View Full Version : A closer look at PSA
I've seen threads here on there on completed 'builds' using PSA uppers and/or lowers with final pictures...but never any detail. I've set out to piece together a SBR using a PSA (FN barreled) upper + PSA lower and will update this thread with pictures and details as they become available. Unfortunately there was a mishap and today I received a 16" carbine gassed upper (instead of the 12"). Oh well, Kyle at PSA is great to work with and the 12" is already en route to me. Yes, I know there is grease everywhere. I'll clean the 12" up nice and pretty when it arrives. Please bear with me on the pictures, the wife's fancy camera is a pain in the ass.
While we wait, here's details on the 16"
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2261.php
4150 barrel
Chrome lined bore
1:7 twist
HPT/MPI
F marked FSB
Taper pins/parkd
M4 Feedramps
5.56 chamber
Arrives with conventional round hand guards, no pics but take my word for it, both have heat shields
What's wrong with this picture
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/IMG_5978.jpg
F marked FSB
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/IMG_5984.jpg
The other side
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/FSB.jpg
View of the chamber, note M4 feedramps are blended nicely into the receiver
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/IMG_5982-1.jpg
View from the bottom, once lower receiver arrives I will get more pictures of fit
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/IMG_5977.jpg
My apologies for not getting the barrel markings on this one. I did not have much time to take pictures before I had to get it boxed back up and taken to UPS. More detail to come once the stripped lower, NFA upper, and components arrive and are pieced together. Thought this would be a good basis of comparison for Palmetto State Armory in general since we get a look at a few of their products instead of just one.
ETA: Both uppers were ordered sans BCG, if anyone has detail pictures of a PSA BCG please post them.
rob s: No hard feelings if you don't take any of the above as gospel truth, but maybe PSA at some point could be added to the chart once you confirm for yourself?
I don't have pics of the complete BCG, but here are some comparing the gas key staking to a BCM BCG. Hope this helps.
BCM on left, PSA on right:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/stan9106/Permanent%20gun%20photos/IMGP1031.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/stan9106/Permanent%20gun%20photos/IMGP1032.jpg
polymorpheous
08-29-11, 16:28
What's up with those gas key fasteners?
I think thats just my poor photography skills. They look fine in person.
Is that the PSA premium BIG?
Hot Holster
08-29-11, 17:39
Sorry for the incomplete pic's for the BCG. This is the f/a premium. I paired it with a 16" LMT upper, and using a PSA lower and PSA LPK that I assembled.
At the range for the first time out, full auto and rapid fire was allowed that day. I did 5-30 round mag dumps slowing only to load another mag. I had three fail to fire rounds, which later I traced back to a 200 round bag of .223's that I bought from a guy in a WalMart parking lot off of Craigslist.
After the mag dumps, I put a 12" target with an 8" self adhesive target target in the center at 50 yrds, and using an Osprey 3-9x42 scope I shot another several mags off a Caldwell Jr. rest, fairly quick but not stopping to get the best possible aim.
I have since put another 500 rounds through the gun and have had no problems. Bottom line is I like the gun and the results.
The gun is at my second residence 1200 miles away or I would get better pic's of the BCG.
Is that the PSA premium BIG?
It's the BCG they ship with the 16" SS middy upper. It has the MP marked bolt, so I assume it is the premium, but I don't know for a fact.
...which later I traced back to a 200 round bag of .223's that I bought from a guy in a WalMart parking lot off of Craigslist.
You are brave
You are brave
Hey give the guy a break....that ammo probably came as part of the deal with that Osprey scope.
What's up with those gas key fasteners?
I think thats just my poor photography skills. They look fine in person.
they definitely look different to me too
Hey give the guy a break....that ammo probably came as part of the deal with that Osprey scope.
:sarcastic: got him. You've got balls man, shooting ammo from a craigslist guy in a Walmart parking lot.
eternal24k
08-30-11, 08:43
thanks for the pics, I am very close to ordering atleast one PSA upper.
What's up with those gas key fasteners?
Ya, they look like they are rounded out (not good).
C4
thanks for the pics, I am very close to ordering atleast one PSA upper.
No problem. Hope to have the 12" in this week and get pics up. Having a few from them to compare to one another I think will shed more light on their quality consistency or inconsistency.
Ya, they look like they are rounded out (not good).
C4
I went with just the stripped upper thinking that was enough uncharted territory. Glad I did.
Fasteners don't look rounded out to me....looks more like two different kinds/types to my eye.
