View Full Version : Quick fix for the Serpa Holster
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 09:31
I've been reading alot of reports about people shooting themselves when using a serpa holster. :blink: So, I decided to try and come up with a quick fix for folks that might be shying away from the serpa for this reason. So, here's what I came up with...
Remove the pin holding the lock button using a small tool to grab and lever it out of position.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7domy_O73io/TlpK8qD3QII/AAAAAAAAIyQ/Ly4__Bmv6AU/s1024/DSC02398.JPG
While dis-assembling the lock, pay attetion to the orientation of the spring for re-assebly ease.
This flat edge is where I removed material because this is the part that blocks the trigger guard to prevent withdrawl of the pistol.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O_G7G0yTgc4/TlpQ9zq5WpI/AAAAAAAAIys/ExSWCs6d8es/s1024/DSC02399.JPG
After a little re-profiling of that flat edge and numerous test fittings, I ended up with this.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-28Uli7i96z8/TlpPPHHPXCI/AAAAAAAAIyo/-tqisEjTzsY/s1024/DSC02401.JPG
The end result is a serpa that still functions as before, but will also allow the pistol to be drawn without pressing the release. I removed material slowly and re-assembled several times untill I was happy with the amount of tension that had to be overcome in ofder to draw the pistol.
-Matt
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[SIZE="2"]
The end result is a serpa that still functions as before, but will also allow the pistol to be drawn without pressing the release.
:confused: Does it still retain the pistol? I interpret "will also allow the pistol to be drawn without pressing the release" as the holster is now a non-retention holster, as in just draw the pistol without an intermediate step. Just curious.
My fix for a Serpa was called a (deleted so as to keep the thread on track). ;)
Guns-up.50
08-28-11, 09:40
Never have been a big fan of the serpas. So the lock is no longer functioning? So couldnt you just buy the cqc with no lock i think im a little confused.
Guns-up.50
08-28-11, 09:42
[QUOTE=DWood;1086265
My fix for a Serpa was called a Safariland. ;)[/QUOTE]
+1
i like mine
It sounds like he profiled the lock enough that there is enough tension to still retain the weapon, but he is able to pull the weapon from the holster without depressing the button.
Raven Concealment Systems (http://www.ravenconcealmentsystems.com/) also have a great fix for the serpa.
I am not discounting the serpa hate nor claiming it is the best holster ever. But considering there are MILLIONS of them in service around the country, yea, shit is going to happen. Law of averages says some one is going to ND or shoot themselves. I have never accidently put my finger inside the trigger guard or seen anyone do that. My weapon has never been locked inside of it or whatever. I don't care that I can't put my weapon back inside of it backwards.
It bothers me when I see top level instructors "banning" serpa holsters from their classes. How many soldiers and law enforcement agents don't have a ****ing say in the matter? I'm not saying they wouldn't make an exception, but it seems strange and hypocritical for many of "them" (not calling anyone out) to preach shooting the same weapon as most of their students, and then turn around and "ban" the most common holster in service.
/rant
/flameon
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 10:58
It sounds like he profiled the lock enough that there is enough tension to still retain the weapon, but he is able to pull the weapon from the holster without depressing the button.
You got it! ;)
I am not discounting the serpa hate nor claiming it is the best holster ever. But considering there are MILLIONS of them in service around the country, yea, shit is going to happen. Law of averages says some one is going to ND or shoot themselves. I have never accidently put my finger inside the trigger guard or seen anyone do that. My weapon has never been locked inside of it or whatever. I don't care that I can't put my weapon back inside of it backwards.
It bothers me when I see top level instructors "banning" serpa holsters from their classes. How many soldiers and law enforcement agents don't have a ****ing say in the matter? I'm not saying they wouldn't make an exception, but it seems strange and hypocritical for many of "them" (not calling anyone out) to preach shooting the same weapon as most of their students, and then turn around and "ban" the most common holster in service.
/rant
/flameon
From what I've seen.....if you are Mil/LEO and a serpa is your issued holster, trainers will allow you to run it.
