View Full Version : Is there a downside to KNS pins?
Eurodriver
08-27-11, 08:27
I just bought an M&P15 lower and it came with KNS pins installed. The guy gave me the OEM trigger pins as well.
I'm just wondering if its worth my time to remove the KNS pins and install the OEM ones. These are the Gen2 Mod2 and with the reading I've done that says these are not prone to breaking.
I've googled and searched but all I've found is that they are a waste of money and provide no benefit. Nothing that says they will have negative impacts on the weapon.
flanntastic
08-27-11, 08:32
no downside, just overkill,
i do have a lower with worn pin holes that constantly let the trigger pin slip which lead to the disconnector not grabbing. Added the KNS pins and its all good now
No, they are fine. If they're already on there then don't go through the trouble of taking them out.
Alot of guys on here bash them because it is a $30 part that doesn't really add anything to the gun...but it doesn't take anything away either. I use them, but not for walking/rotating/grinding trigger/hammer pins. I use them as an index for my finger to make sure it is out of the trigger guard.
Cons:
They make dis-assembly a little challenging in the field.
They will create little wear areas on the outside of the receiver.
Pros:
They won't walk out.
They stabilize the pins by making the whole unit act as one.
Eurodriver
08-27-11, 08:36
That works for me, thanks gents. I'll just keep the original pins as spares.
ursus.peracto
08-27-11, 08:39
If you yank them and put stock pins back in you will regret it (IMHO).
Go ahead and do the switch.
Don't take my or anyone else's advice. Do it as a learning experience.
Check your trigger pull before and after.
Report back with objective impressions and opinion.
I couldn't get that junk out of there quick enough if I were you....
If for nothing else.... so you don't look like a homo.
KNS products are all pretty retarded.
Out of the 4 sets I have wasted my money on... I'm pulling them from weapons one by one.
Money is better spent on extra Colt pins and trigger/hammer springs.
I bought them back in 06-07 when everyone was buying into the hype that they were needed; time has proven otherwise.
*I have no idea the quality of S&W pins, the KNS may very well be stronger than their OEM. That said, I would toss the M&P garbage in the trash and get some Colt pins. Keep the KNS around as a backup (since there is zero resale value).
Yeah the downside is having to deal with all the people who dislike the product. They may not be necessary but you already have them installed. I have a set and I think the trigger pull might even be noticeably better with my spikes NiB trigger parts, initially when I installed I forgot to grease the pins and they are not so difficult to remove or install but the fact that the securing screws are Allen heads sucks.
I couldn't get that junk out of there quick enough if I were you....
If for nothing else.... so you don't look like a homo.
KNS products are all pretty retarded.
LMAO
I'm saving that for future use. I will give you full credit as the author of course.
I had a DD lower at one time that had these installed when I bought it; I just left them in. I wouldn't actually pay for them and install them.
Cons:
They make dis-assembly a little challenging in the field.
They will create little wear areas on the outside of the receiver.
Pros:
They won't walk out.
They stabilize the pins by making the whole unit act as one.
Damn I didn't even think about field repair...I put them in so long ago, I forgot they used allen heads. My "go-to" rifle won't have them in that case...
ursus.peracto
08-27-11, 09:13
I couldn't get that junk out of there quick enough if I were you....
If for nothing else.... so you don't look like a homo.
KNS products are all pretty retarded.
If this doesn't qualify as the most ignorant post that I have ever read here.
It's your lower OP. Try the rifle with and without. You decide. Don't let some internet Einstein decide what flavor of kool-aid you should drink. Jim Jones got lots of people to drink his kool-aid.
Didn't you know you have to have them to be a real deal "operator"? They will make everything in your world better:sarcastic:
Actually, I HAVE found a good use for them. I have them on my sbr b/c I use a Chip McCormick trigger and it had little clips to hold the pins in.
1. they drove me crazy
2. they had fallen off before, while I was wiping it off.
Those were enough reasons for me.
To answer your question, they are not necessary, but I do believe them to be an upgrade, and they don't hurt anything.
p.s. I do NOT have them on any of my other rifles.
FailureDrill-P099
08-27-11, 09:20
I dont think they will hurt anything but unless you have a full auto lower I dont think they are really needed. Its your lower and if you want them go fo it.
