to get power. I believe that the AA's ruptured and subsequently destroyed the internals of the sight because they were being violently thrashed around due to the loose terminals. The battery fluid then ate the rubber seals on the sight itself, permeating the internals of the optic.
I have a claim in with L-3. I have requested that they replace the 557 with an XPS model, as I have lost confidence in all EOTECH products that use in-line battery configurations. I've had this happen on older military issued 552's as well. EOTECH claimed to have fixed this some years ago, but apparently they have not. We'll see what they say.
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joshua79109
08-24-11, 16:19
Clearly it is the paint job that caused the issue.
Kidding of course, I hope it all works out for you. I've never tried the EoTech line so I have no experience with this. I've never had an issue like this with and of my Aimpoints though.
Good luck
Looks more like battery failure than EOTech failure. Stick with Lithium AA's to avoid these types of issues.
This is quite common especially with the older 552's. I had over 300 in my armory when I arrived back in Iraq 2007 and over 70 of them were INOP due to various things like this. Didn't matter what batteries were used.
Looks more like battery failure than EOTech failure. Stick with Lithium AA's to avoid these types of issues.
Agree and disagree. If the springs/rubber cylinders in the battery box had not failed, I don't believe the batteries would have leaked.
Although, you may be correct that had I in fact been using lithiums, I would not be replacing an entire site right now...just a battery box.
Regardless, even if I had been using lithiums, the optic still wouldn't have been working when I needed it to be...and that is the salient point here.
That's why I got an aimpoint.:dance3:
That's why I got an aimpoint.:dance3:
Like most people on M4C, I've used Aimpoints and Eotechs and various other optics in both personal and professional applications. This is not my only red dot sight. I do believe that Aimpoints are vastly more durable than any other RDS out there...and because of this I put them on my work rifles. I do, however, enjoy owning and using EOTECH's as well. Why? Because I can. But thanks for telling me that you got an Aimpoint. I'm very happy for you.
This is quite common especially with the older 552's. I had over 300 in my armory when I arrived back in Iraq 2007 and over 70 of them were INOP due to various things like this. Didn't matter what batteries were used.
Agreed, the pics are consistent with the repeated failures of our SOPMOD kitted M4's with Eotech 552's. We send 3-5 back to our "depot" every month for repair. What battery used is irrelevant.
If they're replacing the junky old EOtechs with XPS's when they break, I'm going to get some trashed EOtechs for cheap and sell the replacements so I can buy some more Aimpoints.
Although, you may be correct that had I in fact been using lithiums, I would not be replacing an entire site right now...just a battery box.
The hell you wouldn't. Lithiums are more caustic...though that's admittedly different in the same way getting eaten by a bear is different from getting eaten by a tiger -- yer still getting eaten..., and there's no palpable difference in between the structural integrity of an alkaline and a lithium battery of the same size and equivalent quality.
If cracked and leaking, lithiums are at risk to combust, especially if water is introduced.
One'd get more life out of lithiums, but if it's a crap battery or if the box is bad and contributing to cracking them, you're not doing yourself any favors in deliberately choosing lithiums on the basis of them being somehow stronger or less likely to screw up their surroundings.
I'm also thinking crap battery, in your case. Their strength is longitudinal, so the impulse isn't likely to do that unless they were bad to begin with.
As for the buffers and springs...I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. They NEVER fixed those things, they sent out repair kits...made of the same shit rubber and metal... and told owning agencies to fix them themselves.
If you end up with an XPS, put some electrician's tape around the middle of your 123As. Batteries are not strong along the short axis, and maybe putting your own buffer on the battery will help keep it from getting cracked, since EO couldn't be bothered to do it. A transverse battery box isn't a sovereign cure if you don't isolate the battery correctly, as was done with the PVS-24A and the PVS-27.
This is quite common especially with the older 552's. I had over 300 in my armory when I arrived back in Iraq 2007 and over 70 of them were INOP due to various things like this. Didn't matter what batteries were used.
Wow, that's a serious failure rate.
The hell you wouldn't. Lithiums are more caustic...though that's admittedly different in the same way getting eaten by a bear is different from getting eaten by a tiger -- yer still getting eaten..., and there's no palpable difference in between the structural integrity of an alkaline and a lithium battery of the same size and equivalent quality.
If cracked and leaking, lithiums are at risk to combust, especially if water is introduced.
