View Full Version : Flash Suppressors
I'm announcing my lack of knowledge in this area. I've read and seen a lot of people outfitting their ARs with flash suppressors, most commonly Noveske KX3. I was wondering if I could get some insight on the overall advantages, as well as some arguments why you don't need one. Mostly I'm talking about a 14.5 to 16 inch barrel. Thanks.
The Noveske KX3 is really intended for the shorter (12.5" and under) barrels, and isn't a "flash hider" per se, but does a whole lot of other things that may be beneficial on the shorter barrels.
In terms of flash hiders on 14.5" & 16" barrels, and putting aside any dedicated silencer mounts, the Vortex and the Phantom tend to get the most attention. There are tons of pictures and videos available on the internet of various tests showing how each effects flash with various ammo. Google is your friend on this one.
There has also been some attention to so-called "flash hider compensators" that are alleged to do both jobs. The Vltor (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Vltor-Compensator-Flash-Suppressor-p/vltor%20comp%201.htm) is one example. I don't know if these are proving to work as advertised (both compensating and flash hiding), but the concept seems intellectually oxymoronic to me. I do intend to pick up one of the Vltor examples to test for myself eventually. There is more information available on these types of muzzle devices available here (http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access.html).
IMHO, it's a toss up between the Vortex and the Phantom, but them I'm still using the A2 on my guns so what do I know. :cool:
Actually, the Vortex and Phantom mentioned above are FLASH SUPPRESSORS...designed to break up the burning gasses and dissipate the flash sooner than would otherwise happen. FLASH HIDERS are designed to hide the flash from the weapon operator so as not to harm his night vision. The Noveske product mentioned above could correctly be called a flashider.
MBR
strongisland
11-08-07, 09:58
How does these two compare to the stock flash suppressor on my LE6920?
How does these two compare to the stock flash suppressor on my LE6920?
They outperform it, but I've never found the standard A2 flash hider to be lacking for basic home defense or general civilian use.
I've fired 11.5" barrels at night with the A2 attached and found it to be just fine.... a little bit of light leaks thru the cuts, but nothing distracting to the shooter IMO.
I use standard A2 with peel washer.
I use it because it is $5 and can accept silencers made for standard A2 flash hiders.
It also provides adequate flash suppression.
Look at your intended use. The original Noveske KFH and the improved KX3 work as intended on SBRs. All products I've used by Noveske are good to go and recommended!
There have been words spread about 16" bbl carbines with these not functioning correctly, however John Noveske has told me otherwise and he's a stand-up guy. Personally, I've not tried them on anything over 11.5".
The A2 FH is OK for general usage, but there are better FHs such as the Vortex and YHM Phantom. If everything you do is 14.5 and longer, in daylight and at the range, I wouldn't worry about any of this.
John_Wayne777
11-12-07, 10:50
Generally the Krink style flash "suppressors" don't really do a very good job of getting rid of the flash. They may help shield the shooter from the flash effect, but they still light up the night. As Larry Vickers put it, "There's a reason why they have a flaming pig engraved on the side."
How does that A2 compare to no supressor at all? I was firing the HBAR6601 the other day sans flash supressor and with most ammo used the flash filled the sight picture.
How does that A2 compare to no supressor at all? I was firing the HBAR6601 the other day sans flash supressor and with most ammo used the flash filled the sight picture.
Huge Difference.
I took the A2 off of an 11.5" barrel and fired it. I could see a flash slightly larger than a regulation sized football.
They A2 seemed to get rid of about 90% of it.... this was with XM193.
Huge Difference.
I took the A2 off of an 11.5" barrel and fired it. I could see a flash slightly larger than a regulation sized football.
They A2 seemed to get rid of about 90% of it.... this was with XM193.
Wow, I just don't see how it does that. Is there a link where I can read up on HOW a flash suppressor works? Impressive that the A2 does that much, why is everyone rushing to replace them with some $80 wunder suppressor?
Wow, I just don't see how it does that. Is there a link where I can read up on HOW a flash suppressor works? Impressive that the A2 does that much, why is everyone rushing to replace them with some $80 wunder suppressor?
Well... If it's important enough for the end user to get rid of the rest of the flash, they can buy a unit that will do it. For some applications, it might be worth it.
RogerinTPA
11-12-07, 11:56
I have Vortex on both my AR's. I mostly shoot at an in door 50 yard range, which is pretty dimly lite. I always have people come up and say that they couldn't see any flash when I was shooting.
you can pay 300 or 400% more for a 7% improvement over an A2 ,but you will look Kool . I have to admidt they look Kool as hell and if that's important to you there is nothing wrong with it. like chrome 22 inch rims ,beauty is in the eye of the beholder. TactiKool is big biz .;)
When in a fire fight being shot at night and cant make out the target you aim at the flash. Paying a few bucks to lessen my flash signature is worth it to me.
