View Full Version : Your Emergency Ready, You've PreLoaded Your AR15 Magazines with what AMMO?
AuProspector
08-27-11, 22:44
I'm trying to figure out what ammo would be best (overall) to load my magazines, purchase a case of it, and practice with the remainder.
Scenario:
You have your AR15 ready for a SHTF/The Collapse/EOW (or whatever). You may have to 'bug out' or stay and defend your turf. What ammo have you preloaded your AR15 magazines with and why.
Thanks for your input.
Dionysusigma
08-27-11, 22:48
IMI M855. Reasons: it's decently accurate in my rifle, and the best I have...
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-27-11, 22:50
Good Factory Ammo milspec ammo. Usually 193. MR isnt a precision rifle, I'm not worried about loads, grains and what not.
2theXtreme
08-27-11, 22:53
I'm still in the process of collecting ammo and mags for the SHTF. I have a few mags of Hornady TAP FPD and a few mags of Hornady TAP Barrier. All mags are marked on all sides with what kind of ammo they contain. My pistol is loaded with Hornady Critical Defense and I have Winchester PDX1 boxes on the shelf too.
I'm also looking forward to the responses to this thread...see what everyone here prefers.
GeorgiaBoy
08-27-11, 22:53
Either NATO spec M193 or M855.
Nytcrawler93
08-27-11, 23:08
I don't think anyone taking a 5.56 is gonna complain about whether it was 45 grain or 77 grain. All of it will do the job. The key is to know what you have and the characteristics related to that load in that particular weapon. Knowing that your particular rifle is reliable with that load is first and second, knowing how accurate it can be.:alcoholic:
GrandPooba
08-27-11, 23:27
my AR is loaded with 64gr .223 Gold Dots. I have a few spare mags of those. Everything else is M193
decodeddiesel
08-27-11, 23:30
I have a few magazines (about 5 or so) of 5.56mm TAP T2, but the main share of my ammo stash is IMI M193. It is simply outstanding ammo.
3 OD pmags w/ Black Hills 5.56 50gr. TSX
MK318 for defensive purposes
M855/193 stockpile for training.
I would love to stock some IMI, but many online place don't carry IMI 194 or 855?
Where is the best place to buy?
PMC X-TAC 62gr in about 16 PMAGs. I prefer it over 55gr/193. 1k of it is in reserve. It's fairly accurate, affordable and I have never had any issues with it.
How about one of the highly effective general purpose barrier blind duty loads listed in the second paragraph here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881???
The first few mags are 65 gr SGK SP handloads, and the bulk is XM193. Working on some 60 Nosler Partition handloads but they are not finalized yet so sticking with the SGK for now.
They have slightly different POI but if it is an emergency I am shooting less than 100 yds and the difference is negligible. Beyond 150 yds (for what?) I would switch to the XM193 for which the rifle it is sighted.
Kustom_efekt
08-28-11, 00:51
M855 is in most of my mags. I do have a couple with hornady tap also
Mk318.
Because I know what it can do, and because I got handed a bunch of it for free. I like free. :D
My first 6 mags hold Hornady T2. The rest would get SS109.
O
Green tip & 193 for me. I'm going to develop a handload with 77grn SMK's soon. I have all the components just need to experiment.
Just a Jarhead
08-28-11, 03:08
Vast majority is xm193. Smaller supply of xm855 stored and even smaller supply xm 856 tracers.
My emergency load is two mags of Black Hills 75 grain, loaded 28 to a mag, one mag in the magwell, one mag in the Redi-Mod.
ETA:
I can't help but wonder what "emergency" some people are "loading" for.
Several mags loaded with Black Hills 50gr Barnes TSX
JeepDriver
08-28-11, 08:01
280 rds of 75gr TAP loaded and ready to go. Loaded those mags 3 years ago, still sitting in the go bag.
77 gr SMK OTM in front of 24.7 gr Varget.
TX Rancher
08-28-11, 09:24
XM223SP1 (62 grain) since it has good terminal effect and is relatively barrier blind. I live out in the middle of nowhere so I'm not that concerned about over penetration.
right now i have them loaded with american eagle black box
I've got about 4K of 55gr M193,so that's what's in my mags...:smile:
AuProspector
08-28-11, 12:46
I would love to stock some IMI, but many online place don't carry IMI 194 or 855?
Where is the best place to buy?
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9017&dir=18|830|845
OR
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|845
QuietShootr
08-28-11, 14:46
I'm trying to figure out what ammo would be best (overall) to load my magazines, purchase a case of it, and practice with the remainder.
Scenario:
You have your AR15 ready for a SHTF/The Collapse/EOW (or whatever). You may have to 'bug out' or stay and defend your turf. What ammo have you preloaded your AR15 magazines with and why.
Thanks for your input.
Mk262, all of the ready mags. Why, it's the most effective out of a 10.5" SBR.
My emergency load is two mags of Black Hills 75 grain, loaded 28 to a mag, one mag in the magwell, one mag in the Redi-Mod.
ETA:
I can't help but wonder what "emergency" some people are "loading" for.
I'm sure it varies according to how long you think an emergency may last. Hurricane/earthquake/flood looting may be days or a couple of weeks. Collapse of economy may take a wee bit longer to stabilize, and folks may be a tad more upset when the milk and honey stops flowing.
280 rds of 75gr TAP loaded and ready to go. Loaded those mags 3 years ago, still sitting in the go bag.
That's what it is all about. Hopefully they can stay loaded for many more years, but ready just in case. We don't know who is going to be faced with violence or other threat, or when. All we can do is be prepared so if we happen to be the unlucky Joe at some point we have better than average odds.
320 rnd of M855 w/62 gr SS109 (not sure of powder got at a gun show for $150)these are in 8 40 rnd shtf mags
100 rnd of Barnes 36 gr HP in front of 26.5 gr of Accurate 2230 my reloads in 5 mags of 20 rnd mags
100 rnd of Hornady 55 gr SP SX in front of 23.5 gr of Accurate 2230 my reloads in 5 30 rnd mags
100 rnd of Hornady 55 gr FMJ -BT in front of 25 gr of Accurate 2230 my reloads
100 rnd of M855 62 gr SS109 in front of 23 gr Accurate 2230 my reloads
40 rnd of XM856 64 gr American Eagle Tracers in box's
100 rnd PMC FMJ 55 gr
So as you can see I need to stock up more
for some reason my rifle doesn't like anything heavier than the 64 gr tracers if i go heavier they will sometimes keyhole at 100 yards or be way off POA not sure why this is but i normally shoot PMC's anyways
PA PATRIOT
08-28-11, 20:54
Currently all my magazines are loaded with Wolf 55gr Copper H/P's (Not the Bi-Metal) as this is the ammunition that I train with and all my irons and optics are set to this load.