Hot Holster
08-30-11, 10:29
Hey give the guy a break....that ammo probably came as part of the deal with that Osprey scope.
:laugh: That's pretty funny.
But here's the real deal; I don't drink the kool-aid from any manufacturer or advocates from forums, nor am I am fan boy follower. I am an occasional shooter, not going to war anytime soon, and a slim to none chance of shooting at something over 200 yards.
I have been battling cancer for over a year, had surgery, had complications from surgery, unable to work for a period of time because of repetitive treatments and doctors visits, now able to work three days a week, so money is a factor in what I buy.
The Osprey scope fit my price and had the features, albeit few, that I needed for my purpose of aiding my sometimes tired eyes when I shoot.
I'm really sorry that I didn't wait for another year and save up more money to buy the "A or B" rated scope just to have to impress others.
Sorry for your troubles. I doubt many here buy a quality RDS to impress, but rather to be assured of its accurate and consistent function.
Back on track...
lovetashoot
08-30-11, 11:05
I live rather close to the PSA storefront. I went there about three week ago and inquired about the manufacturing of their LPKs. I was told that they make ALL parts in house. When I asked if they wound their own springs I was told..."well no, we don't exactly make the parts here, but they are all made in state." This is the second time I was told that they make all parts for the LPKs in house (I asked the same question to a different employee on a previous visit). Their gear may or may not be top notch. However, their inability to tell me the entire truth on two separate occasions left a bad taste in my mouth. I have and will continue to use them as a source for ammo. But I’ll let others continue the vetting process on their PSA “manufactured” product line.
I live rather close to the PSA storefront. I went there about three week ago and inquired about the manufacturing of their LPKs. I was told that they make ALL parts in house. When I asked if they wound their own springs I was told..."well no, we don't exactly make the parts here, but they are all made in state." This is the second time I was told that they make all parts for the LPKs in house (I asked the same question to a different employee on a previous visit). Their gear may or may not be top notch. However, their inability to tell me the entire truth on two separate occasions left a bad taste in my mouth. I have and will continue to use them as a source for ammo. But I’ll let others continue the vetting process on their PSA “manufactured” product line.
Good info - thanks for the insight. I'll be getting the LPK for this build from Grant so no worries on that front. Still trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the upper receiver is an FN part or comes from somewhere else. It is clearly marked with PSAs logo. But either way, the whole intention of giving this a try was to take advantage of a dirt cheap price for a FN, 4150, 1/7, etc. barrel/upper
So we'll see what gets proven out once the 12" comes in
I live rather close to the PSA storefront. I went there about three week ago and inquired about the manufacturing of their LPKs. I was told that they make ALL parts in house.
Sorry, but this is a flat out lie. Neither Colt or FN make everything in house.
When I asked if they wound their own springs I was told..."well no, we don't exactly make the parts here, but they are all made in state." This is the second time I was told that they make all parts for the LPKs in house (I asked the same question to a different employee on a previous visit). Their gear may or may not be top notch. However, their inability to tell me the entire truth on two separate occasions left a bad taste in my mouth. I have and will continue to use them as a source for ammo. But I’ll let others continue the vetting process on their PSA “manufactured” product line.
Integrity matters. Tell the truth.
C4
Good info - thanks for the insight. I'll be getting the LPK for this build from Grant so no worries on that front. Still trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the upper receiver is an FN part or comes from somewhere else. It is clearly marked with PSAs logo. But either way, the whole intention of giving this a try was to take advantage of a dirt cheap price for a FN, 4150, 1/7, etc. barrel/upper
So we'll see what gets proven out once the 12" comes in
Just as an FYI, GRANT DOES NOT MAKE HIS LPK's IN HOUSE. ;)
C4
Just as an FYI, GRANT DOES NOT MAKE HIS LPK's IN HOUSE. ;)
C4
Sorry to sidetrack, but are LPKs like lowers in the sense that there are only a few manufacturers that make em all? Also, there are rumors that they are all made in China as well....these two rumors seem to run counter to each other....
Sorry to sidetrack, but are LPKs like lowers in the sense that there are only a few manufacturers that make em all? Also, there are rumors that they are all made in China as well....these two rumors seem to run counter to each other....
At one time (many years ago) that was pretty accurate. That is not longer true. There are many companies that make at least 1-5 components in a LPK.
Yes, you can buy LPK made in Asia. We do not.
C4
At one time (many years ago) that was pretty accurate. That is not longer true. There are many companies that make at least 1-5 components in a LPK.
