View Full Version : Chest rigs, Slings and reloading
toddackerman
11-06-07, 18:41
Recently went to the Eagle M4 chest rig as seen here: http://www.eagleindustries.com/prd_detail.asp?ProdID=118&CatID=22&SubCatID=22
It's very high quality as is all of the Eagle gear I have owned, but after playing with it, and using it in training along with a Blue Force Gear Vickers sling, I really am wrestling with some facts...especially revolving around reloading with this gear on.
It is very apparent while wearing a chest rig, and Tactical type sling that getting to the mags for a reload while maneuvering around the sling is very cumbersome. Same applies to vests that have the Mags. in the front.
No matter how I try, there is very little room between the sling, and mag pouch to get your hand in there to secure the "Same secure grip" every time. In a high stress situation, I would think this would be even more complicated.
I recently watched (again) Clint Smith demonstrating reloading using a 2 point sling that he keeps secured with his weak hand against the forend with his weak hand, and reloading from his left hip pocket, much the same as it would be from a belt Mag pouch. It is effortless! The sling doesn't get in the way, and the mag comes out of his pocket like butter. I remember doing .6 second "Speed Reloads" in my competitive 1911 days, and it reminded me of this.
Here are some thoughts, realizations, and things to ponder...
I realize that the "Pocket" is maybe not the best place to keep a spare Mag, IF you're ready for an encounter, but I do believe that a belt pouch would be very similar as far as ease of access. I love my Blade Tech Kydex single Mag belt pouch for this reason.
The belt pouch may get in the way of a Dump Pouch, but what's more important?
For full military engagements, I understand the need for multiple spare Mags.
Is a "Tactical Sling" mount the best way to go when you can do (with a 2 point sling mounted fore and aft) a Muzzle Up strong side carry, a Muzzle Down weak side carry, or extend the 2 point sling to have a "Tactical Carry " option (sling over the top of the strong shoulder and under the weak arm) IF...the darn sling doesn't interfere with operating the weapon??? This includes effective charging handle manipulation, which although doable with a tactical sling, it's sure a lot easier without any sling at all in the way.
So, those are my toughts, and I'd love to hear yours.
Always in search of the "Holy Grail"!
Tack
Todd,
I use the same set up that you have. The VCAS and the Eagle M4 Chest rig.
Thw role I see using this set up is for our Carbine matches, and at work if I have to deploy my Carbine I grab the Chest rig and throw it over my head. I am in LE. I have two HG mags on the chest rig also.
I have a Paddle type Kydex mag pouch for the Carbine that I can throw on too, but more to the 8:00 position. I have found reloading from the mag pouch is much faster than the Chest rig for me. I then back fill the belt mag pouch from the right most chest rig pouch when time permits.
I run the VCAS at the front sight Base swivel and the rear of the stock. I am Right handed and the sling goes over my right shoulder and under my left arm, this aids in transition to the pistol. Someone just posted that Mr. Vickers said to put the sling at the tightest point in a t-shirt and then you can loosen it up when more gear comes into play. I pretty much did the same thing...
I am considering mounting a rail swivel back near the Delta Ring and see how I like that, if it helps or not. Again I saw this on Mr. Vicker's 416 from his recent class hosted by LMS.
I am not sure if what I wrote helps you or not, but at least someone else feels your pain. I think that everything is a compromise you just have to figure out what is best for you.....
Stay safe
Jack
toddackerman
11-06-07, 21:46
Todd,
I use the same set up that you have. The VCAS and the Eagle M4 Chest rig.
Thw role I see using this set up is for our Carbine matches, and at work if I have to deploy my Carbine I grab the Chest rig and throw it over my head. I am in LE. I have two HG mags on the chest rig also.
I have a Paddle type Kydex mag pouch for the Carbine that I can throw on too, but more to the 8:00 position. I have found reloading from the mag pouch is much faster than the Chest rig for me. I then back fill the belt mag pouch from the right most chest rig pouch when time permits.