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 11:08
My fix for a Serpa was called a Safariland. ;)
That works too, but I'm one of those people who tries to find a solution to a "problem"(not that I've ever had a problem with the serpa), before 86ing something. Heck, I'll re-engineer a pop-rivot if it doesn't meet my needs. Plus... I like taking shit apart.:D
I didn't post this to start some littlie contest between holsters, so take that mess somewhere else please. I simply posted MY solution. Thank you, very, much, gentle-men.:big_boss:
-Matt
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brzusa.1911
08-28-11, 11:18
I am an avid proponent to avoid Serpa Holsters. I had one a long time ago for a couple of hours, went back to the store and returned it.
The main problem I see is the possibility the spring will fail and the weapon will be stuck requiring the use of tools to remove. Imagine you need to draw your gun and the broken "safety mechanism" prevents you from doing it.
That works too, but I'm one of those people who tries to find a solution to a "problem"(not that I've ever had a problem with the serpa), before 86ing something. Heck, I'll re-engineer a pop-rivot if it doesn't meet my needs. Plus... I like taking shit apart.:D
I didn't post this to start some littlie contest between holsters, so take that mess somewhere else please. I simply posted MY solution. Thank you, very, much, gentle-men.:big_boss:
-Matt
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All right, should have known better, the Safariland comment was followed by a wink, so I presumed all would know it was meant as humor, not to start another VS thread. I will remove it now. (done)
I still don't understand how this is a retention holster with your mod if you can draw the pistol without pushing the button. Will this meet specs for anyone requiring a retention holster that does not allow drawing the pistol without activating another device, whether it be with a thumb or index finger?
Just trying to learn something.
It bothers me when I see top level instructors "banning" serpa holsters from their classes. How many soldiers and law enforcement agents don't have a ****ing say in the matter? I'm not saying they wouldn't make an exception, but it seems strange and hypocritical for many of "them" (not calling anyone out) to preach shooting the same weapon as most of their students, and then turn around and "ban" the most common holster in service.
/rant
/flameon
The most common holster in service would probably have to be the M12 because it is SL-3 to the weapon. The most commonly bought holster, because the M12 sucks, is the SERPA because it is stocked at the PX. By the time people realize they screwed up getting it, they don't have enough interest in spending money on another one and just put up with it. That or they never have fired their pistol past the initial qual and about 100 rounds a year during requal, none of which requires a draw from the holster (at least for the USMC qual).
How many soldiers/Marines go out and train or show up to a class with a beretta? How many of them that actually might have the opportunity to use them actually have them issued? They certainly do not have the ability to just draw it from the armory for the weekend.
The point of anyone in the military being stuck with a SERPA is kind of BS. So is the notion that most service members that own pistols own berettas. I say this because the SERPA is weapon specific and if they were to use the "issued" holster at a class they would have to have the duplicate weapon.
It is possible that units have bought SERPAs for their entire battalion but as far as it being a program of record or approved by PP&O (for the USMC side of the house) it is not.
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 11:59
All right, should have known better, the Safariland comment was followed by a wink, so I presumed all would know it was meant as humor, not to start another VS thread. I will remove it now. (done)
I still don't understand how this is a retention holster with your mod if you can draw the pistol without pushing the button. Will this meet specs for anyone requiring a retention holster that does not allow drawing the pistol without activating another device, whether it be with a thumb or index finger?
Just trying to learn something.
I knew your implication of that comment was in jest. I was simply clarifying my intent of this thread. All is well.
If you are requiring a retention holster - Do not do this!
It still physically retains the pistiol, but the tension can be easily overcome with a firm draw. If you choose to depress the button, you can do so and the pistol can be withdrawn as with a normal serpa.
-Matt
-------------------
Thanks Matt, that was what I thought you meant, but was not sure.
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 12:24
I like Serpa's, Ive got two of them, one for an M9 and one for my G21.
Like the pistols themselves, theres ALWAYS gonna be somebody hatin on your choice of gear.