SeriousBRD
08-27-11, 09:32
I would just leave them in since the lower came with them already installed. I've had two lowers with KNS pins, one was a dedicated 9mm lower and the other gets used with a .22lr conversion kit. I don't use the conversion kit very often anymore but I'll leave the pins in. They may not be necessary but I don't see the harm
Used them for a year, because I bought into the "advantages", and standard pins do rotate. Plus, I have a JP fire control set and thought KNS pins helped the trigger pull. Recently changed to Geiselle pins, (which are .155" rather than mil spec .154"), due to concern that a primer may pop out, locking up trigger. KNS pins, even with 2 allen wrenches in the stock, are a pain to remove.
No regrets going with Geiselle pins over KNS. Trigger pull still excellent.
Read on ADCO's site that KNS pins use steel that is actually softer than mil spec, so while lower holes may not wear, pins might.
Failure2Stop
08-27-11, 09:46
Don't take my or anyone else's advice.
This is completely counter to the intent of this forum.
ursus.peracto
08-27-11, 10:02
This is completely counter to the intent of this forum.
I agree unconditionally but.... this issue is personal and subjective. How something looks can be argued like blondes/brunettes/redheads.
How something "feels", like trigger pull, is also subjective unless we measure it.
If the pins aren't as good as mil-spec with regards to service life and failure, then that's another matter that i would be interested in and someone in the forum may be able to help.
jklaughrey
08-27-11, 10:03
If this doesn't qualify as the most ignorant post that I have ever read here.
Don't be a tool. After market whiz bangs and doodlebops add weight and change the manual of arms. Maybe less so in regards to these pins, but they will certainly change the ability of field repair. If something has no real purpose to enhance function or reliability than all you are doing is stroking your ego. Money would be better spent buying Jurgens lotion and stroking something that will put a smile on your face.:D
I use them and have no problems with them. I went with them because I also run 9mm and .22lr uppers on my SBR lower which can be hard on standard pins. I have broken too many trigger pins to not use them.
I keep a couple small allen wrenches in my grip along with an extra bolt, FP, and battery for my T-1 for field repairs
I'm sure they are "OverKill" but I have them in all my rifles because some Industry professionals and highly respected members and moderators of this Forum use them. I guess we're all a bunch of Homos :haha:
The cons are something to consider and field repair is definitly something to think about.
ursus.peracto
08-27-11, 10:14
Don't be a tool. After market whiz bangs and doodlebops add weight and change the manual of arms. Maybe less so in regards to these pins, but they will certainly change the ability of field repair. If something has no real purpose to enhance function or reliability than all you are doing is stroking your ego. Money would be better spent buying Jurgens lotion and stroking something that will put a smile on your face.:D
You may be surprised... but I agree with you.
I remember a thread recently that asked about the most hated rifle additions. I'll bet that one deflated a lot of egos. :)
One of the responses in that thread was something like "Guys that ask in a internet forum what should I buy/not buy for my rifle".
This thread qualifies under that premise. All that I am trying to convey is to make your own decisions. There is plenty of aftermarket junk out there with lots of respected names on it that don't add anything.
Each individual makes up their mind what that "junk" is.
Bad Medicine
08-27-11, 10:22
I bought into them as well and unless you are going to be blazing full auto down the range I really don't think they are necessary I will never buy them again. I know POF puts them on and that is one reason why POF is the weight of 3 rifles.
steelonsteel
08-27-11, 10:35
I have seen seen pins walk out of semi lowers - even with properly installed FCG pins. And it sucks when they do.
Further, I've always found the KNS set usually lightens a trigger pull by about a 1/2 pound or so - ntohing major, but it is there.
It is very likely you will never need them, but then again it IS possible - and they are cheap insurance.
I really don't see the need on a lower that is not a transferable machinegun. I use them on my Colt M16 lowers in order to prevent the theoretical risk of hammer/trigger pin wear and "egging out" that can occur on high round count lowers. It is cheap insurance to me.
But they have to periodically be checked to make sure the small screws holding everything together don't loosen. My second to last range trip I noticed these had loosened after a few fullauto mag dumps. Not exactly confidence inspiring in a defensive rifle.
I shoot my M16s quite a bit, so for me it is worth having, even with the need to inspect the screws intermittently, if it will protect my lower from wearing/egging out the hammer and trigger pin holes.