I run the VCAS at the front sight Base swivel and the rear of the stock. I am Right handed and the sling goes over my right shoulder and under my left arm, this aids in transition to the pistol. Someone just posted that Mr. Vickers said to put the sling at the tightest point in a t-shirt and then you can loosen it up when more gear comes into play. I pretty much did the same thing...
I am considering mounting a rail swivel back near the Delta Ring and see how I like that, if it helps or not. Again I saw this on Mr. Vicker's 416 from his recent class hosted by LMS.
I am not sure if what I wrote helps you or not, but at least someone else feels your pain. I think that everything is a compromise you just have to figure out what is best for you.....
Stay safe
Jack
I too mount the rear of the sling at the receiver plate. I mount the front end just ahead of the receiver. Thinking that maybe mounting the ends further away would add some extra room to play with in the "Work Space". Just a thought. I agree that there is a need to compromise.
Tack
Tack
Another shooter with the same gear here.
I attach my two-point to the rail near the barrel nut using an MI swivel that moves fore and aft only, and to the toe/rear of the stock using a QD swivel.
I also have Magpul Ranger plates on all my mags. This makes all the difference in the world to me in terms of how I extract the fresh mag and insert it into the gun. I do not notice the sling at all.
With that said, I am adding a single belt pouch to my setup, and I will use that for speed loads, with the chest rig reserved for feeding that pouch and/or admin loads.
Gratuitous pics of guns & gear follow:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6520-01.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6933-01.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/DSC_1807Small.jpg
toddackerman
11-07-07, 09:13
Another shooter with the same gear here.
I attach my two-point to the rail near the barrel nut using an MI swivel that moves fore and aft only, and to the toe/rear of the stock using a QD swivel.
I also have Magpul Ranger plates on all my mags. This makes all the difference in the world to me in terms of how I extract the fresh mag and insert it into the gun. I do not notice the sling at all.
With that said, I am adding a single belt pouch to my setup, and I will use that for speed loads, with the chest rig reserved for feeding that pouch and/or admin loads.
Gratuitous pics of guns & gear follow:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6520-01.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6933-01.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/DSC_1807Small.jpg
Rob...
I'm going out today to play with mounting the sling to the rear instead of at the back of the receiver to see if it opens up the "Work Space" a little.
Question...Are you going over the top, or under the sling to extract the fresh Mag from your pouch? I have been going over the top to extract, and under to insert. It's going for the fresh Mag that I encounter a "Tight Space".
I also see that you got the buckle on the left side of your chest rig. I know this was an issue for you on complicating your pistol draw. Mine came with the buckle on the weak side so I didn't have to mess with alterations. Then again...didn't I see that you had your original chest rig for sale? Did you get a replacement, or did you alter it.?
In looking at your Pics., I notice that your light is quite aways ahead of where your weak thumb would be to activate it while maintaining a grip on your VFG. Any comments?
Tack
Question...Are you going over the top, or under the sling to extract the fresh Mag from your pouch? I have been going over the top to extract, and under to insert. It's going for the fresh Mag that I encounter a "Tight Space".
Without the chest rig on and the rifle in hand, I honestly don't know. I think that the sling stays to the right, and I grab the mags from the left side of the sling, but I'll have to suit up to check.:D
I also see that you got the buckle on the left side of your chest rig. I know this was an issue for you on complicating your pistol draw. Mine came with the buckle on the weak side so I didn't have to mess with alterations. Then again...didn't I see that you had your original chest rig for sale? Did you get a replacement, or did you alter it.?
It wound up coming this way. The rig pictured is the new version with only one buckle. Protoype pics I had seen showed the buckle on the other side, but the production model I received has the buckle in the "right" place.
In looking at your Pics., I notice that your light is quite aways ahead of where your weak thumb would be to hit it while maintaining a grip on your VFG. Any comments?
