View Full Version : DOJ "Advises" Gibson Guitar to Export Labor to Madagascar
DOJ Advises Gibson Guitar to Export Labor to Madagascar- in the same way the mob would advise you to do something for your own health. Tell me this isn't starting already.....
Link:
http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2011/08/31/doj-advises-gibson-guitar-to-export-labor/
I'm sure there's more out there but this is the one I just happened to come across.
Belmont31R
09-01-11, 11:22
One of their competitors is a big democrat donor and used the same wood in their guitars.
The whole Gibson wood debacle is a travesty of justice from beginning to end. If I were king for a day everyone involved, from top to bottom, would be fired.
One of their competitors is a big democrat donor and used the same wood in their guitars.
Yes, Martin
And at a time when Americans are having a hard time finding a job.
Littlelebowski
09-01-11, 18:01
Factory was stormed by JBTs in full kit with rifles. You know how dangerous those wood importers are.
William B.
09-01-11, 18:02
Would you guys relax? This is obviously for our own good :rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
09-01-11, 18:04
I'll bet there are bunch of fresh new libertarians at that company now.
William B.
09-01-11, 18:09
I hope so. They don't seem like they're going to take this lying down. The CEO had some pretty strong words the other day.
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/ceo-outrage-0826-2011/
This is what tyranny looks like
The_War_Wagon
09-01-11, 19:30
Der Kommissar sending work home... to Africa. :mad:
ForTehNguyen
09-01-11, 20:36
Peter Schiff interviewing the CEO of Gibson Guitars about this raid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8VIFT3xW5E&feature=feedu
Littlelebowski
09-01-11, 20:47
They are forcing Atlas to shrug.
ForTehNguyen
09-02-11, 08:30
Gibson Guitar CEO Says Feds Told Him Problems Would ‘Go Away’ if Labor Outsourced to Madagascar
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/update-gibson-guitar-ceo-says-feds-told-him-to-outsource-labor-to-madagascar/
This is what tyranny looks like
Absolutely. But I have to ask, why Madagascar?
Absolutely. But I have to ask, why Madagascar?
Perhaps because Fearless Leader is trying to keep his promise about creating jobs. He never said he'd create them here in the US...
Baffles the mind until you look at his track record. This is, after all, the Administration that gave "Fast and Furious" the green light...
H
This starts to make me wonder- how many companies of all the ones that outsourced have actually been forced out?
This starts to make me wonder- how many companies of all the ones that outsourced have actually been forced out?
Many have by heavy handed laws, rules and regulations in effect driving them out of the country so that they can manufacture their goods in other places with less restrictive "green" laws.
jklaughrey
09-02-11, 15:25
This "green"bullshit just gives me more excuse to not feel guilty about stringing up hippies, granola's, and earthfirsters by their nappy assed dreads.
ForTehNguyen
09-02-11, 19:11
i dont think this was about being green. I heard Gibson was using wood from India due to acoustic properties of that wood instead of the local Oregon wood. Local unions apparently didnt like that and sicked their federal dogs on Gibson. Then the Feds claim they were enforcing Indian law. WTF do we care what Indian laws are.
i dont think this was about being green. I heard Gibson was using wood from India due to acoustic properties of that wood instead of the local Oregon wood. Local unions apparently didnt like that and sicked their federal dogs on Gibson. Then the Feds claim they were enforcing Indian law. WTF do we care what Indian laws are.
There's actually a Federal law, the Lacey Act of 1900, that prohibits importing various items from other countries in violation of those countries' export laws. It was passed to stop illegal imports of bird feathers or something. Round about 2008 it was expanded to include plant products.
What's getting Gibson in trouble is that both India and Madagascar have protectionist laws that prohibit exporting raw wood. The wood must be 'finished' or 'worked' in the native country before it can be legally exported. From what I've read, it looks like Gibson thought they were in the clear since the wood was in a semi-finished state, i.e. cut up in the proper length for the work they needed rather than in raw bulk format. It may also be that they got taken by some corrupt/shady exporters.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903895904576542942027859286.html
The crux of the matter is that they apparently imported insufficiently-finished wood. Thus, if they'd let Indians or Madagascarans do the work, they'd have been in the clear, hence the DOJ's comments.