One'd get more life out of lithiums, but if it's a crap battery or if the box is bad and contributing to cracking them, you're not doing yourself any favors in deliberately choosing lithiums on the basis of them being somehow stronger or less likely to screw up their surroundings.
I'm also thinking crap battery, in your case. Their strength is longitudinal, so the impulse isn't likely to do that unless they were bad to begin with.
As for the buffers and springs...I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. They NEVER fixed those things, they sent out repair kits...made of the same shit rubber and metal... and told owning agencies to fix them themselves.
If you end up with an XPS, put some electrician's tape around the middle of your 123As. Batteries are not strong along the short axis, and maybe putting your own buffer on the battery will help keep it from getting cracked, since EO couldn't be bothered to do it. A transverse battery box isn't a sovereign cure if you don't isolate the battery correctly, as was done with the PVS-24A and the PVS-27.
According to Energizer their lithium AA's are built to be more leakage resistant than their Alkalines IOT prevent what happens when lithium meets water. But I agree that choosing lithium vs alkaline is not the solution or the problem. The problem is EOTECH's crap battery box. Even if the batteries didn't leak the sight wouldn't have functioned much longer because the damn buffers/springs came loose and would soon fail to make consistent contact.
Thanks for the tip on the 3 volts in the XPS's. I've not messed with the new transverse battery boxed EOTECH's but I've heard of issues with the batteries receiving impulse on that axis as you said.
Agreed, the pics are consistent with the repeated failures of our SOPMOD kitted M4's with Eotech 552's. We send 3-5 back to our "depot" every month for repair. What battery used is irrelevant.
Just curious, how many lithium AA batteries have you guys seen leak and cause this type of damage? Leaking quality lithium batteries are very rare thing. I've never seen Energizer lithiums leak like that.
My exprience with this type of damage has always been caused by a leaking alkaline battery. The contacts in the battery box coming loose and faulty springs are no doubt an EOTech issue but it will cause the sight to blink off during recoil not cause the batteries to leak.
In the pics you can clearly see that battery acid is all over the rubber gasket and even behind base padding that is coming off.
I'm not defending EOTech but I know 99% of military use whats's issued and IIRC, alkalines are what they get. All I'm saying is when it comes to the EOTech using lithium batteries do make a big difference minimizing the known issues they have.
Lastly, those Industrial Energizers like the ones used by the OP are known to be crap batteries and it is really stupid for EOTech to send them out with their new sights...:blink:
Some other reasons to use quality lithium AA batteries.
1. Longer life. Duhh...:p
2. Power output remains more consistent in very high or low temps.
3. 1/3 less weight minimizes recoil induced battery box and contact issues.
Just curious, how many lithium AA batteries have you guys seen leak and cause this type of damage? Leaking lithium batteries are very rare thing. I've never seen Energizer lithiums leak like that.
My exprience with this type of damage has always been caused by a leaking alkaline battery. The contacts in the battery box coming loose and faulty springs are no doubt an EOTech issue but it will cause the sight to blink off during recoil not cause the batteries to leak.
In the pics you can clearly see that battery acid is all over the rubber gasket and even behind base padding that is coming off.
I'm not defending EOTech but I know 99% of military use whats's issued and IIRC, alkalines are what they get. All I'm saying is when it comes to the EOTech using lithium batteries do make a big difference minimizing the known issues they have.
Lastly, those Industrial Energizers like the ones used by the OP are known to be crap batteries and it is really stupid for EOTech to send them out with their new sights...:blink:
Those batteries in my post are actually US Mil supplied batteries. The Energizer Industrials are widely issued and used in the military. I agree, they are crap. Some boxes come and don't work immediately or are already very near dead. We also get Energizer lithiums issued, but they are sometimes hard to acquire. The lithiums are plentiful on deployment but not in training.
Also, I have never seen a lithium AA leak. I've had a couple Kodak CR123's bust up in austere conditions though. Lithium AA batteries are supposedly less prone to leakage by design. I can't tell you why as I'm not in the battery making industry.
J...
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Lastly, those Industrial Energizers like the ones used by the OP are known to be crap batteries and it is really stupid for EOTech to send them out with their new sights...:blink:
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I agree. We have had several nice flashlights at our Plant get ruined because of Ind. Energizers. The Industrial Supply Houses feel they have to stock "industrial" batteries for their industrial customers. And they're just kaa-kaa.
We just make a trip to Wal-Mart once a month and buy fresh alkalines.