While the Wolf is definitely lacking when compared to choices on DocGKR's list my guns eat this stuff like candy and I know exactly were it hits over distance so until I can afford to shoot the "Good" stuff for training and have my irons and optics set for it the Wolf will have to suffice for SHTF use.
Edited to add that most likely a shotgun loaded with #1 Buck and a Glock .45acp with HST's will come into play for home defense before the use of the AR.
AuProspector
08-28-11, 21:18
Currently all my magazines are loaded with Wolf 55gr Copper H/P's (Not the Bi-Metal) as this is the ammunition that I train with and all my irons and optics are set to this load.
While the Wolf is definitely lacking when compared to choices on DocGKR's list my guns eat this stuff like candy and I know exactly were it hits over distance so until I can afford to shoot the "Good" stuff for training and have my irons and optics set for it the Wolf will have to suffice for home use.
Shooting Wolf allows me about 5000rds of training a year so its more a cost/wife thing then a preference.:bad:
I don't want to hi-jack my own thread but...
FYI, Phila PD
All the Wolf ammo I've tried (55/62 grain) will seize up my AR15's action with a stuck case in the chamber and the rifle's action is really hot. It has happened repeatedly in 4 different AR's and 1 Steyr AUG.
In relatively slow fire practice, it has preformed well and some of the Wolf ammo was very accurate (55 FMJ camo boxes).
Also, I've found that it is extremely difficult to clean the fouling out of the actions. The ammo is 2009 mfg.
I have not tried the HP you've referred to. I don't want to sound 'preachy' but test fire your rifle and ammo until it's running hot.
Mk262, all of the ready mags. Why, it's the most effective out of a 10.5" SBR.
I'm sure you know the fragmentaion velocity threshold for this out of a 10.5", so I won't rehash it as if you didn't, but I'm more interested in why this is your choice? Why wouldn't you go with a barrier round as well?
For me, once I have my 10.5", my rounds of choice would be T2 for CQB/shooting in a structure and XM223SP1 for "patrol".
Currently all my magazines are loaded with Wolf 55gr Copper H/P's (Not the Bi-Metal) as this is the ammunition that I train with and all my irons and optics are set to this load.
While the Wolf is definitely lacking when compared to choices on DocGKR's list my guns eat this stuff like candy and I know exactly were it hits over distance so until I can afford to shoot the "Good" stuff for training and have my irons and optics set for it the Wolf will have to suffice for SHTF use.
Edited to add that most likely a shotgun loaded with #1 Buck and a Glock .45acp with HST's will come into play for home defense before the use of the AR.
Why not buy a case or two of the "good stuff", shoot a few hundred rounds of it to make sure it functions in your particular rifle, get a basic understanding of its trajectory inside 200 yds (which shouldn't be TOO far off of Wolf), set your irons and dot sight to this ammo, and just deal with the negligible POI shift/accuracy change that you will get with the Wolf when you train with it?
I keep most of my extras loaded with WPA 55gr ammo. This is what I practice with, have on hand most times and will do just as well in any situation were I need to pull a carbine out. You can spend the money on the M855 or barrier blind LE loads, but are you really going to need it?
I also don't consider my AR's a defense weapon, I would pull a handgun much more frequently than an AR.
I'm sure you know the fragmentaion velocity threshold for this out of a 10.5", so I won't rehash it as if you didn't, but I'm more interested in why this is your choice? Why wouldn't you go with a barrier round as well?
For me, once I have my 10.5", my rounds of choice would be T2 for CQB/shooting in a structure and XM223SP1 for "patrol".
I saw this earlier and ended up leaving it alone as I just got done talking shit about super duper MK262 mod 1 or the 77gr. SMK in another thread, however mk262 is far from the most effective rd. outta a 10.5" AR or any AR for that matter(terminal ballistics..not LR accuracy).
It has horribly unreliable fragmentation, but more importantly why not go with a rd. that is actually designed for SBR's like the Black Hills 50gr. TSX 5.56 load that I replied with in my earlier reply to the op's question. I based my pick on the fact that I'm using a MRP CQB 10.5" for my "emergency go to rifle/ammo".
MK262 has now trumped TAP T2 for the most over hyped internet ammo.
How about one of the highly effective general purpose barrier blind duty loads listed in the second paragraph here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881???
Does anyone know where you can buy the 64 gr Gold Dot bullets or 62 gr Fusion bullets as components?
I saw this earlier and ended up leaving it alone as I just got done talking shit about super duper MK262 mod 1 or the 77gr. SMK in another thread, however mk262 is far from the most effective rd. outta a 10.5" AR or any AR for that matter(terminal ballistics..not LR accuracy).
It has horribly unreliable fragmentation, but more importantly why not go with a rd. that is actually designed for SBR's like the Black Hills 50gr. TSX 5.56 load that I replied with in my earlier reply to the op's question. I based my pick on the fact that I'm using a MRP CQB 10.5" for my "emergency go to rifle/ammo".
MK262 has now trumped TAP T2 for the most over hyped internet ammo.
Based on reports, I would agree that MK262 is unreliable, but it could be worse I guess. My point was why he chose it as his sole round and not in conjunction with a barrier round. Wondering if he is only planning to engage within a certain distance or what?
Aside from the price, I decided against the TSX rounds due to the bullet grain being so different from my "close in" round of choice: TAP T2. With a 27 grn difference, the trajectories at distance would be way different as opposed to a 6X grn projectile. Granted, I have chosen two different rounds for different applications, but if I ever have to use one or the other outside of that role, I want it to be as close as possible without having to re-zero.
Not sure how T2 is "overhyped". It is definitely hyped in a big way, but I think it actually lives up to the hype in both performance and accuracy (which you show in your "light precision" thread). It should definitely be available to the public IMO...
Does anyone know where you can buy the 64 gr Gold Dot bullets or 62 gr Fusion bullets as components?
I haven't found either. The closest I've found is a 64gr Winchester soft point & a 60 grain Hornady soft point on Midway.
Since we're on component talk for a second...Do you, or anyone else, have an experience with the VMax bullets? I've got a decent amount loaded with more ready to be loaded. The ones I've loaded & shot are VERY accurate bullets, but I'm more so interested in the ballistic performance of them
Yeah, that is why I have been trying out the Sierra GK 65 gr SP so far. The only bonded bullet I can find are the 77 gr Sirocco. I would prefer to stay with 60-65 gr bonded and then migrate my practice ammo to M855 to have as close to same external ballistic performance.
The VMax bullets are thin jacket varmint bullets. Against humans they should blow up before penetrating very much, but I have not observed them in action. Supposedly the TAP ammo using VMAX bullets and they are well thought of so either those are two different bullets or the varmint bullets perform better than expected.