Factory was stormed by JBTs in full kit with rifles. You know how dangerous those wood importers are.
Along with people who are selling organic food and milk. God knows you need guns drawn and SWAT teams for hippies selling unpasteurized milk. http://rt.com/usa/news/food-agents-year-milk/
Bear in mind no US laws were broken and the Feds are claiming Gibson broke a law that is on the books in India. To the best of my knowledge India has not complained about Gibson or asked for the aid of the US government in enforcing its laws against Gibson. Instead, the feds have taken it upon themselves to both interpret and to enforce on US citizens the laws of India. The feds claim that Gibson's use of wood from India in its guitars is illegal, because the wood was not finished by Indian workers.
What's getting Gibson in trouble is that both India and Madagascar have protectionist laws that prohibit exporting raw wood. The wood must be 'finished' or 'worked' in the native country before it can be legally exported. From what I've read, it looks like Gibson thought they were in the clear since the wood was in a semi-finished state, i.e. cut up in the proper length for the work they needed rather than in raw bulk format. It may also be that they got taken by some corrupt/shady exporters.
The crux of the matter is that they apparently imported insufficiently-finished wood. Thus, if they'd let Indians or Madagascarans do the work, they'd have been in the clear, hence the DOJ's comments.
This isn't directed at you... But who gives a flying **** what India and Madagascar's laws are pertaining to "finished wood" on American soil! They can go **** themselves, 3rd world backassward ****s!
...who gives a flying **** what India and Madagascar's laws are pertaining to "finished wood" on American soil! They can go **** themselves, 3rd world backassward ****s!
This.
Kind of like how some Congresswoman is declaring that making it illegal to use Sharia Law in US courts is racist and unconstitutional.
H
GermanSynergy
09-03-11, 13:32
The feds claim that Gibson's use of wood from India in its guitars is illegal, because the wood was not finished by Indian workers.
Could they simply hire a guy with the last name of Patel to do it?
Could they simply hire a guy with the last name of Patel to do it?
He's busy taking customer complaints at Citibank. :D
He's busy taking customer complaints at Citibank. :D
I would have said Wells Fargo, but Citibank works too...
H
What's getting Gibson in trouble is nothing of any real importance to anyone in this country and a blatant example of both needless and alarming government over-reaction.
Needed a little editing. Sounds like a citation would have sufficed just fine.
Thomas M-4
09-03-11, 19:08
From what I have read it just states that the wood as have some work done to it before it is eligible to be exported. If they have a document from the India Government saying its OK. That should be the end of it.
Looks like a total **** job.
Absolutely. But I have to ask, why Madagascar?
I believe that Madagascar is somewhere in their supply chain, for either supply of wood, or where some distributor is located.
The legalities being cited by the Feds involve a 100 or so year old international law that covers exotic woods, etc. And yes, you would think that if the country of origin signed off on the shipments, then that should be it. Unless of course the people receiving those products in the US are either non-union shops or contribute to conservative causes.
montanadave
09-04-11, 08:39
Apparently the feds weren't interested enough in this whole kerfuffle to buy a plane ticket:
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_e618168c-d5a6-11e0-bc6a-001cc4c03286.html
theblackknight
09-04-11, 11:22
Why is it everyday, there is a piece of news that makes me want to commit terrorism?
Moose-Knuckle
09-05-11, 04:08
WTF over?!?!?
If anyone still has their head up their ass in regards to what is going down in this nation then it's too late for them.
We have fully unsecured borders, known Islamic terrorists training camps in CONUS, and all the .gov can do is violate law abiding citizens 4th Amendment rights at the airport and raid domestic manufactures for wood?
The framers of the Constitution are weeping. . .
How about fining little girls $500 for trying to help a woodpecker? http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/161065/158/Woodpecker-Saving-Daughter-Costs-Mom-500
Along with the dozen or so kids who've had lemonade stands closed down and fines as well. Government thugs...
Belmont31R
09-06-11, 17:15
Well part of the plan is for mass loss of confidence in government. They do so many chickenshit things no one person can keep track of them but effect enough people when they do even more harmful shit people are so accustomed to stupid gov very few people actually try and do anything about it.