I only use lithium batteries in devices that may be sitting a long time before use. To me, that is their main advantage.
But maybe it's jst me...
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Like most people on M4C, I've used Aimpoints and Eotechs and various other optics in both personal and professional applications. This is not my only red dot sight. I do believe that Aimpoints are vastly more durable than any other RDS out there...and because of this I put them on my work rifles. I do, however, enjoy owning and using EOTECH's as well. Why? Because I can. But thanks for telling me that you got an Aimpoint. I'm very happy for you.
You're welcome sir! I'm happy for myself as well. An unfortunate situation for you since your eotech took a dump. What are you going to do with it now?
mkmckinley
08-24-11, 22:15
I've had the battery connectors come loose like that on issued Eotechs before. Twice. I was not happy. When I figured out that the glue holding the rubber piece on had simply come unstuck I was horrified. It seemed like a really cheap, unreliable way to secure a critical component. I now use an Aimpoint Comp M4 and don't expect any problems from it.
Heavy Metal
08-24-11, 22:17
Those free Energizer Industrials you see in the pic? I got some just like it in an EoTech I bought back in 07.
I put Lithiums in the Eo and it is going strong.
I put the Energizer Industrials in a Mini-Mag light.
Guess what happened to the Mini-Mag light over the winter?
I had to drill the rupurted battery out with a drill press.
I BARELY managed to salvage the light.
I bet those shit batteries have caused a ton or returns to EoTech.
Agree and disagree. If the springs/rubber cylinders in the battery box had not failed, I don't believe the batteries would have leaked.
Although, you may be correct that had I in fact been using lithiums, I would not be replacing an entire site right now...just a battery box.
Regardless, even if I had been using lithiums, the optic still wouldn't have been working when I needed it to be...and that is the salient point here.
Just curious, how many lithium AA batteries have you guys seen leak and cause this type of damage? Leaking quality lithium batteries are very rare thing. I've never seen Energizer lithiums leak like that.
My exprience with this type of damage has always been caused by a leaking alkaline battery. The contacts in the battery box coming loose and faulty springs are no doubt an EOTech issue but it will cause the sight to blink off during recoil not cause the batteries to leak.
In the pics you can clearly see that battery acid is all over the rubber gasket and even behind base padding that is coming off.
I'm not defending EOTech but I know 99% of military use whats's issued and IIRC, alkalines are what they get. All I'm saying is when it comes to the EOTech using lithium batteries do make a big difference minimizing the known issues they have.
Lastly, those Industrial Energizers like the ones used by the OP are known to be crap batteries and it is really stupid for EOTech to send them out with their new sights...:blink:
Some other reasons to use quality lithium AA batteries.
1. Longer life. Duhh...:p
2. Power output remains more consistent in very high or low temps.
3. 1/3 less weight minimizes recoil induced battery box and contact issues.
We haven't been tracking the batteries. Our Agents can use whatever AA they get their hands on. We just wish they hadn't cut all of our AUG-P's in half so we could get them back.
variablebinary
08-24-11, 22:34
Aimpoint Pro is a great solution to your Eotech problem
Energizer has covered damages on other electronics due to leaked batts. I would contact them.
Info (http://www.energizer.com/products/alkaline-batteries/faq/Pages/faq.aspx)
13.Is there a guarantee on Energizer® batteries?
The Energizer®/Eveready® guarantee typically states: “We will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by these Energizer® batteries. Guarantee void if batteries are charged by user or device.” Contact 1-800-383-7323. This guarantee may vary globally, so please check with your local Energizer office for details.
I remember that the Eotech's later selected for the SOCOM II block (IIRC) had issues as well. I spoke with one of the Crane guys who was behind the push to get them to address the issues after they claimed there weren't any.
Due to his contacts and help I was later (6 months later) able to get new battery packs and repair kits to fix them all.
I've had the battery connectors come loose like that on issued Eotechs before. Twice. I was not happy. When I figured out that the glue holding the rubber piece on had simply come unstuck I was horrified. It seemed like a really cheap, unreliable way to secure a critical component. I now use an Aimpoint Comp M4 and don't expect any problems from it.
Aimpoint Pro is a great solution to your Eotech problem
Both solid choices.
Failure2Stop
08-25-11, 08:26
I guess Ind Energizers have inadvertantly saved me from themsleves.
Due to their amazingly short life I have had to replace every one I have ever been issued within two or three days.