**** em.
I run what I know works, period. MOST people who say they " dont like Serpas"..."theyr unsafe", blah blah...have never even tried one, they are just repeating something else some other jackwad repeated, who in turn got it from yet another assclown.
I dont think is anything in the gunworld that is PERFECT. People blaming the holster for ND's is like blaming crime on guns. Its the MIS-USE of the product causing the problem.
Also, there is a ton of outright LIES about the Serpa...all the way down to "it aint American made". Well, MY two are.
So, those of you wanting the Serpa, buy it, train with it, use it. If it aint your cup of tea fine.
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
As Matt noted, this is not a thread on the pros or cons of the holster. That was a wasted rant. :)
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 12:45
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
If you are that fast, you need to get Blackhawk to sponsor you.
theblackknight
08-28-11, 12:50
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
DUDE! are you shooting from retention? I want video of this. .6 out of the holster to press out?
Quiet-Matt: Were I ever in the unfortunate position to be mandated to use an issued Serpa holster, I would perform a similar modification like you have demonstrated. According to Straight Shooter, I must be a jackwad assclown who is f'd-up as I truly despise Serpas. As a result of the consulting I've done for a wide variety of LE and military groups, I got to travel around the country and observe numerous end-users and see what equipment functions and that which is less than adequate. I've seen FAR too many Serpas utterly fail during training, preventing the user from drawing their pistol. I eventually coined the term Serpa Death to fully illustrate what can occur in the real world if a Serpa fails during a critical incident on duty or during a combat mission. If a Safariland 6004 SLS mechanism gets jammed up and won't open, it is just a quick slash of a knife to get the pistol back into action--with the Serpa, the holster has to be laboriously dismantled. Thankfully, despite what was mentioned earlier in the thread, when looked at in aggregate, there are far more Safarliand holsters on duty than Serpas.
I know which holsters I will recommend to individual end-users, agencies, and units...and they are not Serpas.
Of course you may think I am just some flaming blow-hard idiot on the internet who probably does not know what he is talking about, so feel free to ignore my comments...
I just ripped the inside catch on mine off with a multitool and did the retention screw up to retain the pistol so it would do what the OP describes. It's an OK holster now. I didn't want the catch working at all so I could break the habit of pressing that dang button.
Using the CQC and adjusting the screw tension , doesnt that pretty much accomplish what you did with the Serpa?
GermanSynergy
08-28-11, 13:41
Thanks for posting this. It really made my day.
I like Serpa's, Ive got two of them, one for an M9 and one for my G21.
Like the pistols themselves, theres ALWAYS gonna be somebody hatin on your choice of gear.
**** em.
I run what I know works, period. MOST people who say they " dont like Serpas"..."theyr unsafe", blah blah...have never even tried one, they are just repeating something else some other jackwad repeated, who in turn got it from yet another assclown.
I dont think is anything in the gunworld that is PERFECT. People blaming the holster for ND's is like blaming crime on guns. Its the MIS-USE of the product causing the problem.
Also, there is a ton of outright LIES about the Serpa...all the way down to "it aint American made". Well, MY two are.
So, those of you wanting the Serpa, buy it, train with it, use it. If it aint your cup of tea fine.
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 13:47
DOC-
YOU are are high speed operator. Im not. In YOUR world Im sure the Serpa dont cut it. In mine, and most others...it does.
I absolutely know that your experiances are greater than mine, but you, anda handful more, are the exception.
Looking back on my post, I see that I DID put my foot in my mouth, and over-reacted. MY APOLOGIES.
However, I stand by my claim that the Serpa is an affordable, workable, useable holster for the EDC man/woman, and with proper training and practice is a good holster.
Oh- I did the draw in front of several witnesses a few months ago, I guess with some difficulty I could get names/numbers to verify if need be.
See, this is what Im talking about, if SOME of you cant do it, hasnt seen it before, then NO ONE can do it.
Thats why I do my own thing and rarely take advice from "the internet".