When in a fire fight being shot at night and cant make out the target you aim at the flash. Paying a few bucks to lessen my flash signature is worth it to me.
most of us don't get in that situation . the Gov has not seen fit to make the change yet ,and they get into fire fights every day . that said I have Phamtom's and a Vortex and the A2's and have no barrel's under 16 inch so I can't comment on short barrels but on the 16 Inchers I can not see that much diff at night . for what it's worth in 1971 I was caught in the draft and served in Nam,a battle zone get's lit up real good anyway you look at it . not sure if a better FS would have mad a dif or not. never been so scared so long in my life ,being older and smarter now you could never get me to do that again. at 56 I'm too old fat and smart to do that again .
Blackout!
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/andradepix018.jpg?t=1194909408
most of us don't get in that situation . the Gov has not seen fit to make the change yet ,and they get into fire fights every day . that said I have Phamtom's and a Vortex and the A2's and have no barrel's under 16 inch so I can't comment on short barrels but on the 16 Inchers I can not see that much diff at night . for what it's worth in 1971 I was caught in the draft and served in Nam,a battle zone get's lit up real good anyway you look at it . not sure if a better FS would have mad a dif or not. never been so scared so long in my life ,being older and smarter now you could never get me to do that again. at 56 I'm too old fat and smart to do that again .
There are Vortex FS's in use overseas as we speak. Im recently retired and have seen action and I agree with you it is scary shit. But with technology getting better why not use a better product? I dont think I will ever be in a position again where someone is targeting me by flash signature but if there is a better produict out there why not use it?
you'll get no arguement on that with me ,better is better but for most of us non combatants the diff is nill. all I'm saying is the diff in price is mostly inflated profit and most of the folks will never be able to tell the diff anyway . but for those who want the best and are willing to shell out the cash there is always some new gear that is just a hair better and a pile of cash more. in a life and death situation cost is no object ,and a bargin at that .
Airframerhutt
06-11-08, 20:48
I put on a new flash supressor today myself....
I'm announcing my lack of knowledge in this area. I've read and seen a lot of people outfitting their ARs with flash suppressors, most commonly Noveske KX3. I was wondering if I could get some insight on the overall advantages, as well as some arguments why you don't need one. Mostly I'm talking about a 14.5 to 16 inch barrel. Thanks.
From this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14343
I would not recommend a KX3 for a barrel over 12.5" (give or take an inch).
I ran a KX3 on my 11.5" barrel for work. I liked that the KX3 directed the muzzle blast, flash, gases, etc. down range. Short barreled rifles can be obnoxious and when shooting in close proximity to other Officers a KX3 on a short barreled rifle has a utility.
But consider that the KX3 is 8 oz (1/2 pound) and adds to the overall length of the gun. My 11.5" short barreled rifle w/ KX3 was only 1.75" shorter than my 14.5" M4 with Sabre Defense long A2 flash hider (overall length is 16.1").
In my opinion the extra weight and length of the KX3 were a fair trade off for the benefits gained by the KX3 when running it on a SBR. Putting the KX3 on a 16" barrel would make the overall length of the barrel 18.75" (that's almost 19"), not to mention you will notice 1/2 lbs. out on the end of a 16" barrel more than you will on the end of a 10.5" - 11.5" barrel.
I like the KX3's on SBR's, but they have little to no use on longer barrels. The bottom gun is a 11.5" SBR w/ KX3, the gun above it is a 14.5" M4 with a long A2 flash hider perminately attached to meet the 16" minimum barrel length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Group%20Gun%20Pics/AllLMTs.jpg?t=1210463283
My personal opinion is to stick with the factory A2 flash hider / compensator.
The A2 flash hider is 1 3/4" long and the Smith Vortex is 2.31" long. The A2 is already on your gun, the Smith Vortex costs $55. In my opinion unnecessary added length and unnecessary extra cost.
In a law enforcement situation getting the best or most amount of flash supression is a non-issue as in the hours of darkness more often than not you will be illuminating the suspect with white light of some type.
S/F,
Jeff
Just my .02 pesos based on *my* first hand experience.
There are only a handful of FS's that are used by the Military. The Vortex is one of them. Under .Mil testing, they have also shown them to improve accuracy (slightly).
The Phantom most likely the best bang for the buck as they are cheap and kill flash well.
The KX3 is good for some things, but horrible in other areas. The weight and cost tend to kill it for most people.
I personally use the Vortex, SF 212A, SF 556K MB and VLTOR. They each have their place and do their job.
C4
I have the KX3, SF 556K, and Phantom. As mentioned the KX3 is for 12.5" SBRs and shorter. The SF 556K and Phantom both work great. I have tried Vortex and others like it, they are very good at flash supression. However, because they are a prong design the "tuning fork" sound they make while shooting is annoying and distracting to me. It doesn't seem to bother others, so it is a matter of personal preference. If possible try all of them before making a decision.
S/F
Jay Cunningham
06-11-08, 22:29
I'm having good luck with the VLTOR on my 16" middy.
IrishDevil
06-11-08, 23:41
I'll have to agree that on a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel the standard A2 does well. I've found that the biggest variable as far as flash goes is ammo selection. I've tried several types listed above and many work well, but unless it's an SBR, they're not IMO worth the extra cost. When the A2 usually comes on the barrel already it's hard to beat. I've shot a few SBR's with the KX3 and it does what's it's designed for and pretty well.
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