Yes, you can buy LPK made in Asia. We do not.
C4
Thanks, that is what I had thought to be the case.
Underwhere
08-30-11, 14:15
I have personal experience with 2 PSA LPK's and am very happy with them.
They are significantly better quality than DPMS.
I would use them in future builds.
Just as an FYI, GRANT DOES NOT MAKE HIS LPK's IN HOUSE. ;)
C4
Look at all the clarity we're getting from this thread :cool: I'll be sending some orders your way real soon
They are significantly better quality than DPMS.
Well shit I would hope so
Fasteners don't look rounded out to me....looks more like two different kinds/types to my eye.
Exactly, they are two different brands of screws. They are definitely not rounded out. I think the shadows from my poor light make them look like that.
One of the PSA screws have a shallow countersink to deburr the broaching of the internal hex and to make inserting an Allen key easier
@ Lovetashoot:I live rather close to the PSA storefront. I went there about three week ago and inquired about the manufacturing of their LPKs. I was told that they make ALL parts in house.
I think this was CLEARLY a misunderstanding as PSA doesn't manufacture LPK's,barrels,uppers,etc.... They ASSEMBLE the LPK's from sourced parts.
When I asked if they wound their own springs I was told..."well no, we don't exactly make the parts here, but they are all made in state."
They answered your question. Did you see CNC Machines churning out parts? I think it was employees just misspeaking not purposely Lying.
They were told here on this forum that their Hammer Forged Uppers were not from FN and lo and behold they were.Why, because in their description they used some poorly chosen words IMHO. New company learning the ropes. Just my 2cents.
saddlerocker
08-30-11, 21:32
I tried for the life of me to get a good clear picture of my PSA "Premium" BCG, but I clearly cant work my old digital camera.
But the fasteners defiantly arent rounded, and they list Grade 8 Fasteners on their specs.
Staking is great as well.
I think its one of the best deals on a quality BCG, and not because I own one.
But the proof will only come after years of hard use to see if they really stack up.
I have personal experience with 2 PSA LPK's and am very happy with them.
They are significantly better quality than DPMS.
I would use them in future builds.
I am by no means trying to be an ass, but would like some clarity. You stated that 2 PSA LPKs you bought were go to go. Then you stated, that they are significantly better than DPMS.
What are the quality differences in the two?
I just want to know for general knowledge, and so I can tell the difference between crap parts and good parts.
I am also in no way shape or form defending anything made DPMS.
Hi,
My first AR was built with a PSA LPK and a premium PSA BCG using a CMMG stripped lower and BCM upper. While I am not all that experienced with the AR platform, I am picky, and the PSA parts seem to be very good quality and solid. I've got 150 rounds through my rifle so far with zero issues of any kind. They may need more time to prove themselves like others who have already done so, but I haven't regretted purchasing from them so far.
The LPK I received had two selector detents and only one detent for the pins that connect the upper and lower, but I emailed PSA and they mailed me the one that was missing.
Thanks,
Alan
I've built two stripped lowers using PSA LPKs.
The first one I built was a DD LPK. It wasn't even repackaged. My guess is that they ran out of their PSA LPKs and substituted a DD LPK at no extra charge to me.
The second one was a PSA LPK. The only difference I could see was the un-notched hammer.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251091_1970742562692_1666843362_2009559_7088157_n.jpg
I have a PSA premium BCG. At least visually and functionally, it is no different from my DD BCG. And unless they are misrepresenting outright, it meets the same spec as the DD.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263671_1983361478157_1666843362_2024193_3213163_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/269110_1983362398180_1666843362_2024199_7906871_n.jpg
The gas key screws appear to be correct and staked properly. My pics are not the greatest, but I am satisfied with the product.
Thanks guys for the additional details and pictures :big_boss:
Does that notch on the hammer effect the life of the hammer? Is it more prone to breaking or any other failures, by being un-notched?
Does that notch on the hammer effect the life of the hammer? Is it more prone to breaking or any other failures, by being un-notched?
No it does not
Ok so the notch on the hammer makes no difference. You are unsure where the parts come from. But for some reason people can tell a difference in quality between PSA LPK and DPMS LPK. I am missing some thing here?
Once again I am not trying to be a prick, and most certainly not defending DPMS.
I just want to know the difference in order to be more knowledgable in the subject matter.
lovetashoot
08-31-11, 11:23
I think this was CLEARLY a misunderstanding as PSA doesn't manufacture LPK's,barrels,uppers,etc.... They ASSEMBLE the LPK's from sourced parts.