My ready mags hold Hornady 8162N (5.56 75 grain TAP)
More mags with Hornady LE .223 75 grain TAP (Orange Box, not FPD)
More mags with Prvi Partizan .223 77 grain OTMs
More mags with Prvi Partizan .223 69 grain OTMs
A couple mags of .223 62 grain Federal Fusion
I totally agree and I should clarify....T2 is my favorite round besides a vmax, however T2 has become my favorite round because of it's accuracy, rather than it's terminal effects as I've never had to shoot any living thing with it. T2 imho is a far better ammo than BH's mk262 mod 1. I just personally hate and now have become bitter about Hornady's decision to not sell that particular ammo to me any many folks like me.
We have T2 available. ;)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=8126N.
C4
I found some MK318 Mod 0 SOST...
What is the difference between the Mil version and the Commercial version?
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/500rds-556-federal-commercial-version-mk318-mod0-62gr-otm-sost-ammo/cName/223-556-hollow-point-ammo
PA PATRIOT
08-29-11, 19:50
I don't want to hi-jack my own thread but...
FYI, Phila PD
All the Wolf ammo I've tried (55/62 grain) will seize up my AR15's action with a stuck case in the chamber and the rifle's action is really hot. It has happened repeatedly in 4 different AR's and 1 Steyr AUG.
In relatively slow fire practice, it has preformed well and some of the Wolf ammo was very accurate (55 FMJ camo boxes).
Also, I've found that it is extremely difficult to clean the fouling out of the actions. The ammo is 2009 mfg.
I have not tried the HP you've referred to. I don't want to sound 'preachy' but test fire your rifle and ammo until it's running hot.
AuProspector,
I have shot the Wolf 55gr H/P exclusively for the past several years and have never had a broken/ruptured case or has one ever stuck in a hot chamber. I agree it will muck up an action over a course of a case of ammo fired but I'M religious about keeping a cleaned and lubricated gun so for the price savings its worth the extra effort.
****************************************************
Why not buy a case or two of the "good stuff", shoot a few hundred rounds of it to make sure it functions in your particular rifle, get a basic understanding of its trajectory inside 200 yd (which shouldn't be TOO far off of Wolf), set your irons and dot sight to this ammo, and just deal with the negligible POI shift/accuracy change that you will get with the Wolf when you train with it?
Ironman8,
I have tried three different 55gr loads from DocGKR list being the Fed 55 gr TBBC, Speer 55 gr Gold Dot, and the Fed 55 gr TSX and none of them were close enough to the Wolf were it would not affect my shooting in three gun events at my club. I would rather be dead on with less then idea ammo that lets me train/compete with precision over the course of a year then be sighted in with the good stuff which I'll never really shoot and be guessing with my training load.
The only reason I stay with the Wolf 55gr H/P is that it functions 100% and is accurate enough for how I train/compete. The Wolf 62gr version shoots larger groups in my guns or else I would have tried DocGKR's selected loadings in that weight.
Ironman8,
I have tried three different 55gr loads from DocGKR list being the Fed 55 gr TBBC, Speer 55 gr Gold Dot, and the Fed 55 gr TSX and none of them were close enough to the Wolf were it would not affect my shooting in three gun events at my club. I would rather be dead on with less then idea ammo that lets me train/compete with percussion over the course of a year then be sighted in with the good stuff which I'll never really shoot and be guessing with my training load.
The only reason I stay with the Wolf 55gr H/P is that it functions 100% and is accurate enough for how I train/compete. The Wolf 62gr version shoots larger groups in my guns or else I would have tried DocGKR's selected loadings in that weight.
Gotcha. The competition thing throws a wrench in my suggestion. For my uses (classes, personal practice, ect), it works for me, but I see where you're coming from. In that case, if you have the money then get a rifle that you designate as your "go-to" defense weapon (set up similar to your competition guns for consistency) and zero with the "good stuff". If you already have a rifle that you could use in this role then even better. You could do worse than the Wolf 55gr HP, but you could do a whole lot better too...
Phila has a pretty good plan IMHO, and he obviously trains quite a bit.
The old saying about how you rather be backed up by a guy like Jim Cirillo carrying a model 10 with RNL ammo than your average guy armed with the best available gun and ammo comes to mind.
And to quote Doc;
I would much rather go into battle with a guy who practices 15,000 rounds a year using generic 55 gr FMJ out of his old M16A1 than with some guy that has the latest state-of-the-art ammo and rifle, but only shoots 500 rounds a year.
If it were me I'd think about checking my dope with M193 and writing that down somewhere, you never know when the Russian stuff will dry up and you'll need to switch loads.
I currently have a supply of Federal Bonded, with a whole bunch of M193 to back it up.
For the record, I will be my own emergency supply if Beslan or Mumbai hits my town and I have shot up all of the good stuff.
RogerinTPA
08-30-11, 11:22
A few mags of Mk318 (working on more) and a quite a bit of Israeli IMI M193...It's good shit.
If you have cases of FMJ stacked up in the basement but don't have a half dozen mags loaded with something good, you threat matrix may be a bit off.
I can't understand the number of people preparing for the end of the world who ignore the more likely need/advantage of a few mags with good ammo for SD or limited breakdowns like a natural disaster or riot.
Several posts back some suggested that if you have a couple of ammo types to sight in a rifle/carbine for each. Simple idea that I had not thought through.
I have a few hundred rounds of 65 gr SGK handloads ready and some loaded into a couple of mags for each of my current two carbines for immediate emergencies. Both rifles are sighted in for this load. As long term back and practice I have lots of M193 and 55 gr handloads. When I shoot the 55 gr stuff it is off a little bit, but within 100 yds not enough to worry about. This works but I will try out the approach of sighting in one for the M193 and the other for the 65 gr SP. Within 100 yds they should both be accurate enough for SD with either load, but for target shooting out to 300-500 yds I would have one of each sighted in for the different loads.
Several posts back some suggested that if you have a couple of ammo types to sight in a rifle/carbine for each. Simple idea that I had not thought through.
I have a few hundred rounds of 65 gr SGK handloads ready and some loaded into a couple of mags for each of my current two carbines for immediate emergencies. Both rifles are sighted in for this load. As long term back and practice I have lots of M193 and 55 gr handloads. When I shoot the 55 gr stuff it is off a little bit, but within 100 yds not enough to worry about. This works but I will try out the approach of sighting in one for the M193 and the other for the 65 gr SP. Within 100 yds they should both be accurate enough for SD with either load, but for target shooting out to 300-500 yds I would have one of each sighted in for the different loads.
One more reason to have a serious use gun and a training gun that are identical in all but their application. Training gun sighted for training ammo, serious use gun sighted for serious use.