Also, in closing, I own Safariland holsters too. They ARE nice. But I GAURANTEE in a few months, they wont be the HOLSTER OF THE DAY, something else will, and then we will be reading all the hate about how sorry the Safariland is. Such is the internet.
FailureDrill-P099
08-28-11, 13:49
I have carried one off duty and as my instructor rig since 2004. I have not had one issue. I know 30 or more guys carrying them as well since then and never heard anything negative.
DUDE! are you shooting from retention? I want video of this. .6 out of the holster to press out?
here's your video, but it's Todd Jarrett ( at 1:01) who's happy with .77 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM9HFjN4tWE&feature=related
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 14:02
GOOD FOR TODD JARRET!!!
Im SO happy for him!!
He needs a little work to beat me, though.
GermanSynergy
08-28-11, 14:09
You say you're not high speed, but you "beat" Todd Jarrett. That's quite an accomplishment. Don't sell yourself short.
GOOD FOR TODD JARRET!!!
Im SO happy for him!!
He needs a little work to beat me, though.
I am only a high speed operator......in the operating room.
But I do pay attention to what guys I know and respect tell about their OCONUS combat tours. I do watch what goes on in CONUS LE agencies and training venues. Time and time again, the holster with the most prevalent and dramatic problems is the Serpa--to paraphrase a friend of mine, in my world that is called a clue...
I appreciate the OP's desire to look for solutions to a problem, but in reality cutting out one lump does not cure the cancer.
Again not to discount the OP and his intent for the thread, but purely for the Serpa and the potential finger and / or fouling or lock up issues we still need to consider the fact that the holsters are easily separated from belt mounts during your typical weapon retention types of drills. All of which I have tested and participated in doing such tests. Leaving out the finger issue, these other factors alone are good enough reasons for "critical use" types to avoid the platform altogether.
I will easily admit that I too have clicked off some extremely fast times using my Serpa holsters and have never shot myself in hundreds if not thousands of draw strokes. But speed isn't everything and I will get to that in a minute. I also noted that when pushing extremely fast speeds, my dexterity for my finger release is not as quick and reliable with a straight index and indeed I start to curl the finger to press with the pad of my finger for better speed / reliability. Of course I will say that not everyone's hand or finger size is the same, nor is their dexterity the same and many may not have the same issues as others, but we cannot discount that these bio-mechanics may come into play for some users.
Back to the speed topic and the ability to draw quickly is not the only factor when chosing a critical use holster. We need to consider retention of the weapon, which means not only how the holster retains the weapon, but how well the platform attaches itself to the user and of course the users techniques play a role. However if we purely look at how secure the holster remains attached to the user, the Serpa fails horribly IMO. It doesn't take much effort to remove the holster from the users hip and that is not acceptable. Any person that actually witnesses how easily the entire holster and weapon is easily ripped from a users hip is usually shopping for a new brand of holster set up asap.
So IMO, the holster has some serious issues in regards to both recreational shooters, but more importantly for those who might use the holster under "critical use" conditions. IMO it is a horrible choice for either group of shooters especially when there are so many holsters out there that are much better for comparable pricing. So for myself and what I suggest to others, is that I see no good reasons to chose the Serpa. But that is just my internet blowhards opinion. Sorry but I will leave out the "flaming" part. :D
Littlelebowski
08-28-11, 14:27
That's an amazing timed draw and I don't believe it happened.
I like Serpa's, Ive got two of them, one for an M9 and one for my G21.
Like the pistols themselves, theres ALWAYS gonna be somebody hatin on your choice of gear.
**** em.
I run what I know works, period. MOST people who say they " dont like Serpas"..."theyr unsafe", blah blah...have never even tried one, they are just repeating something else some other jackwad repeated, who in turn got it from yet another assclown.
I dont think is anything in the gunworld that is PERFECT. People blaming the holster for ND's is like blaming crime on guns. Its the MIS-USE of the product causing the problem.
Also, there is a ton of outright LIES about the Serpa...all the way down to "it aint American made". Well, MY two are.