They answered your question. Did you see CNC Machines churning out parts? I think it was employees just misspeaking not purposely Lying.
Two employees have "mispoken" to me twice about the same issue. The first time, I very clearly said "you MAKE all parts here." And he replied AFFIRMATIVE. The second time, as I stated, I was told the SAME thing. I offered them the spring winding machine as bait and this was when the correct story emerged. My intent is not to bash PSA, I have purchased a lower, and a pile of ammo from them and have been happy. However, the guys there need to understand 1) what they actually do with respect to manufacturing/assembling LPK parts and their other wares & 2) how to correctly communicate answers to customers’ questions. Else, I assume you have no idea what you are doing-or-you are deliberately giving me false information.
The notched hammer is the DD one, btw.
The only way to really tell quality on the PSA lowers, imo is to see how they hold up over time. I cannot feel a palpable difference between the PSA and DD LPKs based on trigger pull.
Ok so the notch on the hammer makes no difference. You are unsure where the parts come from. But for some reason people can tell a difference in quality between PSA LPK and DPMS LPK. I am missing some thing here?
Once again I am not trying to be a prick, and most certainly not defending DPMS.
I just want to know the difference in order to be more knowledgable in the subject matter.
I don't see anyone distinguishing the difference in quality between PSA and DPMS LPKs. You CAN however, tell the difference between PSA and DPMS BCGs. For one, the PSA one is assembled correctly. And it uses correct testing on the bolt, including shot-peening, which relieves metal stress, which adds to longevity.
Two employees have "mispoken" to me twice about the same issue. The first time, I very clearly said "you MAKE all parts here." And he replied AFFIRMATIVE. The second time, as I stated, I was told the SAME thing. I offered them the spring winding machine as bait and this was when the correct story emerged. My intent is not to bash PSA, I have purchased a lower, and a pile of ammo from them and have been happy. However, the guys there need to understand 1) what they actually do with respect to manufacturing/assembling LPK parts and their other wares & 2) how to correctly communicate answers to customers’ questions. Else, I assume you have no idea what you are doing-or-you are deliberately giving me false information.
'employees' could be anybody...was this a front desk guy or an armorer? consider the source.
I don't see anyone distinguishing the difference in quality between PSA and DPMS LPKs. You CAN however, tell the difference between PSA and DPMS BCGs. For one, the PSA one is assembled correctly. And it uses correct testing on the bolt, including shot-peening, which relieves metal stress, which adds to longevity.
UNDERWHERE stated a few post back that the PSA LPK was better than the DPMS LPK. If so i just wanted to know how and why? Can you tell a difference in metals used? Or is the forming of parts different? I was just wondering.
I guess a better question would be what make a good LPK good and why. I am not trying to shit on PSA. I have bought several items from them recently. And have no problem with them what so ever. Just wish they would quit having sales and good deals; my wallet can not take much more.
UNDERWHERE stated a few post back that the PSA LPK was better than the DPMS LPK. If so i just wanted to know how and why? Can you tell a difference in metals used? Or is the forming of parts different? I was just wondering.
In many cases yes you can see a difference in the fit and final finish of the parts. Really cheap lower parts look and feel cheap and are often a challenge when it comes to getting them to fit.
In many cases yes you can see a difference in the fit and final finish of the parts. Really cheap lower parts look and feel cheap and are often a challenge when it comes to getting them to fit.
Instead of feeling like metal a cheap one will feel more like plastic. Is that what you mean.
urbanamish
08-31-11, 16:21
I've never tried any of their stuff, but they are having a sale for Labor day, their stripped lowers are $49.95 each. I ordered two, just for giggles.
At that price, I don't expect them to be up to the level that LMT or DD would be, but I just couldn't turn down that price.
I've never tried any of their stuff, but they are having a sale for Labor day, their stripped lowers are $49.95 each. I ordered two, just for giggles.
At that price, I don't expect them to be up to the level that LMT or DD would be, but I just couldn't turn down that price.
As far as the lower, I have been under the impression that it really is not that big of deal who makes it. That is as long as all the holes and places for springs are made to the correct size. I read a post a while ago where some poor bastard got a tax stamp on a DMPS lower and the holes for the takedown pins where the wrong size:suicide:. From What I have read and heard there are only four different company's that make the stripped lowers and other businesses just pay to have their logo put on it.
Please list the 4 companies. Just trying to learn something.
wolf_walker
08-31-11, 17:53
Please list the 4 companies. Just trying to learn something.
Read the stickys at the top of this forum.