It seems to work for me. With the stubby grip it keeps my hand high, and my thumb is long enough to reach just fine.
Always in search of the "Holy Grail"!
You can say that again. I've given up and just went to old fashioned deuce gear.
I added a couple of fastex subloads for extra mags and a thigh holster, and that's it.
You can say that again. I've given up and just went to old fashioned deuce gear.
I added a couple of fastex subloads for extra mags and a thigh holster, and that's it.
I am very happy in that I have finally settled on the stripped-down chest rig as pictured and one belt mag. It's one of those things, kind of like the two carbines pictured, that once you get to that Nirvana you kind of hear the angels sing. :cool:
toddackerman
11-07-07, 09:45
[QUOTE=rob_s;92326]Without the chest rig on and the rifle in hand, I honestly don't know. I think that the sling stays to the right, and I grab the mags from the left side of the sling, but I'll have to suit up to check.:D
QUOTE]
The following is all theory until I play with it some more, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts.
In this setup, the sling is pretty much directly to the left of the first mag on the left side of the pouch...and very close to it, especially if you don't lower the "Work Space" more than usual (which I need to experiment with) because it would take the sling down low enough to not get in the way of a proper grasp on the fresh Mag. This extraction would be done over the top of the sling.
After Mag extraction, the rifle would be raised up to promote insertion of the new Mag....under the sling. Note: I'm a strong guy, but raising a 8# rifle with only the strong hand to the shoulder gets tiring after 10 times or so. I'd prefer to keep the rifle touching the pocket of my shoulder for better balance and control, and "Pivoting" from my shoulder back up into the firing position, versus "Lifting" it back up.
By trying to lower the rifle below the mag pouch, it may take some loosening of the Vickers sling length to accomplish clearing the way for the "Snatch" from the pouch...which I really don't want to do. Note: I am trying to grasp the fresh Mag. with a "Beer Can Grip". I like my ranger Plates, but don't like the fact that the Mag. is less stable in my hand using them to hold on to, versus having a secure hold on them.
At least that's what I am thinking without the rig on. It's all theory at this point.
Lot to practice and play with.
Tack
Lot to practice and play with.
Which ultimately is going to be the key.
Frankly, I don't know how I'd do it without the Ranger plates. I just stick my social-finger in the loop of the Magpul and pull it out, turning it to get a "cupped" grip on the bottom. I like this because I can push-pull with the heel of my hand and my fingers on the Ranger Plate (respectively) without shifting my grip.
toddackerman
11-07-07, 10:10
Which ultimately is going to be the key.
Frankly, I don't know how I'd do it without the Ranger plates. I just stick my social-finger in the loop of the Magpul and pull it out, turning it to get a "cupped" grip on the bottom. I like this because I can push-pull with the heel of my hand and my fingers on the Ranger Plate (respectively) without shifting my grip.
I hear you on inserting the "Social Finger" into the Ranger Plate loop, but that's a little tight with gloves on. If it weren't for that, I would, and do use that technique as well along with using my "Pinky" inserted into the expended Mag. to pull it out of the weapon before inserting the fresh Mag. while doing a Tactical reload. I just let it hang from the "Pinky" until I can take the time to put the expended Mag. in the Dump pouch. This again without gloves.
Tack
Yeah, I gave up on gloves. For my purposes (non-LE civilian) I have no use for the gloves, although I tried them a few times just to see if I was missing anything. What I wound up missing was my target, 'cause I couldn't feel my trigger like I was used to! :eek:
toddackerman
11-07-07, 10:23
Yeah, I gave up on gloves. For my purposes (non-LE civilian) I have no use for the gloves, although I tried them a few times just to see if I was missing anything. What I wound up missing was my target, 'cause I couldn't feel my trigger like I was used to! :eek:
It's all about trigger control isn't it? I cut the index finger pad section out of my gloves. Maybe I should consider cutting the "Social Finger", and "Pinky Finger" out as well. Many just use the fingerless gloves for these reasons. Something to consider when you're doing a face plant on gravel to go to prone. :)
First, let me say that I have felt your pain… and in some cases continue to feel your pain. Over the past few years, I have been running a single point sling attached to the rifle by way of a sling plate. It’s great for working in and around vehicles, buildings, etc. However, a single point sucks when it comes to having to cover ground… like several miles. That is where a two point, for me, has worked best.