M855 is in most of my mags. I do have a couple with hornady tap also
This. Two mags of hornady tap and the rest is green tip M855.
m193 is my training ammo. and it's what I have loaded in my HD gun.
after looking at this chart from Pro-patria Inc. website, my walking-out-the-door mags are loaded with M855
http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/penetration.243182636_std.jpg
Just a Jarhead
08-31-11, 03:01
If you have cases of FMJ stacked up in the basement but don't have a half dozen mags loaded with something good, you threat matrix may be a bit off.
I can't understand the number of people preparing for the end of the world who ignore the more likely need/advantage of a few mags with good ammo for SD or limited breakdowns like a natural disaster or riot.
Thanks. You're absolutely right. With prepping there is so much to get and only so much disposable money. I do have cases of 193 & 855 but this served as the push. I'll wade through this thread & DocGkr's recommendations again. I know while the 855 is a better barrier breacher it also tends to leave clean holes and go right through humans. I need something more terminal. I will add that my bump in the night night stand weapon is my .45 which I also have oodles of Federal 230 gr. HST for so that one is good to go.
I found some MK318 Mod 0 SOST...
What is the difference between the Mil version and the Commercial version?
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/500rds-556-federal-commercial-version-mk318-mod0-62gr-otm-sost-ammo/cName/223-556-hollow-point-ammo
Unfortunately I've been unable to find out with 100% certainty the answer to this question but would also definitely like to know. It seems the brown box is .mil rejected and the white box is first run civilian/LE ammo but as to which is better and the specific differences???
Last year Molon did some of testing of the two versions of federal Mk318 and they seemed close in velocity and accuracy (neither was great). Has anyone pulled the components and weighed they powder and bullets for variance?
If one is a reject batch then it may just be cosmetic and nothing to do with performance quality.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-31-11, 16:17
I have 6 mags of 5.56 TAP T2 and then several thousand rounds of M193. I'm going to try and start slowly acquiring some Black Hills 55gr TSX and when I start hand loading I'm going to load a lot of the 55gr TSX. In the mean time, I may try and pick up some of the PRVI 75gr BTHP.
I pretty much only have XM193, feeds through my AR well and a local place carries it for a decent price so its all I ever buy.
handlebar1980
08-31-11, 20:57
they way i see it any ammo will work
they way i see it any ammo will work
That's like saying any knife will work as a steak knife...so why not use a butter knife to try to cut your steak? Be my guest, but I will use what is proven to be more efficient.
they way i see it any ammo will work
I'll refrain from being a dick here because I can only assume such a response can only be troll bait. I just hope that's not a real response.
they way i see it any ammo will work
I think a better way of wording it would be "Any ammo is better than no ammo", right?
I wouldnt exactly want to use steel cased Wolf if I were fighting for my life, but I'd rather have steel cased ammo than an empty magazine :p
PA PATRIOT
09-02-11, 21:35
I have a friend in Texas who uses nothing but Wolf .223 55gr Copper H/P's on wild pigs over the past five years and he states they tear up a pigs lungs. Now I have not seen this personally or am I endorsing the load for any use but the guy shoots a ton of pigs that damage crops in his area.
Until I can afford to stock and proof a AR with a approved load from DocGKR's list I can only hope that my steel case Wolf stays problem free, but at least if the above info has any accuracy maybe there is a chance the 55gr H/P may due something other then poke a straight hole Thur a bad guy in a SHTF event.
TAP 5.56 with T2& what ever else I have
This thread got me to to thinking so I reviewed my supplies and current costs of ammo and components. Back a year or two when even the cheapest ammo was $10/box I could reload much cheaper and it was easier to get bullets than ammo.
Now I see that while M193 has dropped to $7/box, the steel cased ammo can be found for $4/box. That is the same cost as my cheapest handload. So, as long as prices stay down like this I am going to switch to using Wolf or similar ammo for practice and plinking.
For self defense I had stocked up on 64/65 gr SP. reviewing the test results and browsing web stores it looks like the bonded bullets are significantly more effect when barriers are encountered, and there are a few sources of bonded bullet ammo now available. Unfortunately any form of bonded bullet component I could find is pretty expensive and narrows the gap between handload and factory. I can load something like the Nosler Partition for about $12/box, while Federal XM223SP1 is $10/box and most other brands and Mk318 are $18-$24/box. If I could find someone selling Speer GoldDot .224" bullets I might be able to load THAT cheaper, but I can't find any. For now at least, it looks like the XM223SP1 is the best value in the bonded bullet ammo.
So my plan is that as I shoot up my ammo I am going to replace the practice stuff with Wolf or similar (I have more than enough brass cases to last a long time). At 100 yds or less it should be good enough.
I am going to replace my "ready to go" mags for SD/HD from SP to XM223SP. And I am going to handload just for when I want to test new handloads for accuracy and for more precision shooting at longer distances. I will keep the remaining M193 and M855 for "reserves". Plink with Wolf, XM223SP1 for SD, and M193/M855 for cheaper brass reserves. Also, working toward getting all my primary ammo in the 60-62 gr range so I can sight in for that and be pretty much on with any of the ammo out to 200 yds.
Thanks for all the good discussion an ideas gents! Prices have been going up and down so much in the last three years that what was cheaper last year may not be so this year.
I too have found that it is cheaper to buy bulk then to reload...and a lot less time.
I currently have my "GO RIG" set up with 4 PMags and 2 in the rifle (I use a Redi-Mag) loaded with Wolf Gold Match (brass case and re-loadable) 75-gr. MHP - BT Ammo for my 14.5" Noveske N4. You really can't beat it for the price. I am getting 120 rounds of it, for about $65. Not bad for 75 gr HP match ammo. Not bad at all. ;)
Go big early or go home. :laugh:
handlebar1980
09-03-11, 14:46
[QUOTE=Blstr88;1089701]I think a better way of wording it would be "Any ammo is better than no ammo", right?
That's what I meant thanks for the clear up.
If your spending the money on steak you better be buying tender enough to cut with a "butter knife". But I could be a dick hear and explain quality meats but I won't just trying to get in on some conservation.
Now let's blog or tweet or whatever we do hear.
[QUOTE=Blstr88;1089701]I think a better way of wording it would be "Any ammo is better than no ammo", right?
That's what I meant thanks for the clear up.
If your spending the money on steak you better be buying tender enough to cut with a "butter knife". But I could be a dick hear and explain quality meats but I won't just trying to get in on some conservation.
Now let's blog or tweet or whatever we do hear.
If all you buy are cuts of steak that are tender enough to cut with a butter knife, then you should be able to afford better ammo...just sayin...
friendlyfireisnt
09-04-11, 15:44
I don't keep a lot of ammo in mags, but I do keep a few magazines loaded with Privi 75gr OTMs. This is my HD ammo, it's what my rifle is sighted in with.