This one is relevant.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3074
saddlerocker
08-31-11, 20:15
The lowers are nice, they have a flared magwell and all the holes were gtg.
Their rollmark is nice also imo.
I would never pay over $100 for a lower when I can get these for $80(plus $20 Transfer) when not on sale.
Two employees have "mispoken" to me twice about the same issue. The first time, I very clearly said "you MAKE all parts here." And he replied AFFIRMATIVE. The second time, as I stated, I was told the SAME thing. I offered them the spring winding machine as bait and this was when the correct story emerged. My intent is not to bash PSA, I have purchased a lower, and a pile of ammo from them and have been happy.
However, the guys there need to understand 1) what they actually do with respect to manufacturing/assembling LPK parts and their other wares & 2) how to correctly communicate answers to customers’ questions. Else, I assume you have no idea what you are doing-or-you are deliberately giving me false information.
And I'm inclined to agree with you sir on your 2 points.
yhmspecter
08-31-11, 21:44
I also have a PSA lpk, striped lower, and premium BCG..Its part of a build using BCM, Troy, Battle Comp, and Magpul...They have been fairly good so far (1200 rds)..I have also bought a good amount of ammo from them I think they are on par with most good companys on service, Now the test of time is what will tell us if their parts are as well
Instead of feeling like metal a cheap one will feel more like plastic. Is that what you mean.
Nope.
the first place I look is at engagement surfaces. They should be smooth, square and polished correctly.
And when they are installed in the lower, they should engage correctly, with a predictable disengagement point.
And when you squeeze the trigger, they should be smooth and devoid of unacceptable creep.
It's kind of like twisting heads off a Barbie. Hard to explain, but once you'vee done a few, you know what "right" feels like.
I suppose I could get a hardness gauge and use it on engagement and impact surfaces as well, and then destroy them, and gauge how deep the hardening as well.
Well to hell with it, I just order one of their LPK and a stripped lower guess I figure it out as I go.
Please list the 4 companies. Just trying to learn something.
It appears that I misread or misunderstood what I read on another thread on this website. I just check to get that info and this is what i found.
The MAJORITY Of lowers are made by MSS,CMT,LMT, and LAR. But the word majority would lead you to believe that other new companies or smaller companies are making lowers as well.
If this information is incorrect I am sure someone will advise.
Hot Holster
09-01-11, 07:59
Google "AR lower receiver manufacturers" for more.
intensional
09-01-11, 09:14
It appears that I misread or misunderstood what I read on another thread on this website. I just check to get that info and this is what i found.
The MAJORITY Of lowers are made by MSS,CMT,LMT, and LAR. But the word majority would lead you to believe that other new companies or smaller companies are making lowers as well.
If this information is incorrect I am sure someone will advise.
I haven't looked into who makes what for other manufacturers, but as far as I know, Palmetto State's pictogram lowers are manufactured by Aero Precision.
I just bought 4 SAA stripped lowers as part of a local group buy, and they were manufactured by Aero Precision as well. I'm willing to bet that AP makes lowers for other companies as well, but I don't have any sources for that. As for where the raw forgings come from, I remember reading once upon a time that there were relatively few places that provided those. Beyond that, I can't say.
I just used one of PSA's Lower Parts Kits to finish a rifle, and while I don't have experience with many other manufacturer's kits, I can say that you will not be disappointed. Compared to the DPMS "repair" kit that I had laying around, the finish of the parts is like night and day.
I just bought 4 SAA stripped lowers as part of a local group buy, and they were manufactured by Aero Precision as well.
I've heard of anodizing issues with the ones from SAA, did you see any?
intensional
09-01-11, 11:02
I've heard of anodizing issues with the ones from SAA, did you see any?
No issues with the 4 I bought. I also briefly inspected 3 others that were purchased in the same batch and they looked fine too.
[QUOTE=intensional;1089970]I haven't looked into who makes what for other manufacturers, but as far as I know, Palmetto State's pictogram lowers are manufactured by Aero Precision.
Would the safe fire lowers be made by Aero Precision to? Or are they of unknown origin?
saddlerocker
09-01-11, 11:41
I saw a thread somewhere that showed the pictogram vs safe/fire.
Apparently they used to be different, but since the fathersday sale they appear to be the same.
Ill try to dig it up
intensional
09-01-11, 12:21
I saw a thread somewhere that showed the pictogram vs safe/fire.
Apparently they used to be different, but since the fathersday sale they appear to be the same.
