View Full Version : The Question you all hate.....
Yes, I know.
Wanting to throw some money at a bolt gun. thinking either a 260rem or 300wm.
dont know which I should go with or why. opinions greatly appreciated.
Let me go ahead and get it out of the way for you;
"Just buy a .308, ammo is easier to get"
"Go back and hit the search button and read 11ty billion threads before asking the question"
"----Other random chest pounding internet warrior comment----"
How dare you ask a question like this! Do you know the"ORANGE SEARCH BUTTON!" :D
Do you reload? Are you looking for something with a crazy sidefolding-polymer-kool-aid dispensing stock? Or more simple.
Does it have to be .300 Win. Mag?
How dare you ask a question like this! Do you know the"ORANGE SEARCH BUTTON!" :D
Do you reload? Are you looking for something with a crazy sidefolding-polymer-kool-aid dispensing stock? Or more simple.
Does it have to be .300 Win. Mag?
Just looking for something flat shooting I can start spending time with @ the range / precision shooting classes. dosent have to be any particular round, but I'd rather not start reloading yet.
no folding stocks. fixed. bipod. optic. done.
I prefer Rem. 700, You didnt mention much so what about this? A buddy has one, shoots pretty good
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/
anyone have any wisdom on the 260 rem?
---Be open minded for one----;)
Maybe tell us what you really want to do with it and some basic expectations in regards to set up --and how much money you want to spend.
I could be wrong, but going with a 260 and not reloading may be an issue.
What kind of distance do you have access to?
---Be open minded for one----;)
Maybe tell us what you really want to do with it and some basic expectations in regards to set up --and how much money you want to spend.
I could be wrong, but going with a 260 and not reloading may be an issue.
What kind of distance do you have access to?
I'd like something I can get proficient with out to about 1000 yds. , which I know will take a good amount of time and effort.
Price is not so much an issue, but I dont want to buy a 10K rifle right out of the box, but I dont want to go the budget route either. Just something well made, with a high end piece of glass on it.
I have access to about as far as anyone can shoot.
Unless you like recoil, or muzzle blast with a MB, or need the bigger bullet for downrange performance get the 260.
If you don't handload consider the 6.5 Creedmoor, not because it does anything better than the 260 but because Hornady match ammo is available and reasonably priced.
Unless you like recoil, or muzzle blast with a MB, or need the bigger bullet for downrange performance get the 260.
If you don't handload consider the 6.5 Creedmoor, not because it does anything better than the 260 but because Hornady match ammo is available and reasonably priced.
This is exactly correct. .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor are extremely similar (dare I even start a brawl by suggesting that for all intents and purposes they are ballistically identical.) The 6.5 Creedmoor has excellent match ammo available for it through Hornady. The .260 is much better suited to someone who reloads, as match grade commercial ammo is much harder to find and more expensive.
For your stated purposes of learning to shoot long range and taking classes I'd much rather be shooting a .260 (or 6.5 Creedmoor) than a .300WM. The external ballistics of the .260 (or 6.5C) will match or beat many .300WM loads, and they'll do it with far less recoil. While I could write pages about this topic, the "shootability" of the .260 (or 6.5C) compared to the .300WM is a significant factor. What I mean by that is over the course of a day whether in a class or in a match or just in the field practicing the much lower recoil of the .260 (or 6.5C) will fatigue you less and let you concentrate much more on making good shots. Further, shooting from any improvised or awkward position will be much easier to accomplish with a rifle that has as little recoil as a .260 (or 6.5C.) If you don't need the terminal ballistic performance of a .300WM then the .260 (or 6.5C) is better from a "shootability" standpoint, ammo capacity standpoint, commercial ammo cost standpoint, and barrel life standpoint.
FWIW I've shot both .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor rifles in matches, and my old .260 match gun is now my wife's match rifle. .260/6.5C are great cartridges.
rogers0317
08-28-11, 17:27
I would look at 6.5 creedmore as well. Ballistics will be just as good as the 300 WM but with the advantages of a short action.
If you end up deciding on a 300 WM though, I would just purchase a standard Remington 700p or 5r. Shoot the barrel out (1000-1500 rounds) then make the modifications you want when you send it in to get rebarreled.
I agree with what ToddK said...300 Win Mag is a awesome round, but ridiculous recoil and expensive.
Make sure you have a good recoil pad.
A friend has a .308 Savage that sucks to shoot just cause the recoil pad sucks.
My -06 is around 7 or 8 pounds, super light which is scary, good recoil pads help
rogers0317
08-28-11, 19:36
True. Take a look at the cost of match grade 300 WM. Compare that to factory match grade hornady 6.5 creedmore.
Also, with the 300 WM, your shoulder is going to take some abuse after a few shots. 6.5 will have a very comparably light recoil.
The 300wm recoil is relative, In a target/precision rig when weight is up, it's not a big deal. Have good fundemental's and you have to shoot an awful lot to feel the effects. I've ran close to 100 rounds multiple days in a row and have no issue. My rifle isn't really heavy as some and have no brake on it. I will fatten the barrel up though when this one needs to be replaced. In my opinion, it has less felt recoil than a lighter SPS .308 20"
Ammo cost is a tad more, I've matched the A191 loads safely which aren't that hot anyhow. Brass can be an issue if you don't have access to once fired. I ran low and needed more brass and before a re supply had to spring for a case of Black Hills Match since the cost of brass and components was getting to close to the new to where I didn't want to spend the time reloading and now I have plenty of brass.
I'm sure getting started with the other calibers will be a tad more also if you don't have the brass to start off with. Having a bit of .308 brass available has always been a saver when reloading that caliber.
I would look at 6.5 creedmore as well. Ballistics will be just as good as the 300 WM but with the advantages of a short action.