Just like the EPA apparently declaring hay a pollutant, and that it has to be stored a certain way.
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-news/R-CALF-says-EPA-declares-hay-a-pollutant-128915148.html
And declaring farm dust a pollutant.
http://www.khastv.com/news/local/Senators-fight-against-potential-EPA-dust-regulation-99810479.html
Selling raw produce is a crime.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/04/the-rawesome-raid-and-raw-milk-controversy/
But its all good because now farmers need more debt and loans to operate...which means the government has collateral over our source of food...Part of the Rural Initiative is increasing Federal loans to farmers.
Its amazing we are over 14 trillion in debt, have tens of millions of illegal aliens in this country, 3 wars, the economy is shit and they still have the time to worry about what type of wood is in a guitar because Habib in some 3rd world shit hole didnt get to shape it enough. Who gives a ****? This government is attacking business and peoples means to produce and put food on the table.
Just wait until things like ObamaCare take full effect, 2013 diesel laws go into effect, and a plethora of other things.
LOL Belmont, in one of the stories you posted I found this gem:
Between this and a recently withdrawn EPA proposal to monitor spilt milk, Johanns said it is too much.
So not only does the EPA want to cry over spilt milk, it wants to study and regulate it.
WTF?
Belmont31R
09-06-11, 18:33
LOL Belmont, in one of the stories you posted I found this gem:
So not only does the EPA want to cry over spilt milk, it wants to study and regulate it.
WTF?
The EPA should be disbanded as well as a bunch of other agencies. While the original intent was at least half way good they have completely obliterated the original mandates, and now are just at war with American growth & prosperity.
Sure keep rivers from being polluted so much they catch fire but now they have nothing better to do than cause havoc with a country trying to get itself out of a hole. Agriculture is part of our core pillars, and they are playing with fire ****ing a bunch of farmers over. They just as soon sell of their land to some developer and retire in peace than deal with a bunch of dumb ass DC intellectuals who think they know whats best.
If he had this very government we have today transplanted to 1800 we would be a 3rd world country right now. We would have never gone through the industrial revolution which built the rock our current country is built on, and idiots like the EPA is trying to chip away at. Think of the rail roads expanding west, and EPA/OSHA goons in charge. :rolleyes:
Moose-Knuckle
09-07-11, 01:34
From the moment Richard Nixon (Republican) created the EPA in 1970, and signed the Endangered Species Act (ESA) into law, they have been the primary engines of social change used by leftists environmental elitists to destroy America. They have done so by infiltrating the EPA, and the US Fish & Wildlife (USF&W) the agency which decides what animals will be listed as endangered.
More smoke and mirrors and slide of hand. . .
Back to Gibson. . .
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson
El Pistolero
09-07-11, 02:05
Meh, I always prefered my American Strat, I could never get use to the shorter neck of a Gibson. But what the DOJ did is utter bullshit. How about worrying less about the skinnies in Madagascar and more about providing real craftsman jobs here at home for real Americans?
What's next? Raiding Fender's Corona factory for illegal immigrants?
Belmont31R
09-07-11, 17:17
Republicans are inviting the CEO of Gibson to attend Obamas speech...
In addition to those Republican lawmakers who have announced – motivated, it seems, by disrespect — that they will decline to attend President Obama’s Thursday night jobs address to a joint session of Congress, Republicans are also taking the additional step of inviting a man whose company the Obama administration is investigating for possibly breaking the law.
Henry Juszkiewicz, the CEO of Gibson Guitar Corp., will either sit in the House Gallery as the guest of his member of Congress, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn. (members of Congress each get to invite one guest to sit in that balcony), or he will be invited to sit in the speaker of the House’s box for the speech, Republican officials tell ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/gop-inviting-as-guest-to-obama-speech-the-ceo-of-company-raided-by-feds/
Gibson is also a non union shop as well as a supporter to the Republican Party. I've been playing Gibsons since the 60's through their good years and not so good. They don't deserve this. I'll also never buy a Martin in the light of this. I'm going to make it a point to avoid the union label when ever possible.
theblackknight
09-08-11, 17:21
This is straight up horse shit. I've play ESP customs and Upper level Ibanezs, but Gibsons are a ****ing icon. My axes both have rosewood boards.