So, I got a response from EoTECH today. They said:
"Please just mail me the battery compartment to my attention and I will repair and reship the same day.
No RMA will be needed."
Idiots! Yes, it does need a new battery compartment. But is that going to fix the battery fluid soaked internals of the sight? Nope.
After explaining that a new battery box by itself would not fix the problem, they're authorizing an RMA at no charge. Can't really complain too much about the customer service I suppose. Only it shouldn't have broken like that in the first place.
After explaining that a new battery box by itself would not fix the problem, they're authorizing an RMA at no charge. Can't really complain too much about the customer service I suppose. Only it shouldn't have broken like that in the first place.
Glad you got it figured out. Good to hear they have solid customer service.
I put the Energizer Industrials in a Mini-Mag light.
Guess what happened to the Mini-Mag light over the winter?
I had to drill the rupurted battery out with a drill press.
I BARELY managed to salvage the light.
I bet those shit batteries have caused a ton or returns to EoTech.
To lots of vendors. I just lost function in one earcup on my Peltor ear pro because of my own inattention regarding a ser of AAAs I left in them.
Those Energizer Indus. batteries, and whatever brand those black-and-yellow ones DoD buys happens to be, are total garbage. They definitely are a heightened liability in terms of leaving them in a device when stored, and they are the impetus of the unit SOPs in which batteries for ANYthing were replaced prior to going outside the wire.
The piles of partially-expended batteries lying in the middle of team-room tables and in ammo cans would have made a miniature, biohazard Rocky Mountain vista.
Looks more like battery failure than EOTech failure. Stick with Lithium AA's to avoid these types of issues.
I agree.
All of us flashlight fanatics over at Candle Power Forum know that it isn't IF alkalines will leak - just WHEN...
If ya wanna use alkalines - change them out 2x a year - even if you are not running them out of juice... Can they go longer... Yea... But an eotech is an expensive sight - why risk it... Also, depending on heat and other issues, they can leak faster. I also see you had industrial energizers. The specs on those may be made a little looser.
You can't blame the sight for this. Yes, this design of eotech sometimes has contact issues. But leaking is the batteries fault.
You can't blame the sight for this. Yes, this design of eotech sometimes has contact issues. But leaking is the batteries fault.
The leaking part is the battery's fault, yes. But the buffers in the battery box coming lose is all EOTECH. The rubber seal on the sight side terminal being flimsily held together with glue is also the EOTECH's fault. I've pulled plenty of CompM4's out of the arms room that people left batteries in. Guess what, they leaked. But with a little cleaning and a new AA the Aimpoint fires right up. Every time, in my experience. The Eotech did not.
I have an XPS and love the design. It solves any of the contact issues that plagued the older models.
But man, never use akalines. Use lithiums. Even in just a regular flashlight you put in your car for several months. Akalines WILL leak - its just "when."
Heavy Metal
08-25-11, 21:36
The leaking part is the battery's fault, yes. But the buffers in the battery box coming lose is all EOTECH. The rubber seal on the sight side terminal being flimsily held together with glue is also the EOTECH's fault. I've pulled plenty of CompM4's out of the arms room that people left batteries in. Guess what, they leaked. But with a little cleaning and a new AA the Aimpoint fires right up. Every time, in my experience. The Eotech did not.
I would posit the leaking caustic from the failed Alkaline batteries did not do the glue any favors.
rogers0317
08-28-11, 16:58
I wish EO Tech would improve their reliability issues because I do think its a very quick optic.
I have an easy fix: EOtech XPS!
Ok on a more serious note, before ending up buying an XPS I had a 517, my terminals came loose and I realized I was just not gona waste my time doing home remedies on a sight that I would trust my life with. For over a year now I have used an XPS on my patrol rifle. When ever I am given a squad car without a rack I have to throw it in the trunk. So it rides in the trunk about 50% of the time bouncing around. Since I dont believe in keeping the rifle in a bag or case it literally is bouncing around in there a lot. Its got scratches and dings here and there. Zero has been holding up very well. The battery life is great, not Aimpoint great but good enough. After all its a work rifle, I turn it on, 8hrs later when my shift is over it automatically goes out. I have had to change the battery once so far in a bit over a year. Now for My SD home rifle I have a T1 which is always on.
I guess Ind Energizers have inadvertantly saved me from themsleves.
Due to their amazingly short life I have had to replace every one I have ever been issued within two or three days.
This post made me LOL :D
But seriously, I don't run Alkalines in anything except remote controls.