If you end up deciding on a 300 WM though, I would just purchase a standard Remington 700p or 5r. Shoot the barrel out (1000-1500 rounds) then make the modifications you want when you send it in to get rebarreled.
My stock 700PSS is a great shooter. I wanted in with a 300wm and didn't want to wait 6-7 months to build so I picked up one with the intent of a re-barrel later on, she went into a stage 2 AICS and shoots really well. After my first re barrel on a .308, I will order the 300wm barrel 6 months before I anticipate needing it to reduce down time.
The 300wm recoil is relative, In a target/precision rig when weight is up, it's not a big deal. Have good fundemental's and you have to shoot an awful lot to feel the effects. I've ran close to 100 rounds multiple days in a row and have no issue. My rifle isn't really heavy as some and have no brake on it. I will fatten the barrel up though when this one needs to be replaced. In my opinion, it has less felt recoil than a lighter SPS .308 20"
Ammo cost is a tad more, I've matched the A191 loads safely which aren't that hot anyhow. Brass can be an issue if you don't have access to once fired. I ran low and needed more brass and before a re supply had to spring for a case of Black Hills Match since the cost of brass and components was getting to close to the new to where I didn't want to spend the time reloading and now I have plenty of brass.
I'm sure getting started with the other calibers will be a tad more also if you don't have the brass to start off with. Having a bit of .308 brass available has always been a saver when reloading that caliber.
I don't think it's a matter of having good fundamentals somehow negating the recoil of the .300WM. I've seen plenty of .300WM shooters in matches shooting from awkward positions where each time they fire they basically have to rebuild the position. The fact is that the .300WM has significantly more recoil than a .308/.260/6.5C and it will make a difference, especially when firing from anything other than prone or off a bench.
As far as ballistics, I haven't found a definitive source for A191 load data, but I have found places saying between 2900 and 3000fps with the Lapua 185. Splitting the difference and figuring on 2950fps and then plugging those numbers into JBM and comparing them to something that a .260/6.5C is capable of doing, a 142SMK at 2840fps for instance, and the .260/6.5C will show less drop, less wind drift, and significantly less recoil. Further, the .260/6.5C will have longer barrel life, be cheaper to load for, and if you're in a match situation you'll have no trouble finding magazines that'll hold 10+ rounds of .260/6.5C. There's really no advantage to the .300WM unless you are concerned with terminal ballistics.
I should point out that it is possible to push a .300WM hard enough with the heavier bullets to beat the external ballistics that a .260/6.5C is capable of, but you're taking on even more recoil to do it, and even shorter barrel life.
I don't think it's a matter of having good fundamentals somehow negating the recoil of the .300WM. I've seen plenty of .300WM shooters in matches shooting from awkward positions where each time they fire they basically have to rebuild the position. The fact is that the .300WM has significantly more recoil than a .308/.260/6.5C and it will make a difference, especially when firing from anything other than prone or off a bench.
As far as ballistics, I haven't found a definitive source for A191 load data, but I have found places saying between 2900 and 3000fps with the Lapua 185. Splitting the difference and figuring on 2950fps and then plugging those numbers into JBM and comparing them to something that a .260/6.5C is capable of doing, a 142SMK at 2840fps for instance, and the .260/6.5C will show less drop, less wind drift, and significantly less recoil. Further, the .260/6.5C will have longer barrel life, be cheaper to load for, and if you're in a match situation you'll have no trouble finding magazines that'll hold 10+ rounds of .260/6.5C. There's really no advantage to the .300WM unless you are concerned with terminal ballistics.
I should point out that it is possible to push a .300WM hard enough with the heavier bullets to beat the external ballistics that a .260/6.5C is capable of, but you're taking on even more recoil to do it, and even shorter barrel life.
I'm not arguing the differences in the calibers, just a couple "points" on the 300wm. If you don't have your NPA and body alignment squared away, you will feel the effects more so than the smaller calibers-hence the statement you made about rebuilding your position. You won't notice it as much with the smaller calibers.
And yes if you want the payload, the bigger calibers will deliver more. It all depends on what you want from it. There are AI 10 round magazines available for the 300wm, yes AI magazines if you have the dollars for them. I chronographed the A191 loads from my stick and have accurately matched them with H1000.
All the wisdom is genuinely appreciated, however in the end I decided to start with the basics and go from there. Picked up a Remington 700 5R this weekend in .308 and some nightforce glass. Once I'm a skilled enough precision shooter to be able to bitch about the drawbacks of the .308 I'll toss some coin at a custom gun in one of the boutique calibers.
lets see it, a pic is worth ...words.
Which NF glass?
What length barrel?
enjoy
lets see it, a pic is worth ...words.
Which NF glass?
What length barrel?
enjoy
currently in the mail on its way from Fowler Gun Room in Orange County to my FFL here in vegas.
I'll have pics up at the end of the week.
Next time i'm in Vegas, I help you yank on that trigger:D
kinda frightening, honestly.
All the wisdom is genuinely appreciated, however in the end I decided to start with the basics and go from there. Picked up a Remington 700 5R this weekend in .308 and some nightforce glass. Once I'm a skilled enough precision shooter to be able to bitch about the drawbacks of the .308 I'll toss some coin at a custom gun in one of the boutique calibers.
Very smart move, you won't be disappointed. If you went with the 50mm obj, low rings are perfect, even better with an Eagle stock pack.
Guess I'm late to the party, but nothing clears yokels from rhe range better than a belted magnum like 300WM. (Indoor is even better)
308 is a good start though. Shoot the crap outta it.
Very smart move, you won't be disappointed. If you went with the 50mm obj, low rings are perfect, even better with an Eagle stock pack.
Yes and Yes on that Eagle Shooters pack. Just got mine and it feels very good.
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