None of my designated utility/defensive rifles have KNS pins.
jklaughrey
08-27-11, 11:09
You may be surprised... but I agree with you.
I remember a thread recently that asked about the most hated rifle additions. I'll bet that one deflated a lot of egos. :)
One of the responses in that thread was something like "Guys that ask in a internet forum what should I buy/not buy for my rifle".
This thread qualifies under that premise. All that I am trying to convey is to make your own decisions. There is plenty of aftermarket junk out there with lots of respected names on it that don't add anything.
Each individual makes up their mind what that "junk" is.
Some things make sense in certain applications, where other times it is nonsense.
I just bought an M&P15 lower and it came with KNS pins installed. The guy gave me the OEM trigger pins as well.
I'm just wondering if its worth my time to remove the KNS pins and install the OEM ones. These are the Gen2 Mod2 and with the reading I've done that says these are not prone to breaking.
I've googled and searched but all I've found is that they are a waste of money and provide no benefit. Nothing that says they will have negative impacts on the weapon.
Negative impacts -
If they break you will probably not know it right away, this could cause your lower receiver to egg the holes.
Replace in the field is more difficult.
These things ruin more receivers than they help. Guess why they now have Gen2 pins instead of staying with the Gen1s?
They are a solution looking for a problem.
ursus.peracto
08-27-11, 11:39
Negative impacts -
If they break you will probably not know it right away, this could cause your lower receiver to egg the holes.
Replace in the field is more difficult.
These things ruin more receivers than they help. Guess why they now have Gen2 pins instead of staying with the Gen1s?
They are a solution looking for a problem.
Facts to back up your statements would be nice over-wise the response is opinion and hyperbole and add nothing to the debate.
Facts to back up your statements would be nice over-wise the response is opinion and hyperbole and add nothing to the debate.
I am stating facts.
I have been a personal eyewitness to these issues occurring on others guns. I have diagnosed and repaired several guns with these problems.
The problems associated with these pins and why they went to a Gen2 design is common knowledge.
RogerinTPA
08-27-11, 12:12
I have seen seen pins walk out of semi lowers - even with properly installed FCG pins. And it sucks when they do.
They IMHO, they were designed for lower quality/poorly manufactured lowers or worn out guns with extremely high round counts, maybe. Pat Rogers "Filthy 14" BCM Middy has probably over 30K+ rounds on it by now, rarely cleaned and no issues with the FCG pins walking. I've never seen it of any of my four 2x 6920, 1 LMT MRP and 1 DD or anyone else I've come across during training with a quality AR. 2 of my 4 ARs have over 10K+ rounds with no issues.
Eurodriver
08-27-11, 12:27
Guys, lets take the KNS pin bashing somewhere else.
This thread was never intended to be a "should I buy, do they work, are there advantages, etc" topic. It was merely about if there are negative consequences to having them installed. Half of you are preaching to the choir about something "we" already know (that KNS pins are pointless on semi auto AR15s, and depending on who you ask, EVERY AR variant) and the other half are answering what was answered six hours ago.
Eurodriver
08-27-11, 14:32
Alright,
I replaced the KNS pins with the OEM pins. It only took about five minutes.
Everything feels the same (mainly the trigger and safety), not sure what the big stir up about that was.
What really got me thinking was field repair and the fact that they rely on screws to hold them together. Just more small parts to fail, unscrew themselves, tools required to replace, etc.
If I break a trigger pin I can replace it with a 5.56 round and my hands, thats a big perk.
SW-Shooter
08-27-11, 15:15
Lot's of KNS haters, but the same thing could be said about Magpul and a large amount of other products that are deemed Tier One approved. I've never had any issue with them (KNS) on an old Bushmaster (:secret:) that has 9000+ rounds through it.
But let me add the Bushmaster is no longer a useful rifle for self defense because of "THE LIST", it sucks to own an obsolete AR.
It seems we have come back around to the Era of "The Gucci Gear" guys.:lol:
The real truth is know your weapon, in and out.
SW-Shooter
08-27-11, 15:20
I bought into them as well and unless you are going to be blazing full auto down the range I really don't think they are necessary I will never buy them again. I know POF puts them on and that is one reason why POF is the weight of 3 rifles.
Oh yeah, KNS pins weigh 3 lbs. Maybe because POF is Billet? Please don't be a Parrot. Bad Medicine wants a cracker.