I can't fault others for keeping more ammo loaded, I just don't personally see a need for me to. I have a hard time seeing a situation where I would need more than the 4 loaded magazines without having a chance to load up more.
I would like to stock up on the 50gr TSX, and switch my go-to mags to that, but for now the 75gr OTM's will have to do.
I can't fault others for keeping more ammo loaded, I just don't personally see a need for me to. I have a hard time seeing a situation where I would need more than the 4 loaded magazines without having a chance to load up more.
I do it for a couple of reasons:
1) It is a pain in the ass to load a bunch of mags for the range when someone comes visiting or I get some unexpected free time. It is really nice to have a range box with preloaded mags of different ammo all ready to go. I load them up when convenient and then when needed I just grab and go.
2) If you have a bunch of mags and ammo it takes up MUCH less space to store some of the ammo in the mags. Empty mags are BULKY. Since mags, especially for the AR15, are about the weakest link in the weapon it makes sense to me to have plenty on hand. I have been through two major shortages of mags lasting months or years. The first time I only had three mags. If one had crapped out I would have been sweating it. The second time I had dozens of mags on hand and was able to loan mags to new shooters just getting into AR15s. Nice. I have anywhere from 20-40 mags loaded at any one time just to save some space. That frees up about one ammo can not storing ammo by itself.
3) For most SD situation I figure 2-3 mags are plenty and that is what I keep with the rifle. Even if you don't need that many rounds if there is a malfunction it is good to have a spare mag or two to swap out. In fact, my SD mags are all 20-rounders as I find them much handier and still plenty of rounds for SD.
But, I do have a "grab and go" bag with several 30-rd mags. If a disaster happened and I needed to evacuate, I want some loaded mags ready to go. These are loaded with my SD ammo, not the bulk stuff I use for practice.
I decided how many mags and how much ammo I wanted on hand to get through dry spells, and then thought, "Hey, why store these separately when I can stuff the mags full of ammo and save space?" Then I started realizing how convenient it is to always have lots of full mags on hand.
The_War_Wagon
09-04-11, 18:16
I keep my carriers loaded with 69gr. Privi JHP's. Got about 200 more loaded primarily with M193 or M855. I DO have to get some decent 77gr. stuff for my new SPR though! :o
Just a Jarhead
09-05-11, 05:27
I keep my carriers loaded with 69gr. Privi JHP's. Got about 200 more loaded primarily with M193 or M855. I DO have to get some decent 77gr. stuff for my new SPR though! :o
200 magazine's or stripper clips?
I've got 2 ARs (one for me and one for someone else... most likely the wife or cousin) with 7 30 round mags of Hornaday 5.56 TAP T2 for each rifle. I also have 7 mags of Prvi Partizan M855 for each rifle.
Ideally, I would like to replace the Prvi Partizan M855 with more T2, but the stuff is expensive and extremely hard to find for joe-blow citizens such as myself. I buy it when I can find it.
I do it for a couple of reasons:
1) It is a pain in the ass to load a bunch of mags for the range when someone comes visiting or I get some unexpected free time. It is really nice to have a range box with preloaded mags of different ammo all ready to go. I load them up when convenient and then when needed I just grab and go.
2) If you have a bunch of mags and ammo it takes up MUCH less space to store some of the ammo in the mags. Empty mags are BULKY. Since mags, especially for the AR15, are about the weakest link in the weapon it makes sense to me to have plenty on hand. I have been through two major shortages of mags lasting months or years. The first time I only had three mags. If one had crapped out I would have been sweating it. The second time I had dozens of mags on hand and was able to loan mags to new shooters just getting into AR15s. Nice. I have anywhere from 20-40 mags loaded at any one time just to save some space. That frees up about one ammo can not storing ammo by itself.
3) For most SD situation I figure 2-3 mags are plenty and that is what I keep with the rifle. Even if you don't need that many rounds if there is a malfunction it is good to have a spare mag or two to swap out. In fact, my SD mags are all 20-rounders as I find them much handier and still plenty of rounds for SD.
But, I do have a "grab and go" bag with several 30-rd mags. If a disaster happened and I needed to evacuate, I want some loaded mags ready to go. These are loaded with my SD ammo, not the bulk stuff I use for practice.
I decided how many mags and how much ammo I wanted on hand to get through dry spells, and then thought, "Hey, why store these separately when I can stuff the mags full of ammo and save space?" Then I started realizing how convenient it is to always have lots of full mags on hand.
I used to keep a bunch of mags loaded like that. However, I had an issue with some ammo a while back & it changed my opinion on doing that. If I had say a squib, or double charge or something with a manufacturer I wouldn't have the box with the lot number. Or if you kept the boxes with lot numbers you'd be hard pressed to be able to accurately match the mag to the box with lot number. So now I just keep 4 ready to roll & leave the rest for me to load before the trip to the range, or when I get there.
Prolly a bit over cautious, but if there were an issue with the ammo I want to be able to square it with the manufacturer asap.
Moose-Knuckle
09-06-11, 03:21
In SHTF I'd opt for something in 7.62x39 but in the spirit of this thread and if I was limited too 5.56 I'd load up something in the 77 grain weight class form Black Hills, round it out with some IMI M855 for good measure.
PA PATRIOT
09-06-11, 16:51
I don't see it as a giant leap if we also discussed other calibers like the 7.62x39mm or such as long as its in the spirit of Emergency Ready, Your Preloaded magazines. Hopefully its ok with the O/P that his thread branches off a little.
Moose-Knuckle
09-07-11, 01:39
I don't see it as a giant leap if we also discussed other calibers like the 7.62x39mm or such as long as its in the spirit of Emergency Ready, Your Preloaded magazines. Hopefully its ok with the O/P that his thread branches off a little.
Currently my preloaded mags for my go to rifle are Bulgarian "double circle 10" Waffles loaded with:
http://www.hornady.com/store/7.62X39-123-gr-SST
PA PATRIOT
09-07-11, 16:17
20 Russian 30rd steel AK magazines loaded with Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP
Although I like the 7.62 really well, my go-to guns continue to be ARs in 5.56
I have better than 30 years shooting the AR/M16 system, and due to competion and such I am failry dialed in to the trajectory of the round out past 500 yards.
I know 7.62>5.56 for getting through cover, typically, but there are a great deal of considerations to think about other than what bullets goes through more of what material.
I do find the .300BLK exciting, getting AR ergonomics with AK ballistics is very cool.
Does anyone know if Phila's chosen Russian ammo has been gel tested?
I'd be curious if it was in fact a poor choice for defensive use.
I know from first hand experience that 5.45 gets through a shocking amount of residential construction and auto body sheet metal, even though it is not known for being a barrier buster like the 7.62
I got a couple boxes of Black Hills 5.56 50grain TSX on the way. So I will be going with three PMAGS loaded with that.