Ill try to dig it up
Last I heard, the safe/fire were assumed to be made by Lauer, but I never saw if that was confirmed or not. And it very well could have changed since then.
justin_247
09-01-11, 12:55
It appears that I misread or misunderstood what I read on another thread on this website. I just check to get that info and this is what i found.
The MAJORITY Of lowers are made by MSS,CMT,LMT, and LAR. But the word majority would lead you to believe that other new companies or smaller companies are making lowers as well.
If this information is incorrect I am sure someone will advise.
I'm sorry, but this is very old information and even then it's not accurate. Back during the ban days, there were maybe a half-dozen manufacturers of lowers.
Nowadays there are a metric ton of companies that manufacture lowers. Just off-hand, I can think of the following:
Colt
FN
DD
LMT
KAC (although I've read these were originally mfd by LMT)
CMT
Aero
LAR
MMS
Seekins
Kaiser
AXTS
High Standard
Sun Devil
Olympic
Superior
I'm sure the list goes on and on...
If I understand correctly, Aero machines lowers for other companies, such as Surplus Ammo & Arms and Palmetto and the raw forgings are made by another company.
The link to the interview Scott Dove, Aero Precision VP
http://misostudios.com/site/?p=12
by the end of the week i will order a psa lower and lpk. $150 for a complete lower is hard to beat
Thanks for that list.
I'm sorry, but this is very old information and even then it's not accurate. Back during the ban days, there were maybe a half-dozen manufacturers of lowers.
Nowadays there are a metric ton of companies that manufacture lowers. Just off-hand, I can think of the following:
Colt
FN
DD
LMT
KAC (although I've read these were originally mfd by LMT)
CMT
Aero
LAR
MMS
Seekins
Kaiser
AXTS
High Standard
Sun Devil
Olympic
Superior
I'm sure the list goes on and on...
zipseattle
09-01-11, 22:44
I have a SAA lower, made by Aero, and a PSA lower, from the Father's day sale, and it is definitely NOT the same as the Aero-made receiver.
The pics on the PSA website show a serial number starting with "AP-----". My PSA lower serial number starts with "LW----".
There are also definite finishing differences:
1) AP lowers have a forge flashing remaining at the rear of the receiver. The "LW" PSA receiver does not.
2) The "LW" receiver has more pronounced beveling of the magwell than the Aero.
3) The Aero receiver is tapped for a 4-40 set screw, to hold the rear takedown pin detent spring in place during assembly. The LW lower is not tapped.
I prefer the LW marked PSA receiver only due to the forge flashing remaining on the Aero lower... just a cosmetic preference.
Both were in spec when I installed the LPK's, and in my noob opinion are gtg.
Conclusion: PSA has had more than one source for lower receivers.
I have a SAA lower, made by Aero, and a PSA lower, from the Father's day sale, and it is definitely NOT the same as the Aero-made receiver.
The pics on the PSA website show a serial number starting with "AP-----". My PSA lower serial number starts with "LW----".
There are also definite finishing differences:
1) AP lowers have a forge flashing remaining at the rear of the receiver. The "LW" PSA receiver does not.
2) The "LW" receiver has more pronounced beveling of the magwell than the Aero.
3) The Aero receiver is tapped for a 4-40 set screw, to hold the rear takedown pin detent spring in place during assembly. The LW lower is not tapped.
I prefer the LW marked PSA receiver only due to the forge flashing remaining on the Aero lower... just a cosmetic preference.
Both were in spec when I installed the LPK's, and in my noob opinion are gtg.
Conclusion: PSA has had more than one source for lower receivers.
PSA sells two lowers, a SAFE/FIRE version and a pictogram version. The picto lowers are manufactured by Aero Precision. Don't know about the S/F ones.
by the end of the week i will order a psa lower and lpk. $150 for a complete lower is hard to beat
Might want to break that down over two orders instead of one.
According to thier site, if you get a receiver and parts at the same time they hit you with an 11% federal excise tax.
Specific words from thier site:
Due to Federal law, if you order an AR15 lower and AR15 parts, we will have to add an additional 11% Federal Excise Tax to the purchase price of the AR15 lower and AR15 parts. This amount will not be reflected in your shopping cart or on your invoice, but will be added when your order is processed.
OK the other (12" upper) is finally here! Will get pics up asap
Might want to break that down over two orders instead of one.
According to thier site, if you get a receiver and parts at the same time they hit you with an 11% federal excise tax.