So, those of you wanting the Serpa, buy it, train with it, use it. If it aint your cup of tea fine.
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
So, those of you wanting the Serpa, buy it, train with it, use it. If it aint your cup of tea fine.
And, my last timed draw, from beep to dead center hit at 10 yards..was .62 of a second. So as far as them being "slower to draw" as Ive read...thats BS too.
Now, flame on.
The problem is that if it is indeed not your cup of tea, you're stuck with it for life because you can't sell it (speaking from experience here).
There's something about $50 gone forever that just doesn't feel right. Just sentimental I guess.
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 14:39
Using the CQC and adjusting the screw tension , doesnt that pretty much accomplish what you did with the Serpa?
Yes, unless you already have a serpa.
I never intended this to be a tutorial on how to turn a turd holster into a gem, Just simply how to change the characteristics of said holster to meet my desired needs. Take it or leave it, I don't give a rip.
Mods, shut 'er down please.
-Matt
----------------
Matt, no harm, no foul. For myself, I appreciate that you are attempting to make lemonade out of a lemon. You may indeed be helping out those who own Serpa's so good on you for creating the thread. Also if the thread creates constructive discussion that people can learn good information from, the thread was worth your effort. :)
I'll echo Surf's comments--you have provided good solid information for the user community. Well done!
I agree with the past 2 posts. Before I was shown the error of my ways I had bought several of these POS. I now have a viable option to put them to use. They will just be limited to range use or blue gun duty, but thats better than in a box collecting dust.
BufordTJustice
08-28-11, 19:27
I have seen multiple level III duty serpas have their hoods completely break during routine duty use.
I choose to use a Safariland ALS level III for my G21 w/ TLR1s. I've beat the shiz out of it (gotten dirt PACKED into it on multiple occasions....just rinsed it with a hose, let it dry, and went back on duty). The guys using serpas brag about how fast they are during their draw...but they're stuck using a fragile holster and a shitty light that is half the brightness with a slightly shorter run time. PASS.
I have a few serpas for cold weather use when I carry my g26 and G21 while in plain clothes. Read: LIGHT duty use. I've had no problems with them, but they do not get beat-on like my Safariland. This thread has really opened my eyes to all the other issues that are being experienced...
RagweedZulu
08-28-11, 19:43
I shitcanned the one and only Serpa i owned while at an Advanced Pistol Operator Course. After some shooting from the ground drills, a piece of gravel got into the mechanism, completely F-ing up the entire rig and preventing a draw. Absolutely unacceptable. If this could happen during CCW (with gravel, cloth or even a GD tortilla chip) then I don't have any use for them any longer.
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 19:48
Here we go again.:rolleyes: Someone please close this thread!
Littlelebowski
08-28-11, 20:21
I don't want to see the thread closed before StraightShooter tells us more about this incredible shot of his that beats Todd Jarrett. The best I've gotten on a 3x5 card from real concealment at 25' was 1.3 seconds as witnessed and timed by an active duty Marine officer on this forum.
.62 on a target at 10 yards from a Serpa....sure, if you're point shooting the barn door from the inside.
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 20:45
Dude..
Your opinion/idea/thoughts of what i did/didnt do amount to, oh, exactly SHIT to me.
Just because YOUR skills are...wanting...dont mean mine are.
Go practice and quit crying about it. You make a fool of yourself.
I am not discounting the serpa hate nor claiming it is the best holster ever. But considering there are MILLIONS of them in service around the country, yea, shit is going to happen. Law of averages says some one is going to ND or shoot themselves. I have never accidently put my finger inside the trigger guard or seen anyone do that. My weapon has never been locked inside of it or whatever. I don't care that I can't put my weapon back inside of it backwards.
McDonalds has served Millions food. This does not make it good food or a good choice.
When you create a device that MAKES IT EASIER to have an ND/AD, that means it is at fault.
Learn from people that have seen people shoot themselves, almost shoot themselves and gotten their weapon locked into the holster.