SW-Shooter
08-27-11, 15:22
You may be surprised... but I agree with you.
I remember a thread recently that asked about the most hated rifle additions. I'll bet that one deflated a lot of egos. :)
One of the responses in that thread was something like "Guys that ask in a internet forum what should I buy/not buy for my rifle".
This thread qualifies under that premise. All that I am trying to convey is to make your own decisions. There is plenty of aftermarket junk out there with lots of respected names on it that don't add anything.
Each individual makes up their mind what that "junk" is.
Good, if not great post.
I couldn't get that junk out of there quick enough if I were you....
If for nothing else.... so you don't look like a homo.
KNS products are all pretty retarded.
hahaha, once again, markm brings the funny... :haha:
No downside, buy them for every lower you have!;)
wetidlerjr
08-27-11, 17:50
I couldn't get that junk out of there quick enough if I were you....
If for nothing else.... so you don't look like a homo.
KNS products are all pretty retarded.
That markm; always the sweet talker ! :D
Use them....don't use them...it really doesn't matter. They are light weight, seem to do what they advertise, and don't cost very much. I've yet to understand the hatred for KNS pins, but noone has an issue with levers mounted to bolt releases, selectors with screws in them, and replacement trigger guards that don't function the way they were designed. To say they'll be harder to take apart in the field??? I doubt the vast majority, 99.9% of ALL the rifles on this or any gun board will ever see past a range or at most a training class. If they were marketed by KAC and cost $300, they'd be mandatory for a "fighting carbine".
...If they were marketed by KAC and cost $300, they'd be mandatory for a "fighting carbine".
Like Triple Tap?
wolf_walker
08-27-11, 19:21
If they were marketed by KAC and cost $300, they'd be mandatory for a "fighting carbine".
True that.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Wormydog1724
08-27-11, 19:28
Use them....don't use them...it really doesn't matter. They are light weight, seem to do what they advertise, and don't cost very much. I've yet to understand the hatred for KNS pins, but noone has an issue with levers mounted to bolt releases, selectors with screws in them, and replacement trigger guards that don't function the way they were designed. To say they'll be harder to take apart in the field??? I doubt the vast majority, 99.9% of ALL the rifles on this or any gun board will ever see past a range or at most a training class. If they were marketed by KAC and cost $300, they'd be mandatory for a "fighting carbine".
Ditto.
To say they'll be harder to take apart in the field??? I doubt the vast majority, 99.9% of ALL the rifles on this or any gun board will ever see past a range or at most a training class.
It's apparent that you have this site confused with some others. Our users aren't typical of most gun owners that I have run in to in the last 15 years.
DeltaSierra
08-27-11, 19:36
I've yet to understand the hatred for KNS pins
If they don't do any good, then it is a waste of money.
but noone has an issue with levers mounted to bolt releases, selectors with screws in them, and replacement trigger guards that don't function the way they were designed.
I have an issue with all of these things that you mention. I won't use them due to concerns about reliability, as well as concerns about the added complication in field repairs.
If anti-walk pins actually prevented issues, I could understand the use of them, but I don't see what they do for the weapon, other than to add more complication.
If they don't do any good, then it is a waste of money.
I have an issue with all of these things that you mention. I won't use them due to concerns about reliability, as well as concerns about field repairs.
If anti-walk pins actually prevented issues, I could understand the use of them, but I don't see what they do for the weapon, other than to add more complication.
This is true. I have never seen a pin walk out. It could happen. The only tome I've even heard about it is in fa with a gun that should have been a paperweight anyway.
That being said, I have used them. Didn't see any improvement, but the psych was there from my "buddy" talking shit. Have sense removed them. They set in the parts bin waiting for another project. Maybe shrike? Hehehe
Who cares if these lower receiver ornaments are as worthless as tits on a boar...they flat out look badass!
KNS pins gaining value in M4C's eyes...those Mayan Bastards might be right about 2012:)
It's cheap insurance. I put them on my SBR lower since I'm married to this lower, I'll take any precautions I can get.
.
Where is IG when you need him???
.
They're window dressing in most applications. When using cassette triggers (like many drop-ins) they are better than e-clips and wonky pins (seen many of those fail).
In regards to failing in the field, two things:
1) Use loctite.
2) Any screw--any screw (on rail systems, light mounts etcetera) should be marked with a paint pen so any rotation can be easily visibly confirmed without tools.