Specific words from thier site:
Due to Federal law, if you order an AR15 lower and AR15 parts, we will have to add an additional 11% Federal Excise Tax to the purchase price of the AR15 lower and AR15 parts. This amount will not be reflected in your shopping cart or on your invoice, but will be added when your order is processed.
That's the first company I've heard doing that. What's the deal?
That's the first company I've heard doing that. What's the deal?
Rumor has it ATF is starting to crack down on this stuff....at least that's the word on the street.
Two employees have "mispoken" to me twice about the same issue. The first time, I very clearly said "you MAKE all parts here." And he replied AFFIRMATIVE. The second time, as I stated, I was told the SAME thing. I offered them the spring winding machine as bait and this was when the correct story emerged. My intent is not to bash PSA, I have purchased a lower, and a pile of ammo from them and have been happy. However, the guys there need to understand 1) what they actually do with respect to manufacturing/assembling LPK parts and their other wares & 2) how to correctly communicate answers to customers’ questions. Else, I assume you have no idea what you are doing-or-you are deliberately giving me false information.
And I'm inclined to agree with you sir on your 2 points.
'employees' could be anybody...was this a front desk guy or an armorer? consider the source.
As I said before, let's not go burning anyone at the stake til we have something in writing by a spokesperson/professional from PSA. I don't wish to have my thread be a platform for libel based on hearsay. I'll just be posting facts with pictures as illustrations and yall can take away what you want from that.
intensional
09-02-11, 08:51
As I said before, let's not go burning anyone at the stake til we have something in writing by a spokesperson/professional from PSA. I don't wish to have my thread be a platform for libel based on hearsay. I'll just be posting facts with pictures as illustrations and yall can take away what you want from that.
Less typing, more pictures! :p
Less typing, more pictures! :p
No doubt Munch, what.....are you makin a movie?
Don't leave us hangin......:sarcastic:
Might want to break that down over two orders instead of one.
According to thier site, if you get a receiver and parts at the same time they hit you with an 11% federal excise tax.
Specific words from thier site:
Due to Federal law, if you order an AR15 lower and AR15 parts, we will have to add an additional 11% Federal Excise Tax to the purchase price of the AR15 lower and AR15 parts. This amount will not be reflected in your shopping cart or on your invoice, but will be added when your order is processed.
This is an incorrect understanding of the law ASSUMING that they person did not buy EVERYTHING needed to complete a rifle.
So if you buy a lower, LPK and a barrel, no 11% needs to be collected.
C4
Rumor has it ATF is starting to crack down on this stuff....at least that's the word on the street.
Every company can make 50 weapons a year (believe the number is still 50) without collecting FET.
So they would first need to hit that number before every being concerned about collecting FET on a bunch of parts that someone bought.
Oh and it isn't the ATF that is interested in this type of stuff, it is the Treasury Dept as they are the ones that collect the 11%. ;)
C4
Less typing, more pictures! :p
No doubt Munch, what.....are you makin a movie?
Don't leave us hangin......:sarcastic:
:lol: picked it up at the hub just have to get back and get some pics. Due to UPS vomiting on itself a few times this week I just told them to stop the madness and I'd go get it from them. So pics are a comin.
looks like a BASH thread churning along.. IMHO.. :suicide2:
started out good and turned into.. they don't mfg there parts.. but sub-contract.. just like BCM and all the others.. FWIW
who cares.. if you want it.. you will buy it..
I wanted a PSA 16" HF CL Upper and thats what I got for $499 with Premium BCG.. no issues with over 1000 rounds in like 9 hours or so....
http://executiveprotectionservice.us/forums/556/FDEDesk.jpg
I bought the $49 lower with Picto.. and will be buying either a PSA 20" upper or PSA 16" Middy.. or 16" Middy from BCM for this lower..
I will be getting the $79 PSA LPK with MIAD and $80 MOE PSA Stock Kit..
I'm not picky... I liking/leaning toward the BCM markings on the Upper though.. ;)
Anyway..
looks like a BASH thread churning along.. IMHO.. :suicide2:
started out good and turned into.. they don't mfg there parts.. but sub-contract.. just like BCM and all the others.. FWIW
who cares.. if you want it.. you will buy it..
I wanted a PSA 16" HF CL Upper and thats what I got for $499 with Premium BCG.. no issues with over 1000 rounds in like 9 hours or so....
I bought the $49 lower with Picto.. and will be buying either a PSA 20" upper or PSA 16" Middy.. or 16" Middy from BCM for this lower..
I will be getting the $79 PSA LPK with MIAD and $80 MOE PSA Stock Kit..