I recently attended a Bennie Cooley class in Casa Grande, AZ. For those of you who do not know him, Mr. Cooley is a current serving SWAT officer for a three letter fed agency. His team has won several national SWAT challenges, he has won USPSA 3 gun matches, etc. Therefore, I figured there was something to learn from him and I was right.
For his class I was running my AR with the HK style sling plate adapter with the HK style snap link. The front attachment was a quick detach mounted directly to my rail. Cooley has you do allot of strong and weak side shooting drills. When I had the sling around my neck, and say, my weak side…when I shot strong side I was fine…as soon as I switched to weak side shooting, I would choke myself with the sling…figuratively speaking. Solution… when you get on line… just loop the sling over your neck. That solved that issue.
Next issue was that HK style snap link would bind, and sometimes the sling would be over top of the stock and it was a mess. I was thinking to myself and I said, “Self, there has to be a better way”. I then saw pictures of the Larry Vickers class that LMS Defense hosted in California (www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8714) and saw the way that Mr. Vickers had the VTAC sling mounted to his Magpul CTR stock. I took off the HK style snap thing and attached it the same way… it seems work like a charm. I have had some time to practice the strong side/weak side shooting that we did at the Cooley class and this sling set up that Mr. Vickers had seems to be the answer for me.
Might want to check it out.
Hopefully this was helpful to some extent.
Y-
toddackerman
11-07-07, 11:55
First, let me say that I have felt your pain… and in some cases continue to feel your pain. Over the past few years, I have been running a single point sling attached to the rifle by way of a sling plate. It’s great for working in and around vehicles, buildings, etc. However, a single point sucks when it comes to having to cover ground… like several miles. That is where a two point, for me, has worked best.
I recently attended a Bennie Cooley class in Casa Grande, AZ. For those of you who do not know him, Mr. Cooley is a current serving SWAT officer for a three letter fed agency. His team has won several national SWAT challenges, he has won USPSA 3 gun matches, etc. Therefore, I figured there was something to learn from him and I was right.
For his class I was running my AR with the HK style sling plate adapter with the HK style snap link. The front attachment was a quick detach mounted directly to my rail. Cooley has you do allot of strong and weak side shooting drills. When I had the sling around my neck, and say, my weak side…when I shot strong side I was fine…as soon as I switched to weak side shooting, I would choke myself with the sling…figuratively speaking. Solution… when you get on line… just loop the sling over your neck. That solved that issue.
Next issue was that HK style snap link would bind, and sometimes the sling would be over top of the stock and it was a mess. I was thinking to myself and I said, “Self, there has to be a better way”. I then saw pictures of the Larry Vickers class that LMS Defense hosted in California (www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8714) and saw the way that Mr. Vickers had the VTAC sling mounted to his Magpul CTR stock. I took off the HK style snap thing and attached it the same way… it seems work like a charm. I have had some time to practice the strong side/weak side shooting that we did at the Cooley class and this sling set up that Mr. Vickers had seems to be the answer for me.
Might want to check it out.
Hopefully this was helpful to some extent.
Y-
I'm running the Vickers sling as well, just not attached to the rear of the stock...yet. Trying it today.
One problem with this mounting method is that transitioning to the weak shoulder is much slower. You have to release the sling tension (given that the sling is properly "snugged Up" in the firing position), drop your weak shoulder out and then make the move. It's Ok to do this "On the Firing Line" but probably a little slow for CQB applications. I guess passing the sling over your head is an option...unless you drop the rifle.