8.7k rounds through one of my rifles with no loosening. Of course', I practice the above.
Had pin walk on a .308 lower. The "J" spring or whatever the hell you call it was not doing it's job in keeping the trigger pin from walking. Although the gun worked, I didn't like that after 300 rds, the pin would literally stick half-way out of the receiver.
Stuck KNS pins on there, stopped pin walk. Loc-tite on walking pins doesn't work. Probably could have called the manuf. to get a new hammer and J spring. But the KNS pins work.
$30 is about 100rds of ammo. If the KNS pins work for you, great, if your pins aren't exhibiting any walk, just use the factory pins and drive on.
IMHO the only down side really is cost--in my limited experience, I've only heard of ONE trigger pin breaking (thus necessitating field repairs). Such parts wear is pretty rare IMHO.
Field maintenance requiring pin removal could be caused by:
blown primer wedged in FCG
broken spring
hammer issues
trigger/sear issues
safety issues
There are quite a few moving parts that have been known to have "issues" from time to time. Likelihood of failure? Small, but possible.
I believe that someone in the recent Redback One class had KNS pins installed and suffered a blown primer that would not shake out -- stuck under/behind the hammer or trigger. Oddball for sure. Complete disassembly of the FCG was required to remove primer, and remedy the situation. This was done at the hotel.
A slot cut across the top of one the retaining screws would allow it to be loosened with the extractor lip of a cartridge.
Only one would need it done because if its not been over tightened to begin with, you can hold the trigger to the side a bit and it'll wedge the pin in such a way that it won't turn while working the screw.
Just sayin' :shrug:
IMHO, KNS pins were designed for lowers without of spec holes. This either happened at the factory or over time (typically with a FA lower).
So in the event that you have a lower with oversized holes, the KNS pins might be a good choice for you. If you do not, then I don't think you will gain anything.
C4
The problem is that you aren't fixing the problem which was a worn "J" spring. I am still waiting for someone to provide me some type of proof about all the lowers that have pin hole wear causing the pins to walk loose.
In almost every case the following is usually the cause;
1. Incorrectly assembled lowers.
2. Shitty ass parts.
3. Out of spec lowers.
I have seen M16's that were beat to shit and because they were assembled correctly with the correct parts they continued to function just like they were supposed to.
Had pin walk on a .308 lower. The "J" spring or whatever the hell you call it was not doing it's job in keeping the trigger pin from walking. Although the gun worked, I didn't like that after 300 rds, the pin would literally stick half-way out of the receiver.
Stuck KNS pins on there, stopped pin walk. Loc-tite on walking pins doesn't work. Probably could have called the manuf. to get a new hammer and J spring. But the KNS pins work.
$30 is about 100rds of ammo. If the KNS pins work for you, great, if your pins aren't exhibiting any walk, just use the factory pins and drive on.
IMHO the only down side really is cost--in my limited experience, I've only heard of ONE trigger pin breaking (thus necessitating field repairs). Such parts wear is pretty rare IMHO.
Really? Would you care to elaborate?
True that.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I have seen M16's that were beat to shit and because they were assembled correctly with the correct parts they continued to function just like they were supposed to.
+1
I have never seen a rifle that had walking pins due to being "used"
Every walking pin I've seen has been from junky LPKs, ****ed up J pin on the hammer, or mis-assembled LPK.
I use them and have no problems with them. I went with them because I also run 9mm and .22lr uppers on my SBR lower which can be hard on standard pins. I have broken too many trigger pins to not use them.
Have your 9mm bolt ramped.
Have your 9mm bolt ramped.
My 9mm bolt is ramped. Its actually the 22 conversion that seems to be the hardest on pins. Have broken 3 so far. Haven't had any issues with my KNS Pins.
ares armor
08-31-11, 16:10
*Warning* RANT post
I have them on one of the lowers that I made with a drill press and an 80% receiver. Yes the holes are just a little out of spec on it, But i made it with my own two hands so I don't really care that I look like a "homo" on the range with my KNS's. I think you look like a "homo" if you have a serial number on your lower!
"Oh no it will leave marks on my lower"; I spray painted (That's right, I went to walmart and SPRAY PAINTED) my whole god damn rifle... don't really care if KNS pins or any thing else causes scuffs or marks on my lower. show me your pretty rifle and ill show you an unused rifle and most likely a shitty shooter who owns it.
