newbie question

[truckie453]

Hey all,

this may be a stupid question, but here goes.

I have a carbine lower and a rifle length lower, each lower has the correct buffer, tube and spring. If I wanted to run the rifle upper on the carbine lower or vice versa, would each buffer/spring stay with their respective lower? basically what I am asking is "does the buffer and spring depend on the tube or the upper that it is running...?"

thanks for entertaining the newbie.

truckie453

[Thursday]

To my knowledge; which is very little, the buffer/spring should be paired with the upper(gas system.) Maybe someone else can chime in and tell you exactly the answer you're looking for. Unless you are saying you have a rifle length tube and a carbine length tube.

[jet80tv]

Is this deja vu? The length of your gas system on the upper is going to determine the buffer/spring set-up on the lower i.e. carbine length buffer and spring would not be ideal for an 11" gas port(rifle length) and vise versa. The difference between rifle and carbine/midlength buffers and springs is length and weight and it's that way for a reason.

[truckie453]

sorry if this has been covered before... I just want to make sure I am understanding you. If I were to swap my rifle upper to my carbine lower I would swap my buffer and spring because the weight of the buffer and spring is associated with the length of the gas system. Is that right?

thanks and sorry for the redundancy of the question.


Is this deja vu? The length of your gas system on the upper is going to determine the buffer/spring set-up on the lower i.e. carbine length buffer and spring would not be ideal for an 11" gas port(rifle length) and vise versa. The difference between rifle and carbine/midlength buffers and springs is length and weight and it's that way for a reason.

[lowdowndad]

If I'm not mistaken, the buffers should stay with their respective lowers ie. rifle buffer w/ rifle lower, carb. buffer w/ carb. lower.
The longer rifle buffer needs to stay in the longer rifle buffer tube. Vice-versa for the carbine buffer and tube.
Buffer length has nothing to do with gas system length.
Some of the more experienced members can confirm this I'm sure.
Hope this helps.
lowdowndad

[ac130usnsr]

sorry if this has been covered before... I just want to make sure I am understanding you. If I were to swap my rifle upper to my carbine lower I would swap my buffer and spring because the weight of the buffer and spring is associated with the length of the gas system. Is that right?

thanks and sorry for the redundancy of the question.

DO NOT put your rifle buffer and spring in your carbine lower. It will cause damage if you fire that combination.

You will be absolutely fine using your rifle upper on a carbine lower with the carbine buffer. It should shoot smooth with less perceived recoil than the carbine upper on the carbine lower.

Heavier buffers and stronger springs are for shorter length gas systems, to handle the higher pressures from the gas tube due to the shorter gas system.

[truckie453]

Thank you both the the warning... I will not swap my buffers/springs.

Thanks to all for the education.


DO NOT put your rifle buffer and spring in your carbine lower. It will cause damage if you fire that combination.

You will be absolutely fine using your rifle upper on a carbine lower with the carbine buffer. It should shoot smooth with less perceived recoil than the carbine upper on the carbine lower.

Heavier buffers and stronger springs are for shorter length gas systems, to handle the higher pressures from the gas tube due to the shorter gas system.


If I'm not mistaken, the buffers should stay with their respective lowers ie. rifle buffer w/ rifle lower, carb. buffer w/ carb. lower.
The longer rifle buffer needs to stay in the longer rifle buffer tube. Vice-versa for the carbine buffer and tube.
Buffer length has nothing to do with gas system length.
Some of the more experienced members can confirm this I'm sure.
Hope this helps.
lowdowndad

[MistWolf]

I am using a 20" rifle upper on a lower with a carbine receiver extension. It works fine

[truckie453]

Glad I'm not the only one, Thank you.


I am using a 20" rifle upper on a lower with a carbine receiver extension. It works fine

[jet80tv]

Yes to rifle upper on carbine lower but no rifle buffer or spring in carbine extension

[Failure2Stop]

Putting a carbine buffer and spring into an A2 stock will result in damage to the weapon, and putting a rifle buffer and spring into a carbine receiver extansion will not permit function of the weapon.