It's always something!
Tack
I guess passing the sling over your head is an option...unless you drop the rifle.
What do you mean?
toddackerman
11-07-07, 12:45
What do you mean?
Taking your strong hand and lifting the sling up and over your head to get out of it before transitioning to the weak shoulder. It works, but again if you need to drop the weapon to go to the side arm or inadvertently drop it...you've just lost your primary weapon.
Tack
Just loop the sling over your head.
That way, you can change strong site/weak side... and you won't 'loose' you weapon... unless, you loose your head.
Y-
I think cutting the fingers off the glove, defeats the purpose of the gloves. The most important part to protect for shooting, is the trigger finger.
I have no choice, and the nomex gloves can't have a hole in it, much less have the fingers cut off, you can shoot pretty good with gloves on, you just have to practice, and choose your gloves and fit wisely.
I run my VCAS at the front of the forearm, and the rear of the stock, just keep playing witht eh adjustment point to find the sweet spot, I've never had aproblem accessing mags. A trick is to tuck the stock under your armpit, witht he muzzle elevated, takes the weight off your arms, and makes room to access mags.
Transitioning to the weak side, most likely you will have the time to adjust the sling, and switch shoulders. I'm not big on that, and pie my corners witht eh gun on the strong side. If your switching to use cover better, again, you should ahve the seond or two to adjust, afterall your behind cover.
JM2C
Yancey, what 3 letters could those be;)
Bob
I'm attending my first class in about a month. Pat's Carbine Operators class. I too have the Eagle M4 Rig and a kydex belt pouch. I'm not used to running a rifle mag on my belt like this. What position are you guys putting it in? This will be my first formal rifle training and I'm still playing with my setup to find what works best. I need a new sling, but will have to run what I have for now.
-RD62
Yancey,
I was refering to Cooley's org.
IIRC we are in the same org.
Bob
toddackerman
11-07-07, 17:51
I think cutting the fingers off the glove, defeats the purpose of the gloves. The most important part to protect for shooting, is the trigger finger.
I have no choice, and the nomex gloves can't have a hole in it, much less have the fingers cut off, you can shoot pretty good with gloves on, you just have to practice, and choose your gloves and fit wisely.
I run my VCAS at the front of the forearm, and the rear of the stock, just keep playing witht eh adjustment point to find the sweet spot, I've never had aproblem accessing mags. A trick is to tuck the stock under your armpit, witht he muzzle elevated, takes the weight off your arms, and makes room to access mags.
Transitioning to the weak side, most likely you will have the time to adjust the sling, and switch shoulders. I'm not big on that, and pie my corners witht eh gun on the strong side. If your switching to use cover better, again, you should ahve the seond or two to adjust, afterall your behind cover.
JM2C
Yancey, what 3 letters could those be;)
Bob
Cutting fingers off my gloves was a joke.
Anyway, I played with mounting the sling o the rear of the stock today, and it does give you more area to work with in the "Work Space". Will continue to use this for awhile to see if it continues to aid reloading, but it still isn't optimal for shoulder transitioning. Sometimes we have to pick the lesser of evils.
I think I'm with Rob though...I used my Blade Tech single pouch on the weak side today, with my chest rig, and it's twice as fast on reloads than going to the chest rig. It's easier to grip and index the mag tow rads the well.
Tack
Yancey,
I was refering to Cooley's org.
Oh... man... was I slow on that :)
You are on the road to learning toddackerman... its a never ending quest of trying this, moving that, changeing this...
Best of luck in your training in the future.
Yancey
toddackerman
11-07-07, 20:16
Oh... man... was I slow on that :)
You are on the road to learning toddackerman... its a never ending quest of trying this, moving that, changeing this...
Best of luck in your training in the future.
Yancey
I'm always on the road to learning. As I as told once by a college professor who said...Mr. Ackerman, once you think you're a finished product...you are!"