Its not the wood, its the fact that they work on them here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2E-tXQ6kQoU#!
Its not the wood, its the fact that they work on them here.
.....and that their primary competitor (who, it should be noted, also uses Indian rosewood) is a union shop and campaign contributor to the Democrats.
theblackknight
09-08-11, 19:07
.....and that their primary competitor (who, it should be noted, also uses Indian rosewood) is a union shop and campaign contributor to the Democrats.
Fender ,Martin? Who?
El Pistolero
09-08-11, 20:44
Fender ,Martin? Who?
Martin.
Looks like the case got dropped against Gibson.
Most of the article is behind a paywall but you can see a little at this link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443324404577594890622149010.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
---
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-12, 17:36
Great news! :cool:
ForTehNguyen
08-21-12, 18:20
too bad they cant get all their expenses and lost production back. Did they give their inventory back at least?
Well that's good.
Took long enough...
I'd be interested to know what "remedial measures" they had to settle for to make this go away.
Well that's good.
Took long enough...
I'd be interested to know what "remedial measures" they had to settle for to make this go away.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Gibson Guitar Corp. has agreed to pay a fine for illegally importing exotic wood from Madagascar and India, the U.S. government said Monday.
Gibson will pay a $300,000 penalty to avoid criminal charges for importing ebony and rosewood in violation of the Lacey Act, which prohibits the acquisition of plant products that are protected in other countries, the Department of Justice said in a statement.
In this case, Gibson was accused of illegally importing ebony from Madagascar and India, as well as rosewood from India.
The guitar maker will also have to make a "community service payment" of $50,000 to the U.S. National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to promote conservation and development of tree species used in making musical instruments.
The company also will withdraw its claims to the $262,000 worth of exotic woods seized by federal authorities, said the Department of Justice.
The settlement stems an incident last year, when agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service raided two of Gibson's factories in Tennessee and its Nashville headquarters on Aug. 24. At the time, Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz said the agents confiscated about $1 million in Indian ebony as well as guitars and electronic data.
Guitar maker Fender files for IPO
"We felt compelled to settle as the costs of proving our case at trial would have cost millions of dollars and taken a very long time to resolve," Joskiewicz said in a statement released late Monday. This allows us to get back to the business of making guitars."
On July 19, the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed piece by Juszkiewicz that detailed the raid, which he says cost his company $2 million to $3 million in products and productivity.
He also said the importation was in compliance with the laws of India. He called the U.S. government's actions an 'overreach" and a "job killer." To top of page
First Published: August 6, 2012: 11:52 AM ET
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, August 6, 2012
Gibson Guitar Corp. Agrees to Resolve Investigation into Lacey Act Violations
Gibson Guitar Corp. entered into a criminal enforcement agreement with the United States today resolving a criminal investigation into allegations that the company violated the Lacey Act by illegally purchasing and importing ebony wood from Madagascar and rosewood and ebony from India.
The agreement was announced today by Assistant Attorney General Ignacia S. Moreno of the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, Jerry Martin, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee and Dan Ashe, Director of the Department of the Interior’s U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
The criminal enforcement agreement defers prosecution for criminal violations of the Lacey Act and requires Gibson to pay a penalty amount of $300,000. The agreement further provides for a community service payment of $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to be used to promote the conservation, identification and propagation of protected tree species used in the musical instrument industry and the forests where those species are found. Gibson will also implement a compliance program designed to strengthen its compliance controls and procedures. In related civil forfeiture actions, Gibson will withdraw its claims to the wood seized in the course of the criminal investigation, including Madagascar ebony from shipments with a total invoice value of $261,844.
In light of Gibson’s acknowledgement of its conduct, its duties under the Lacey Act and its promised cooperation and remedial actions, the government will decline charging Gibson criminally in connection with Gibson’s order, purchase or importation of ebony from Madagascar and ebony and rosewood from India, provided that Gibson fully carries out its obligations under the agreement, and commits no future violations of law, including Lacey Act violations.