"But what about in-field repair" ; Firstly how many of you have actually shot and killed another human being in a firefight?!? If you haven't stop talking about the "field" because you have no idea what your describing. If you're weapon goes down that badly in the middle of a fight, find a new god damn weapon and worry about your messed up one later when you have some time. look up the citation for the navy cross awarded to Brian Chontosh. He ran out of ammo and started picking up enemy weapons instantly. Have a look at "The Chart" apparently having a staked castle nut is desirable. so does that mean that you don't plan on removing your buffer tube in case of an "in field" problem???? What if you need to completely disassemble your bolt carrier in the "field" Oh my god... what then?
If you are a POG, Zombie Killer or Carbine Class Commando Feel Free to Flame me for the above..
It doesn't have to be "field". It could also be in a training class or range training. In which case people are usually waiting for you to clear the issue before they continue or they continue and lose out.
When we had the issues with our BM's blowing primers on a fairly constant basis I would have been pissed had I had to deal with the whole KNS thing.
In your particular situation they are probably needed, not so for others who have a PROPERLY built lower. Which is what most of us have been saying from the beginning.
*Warning* RANT post
I have them on one of the lowers that I made with a drill press and an 80% receiver. Yes the holes are just a little out of spec on it, But i made it with my own two hands so I don't really care that I look like a "homo" on the range with my KNS's. I think you look like a "homo" if you have a serial number on your lower!
"Oh no it will leave marks on my lower"; I spray painted (That's right, I went to walmart and SPRAY PAINTED) my whole god damn rifle... don't really care if KNS pins or any thing else causes scuffs or marks on my lower. show me your pretty rifle and ill show you an unused rifle and most likely a shitty shooter who owns it.
"But what about in-field repair" ; Firstly how many of you have actually shot and killed another human being in a firefight?!? If you haven't stop talking about the "field" because you have no idea what your describing. If you're weapon goes down that badly in the middle of a fight, find a new god damn weapon and worry about your messed up one later when you have some time. look up the citation for the navy cross awarded to Brian Chontosh. He ran out of ammo and started picking up enemy weapons instantly. Have a look at "The Chart" apparently having a staked castle nut is desirable. so does that mean that you don't plan on removing your buffer tube in case of an "in field" problem???? What if you need to completely disassemble your bolt carrier in the "field" Oh my god... what then?
If you are a POG, Zombie Killer or Carbine Class Commando Feel Free to Flame me for the above..
ares armor
08-31-11, 17:29
In your particular situation they are probably needed, not so for others who have a PROPERLY built lower. Which is what most of us have been saying from the beginning.
The rifle in question is most definitely PROPERLY built. I know this because I shoot about 5k a month through it. When i point it at a target and pull the trigger a hole appears in the target. Therefore the weapon is properly built. I have had this rifle for 6 months with only the occasional malfunction. (due to magazine issues).
I view AR's as a tool. If it performs its function it is good. Function over form my friend.
I will agree though that most lowers do not need KNS's. but who really cares. The amount of hate that the KNS procures from the internet experts is almost amazing though. I do not run KNS' on lowers that I buy, Only ones that i dremmel on at some point in the process haha.
ares armor
08-31-11, 17:48
It doesn't have to be "field". It could also be in a training class or range training. In which case people are usually waiting for you to clear the issue before they continue or they continue and lose out.
You also did not address the issue that i see a lot of recommendations for a staked castle nut on here... what if you need to remove and replace your buffer tube during your class... what if, what if, what if. we can what if all day long.
What if you get struck by lightning while shooting? I propose a lightening rod rail attachment that will ground it out. it connects to the sky the weapon and the ground and has a rubber spacer.
What if a Bear wanders into your training area looking for food. You can't shoot it, you don't have a permit. I suggest getting a hunting license before going to shoot.
What if you bring your sister with you and she happens to get her period and has no tampon's... I suggest that we take one of the 57 different battery compartments that are on the weapon and stuff tampons in there just in case.
what if some idiot at the range has an ND into his own face. I suggest we make a rule that all ranges hire keep on staff a certified brain surgeon just in case we have to dissemble said idiots brain and put it back together quickly so we can continue training.