I'm not picky... I liking/leaning toward the BCM markings on the Upper though.. ;)
Anyway..
Not sure who is bashing anything. Just telling the truth. Don't confuse the two.
Correct in that many to all companies do not make everything in house. They also do not tell people that they do. That is the difference. ;)
C4
PSA sells two lowers, a SAFE/FIRE version and a pictogram version. The picto lowers are manufactured by Aero Precision. Don't know about the S/F ones.
I also bought two PSA lowers on the Fathers Day sale, both with the pictograms. Like zipseattle, mine had serials starting with LW---, not AP---.
Not sure who is bashing anything. Just telling the truth. Don't confuse the two.
Correct in that many to all companies do not make everything in house. They also do not tell people that they do. That is the difference. ;)
C4
You are correct but, no one should ever take a comment from a "front counter" employee as a companies formal statement. That's just not fair.
That would be like the gun counter guy at my local Cabelas giving me "technical" information on a given firearm and coming here and saying "but the Cabelas guy said...."
They also do not tell people that they do. That is the difference. ;)
C4
I never believe anyone selling anyway... ;)
Ok here she sits shotgun. Like I said I just picked it up so I'll get better pics when I get home.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/61f6d022.jpg
Hard to see, but FN marked
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/8f67ffb0.jpg
Upper forging from Anchor Harvey...I believe they supplied FN
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/34b60b8c.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/1bda4540.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/56381a34.jpg
intensional
09-02-11, 11:45
Looks nice. Thanks for the pictures.
You are correct but, no one should ever take a comment from a "front counter" employee as a companies formal statement. That's just not fair.
That would be like the gun counter guy at my local Cabelas giving me "technical" information on a given firearm and coming here and saying "but the Cabelas guy said...."
Even though I could care less as I'm not getting my LPK from them, I agree. I'm fine with holding a manufacturer/distributor responsible, as long as we're referencing a reliable source.
lemejustellya:
My son's buddy just picked up a PSA complete lower - stock - nutnfancy (sorry). I fully expected it to have a gritty trigger.
MAN. Was I wrong. The trigger breaks clean ALL THE TIME, and has a nice small amount of take up - and always consistent. It is a SWEET trigger. No mods needed - superb OOTB.
The rear pin is so tight on the SW upper that is needs a punch, but he'll work through it - some guys LIKE tight. That it is.
I was really impressed by the trigger. But... I doubt they are all like that. Finish and mag well are good.
I never believe anyone selling anyway... ;)
That is your issue. There are MANY dealers and manufacturers that you can believe what they tell you. BCM would be one of those.
C4
You are correct but, no one should ever take a comment from a "front counter" employee as a companies formal statement. That's just not fair.
Where do you think the "counter" employees get it???? Off the errornet? Or from their supervisor?
C4
That is your issue. There are MANY dealers and manufacturers that you can believe what they tell you. BCM would be one of those.
C4
So your a BCM fan.. is what your saying.. and a dealer.. commenting on another dealer for the WIN.. :blink:
I like PSA (I have one.. I have a DPMS also..) and my next upper will more than likely be a BCM..
but for you to continue to chime-in on this he said/she said or its on there NET pages is silly dude.. not a good look.. :secret:
I thought the thread was for QUALITY, a Review(s) by actually users/buyers, and Customer Service.. not verbatim god-speak of what the company may/may not have on the NET or there SALES rep may have said in a call error-nessly..
So your a BCM fan.. is what your saying.. and a dealer.. commenting on another dealer for the WIN.. :blink:
I am a BCM fan. The owner is one of the most honest and knowledgeable people in the firearms industry. He and his company set the standard for all others to be judged.
If you look through this thread, I never said to buy this or that or even commented on the PSA's quality (or lack there of).
but for you to continue to chime-in on this he said/she said or its on there NET pages is silly dude.. not a good look.
Again, re-read what I have written. Nothing out of line, just stating facts.
I thought the thread was for QUALITY, a Review(s) by actually users/buyers, and Customer Service.. not verbatim god-speak of what the company may/may not have on the NET or there SALES rep may have said in a call error-nessly..
I did not start any discussions about PSA about them stating that they make their LPK in house. I simply responded to what someone else posted. They (the poster) thought it was wrong that they would say that. I agreed with their comment.
C4
This thread clearly is going to spontaneously combust. I'll throw up better pics this evening then request it to be closed. If anyone has anything constructive to add, whether it be pictures or personal experience...not he said, she said, then please add it now.
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