“As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”
“The Department of Justice is committed to enforcing the laws enacted by Congress,” said U.S. Attorney Martin. “Failure to do so harms those who play by the rules and follow the law. This criminal enforcement agreement goes a long way in demonstrating the government’s commitment to protecting the world’s natural resources. The agreement is fair and just in that it assesses serious penalties for Gibson’s behavior while allowing Gibson to continue to focus on the business of making guitars.”
“The Lacey Act’s illegal logging provisions were enacted with bipartisan support in Congress to protect vanishing foreign species and forest ecosystems, while ensuring a level playing field for America’s forest products industry and the people and communities who depend on it,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Ashe. “We’re pleased that Gibson Guitar Corp. has recognized its duties under the Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin from threatened forests and has taken responsibility for actions that may have contributed to the unlawful export and exploitation of wood from some of the world’s most threatened forests.”
Since May 2008, it has been illegal under the Lacey Act to import into the United States plants and plant products (including wood) that have been harvested and exported in violation of the laws of another country. Congress extended the protections of the Lacey Act, the nation’s oldest resource protection law, to these products in an effort to address the environmental and economic impact of illegal logging around the world.
The criminal enforcement agreement includes a detailed statement of facts describing the conduct for which Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility. The facts establish the following:
Madagascar Ebony is a slow-growing tree species and supplies are considered threatened in its native environment due to over-exploitation. Both legal and illegal logging of Madagascar Ebony and other tree species have significantly reduced Madagascar’s forest cover. Madagascar’s forests are home to many rare endemic species of plants and animals . The harvest of ebony in and export of unfinished ebony from, Madagascar has been banned since 2006.
Gibson purchased “fingerboard blanks,” consisting of sawn boards of Madagascar ebony, for use in manufacturing guitars. The Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks were ordered from a supplier who obtained them from an exporter in Madagascar. Gibson’s supplier continued to receive Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its Madagascar exporter after the 2006 ban. The Madagascar exporter did not have authority to export ebony fingerboard blanks after the law issued in Madagascar in 2006.
In 2008, an employee of Gibson participated in a trip to Madagascar, sponsored by a non-profit organization. Participants on the trip, including the Gibson employee, were told that a law passed in 2006 in Madagascar banned the harvest of ebony and the export of any ebony products that were not in finished form. They were further told by trip organizers that instrument parts, such as fingerboard blanks, would be considered unfinished and therefore illegal to export under the 2006 law. Participants also visited the facility of the exporter in Madagascar, from which Gibson’s supplier sourced its Madagascar ebony, and were informed that the wood at the facility was under seizure at that time and could not be moved.
After the Gibson employee returned from Madagascar with this information, he conveyed the information to superiors and others at Gibson. The information received by the Gibson employee during the June 2008 trip, and sent to company management by the employee and others following the June 2008 trip, was not further investigated or acted upon prior to Gibson continuing to place orders with its supplier. Gibson received four shipments of Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its supplier between October 2008 and September 2009.
This case was investigated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service with assistance from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The case was handled by the Environmental Crimes Section of the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Tennessee.
The_War_Wagon
08-22-12, 08:09
Nice to see the earth 'protection racket' is still at it. There's DAMN good money to be made, in shaking down legitimate businesses for imaginary causes... :rolleyes:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Earth_Day_Protection_Racket.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-12, 15:10
Nice to see the earth 'protection racket' is still at it. There's DAMN good money to be made, in shaking down legitimate businesses for imaginary causes... :rolleyes:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Earth_Day_Protection_Racket.jpg
Yeap, just as bad as "carbon credits/taxes".
This is fascinating. Not sure how it "might" play into all this.
http://www.sustainablepractice.org/2012/06/taylor-guitars-the-future-of-ebony/
Nice to see the earth 'protection racket' is still at it. There's DAMN good money to be made, in shaking down legitimate businesses for imaginary causes... :rolleyes:
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Earth_Day_Protection_Racket.jpg
Is that Pangea?
Littlelebowski
08-24-12, 07:39
http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/07/gibson-guitar-settles-federal-case-that
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.