I don't want to be "finished" when the stakes are so high.
Tack
Todd,
you may have been joking, but I've seen alot of guys do it, some just cause it looks good. Some just use weightlifting gloves, don't see the point in that for tactical shooting.
bob
Failure2Stop
11-08-07, 05:11
I run 4 single mag pouches (in addition to between 1 and 3 double mag pouches) on my armor but only one of them is really for speed/emergency reloads, and it is because of sling interference and hand/wrist/arm twistiness during stress actions.
The only true speed reload on my vest is offset to the left (I'm a rightie) of center, just past the edge of my plate.
I also run a thigh sub-load with two rifle speed reloads, one pistol speed reload (set to the front of the first rifle speed-reload) and one pistol sustainment magazine. There is zero sling interference, and a more natural draw stroke (to use the term) to me. The first time I tried it out, I did it all wrong, but eventually went to not more than 2 rifle mags, panel very high, rounds down and rearward. I like the Triad Tactical Flop or the Battle Lab single low-cut for this application. It keeps your thighs from getting too wide. I drop it off of a belt, which also carrys my pistol mags, holster, knife, and dump pouch, effectively being "first-line" gear.
I am thinking about using the 45 degree adaptor for my vest speed reload. Need to get on a course to try it out.
YMMV
Submariner
11-08-07, 07:50
I think I'm with Rob though...I used my Blade Tech single pouch on the weak side today, with my chest rig, and it's twice as fast on reloads than going to the chest rig. It's easier to grip and index the mag tow rads the well.
Of late, Pat Rogers has been running a drill where you expend two rounds from each magazine on your person using a speed reload for each mag. This is done standing, kneeling and prone. It is atrue eye-opener for learning how pouch placement affects the speed of reloading.
QuietShooter is a joy to behold as he burns through twelve to fourteen mags.
toddackerman
11-08-07, 08:05
Of late, Pat Rogers has been running a drill where you expend two rounds from each magazine on your person using a speed reload for each mag. This is done standing, kneeling and prone. It is atrue eye-opener for learning how pouch placement affects the speed of reloading.
QuietShooter is a joy to behold as he burns through twelve to fourteen mags.
That's a great drill...especially for prone.
I'm going to start playing with re-orienting my mags in their pouches from rounds facing to the strong side (right for right handers, to rounds facing the weak side (left for right handers) to facilitate a better "Beer Can Grip" and see how that works. It makes sense in theory to be able to grab the mag this way with the palm facing my chest instead of trying to wedge my hand between my body and the Mag to perform this type of grip.
I've tried repeatedly for several years using the Magpul loop "Social Finger" method and find it's too unstable for me. The Mag wants to wiggle around too much because of the rubber loop being too flexible. For me, the Beer Can grip is much more solid, and I don't miss the mag well nearly as often because my hand is more solidly indexing/ orienting the mag towards the well.
Just my thoughts. YMMV
I'm glad you posted this, because it reminded me yesterday to order the two Bulman Gunleather AR mag pouches that I've been meaning to. Of course, one in tan, one in black, to match all social situations. :cool:
I did put on my chest rig and sling my rifle yesterday afternoon when I was home, and I found that I do all my manipulations under the sling.
toddackerman
11-08-07, 08:46
I'm glad you posted this, because it reminded me yesterday to order the two Bulman Gunleather AR mag pouches that I've been meaning to. Of course, one in tan, one in black, to match all social situations. :cool:
I did put on my chest rig and sling my rifle yesterday afternoon when I was home, and I found that I do all my manipulations under the sling.
Thanks Rob.
So you are actually raising the front of the rifle high enough to retrieve a Mag from the Chest Rig "Under" the sling? I need to try that. I do insert the Mag into the well under the sling, but maybe I need to lower my chest rig so that I can retrieve the Mag from the pouch under the sling as well.? More like a "Belly Rig" versus a "Chest Rig".