I have not been struck by lightening yet, but I do believe it happens.
It bothers me when I see top level instructors "banning" serpa holsters from their classes. How many soldiers and law enforcement agents don't have a ****ing say in the matter? I'm not saying they wouldn't make an exception, but it seems strange and hypocritical for many of "them" (not calling anyone out) to preach shooting the same weapon as most of their students, and then turn around and "ban" the most common holster in service.
/rant
/flameon
Be an instructor, pay liability insurance and then see if you don't want to limit faulty gear that lends itself to causing a ND/AD.
If I was going to a shooting school taught by someone that is 1.5 million more times more knowledgeable on gear and shooting than I, I would listen to what they had to say (as they just might be giving me some wisdom that will save my life). YMMV.
As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid.
C4
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:03
Dude..
Your opinion/idea/thoughts of what i did/didnt do amount to, oh, exactly SHIT to me.
Just because YOUR skills are...wanting...dont mean mine are.
Go practice and quit crying about it. You make a fool of yourself.
I have seen LL shoot. His skills are far, far, far from wanting.
I have carried one off duty and as my instructor rig since 2004. I have not had one issue. I know 30 or more guys carrying them as well since then and never heard anything negative.
There are many in LE that do not share your same thoughts.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82779&highlight=serpa
C4
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:07
I will tell you where the effort in the Serpa went. It went into marketing.
Marketing made the Serpa and nothing else.
....and yes, I own two. One for a .40 USP compact and another for a Glock 19. And I have extensively used the Glock model until I got smart and listened to LAV, DP, Failure To Stop and others and tried an ALS.
I now own 5 ALS holsters and only wonder why I didn't buy those first. There simply is no comparison. The ALS blows the Serpa away in every regard.
here's your video, but it's Todd Jarrett ( at 1:01) who's happy with .77 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM9HFjN4tWE&feature=related
Most shooters do everything they can to get A zone hits at 7yds in 1 second flat. These are people with A LOT OF TRAINING.
Now, I can hit the side of a house at 10yds in .5. So maybe that is what he was referring to.
C4
You say you're not high speed, but you "beat" Todd Jarrett. That's quite an accomplishment. Don't sell yourself short.
That's right! Pro circuit for SS. :dance3:
C4
Oh- I did the draw in front of several witnesses a few months ago, I guess with some difficulty I could get names and numbers
I think a more appropriate response would be to assemble these people instead of railing against lebowskie's questioning of it. Since you stated you could provide proof you should have expected someone to ask for it.
Understand I'm not claiming you did not do it.
Littlelebowski
08-28-11, 21:13
Dude..
Your opinion/idea/thoughts of what i did/didnt do amount to, oh, exactly SHIT to me.
Just because YOUR skills are...wanting...dont mean mine are.
Go practice and quit crying about it. You make a fool of yourself.
You didn't do it. Not on any target smaller than a torso. Of course, in this day of camera phones, it wouldn't be hard to ante the **** up and show us but you won't. Your integrity is lacking and you will not last here. This is not the place to make outrageous claims like that.
Grant I am not saying that the serpa is even a good holster nor am I even pretending to know more then 1.5 million times less than big time instructors. I agree with everything you are saying, really.
The difference though is that there are about a billion serpa holsters in use right now. Military, law enforcement, federal agencies, cheap civilians, whatever. A lot of guys do not have a say in the matter. The unfortunate truth is I could walk into my commander's officer and tell him "[Insert name here] says the serpa is a piece of shit and here is why, and here is what we should use instead" and after he asks me who the hell [name] is, he's going to tell me that our serpas are fine and we aren't spending money to replace them. That will happen almost everywhere else as well.
So you can stand outside of McDonnald's and tell everyone to never eat there, or you can accept the fact that it's almost impossible to get people to never eat fast food and educate people the best way to do so.
Dude..
Your opinion/idea/thoughts of what i did/didnt do amount to, oh, exactly SHIT to me.
Just because YOUR skills are...wanting...dont mean mine are.