Airborne12b
08-31-11, 10:47
EOtech likely doesn't have a chemical engineer on staff, a such no one verified material compatibility between their adhesive and the specific rubber compound that was selected.
I have to take a closer look inside my Aimpont PRO and see what's going on in the battery compartment.
This discussion about inline batteries makes me wonder why Aimpoint doesn't do the transverse mounting, too. Is it because 1/3N batteries are smaller, so less mass?
But! There's pretty much a similar configuration in the Comp M4's with a AA cell - don't have one handy here to look at; what are AP doing differently that Eotech could "be inspired by" for a solution?
Though I don't have one, I like the looks of the Eotech optics, many co-workers use 'em, and it's unfortunate to hear there are problems with some of them.
Aimpoint uses springs of appropriate material and tension, and buffers of sufficient length and density. Hell, almost TOO much! I'm among the poor saps who, upon purchasing his first AP, inserted the battery and turned the thing on to find NO DOT (WTF!?!?). Turns out I hadn't cranked down on the cap enough...thank you for not laughing at me too loudly, Robb.
Independent but related case: The AN/PVS-17B/C exhibited problems prior to/during OIF1 with the image flickering on and off during belt-fed weapons fire (M249/M240). The problem was backtracked to the batteries losing contact with the leads. The solution was to replace the existing buffer with one slightly longer and denser. Problem solved.
ALL fielded PVS-17Cs in the USMC inventory (the B variant was broomed entirely) was refurbished with the new battery buffer. All new-made optics with a S/N of 8000 or greater came from the factory with the new buffer.
No more flickering, in spite of the battery compartment being along the long axis of the device.
Subsequent NV optics designed to provide NV capability to an existing day optic (AN/PVS-27 SSMRNS, AN/PVS-24A IWNS-I2, and similar) have battery compartments along the vertical short axis of the optic. It's of particular note that the batteries are buffered at the center of or along the entire short axis of the battery of the battery. Take a wild guess at what the XPS series is missing.....
XPS users, put some electricians tape around the centers of your 123As to snug that thing up in the compartment, just not so much that you have real troubles inserting/extracting. I've seen some success with that working for those that have had XPSs consistently crack batteries.
I wish EO Tech would improve their reliability issues ....I think that's the point of the XPS/EXPS line. Jury's still out, but failures appear to be far less common than with the in-line models.
XPS users, put some electricians tape around the centers of your 123As to snug that thing up in the compartment, just not so much that you have real troubles inserting/extracting. I've seen some success with that working for those that have had XPSs consistently crack batteries.
Interesting tip. Using a Surefire lithium CR123, I can't fit any electrician's tape in there between the battery and the wall of the compartment on my EXPS. I can barely get the battery in with some blue painter's tape around half the circumference. Looks like a pretty precise fit to me without the tape, but I did it anyway. Thanks for the info.
Louis Awerbuck, as part of low-light training, strenuously warns about Chinese-made Sanyo CR123's in flashlights. Apparently they have a propensity to explode. Big surprise that China would export a substandard product :rolleyes: .
Team Chuck Norris
09-03-11, 09:46
Has anyone had similar problems with the Eotech 556?
The 556 model uses 2 CR123 batteries.
I specifically chose the 556 model to avoid the AA batteries.
Personally, I have had no reliability problems at all with the 556.
If they're replacing the junky old EOtechs with XPS's when they break, I'm going to get some trashed EOtechs for cheap and sell the replacements so I can buy some more Aimpoints.
Statements like this will surely **** every EoTech owner that has a genuine warranty claim. Stating how you want to screw a manufacture is the answer.....Nice. :rolleyes:
Nope...I have had the Eotech 556.A65/1 since 2008 with surefire batteries in it and never had a problem.
Has anyone had similar problems with the Eotech 556?
The 556 model uses 2 CR123 batteries.
I specifically chose the 556 model to avoid the AA batteries.
Personally, I have had no reliability problems at all with the 556.
You realize of course that he is being a smart ass, right?
Statements like this will surely **** every EoTech owner that has a genuine warranty claim. Stating how you want to screw a manufacture is the answer.....Nice. :rolleyes:
norinco982lover
09-05-11, 16:58
So glue is all that holds them together? Crap...maybe I will get rid of mine too :( I appreciate the pictures!
You realize of course that he is being a smart ass, right?
I knows it....Unless he has a shitload of free time... :lol:
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