I got a couple boxes of Black Hills 5.56 50grain TSX on the way. So I will be going with three PMAGS loaded with that.
Wise decision brother.....esp. for a shorty:)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=75298&highlight=tsx
Yeah it is a fantastic load, but damn are they expensive. Thats why I'm sticking with three loaded mags of it for now...
MeanStreaker
09-15-11, 19:23
After thinking about this very question for awhile, I just picked up a few cases of IMI M193 from Wideners.
Tennvol12345
09-15-11, 21:53
5.56 TAP T2 (10 mags) and 62gr Barrier (3 x 20rd mags)
I have been thinking about this issue for a while. Thanks.
I posted a question in the Ammo section and got good by not very direct anwsers.
I just purchased IMI193 from Widners as well as some Black Hills 77gr and Hornady TAP
I had tried some factory reloads but they were very inconsistant and unreliable.
A few mags of 50gr TSX are always on hand, with a larger quantity of M855 kept as backup. I am actually debating which ammo to get next... adding some MK318 Mod 0 would be an option, but getting some more TSX is tempting. The change of point of impact within 200 yards is negligible between these guys.
Sadly, one doesn't get many 50gr TSX rounds for the cost of a full case of IMI M855...
Image Group
10-20-11, 02:04
I have the pointy ones in my mags with the shiny tips ;)
I've got a basic load of XM223SP and 9mm 124 HST. The rest is XM193 and some PRVI 9mm 115 Hps that were on sale at PSA. Are they any dealers selling the XM223SP in cases of 500 or 1K ?
Tinfoil on. I have 2 mags loaded for common weapons I don't own: 1911, FAL, G3, and a few more than 2 for the AK I don't have yet. Plus a few random boxes of ammo I pick up if I see on sale at a great price: 7MM Mag, .270, .30-06, 9x18, 380, . 40, .38SPL, .30-30.
I've got a basic load of XM223SP and 9mm 124 HST. The rest is XM193 and some PRVI 9mm 115 Hps that were on sale at PSA. Are they any dealers selling the XM223SP in cases of 500 or 1K ?
I assume you got your XM223SP1 from PSA? I picked up some there and I was planning to buy a lot more a few days ago but they're out. No more coming...I'm really bummed about that. At the price they sold it for, I don't think you could get more bang for the buck in a defensive load. I don't know where else it's even available, but if you come across it for a similar price, please let me know! I'll do the same for you if I find it. I believe the Fusion 223 hunting load is exactly the same, but it costs 50% more.
On topic: I have a few mags loaded with the above mentioned XM223SP1, and then a pile of mags loaded with M193. I planned to get more of the XM223SP1, but now I'm having to look at other options. I'm considering: Fusion 223, MK318, BH MK262, and BH 50gr TSX. Possibly looking at handloading some of my own.
M855 because that's what I train with, stockpile and sight in with.
I'm running TAP T2, very accurate.
loganp0916
02-03-12, 21:56
A little off topic, but:
Who sells IMI M855 to people under 21? Some online dealers only sell any ammo to ppl over 21 (ex. Aim surplus and widener's)
PA PATRIOT
02-04-12, 07:01
My current BUG in load out changed with the purchase of two cases of XM223SP1 sitting in a local gun shop.
20 30rd AR magazines with XM223SP1
20 Russian 30rd steel AK magazines loaded with Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP
10 Saiga 7.62x51mm 25rd Magazines loaded with Remington .308 150gr Bronze point.
Lots of cash tied up with the above magazines and ammo but I now have peace of mind that I would be deploying effective deterrents should a emergency defensive situation occur.
lifebreath
02-04-12, 10:39
Mk 318 and M855.
Either NATO spec M193 or M855.
+1: If the military adopted it for general issue, there must be good military reasons why. However specifically for hunting, there are better choices.
NATO spec M193 or M855 along with Hornady 75 gr. match, and anything else I might have.
Beat Trash
02-04-12, 16:11
Mk 318 and M855.
Add me to this same load out.
all of my mags currently loaded with M193 and 69 or 77gr HPBT.
for pure SHTF, M193 loaded on stripper clips, in bandoleers w/spoon attached. more loose in ammo cans...
Just thought I'd link this in case people were wondering about cheaper and/or more available options to TAP.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31574&highlight=prvi
PMC X-TAC, 55 & 62 grain, inexpensive and goes bang.
... I would prefer to stay with 60-65 gr bonded and then migrate my practice ammo to M855 to have as close to same external ballistic performance.
This (SE)Pilgrim agrees with that NWPilgrim. I've hit a couple of deer with the 64gr Winchester and Federal loads, and they impressed me. So for my "go-to" gun, I'm using some Federal 64 gr TRU (T223L) JSP. Will replace it with MK318 next month.
I'm not very confident in 55gr loads, but I have a beater AR with a 16 inch 1x9 twist barrel, that is loaded with old school 55gr JSP's. 27gr. of W748 gets me to 2800 fps with no signs of trouble. Will be loading up some 64gr JSP's when the 55's are gone, as the 1x9 twist Bushy is good to go with 64's.
Not completely sold on the 70 to 77gr loads yet... feel better in the 60 to 65gr range.
Use M855 for training... NEVER for anything serious.
ALPHA NACHO
02-04-12, 23:32
4 Pmag 30's: 77 grain Sierra Match Kings + 24.5 grains of Varget.
4 Pmag 30's: 52 grain Sierra Match Kings + 25.5 grains of Varget.
5 Pmag 20's: 75 grain Black Hills
NitroDave08
02-05-12, 04:35
http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt199/Nitro-tastic/Guns/FamilyKidsPacked.jpg
Everything out the door in <5 min
5 20rd mags of M855
10 30rd of Federal 55gr
500 rds loose Fed 55s
But the wife wants to join in with her Mini-14, haha
500 rds (80 in MWG Snail and 40 in 30rd mags)
This (SE)Pilgrim agrees with that NWPilgrim. I've hit a couple of deer with the 64gr Winchester and Federal loads, and they impressed me. So for my "go-to" gun, I'm using some Federal 64 gr TRU (T223L) JSP. Will replace it with MK318 next month.
I'm not very confident in 55gr loads, but I have a beater AR with a 16 inch 1x9 twist barrel, that is loaded with old school 55gr JSP's. 27gr. of W748 gets me to 2800 fps with no signs of trouble. Will be loading up some 64gr JSP's when the 55's are gone, as the 1x9 twist Bushy is good to go with 64's.
Not completely sold on the 70 to 77gr loads yet... feel better in the 60 to 65gr range.
Use M855 for training... NEVER for anything serious.
