Looking for a place to teach a woman how to shoot

[Joseywales]

Background:

My girlfriend learned how to shoot guns years ago and has killed a deer once. However, her idiot brothers also gave her a shotgun, didn't tell her how to shoot it, and laughed when she fell on her ass. Therefore, she now has a big fear of guns and is NOT keen on using one for self defense. She is also an Opera watcher, so naturally, she falls more into the sheeple category. She is not very keep on carrying pepper spray and a stun gun, but has agreed to learn how to use a stun gun, learn the laws, and keep it in her house. She is becoming partial to the OC spray idea.

Problem:

She is very naive and does not appreciate how dangerous the world can be.

Looking for a solution:

I am looking for a place for her to get some training on how to use guns, why we need to know how to use guns, and some basic safety skills on avoiding danger.

I would like the training to be conducted by a woman. It is my observation that women relate best to another woman whey they are getting training about something that they are uncomfortable with. I also would like it to be someone who is getting PAID to teach and DEPENDS on their ability to teach to support their livelihood. The idiot savant weekend warrior know-it-all "expert" just will not do. I want her to walk away from the training feeling that it changed her way of thinking for the better and not have any association to self defense as a negative experience.

I am thinking that Thunder Ranch or Valhalla would be a good choice, but costly and far away. I hear that TDI is coming to Columbus, OH. Maybe that will be our only opportunity for her within the next two years.

Anyone know of a place that teaches many women who would recommend going back for more?

[Abraxas]

According to your profile you are in Illinois and while the name currently escapes me there is a decent school in that state somewhere around Springfield. I know a few people that have attended and they are very competent and spoke highly of it. In your post Valhalla was too far so I don't know your distance limitation, but there is a good small school in southern MO run by a retired deputy sheriff called APT. I have taken a class or two there that were very good and he does have a female instructor. Hope this helps

[FJB]

I highly recommend one of John and Vicki Farnam's Basic/Intermediate Handgun classes or one of Vicki's women only classes. The travel around the country and you might want to consider hosting them. Vicki does an outstanding job of instructing new female shooters, as well as teaching male instructors how to better communicate with female students. Recommend you contact them for a more complete schedule.

http://www.defense-training.com/sched/schedform.html

18 Sept 07

Thinking wrongly:

Late last week, Vicki and Diane Nichol presented their famous "Teaching
Women to Shoot" Class to several police departments in GA. As always, the most politically incorrect of all questions was asked by several female instructors:

They indicated that a number of female patrol officers, who chronically
perform poorly on the range, don't interact profitably with female instructors.
Sometimes, there is a racial component. "They refuse to listen. How do we
communicated effectively with them?" Was the question.

We explain this in many different ways. This is the latest iteration:

Sub-standard results are a result of the student acting poorly, and acting
poorly is a direct result of flawed thinking. So long as students thinks
wrongly, nothing will improve, and little we instructors do or say will be
helpful.

We instructors present students with the best information we have,
information that has been learned and refined, at great price, over many decades, indeed many centuries. There are any number of ways of using weapons. Most produce poor results, but a select few produce good results. Naturally, those are what we teach. While we have not yet reached perfection, and probably never will, we are persuaded that what we are teaching represents the State of the Art.

However, some students come to us, not to learn, but to convince us (but mostly themselves) that their way is best. They refuse to repent nor even listen, but instead stubbornly do everything their way, and, as a result, consistently perform poorly. When we point out to them that their
repeated poor performance is prima-facie evidence that their way is inferior and that they need to abandon it, they become defensive, change the subject, and start accusing us personally of harassment and all manner of other misdeeds. In addition, they will predictably blame the gun, the target, the holster, the ammunition, the range, the weather, the department, their parents, their religion, ... ad nauseam.

As with all unrepentant sinners, the first thing they need is the last thing
they want! Outwardly, they claim to want to improve, but the only thing
they really want is coddlers and enables, just as they've had at their disposal
their entire lives (until now). They are comfortably being known as losers,
because there is no pressure to meliorate. For their sake and ours, we can't
accede to this self-destructive pattern of thinking. We have to continue to
hold a mirror to their faces and compel them to gradually abandon their
fantasy world, as comfortable as it is, and confront the stark reality that is
the stock-and-trade of all Operators. Only then will they forsake their vanity
and narcissistic arrogance and begin to believe their beliefs. And, when
they believe their beliefs, they will start doubting their doubts. Put another
way, they will start thinking rightly. As it is, they doubt their beliefs
and believe their doubts, and that is why they fail!