Go practice and quit crying about it. You make a fool of yourself.
Gotta ask a question. Have you ever attended a shooting school? If so, which one(s)?
C4
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 21:18
Dear littlelebowski-:cray::cray::cray:
And Grant, one has to "attend a school" to be a shooter? Grant, I respect your opinions on stuff Ive seen you answer here. I believe you to be one of the very few here "in the know".
So Im not getting into a pissing contest with you, or the crybaby any further about what I did once, under a timer, with witnesses.
I will continue to read your posts, and take advice you offer here seriously, but as to whether you, crybaby, or anyone else here believes or dont believe me, sir, I GIVE A RATS ASS.
Im DONE with the subject, have your fun girls. Oh, somebody give baby boy a hankie. He needs it.
Grant I am not saying that the serpa is even a good holster nor am I even pretending to know more then 1.5 million times less than big time instructors. I agree with everything you are saying, really.
The difference though is that there are about a billion serpa holsters in use right now. Military, law enforcement, federal agencies, cheap civilians, whatever. A lot of guys do not have a say in the matter. The unfortunate truth is I could walk into my commander's officer and tell him "[Insert name here] says the serpa is a piece of shit and here is why, and here is what we should use instead" and after he asks me who the hell [name] is, he's going to tell me that our serpas are fine and we aren't spending money to replace them. That will happen almost everywhere else as well.
So you can stand outside of McDonnald's and tell everyone to never eat there, or you can accept the fact that it's almost impossible to get people to never eat fast food and educate people the best way to do so.
I understand yours and many others issues. When screwed like this, you do the following:
1. Send the LE or .Mil reports of shootings to your supervisors.
2. Ask if you can BUY an alternative to the holster.
3. Make the best of your bad situation and when off duty, use something better and continue to hound supervisors about the issue.
C4
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:21
Gotta ask a question. Have you ever attended a shooting school? If so, which one(s)?
C4
I HAVE!(raises hand)
I went to an obscure place called Moyock, NC to take a class a couple months ago(from some unknown instructor, I think his initials were LAV or something like that) and LL was shooting to my immediate right. I witnessed him positively demolish a 5 inch bullseye on demand repeatedly at multiple ranges.
3. Make the best of your bad situation and when off duty, use something better and continue to hound supervisors about the issue.
C4
Got that part, I'll work on the others.
Dear littlelebowski-:cray::cray::cray:
This is a technical forum full of people that can shoot, kill people for a living and take training seriously. Making claims such as you just did isn't going to fly.
Consider this your formal warning. Act like an adult, back up your claims or log off and find another forum.
Dear littlelebowski-:cray::cray::cray:
And Grant, one has to "attend a school" to be a shooter?
Men struggle with this thing called EGO. Ego tells men that, from BIRTH, they do three things well. These three things are:
1. Drive
2. Shoot
3. Screw
Truth be told, we do not do ANY OF THEM well without a lot of practice and training.
So yes, you need to learn what you do not know. Shooting well is not easy and takes years to come even close to hitting a standard IDPA target in under a second.
Just sayin....
C4
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 21:31
Deleted.
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:40
Dude,
Don't let the door hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'!
Then STAFF...log me off and Ill find another forum that aint full of shit and crybabies like this one is.
And Grant... is 40 ****in years of shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds enough?
Does THAT qualify? Or do I need to go to a ****in "school" and jump around like a ****in monkey?
You people are full of yourselves, and full of shit.
No, not really. I teach a lot shooters that have 50-60yrs of shooting experience (self taught). They suck when compared to a guy with one year of experience who has been to professional shooting schools.
Made some assumptions on your round count assessment. At twenty five cents a round, 200,000 rds would be $50k. So I don't believe you shot that many rounds. I also do not believe you hit anything with your .62 draw.
So I am guessing that the answer to my question if you have EVER had any professional training is a no??
C4
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:42
And Grant... is 40 ****in years of shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds enough?
Repetition in and of itself is of limited and even negative value. Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect.