[handlebar1980]

Glad I'm not the only one, Thank you.

me to me to

[Makarov]

Putting a carbine buffer and spring into an A2 stock will result in damage to the weapon

Could you please elaborate a bit?
I just came home from a buddy who's bought a "custom built" AR for a company(here in Norway). It's a 16" Wilson barrel with carbine gas system, unknown manufacture upper and a DD BCG. The lower is a DPMS(due to some unfortunate rules here in Norway we can only own DPMS, Bushmaster, old Colts or Stag Arms lowers...) with a DD LPK and a ACE stock. When I was telling him about how to oil up the gun I found a carbine buffer(and a flat coiled spring that I believe to be a Tubbs). I've never ever heard of anyone doing that before, so I decided to search here on M4C when I came home, and found this thread.

To add to the story - When the gun first arrived in july I found that they've used a rifle barrel extension in a upper with M4 cuts.... Called them and said that that was not acceptable. The shop manager told me to send back the upper, and that they would fix it(unfortunately I did so without checking over the lower properly)
It took them almost 3 weeks to fix that cause the smith was on vacation, and when I talked to him he said that it really wasn't a problem, but since we complained he would fix in anyways. Since they didn't have any other uppers he had to cut new feedramps in the extension.

Well, it came back yesterday, and I finally check out the gun properly and oiled it up today. That's when I found the funky buffer configuration, and, to add insult to injury; While inspecting the lower properly I also found that I could switch on the safety when the hammer wasn't cocked... Now this is probably just a adjustment issue with the trigger(a Jard), but it really pissed me off.

We were going to go shoot the rifle later this week, but now I don't think that's possible...


Since it was I who suggested that my friend should buy from that company, (cause I've had a few conversations with them and they've sounded like they had the right attitude and thoughts on AR's), I really feel that this is on me. :(



Enough of my Livejournal blogging, I think I'll go cut myself a little while I wait for Failure's answer.

[Failure2Stop]

Could you please elaborate a bit?
I just came home from a buddy who's bought a "custom built" AR for a company(here in Norway). It's a 16" Wilson barrel with carbine gas system, unknown manufacture upper and a DD BCG. The lower is a DPMS(due to some unfortunate rules here in Norway we can only own DPMS, Bushmaster, old Colts or Stag Arms lowers...) with a DD LPK and a ACE stock.

Should be fine with an ACE stock, as I believe (I don't own any) that they are manufactured to work with a carbine buffer and spring. I know that they make a few different lengths, so I would check around and see what buffers and springs ACE says should be in whatever stock he has.

The problem with sticking a carbine buffer and spring into an A2 stock is that the A2 tube is longer than a carbine receiver extension, and the lack of OAL of the carbine buffer in comparison to the rifle buffer will result in the gas key striking the top of the receiver extension and the lower receiver, causing damage.

[Iraqgunz]

Maybe I need to work in Norway when I go on R/R?

[darr3239]

R&R should never be associated with work!

[Makarov]

Should be fine with an ACE stock, as I believe (I don't own any) that they are manufactured to work with a carbine buffer and spring. I know that they make a few different lengths, so I would check around and see what buffers and springs ACE says should be in whatever stock he has.
Hmmm, I when I wrote this I was pretty sure that it was the version that uses the existing A2 tube(the ARFX (http://riflestocks.com/store/product93.html)), but now I'm not sure anymore... I don't own any of my own, and all I've seen are the ARFX version. Must check more.


The problem with sticking a carbine buffer and spring into an A2 stock is that the A2 tube is longer than a carbine receiver extension, and the lack of OAL of the carbine buffer in comparison to the rifle buffer will result in the gas key striking the top of the receiver extension and the lower receiver, causing damage.
So if it's the ARFX version it'll be a problem with the buffer, and I'll have to call the shop again...


Maybe I need to work in Norway when I go on R/R?
We'll there wouldn't be much work, cause there aren't that many rifles needed building, as we're a small country.

[elia.jon1]

To a degree you can adjust your buffer system but your limited on what sort of stock setup you have. Use rifle buffers in rifle stocks. Use carbine buffers in carbine stocks. Its just about that simple