If you have a downed rifle that needs to have those pins removed. get off the line!
wolf_walker
08-31-11, 17:55
What if you bring your sister with you and she happens to get her period and has no tampon's... I suggest that we take one of the 57 different battery compartments that are on the weapon and stuff tampons in there just in case.
:D that was good stuff
A properly built rifle includes an IN SPEC LOWER...thereby not needing the completely useless KNS pins!
ares armor
08-31-11, 18:01
A properly built rifle includes an IN SPEC LOWER...thereby not needing the completely useless KNS pins!
As to your bear hunting analogy, I eat Bunnies, Not Bears.....
http://www.bunnyranch.com/newsletter/eatbunniesnotbears/CamiSpecial/
Nothing wrong with eating those bunnies...
Again though instead of the tampon for the sis bring some doxy for yourself ;) good stuff man.
jklaughrey
08-31-11, 18:01
Granted we can spin the bottle and play the "what if" game until we realize we are old, gray, and have erectile dysfunction. I think the point of contention is to minimize anything that may cause issue when using said tool. While there are times where certain items may be needed. This isn't the general rule. Less is more, simplicity equates to less shit to deal with. Now while Ares has a point, even done with humor. A staked castle nut has far more benefits being staked than it being un-staked. And while KNS pins may be needed by some lowers, (actual need) not window dressing. This reasoning should mean there should be far more lowers without pins than with pins. No one is hating on them just the majority perhaps has zero need for them. Cheers and God Bless.
ares armor
08-31-11, 18:09
A properly built rifle includes an IN SPEC LOWER...thereby not needing the completely useless KNS pins!
I disagree. a properly built rifle is one that shoots accurately and does not have malfunctions.
If it throws projectiles at objects you point it at and reliably does this every time that is all that matters.
If you spend 900 dollars on a weapon that does this or if you dig one out of the ground in the old soviet union that does this it is just dandy.
Again function over form.
You also did not address the issue that i see a lot of recommendations for a staked castle nut on here... what if you need to remove and replace your buffer tube during your class... what if, what if, what if. we can what if all day long.
What if you get struck by lightning while shooting? I propose a lightening rod rail attachment that will ground it out. it connects to the sky the weapon and the ground and has a rubber spacer.
What if a Bear wanders into your training area looking for food. You can't shoot it, you don't have a permit. I suggest getting a hunting license before going to shoot.
What if you bring your sister with you and she happens to get her period and has no tampon's... I suggest that we take one of the 57 different battery compartments that are on the weapon and stuff tampons in there just in case.
what if some idiot at the range has an ND into his own face. I suggest we make a rule that all ranges hire keep on staff a certified brain surgeon just in case we have to dissemble said idiots brain and put it back together quickly so we can continue training.
If you have a downed rifle that needs to have those pins removed. get off the line!
That's pretty silly. Are you done? It's not a matter of internet experts this, or face shooters that. Want to hear some facts? Some pretty hard face shooters say the KNS pins are making something simple, overly complicated. Giving them, at best, a neutral rating. At worst, a "Do-not-waste-money" rating. Some face shooters say "buy whatever the **** you want". Some say "buy them they're great".
Who cares?
Point remains that there are some salient points, absent emotion, of why they could be a detraction to your normal activity. They can also do exactly what they claim, which is great. Relax about it, for the love of God.
ares armor
08-31-11, 18:14
That's pretty silly. Are you done?...
...Who cares?
I am just having a bit of fun and trying to turn this into a joke. i'll be done soon ;)
I am just having a bit of fun and trying to turn this into a joke. i'll be done soon ;)
I can appreciate that, but let's all be in on the same joke. :jester:
Pick on something like my pistol shooting over 50yds....now THAT's a funny joke.
Eurodriver
08-31-11, 19:40
Guys, I'm sorry for making this thread.
I've actually already sold the lower/upper to a guy locally so I can get a Noveske switchblock upper as opposed to a BCM 11.5".
I don't even have the lower anymore, let alone the KNS pins that I removed.
Why so much hate? :big_boss:
ares armor
08-31-11, 19:50
I can appreciate that, but let's all be in on the same joke. :jester:
Pick on something like my pistol shooting over 50yds....now THAT's a funny joke.
what do you mean???!? you're not 1" at 100 with the Ber 9mm???
I suggest mounting a Light/Laser/Sling/Buttstock combo.
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