Annnnnd Scene!
We now return you to the standard that is M4carbine.net
Quiet-Matt
08-28-11, 21:46
I give up?!?:suicide2:
Straight Shooter
08-28-11, 21:46
Ok, fair enough. Keep spreading that GOTTA GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN TO SHOOT BULLSHIT all you want, it dont fly with me.
Did you calculate ammo prices in the 70's & 80's? Same price then as now I guess.
You are WRONG, and it chaps your, and others, asses that you are.
Once again, I give a damn, and am actually glad you dont believe me.
Tickles me shitless. You and crybaby ought to get together over a lite beer and TALK ABOUT ME.
Long Tom Coffin
08-28-11, 21:47
Today's forecast: It's raining bullshit with a 100% chance of a ban hammer.
Have fun complaining on GT and arf.com
Long Tom Coffin
08-28-11, 21:48
Repetition in and of itself is of limited and even negative value. Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect.
score. This belongs in a sig line somewhere.
score. This belongs in a sig line somewhere.
I'm pretty sure it's already in about 10 sig lines on this board.
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:53
You are WRONG, and it chaps your, and others, asses that you are.
Once again, I give a damn, and am actually glad you dont believe me.
Ok, which is it? The first or the second? You realize those are diameterically opposed points.
If we don't believe you, how could it chap our ass?
Let me tell you about the first rule of holes:
"When you find yourself in one, stop digging."
Heavy Metal
08-28-11, 21:55
I'm pretty sure it's already in about 10 sig lines on this board.
You are right.
However, I think the rule of holes quote is available for sigging!:D
score. This belongs in a sig line somewhere.
I think that's my sig line......:thank_you2:
I will say that, as a firearms instructor for over 10 years, I find my self more often than not actually slowing myself down to make sure I keep the fundamentals in check. Personally, I could care less how fast you can shoot or how you shoot the hair off a gnat's ass. If you don't do it using the proper fundamentals, I chalk it up to pure luck. You are only as good as you can shoot consistently.
Back on track to the OPs thread.......
Matt, great job on a quick fix. I know what it's like to take the time to fit and re fit till your eyes cross so I comment you on your persistence.
I was never fond of the Serpa, I have one. It gets little to no use. I was not aware of all of the problems with it but as a light bearing holster lover, it is a non issue with me.
Ok, fair enough. Keep spreading that GOTTA GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN TO SHOOT BULLSHIT all you want, it dont fly with me.
Did you calculate ammo prices in the 70's & 80's? Same price then as now I guess.
You are WRONG, and it chaps your, and others, asses that you are.
Once again, I give a damn, and am actually glad you dont believe me.
Tickles me shitless. You and crybaby ought to get together over a lite beer and TALK ABOUT ME.
I don't know type of ammo you shoot, but using 9mm as the base round, it cost more in the 80's and 90's than it does now. So again, I do not believe you.
For the record, I also do not believe you are the age you say you are. Reason? Grown mean to not act like you do. You sound much more like a 20 something white male that likes ST, TAP OUT and lives in your mom's basement.
As the sayin goes, you can't fix stupid and I should stop trying.
C4
Long Tom Coffin
08-28-11, 22:52
I think that's my sig line......:thank_you2:
I will say that, as a firearms instructor for over 10 years, I find my self more often than not actually slowing myself down to make sure I keep the fundamentals in check. Personally, I could care less how fast you can shoot or how you shoot the hair off a gnat's ass. If you don't do it using the proper fundamentals, I chalk it up to pure luck. You are only as good as you can shoot consistently.
I'm solely practicing on the fundamentals right now, utilizing much of the excellent drill techniques on Todd's blog. I will be the first to admit that I have a hell of a long way to go. I'm not even to the point where purchasing a shot timer would be a worthwhile endeavor yet. Long, long way to go.
Long Tom Coffin
08-28-11, 22:56
You are right.
However, I think the rule of holes quote is available for sigging!:D
Duly stolen.
Closed per the OP's request.
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