55 grain worked pretty well in the old days out of a M16 A1 in the old days. M855 works well if the target is wearing old Soviet style armor.
I have used 69 and 75 grain on vermin and deer to good effect.
I need to buy some MK318 and give it a shot.
I made myself some 5.56 tipped with handmade THV bullets. Have 1000 rounds or so made up, just in case the people I might be shooting at are wearing armor.
55 grain worked pretty well in the old days out of a M16 A1 in the old days. M855 works well if the target is wearing old Soviet style armor.
I have used 69 and 75 grain on vermin and deer to good effect.
I need to buy some MK318 and give it a shot.
Yeah I went through basic with a ratty old M16 A1 myself.
As to steel penetration... on A36 type steel I'm actually getting better penetration with the M193 round than I am the M855 at 10 to 100 yards. I assume it's the higher velocity at work, but not sure.
Have yet to get a deer to cooperate with some 75 or 77gr. bullet effectiveness testing... but I'm trying!
3 pmags of Black Hills 50gr TSX and the rest IMI M855
3 pmags of Black Hills 50gr TSX and the rest IMI M855
What are you getting for POI deviations between the two? I've found the 50 TSX to hit higher than others, but hold similar windage.
Various makes of M855 (Mostly Prvi, but several hundred rounds of Winchester White Box, LC)
Plus, some left-over practice ammo, usually remington umc or wolf
What are you getting for POI deviations between the two? I've found the 50 TSX to hit higher than others, but hold similar windage.
I was at the range today and from the limited shots (bought 2 boxes and had 10 left after filling 3 mags), they seemed a little high (maybe an inch higher )at 50 yards, but not bad.
rockmyglock
02-28-12, 22:12
Nosler Varmint 60 grain ballistic tips (with cannelure), in front of Hodgon Benchmark (can't remember the charge of the top of my head) in once fired Lake City brass.
pruitt0212
02-28-12, 22:56
Green tip in all my mags, the and some of the 68grn Hornady TAP Barrier in some of the other mags cuz I had a bunch on hand.
I have some 55 gr varmint loaded until I go to the range and get rid of it, but I think its silly to leave hundreds of rounds in mags. In a shtf situation, youll have a few days, hours, whatever to get nuts.
But IN an emergency situation, I have plenty of imi m855, and some mk318. I almost regret the mk318 stock, because I could have gotten almost triple the m855 for the same $.
Z71Silverado09
03-05-12, 21:36
I keep the rounds i reload ready to go, cause i know they are going to go boom when i pull the trigger.
The Magpul 20-rounder in the rifle is a combination semi-jacketed frangible (RRLP) also known as "brown-tip" with every 4th round, red tracer. I have 3 of those in the ammo vest for urban dense population situations.
A couple 30-round mags have Hornady TAP L.E. loads alternating with green-tip penetrator. These are for barricade and vehicle threats.
Fairweather8588
03-10-12, 20:44
As long I as can keep finding it locally, Mk318, then M193
Voodoo_Man
03-10-12, 21:20
first gen wolf 55gr.
:lol:
first gen wolf 55gr.
Funny, I shot 150 rounds of 75gr. HP poly-coated Wolf ammo today. I wanted to get rid of my pile of miscellaneous ammo I had laying around from the last shortage, cough, election year, cough. All of it ran properly in 4 different uppers, and was quite accurate.
I also shot some S&B 62gr. Green Tip and Privi-P 75gr. Match :neo:
That shooting that lacquer-coated shit was like smoking crack.
Voodoo_Man
03-11-12, 08:19
Funny, I shot 150 rounds of 75gr. HP poly-coated Wolf ammo today. I wanted to get rid of my pile of miscellaneous ammo I had laying around from the last shortage, cough, election year, cough. All of it ran properly in 4 different uppers, and was quite accurate.
I also shot some S&B 62gr. Green Tip and Privi-P 75gr. Match :neo:
That shooting that lacquer-coated shit was like smoking crack.
The old steel cased ammo sucked, by old I mean two years + back. I shot around 1300rnds of 62gr wolf HP through my SCAR at a class recently, not a single issue.
One 20rd pmag with some Horndy tap, the rest xm193.
PA PATRIOT
03-11-12, 14:57
Question for those who have more then one type of ammunition for defensive and storage use for their selected firearms.
While its highly unlikely one would burn through a single high capacity magazine during a non-SHTF defensive situation I would like to ask those who only keep one or two Hi-Cap magazines of high end defensive ammunition what happens when the SHTF and you burn through your very limited supply of premium ammo?
Do you have pre-marked settings on your optics were you can just dial in your storage ammo and the same for your irons?
Noticed a few of my friends had failed to do this and the lack of accuracy depending on what shift of impact there is between your premium and storage ammunition could place one at a tactical disavanage.
Battle*Hound
03-11-12, 18:12
M193 or M855
Beat Trash
03-11-12, 18:45
Phila PD, good question.
My "go to" magazines are currently loaded with 62gr MK318. The fall back ammo is 62gr M855. The difference in the point if pact for these rounds is close enough that I don't worry about it. But then I don't use a magnified optic. I use Aimpoint RDO's.
My Agency is in the process of switching from the Winchester 55gr silver tip round to the Winchester 62gr 5.56 FBI contract load for the issued duty round. Once the new round is available for individual officer purchase, I plan on keeping this loaded up as my "go to" round. Both for at work and for when on my own time. The point of aim difference between these three 62 gr loads isn't enough to concern me when I consider the engagement distances I'm training for (under 100 yds).
I tested my gun at 50yds when I was sighting in a new 2moa Aimpoint T-1. When sighted in with IMI M855, the 55gr 5.56 (q3131a) was about 1-1.5" low. Hornady 55gr 223 steel case practice ammo was about 2-2.5" low.
I agree with the point you're making. It would be nice to know the point of aim vs. the point of impact of the round you would be using. During an actual SHTF incident would be a bad time to have to ponder the answer to that question
PA PATRIOT
03-11-12, 19:25
I keep all of my go to guns optics color coded on the adjustment dials for the different loads I use during the year.
I color the notch/click mark on the adjustment dial with a touch of finger nail polish.
Yellow for XM223SP1...62gr
Orange for IMI M855...62gr
Neon Green for IMI M193...55gr
Neon Pink for Wolf Copper H/P...55gr
I keep a small laminated card on the left side of the mag well and I can adjust (Just move the adjustment dial to the color which matches the loading I happen to be shooting) and I'M dead on to make precision shots without guessing POI between my defensive, training and storage loadings with a single rifle.
I also do the same with windage on my rear Iron sight and add or subtract clicks from a neutral leveled front post.
No need to guess or use Kentucky windage with this simple system.
Yellow for XM223SP1...62gr
Orange for IMI M855...62gr
Why the diff.? Price? Just curious. Also, yeah, keep off the nail polish. Male LE looks gay in nail polish.