I guess so. Remember too that my sling is attached at the barrel nut, so it doesn't stick out as far to the front. I keep my support arm (left arm) under/left of the sling the whole time, never reaching over/right of the sling.
It's from the wrong side, but here is me shooting with my sling & rig adjusted as I normally do.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/EAG%20Tactical/DSC05210Small.jpg
toddackerman
11-08-07, 11:08
I guess so. Remember too that my sling is attached at the barrel nut, so it doesn't stick out as far to the front. I keep my support arm (left arm) under/left of the sling the whole time, never reaching over/right of the sling.
It's from the wrong side, but here is me shooting with my sling & rig adjusted as I normally do.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/EAG%20Tactical/DSC05210Small.jpg
I was able to play around a little more with this new rig setup.
Everything that Rob suggested was right on. I tried both the "Retrieve, and Reload" under the sling by raising the platform up enough to easily clear the sling (not that far of a lift), changed my Mag orientation to rounds facing to the weak side for a "Beer Can Grip", and also moved my MOLLE 1911 Pistol Mag Pouch to the farthest left and lowest position possible away from the M4 Mags. to obtain the best grip on the farthest left (my first mag for speed from the Chest Rig), and it works like a charm! Very solid, and very fast.
I was trying to lower the rifle a little into the "Work Space" instead of raising it slightly to get it out of the way. Once the Mag is snatched from the chest rig pouch, I lower the platform back down parallel to the target line. It works very well!.
So, this is how the new rig looks. Very simple, fast , secure, and a great "Grab and Go" setup. In addition, I have an Eagle MK V drop leg pistol holster (without the drop extension making ride higher on the thigh closer to the belt), a Blade Tech M4 single Mag Kydex pouch, and a GCM Dump Pouch on a "Separate" Eagle heavy nylon 2" duty belt. I like being able to take it all on and off without having to "Undress" on the range. It's faster to get on as well.
Here are some pics...and before I get "Whacked"....yes, my "Stripped lower" is a BM. That's all that is BM. Never failed after 8800 rounds, but what could fail on a stripped lower? . The next will be an LMT or Sun Devil lower. The upper is a 16" LMT MRP. 6800 rounds and no failures.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/toddackerman/ChestandCarbineRig.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/toddackerman/M4MagChestRig.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/toddackerman/GrabandGoBeltRig.jpg
I actually got rid of the pistol mag pouches on my rig. As you can see from the pics, I'm pretty skinny and they kept handing up on my gear and interfering with my movement.
toddackerman
11-08-07, 14:26
I actually got rid of the pistol mag pouches on my rig. As you can see from the pics, I'm pretty skinny and they kept handing up on my gear and interfering with my movement.
Good to keep in mind. Where did you end up putting them?
Indeed the sling comes near the pistol Mag pouches when mounted this way, but with the Kydex Single M4 pouch, and Dump pouch already on the left side, the only other places to mount the pistol Mag pouch would be on the front of the Chest Rig via MOLLE, or on the right side making it impossible to get to with the weak hand.
I'm going to start playing with them mounted in the center of the Chest Rig, and see what happens. I'd really like to mount it on the belt, on the left side where I USE to be able to smack .4 second reload from, but that was with no slings or other gear on me. Just the Belt, holster and Mag pouch.
Ahhhh...those were the days. Of course we all believed back then that the .45 ACP was the PRIMARY weapon, and all that was needed. :)
I'm operating under the assumption that I'll have my CCW on my belt already, which means I'll have at least one mag for that already on my belt if I needed to grab the carbine. If I'm grabbing the carbine and I'm not already carrying my pistol, I doubt I'm going to take the time to stop and strap on the pistol.
I did just order a single molle pistol pouch to see if that works out on the chest rig, just in case, but I'm really digging the stripped-down setup. If the pistol mag works out on the left, I'm probably going to add a leatherman pouch on the right. Both of which will be mounted as close in to the rifle mags as possible.
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