It is a tenant of Western Civilization that elitism applies only to ideas.

Egalitarianism applies only to individuals. We are a society of Free Men,
created equal. We have no kingly line nor elite group that has the privilege
of lording it over the rest of us. As Free Men, we come together to discuss
ideas, and no voice has more or less authority than any other.

Some ideas are true and right, and others are false and evil. Not all
ideas, not all information, is of equal value. But, as our Civilization declines,
we find ourselves wallowing in Eastern Mysticism, the kind of wrong thinking
that our marvelous ancestors bravely rejected at Thermopylae. An example is
the patently false notion that we can alter reality by "believing." Under
this fallacy, there is no truth nor lies, no good nor evil, just "what I feel
right now." Call it "New-Age," "Spiritualism," or whatever, it is all the
same hackneyed wish-wash our righteous forefathers threw out so long ago.
Deliver us from this sewage, almighty God!

This is what wrong-thinking students will try to convince us of on the
range. "Results don't matter. The only important thing is what I
feel." Difficult as it is, they must be guided to confront the fact that, not only are they losers, but that they have never been anything but losers, and, if they're not careful, losers/slaves are all they're ever going to be!

At Thermopylae, when he confronted King Leonidas of Sparta, Xerxes of Persia
said, "You cannot possibly think your three hundred can stop my vast forces.
Your position is untenable. Victory is impossible." Leonidas replied, "
Until now, oh great King, you have fought only slaves and conscripts.
Today, you fight Free Men, and, in our vocabulary, you will find the word,
'impossible,' conspicuously absent!"

This is the crux of what Western Civilization have given to human history,
and, in the continuing (and currently losing) war for its preservation, the
gun range, in so many ways, is the Forward Edge of the Battle Area!

/John

[Blake]

I see that you are from Illinois. I know of a place that is in Southwest Missouri. Excellent training. They have an all womens class a handful of times per year. It may be worth checking out. You can call them or contact them on the web.

aptacademy.com

[Rob Pincus]

Josey,

Thanks for considering Valhalla... I taught a course just south of Chicago in June and will likely be going back there in 2008... keep an eye on the training calendar at the VTC site...

As for the specifics of teaching a woman... because of Valhalla's relationship with a high-end resort, we get a lot of beginner shooters during certain times of the year and do a lot of corporate team building (in fact, we were named Colorado's Top Team Building Facility in 2007).. the same guys that teach the high end courses teach the novices. We are pretty good at handling the nuances of fitting the course to the students.

-RJP

[rhino]

I highly recommend one of John and Vicki Farnam's Basic/Intermediate Handgun classes or one of Vicki's women only classes. The travel around the country and you might want to consider hosting them. Vicki does an outstanding job of instructing new female shooters, as well as teaching male instructors how to better communicate with female students. Recommend you contact them for a more complete schedule.

http://www.defense-training.com/sched/schedform.html





I second this recommendation. They're a first rate operation for anyone, but they're probably better for novice female shooters than most other schools.

[Sidewinder6]

Here is another recommendation:

http://www.guntactics.com/Handgun.htm

Randy is one of the absolute best.

[Gunfighter13]

She is becoming partial to the OC spray idea.
Not a good idea, OC while effective when used in Law Enforcement under the correct conditions, can be disaster for an un-trained user. OC is only mildly effective on alcohol and drug intoxicated persons. Mental health suspects also are only mildly affected when sprayed with OC. OC may be better than nothing but it does not disable people like everyone thinks.


I am looking for a place for her to get some training on how to use guns, why we need to know how to use guns, and some basic safety skills on avoiding danger. I would like the training to be conducted by a woman. It is my observation that women relate best to another woman whey they are getting training about something that they are uncomfortable with.

Have you thought about one of the NRA courses? They have female only classes that are taught by other females. Cost for one of the classes is low and there should be one available in your area.

[HolyRoller]

Too true, Gunfighter13. OC is a very useful tool but far from infallible. I haven't had the occasion to squirt anybody yet, but I've sure gotten a dose in training. You soon learn that even though your face is on fire, you can still drive on with one hand holding your sidearm and the other hand holding your eye open.

The rule is supposed to be never carry less-lethal devices without a deadly force device also available, and I try to follow this as much as possible. If I ever get caught with only OC and no gun off-duty, I'd count on OC maybe giving me a few seconds free to either fight unarmed, or run away at high speed--not a good range of choices.