PA PATRIOT
03-11-12, 20:26
Why the diff.? Price? Just curious. Also, yeah, keep off the nail polish. Male LE looks gay in nail polish.
XM223SP1...62gr Soft point was $9.99 per 20rds (I paid $10.99 when I was able to find it) and is a barrier blind approved defensive loading from DocGKR 's list which is now sold out at every vendor who sold it.
IMI M855...62gr FMJ is $10.00 per 30rds and is considered to be one of the best M855 quality wise on the market. I use it for training and storage ammunition.
Point of impact with XM223SP1 in my main Go To Rifle shifts 1.8 inches down and 1.1 inches right at 50 yards when compared to the point of impact of IMI M855. There is a greater POI change at 100yds between the two so when shooting one or the other a simple pre-marked adjustment keeps me dead on target.
Nice thing about nail polish is that it stays were you put it and is water proof. Its better for my eyes to pick up in low light with the bright colors.
Plus my Rifle has a female's name and likes to dress up from time to time!:D
Noticed a few of my friends had failed to do this and the lack of accuracy depending on what shift of impact there is between your premium and storage ammunition could place one at a tactical disavanage.
I shoot loads against each other to assess POI deviations and file the info away. This gives me a zero with the primary load, and an approximation with a contingency load. In several examples, I found groups from different loads that hit different points, but could still be covered by a 4 MOA dot.
For close range work, there's the example below. 40rds of various duty loads, 52-75gr, a little more than a round per second, AR6720 w/ T1, at 50yds. The inner circle is ~4". At 100yds, these were still within a basketball. Not ideal, but functional. If I hunkered down and gave it more effort, the dispersion would be even smaller.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Colt%20AR6720/374a4065.jpg
A true zero is optimal, but let's be realistic: Is a shooter of enough ability to even produce a POI deviation between two loads? Then, under stress in conflict?
alienb1212
03-12-12, 13:18
A true zero is optimal, but let's be realistic: Is a shooter of enough ability to even produce a POI deviation between two loads? Then, under stress in conflict?
Easy to debate all that crap now, doubtful it's going to make any difference when it actually happens. You hit the nail on the head.
Great point and excellent photo illustration of it.
At real civilian self defense distances most differences in ammo types is not significant enough to diddle with. Test your ammo and adjust to get them within acceptable group without changing the sight. For longer distances you likely have more time to use a specific ammo the sights were set for, or to make the necessary adjustment to sights for that load.
The main thing is to practice enough with all the ammo you have so you are confident in where it will hit at the likely distances when it matters most.
alienb1212
03-12-12, 13:36
Exactly. I'm going to do what I can to transition to a bolt gun for anything more than 300m anyway, I'd rather worry about hand loads and ammo types on that platform, and concentrate on just having ENOUGH rounds so I can put a few more into the "zombie" rather than hope for a disabling shot in the head or vitals in my carbine platform. If you've got the money for purchasing 1000's of good-quality self defense ammo, have at it, but for me I'd rather spend my cash on having plenty of "good enough" to get me by when 95% of my neighbors/hostiles or whatever have little to none.
rockmyglock
03-12-12, 13:48
Exactly. I'm going to do what I can to transition to a bolt gun for anything more than 300m anyway, I'd rather worry about hand loads and ammo types on that platform, and concentrate on just having ENOUGH rounds so I can put a few more into the "zombie" rather than hope for a disabling shot in the head or vitals in my carbine platform. If you've got the money for purchasing 1000's of good-quality self defense ammo, have at it, but for me I'd rather spend my cash on having plenty of "good enough" to get me by when 95% of my neighbors/hostiles or whatever have little to none.
What happens when good enough isn't good enough????
In all seriousness though, I handloaded my 60gr Noslers because I was able to do so for the same price as buying M855. Heavier ballistic tip for the same price as ball, that made the decision.
I don't have the targets scanned yet, but I recently shot XM193, the Speer GDSP 5.56 (24455), Speer .223 GDSP (24446), and the BHA 5.56 50 TSX for POI deviations out of duty Colts with RDSs.
Relative to the XM193 impacts, at 50yds, the 24455 was ~1" low, the 24446 slightly lower than the 24455, and the TSX was ~1" high. The 24446 wanted to go right a little, but the TSX and 24455 were true to windage.
The 24455 and XM193 was great pairing.
NitroDave08
03-12-12, 15:16
855 in 5 Colt 20 Rd mags. One for the weapon and the others in a 4 mag pouch. And a .50cal can with 10 PMag 30 rounders.
PA PATRIOT
03-12-12, 19:23
Don't get me wrong I'M not talking about changing POI settings during a fire fight as I would also just keep slapping magazines into the AR as hostile lead flys. Most same weight 5.56 and .223 ammunition will shoot close to minute of torso out to 100yds but what happens past that distance or you have to fire at target which offers limited exposer?
My theory is once you shoot up that limited amount of Premium ammunition one could adjust their preferred rifle for more accurate fire at all distances with the remaining non premium ammunition you now have loaded into your magazines.
Also depending on were one lives many will have extended engagement distances and will need the extra accuracy to make hits past 100yds. I personally use 2 MOA Aim Points with a swing out 3X magnifier were a exact zero would prove beneficial.
I'M not saying this system is a must for every shooter as SHTF situation's will vary depending on location. But every little tactical advantage you can give yourself during a SHTF engagement could be a life saver.
i use m855/ss109. the 62gr goots good through my 1/7twise barrel. also in a shtf sitch im not to worried about over penatration in some cases would need it. also rember some times the best shot you will take is the one you dont fire. try to keep away from (shoot outs) just shareing things ive learned from service
Just before I rolled out of the house I took stock of my ammo situation. In the safe I have about 60 magazines or so all loaded with M855 and some mixed with M856.
I also have ammo cans with speciality ammo (SSA 77gr., Hornady TAP T2, Federal .223 63gr. SP) and left over M855 etc... All the magazines with TAP T2 are kept in a chest rig that I can grab.
If I burn through all of those then it's on to the other mags and the ammo cans. In reality if I burn through 13 mags of TAP T2 then I am screwed in a big way. I don't care how the mags are marked to be honest because it's a non issue.
I'd agree pal, if 13 mags of T2 doesn't solve your problem...you might just be f**Ked.
All MK262:
I have 20 magazines with 28 rounds each of MK262 stored in ammo cans, 20 more in my Mystery Ranch bag (some of you dorks would call it a BOB), another 1200 rounds MK262 loose locked up, 6 mags on my PC, and 1 in my go-to gun.
So ~2,500 rounds of MK262 is what I keep on hand. I rotate shooting the oldest lots as I get more and continually replace the stash.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.