View Full Version : Hornady TAP .223 75 grain legit deer hunting ammo?
Read an article in G&A about a hunter using this ammo to take a deer. Does anyone else think that it's a good idea? I'm not a huge hunter, but I was always under the impression that .223 was too small of a caliber to make a reliable clean kill.
I know a few people who've taken deer with it. Haven't tried it myself, though.
Know quite a bit more people who've taken deer with various other .223/5.56 offerings. I used 60gr Nosler Partitions last year but didn't see anything, and if I go this year I'll probably be using 5.56 TAP 75gr.
Hit what you're aiming at, and it'll go down quick. Considering it's size and energy you do have to make sure and place your shot well, you don't have the 'luxury' of a much bigger and faster projectile to make up for poor aim.
I probably wouldn't hunt with a 5.56 because I have a 30-06 available. I do however know a lot of guys that hunt deer around here (no monsters) with an ar platform. Typically they shoot for head/neck shots. If not that then lung and as a last resort through the shoulder. I've seen the after shot pics and a good 5.56 round to a deer's head or neck is a one hitter quitter.
I probably wouldn't hunt with a 5.56 because I have a 30-06 available. I do however know a lot of guys that hunt deer around here (no monsters) with an ar platform. Typically they shoot for head/neck shots. If not that then lung and as a last resort through the shoulder. I've seen the after shot pics and a good 5.56 round to a deer's head or neck is a one hitter quitter.
Currently, my AR is my only rifle so that is partly why I'm interested if I can "get away" with using TAP to go hunt.
Currently, my AR is my only rifle so that is partly why I'm interested if I can "get away" with using TAP to go hunt.
Get away with? Definitely if you do your part. It'll kill a deer quick with good placement. A lung hit might or might not take some tracking. Tap in the neck or head is gonna drop a deer. My concern would be if you hit the shoulder area. Not sure if the tap stuff would punch through with enough oomph to damage the vitals behind the shoulder blade or punch through at all.
Awesome, thanks for the response. Saves me from having to convince the wife to get another rifle :) (although I'd LOVE to have another).
Make sure you check your local game laws to make certain the .223 is legal for deer hunting, it's not everywhere.
I would also recommend using Barnes bullets instead of match type bullets. If you hit a shoulder you might not get any penetration to the vitals.
Just sayin'.
No go in TN. Considered too small.
If it is enough of a round to kill a man wouldn't it be enough to kill a deer. That being said it's all about bullet placement and the construction of the bullet being used. People kill 2,3,400 pound hogs all the time with the .223/5.56 round. It amazes me looking at the pictures here on the site and I'm really tempted to try it myself. I'm still hesitant though.
Also too small here in FL. :(
I live in Missouri. According to the methods allowed this is what is on the website:
Centerfire pistol, revolver or rifle using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammunition includes lead bullets, copper bullets and bullets made of other material designed to expand.
It doesn't mention any particular caliber so I take it to mean .223 would be fair game. Although, I'll still research. If anyone knows for certain for Missouri, then please feel free to enlighten me. Thanks for the replies.
IIRC, the smallest legal caliber for deer here in Michigan is .22. ETA NOT .243, thx Joey.
The 75 OTM or 62 Bonded SP would be good choices if you HAD to use 5.56 for deer.
It would probably better to step up to a little larger round like the 6.8 or 300BLK.
Those give you a little more margin for error if your shot placement is not perfect.
IIRC, the smallest legal caliber for deer here in Michigan is .243.
The 75 OTM or 62 Bonded SP would be good choices if you HAD to use 5.56 for deer.
It would probably better to step up to a little larger round like the 6.8 or 300BLK.
Those give you a little more margin for error if your shot placement is not perfect.
That is incorrect. "It is legal to hunt deer in the rifle zone with any caliber of firearm except a .22 caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun)." From DNR website.
In Oregon where I hunt it is legal to use a .223/5.56 to hunt deer. I have been using Hornady 55 gr SP SX backed by 23.5 gr AA2230. I have taken 2 deer with this cartridge combination both were heart/lung shots. The blacktailed deer here are not as big as Mule deer or whitetailed in Eastern Oregon. So that's what I use. I think it will depend on the size of deer your hunting to determine the grain of bullet or caliber you want to use. Another round I have been considering is the 53 gr v-max made by Hornady.
thopkins22
09-05-11, 00:44
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/
Pick a load that utilizes a 53-70gr. TSX and watch deer get dead. Truly changed my mind on hunting medium/big game with a carbine. I suggest taking a spin through the terminal ballistics forum and reading DocGKR's thoughts on this bullet...you'll likely be impressed.
Barnes, Black Hills, Corbon, and probably a few others produce loads with these bullets.
Hi I have two loads, one is the 62 grain TSX over TAC and the other is the 64 grain WW powerpoint over Varget. The 223 is legal in GA.
Also too small here in FL. :(
Who told you that? :confused:
That is wrong, you can use ANY centerfire rifle cartridge as long as you do not use FMJ bullets.
Here are the current 2011-2012 Florida "Prohibited Methods for Taking Game Animals"
Centerfire semi-automatic rifles having magazine capacities of more than five rounds
Nonexpanding full metal case (military ball) ammunition for taking deer
Firearms using rimfire cartridges for taking deer
Rifles or pistols for taking migratory game birds
Fully automatic or silencer-equipped firearms
Explosive or drug-injecting arrows or bolts
Taking or attempting to take game with live decoys, recorded game calls or sounds, set guns, artificial lights, nets, traps, snares, drugs or poisons
Shooting from vehicles, powerboats or sailboats moving under power. Motors must be shut off or sails furled, and the vessel's progress must cease from such motor or sail before hunters may shoot wildlife.
Herding or driving wildlife with vehicles, boats or aircraft
Hunting turkeys with dogs
Shooting turkeys while they are on the roost
Taking migratory game birds over baited areas
Taking turkeys over baited areas
Taking turkeys when the hunter is within 100 yards of a game-feeding station when feed is present
Taking spotted fawn deer or swimming deer
Hunting with bows equipped with sights or aiming devices with electronic computational capabilities or light projection (laser) features during the archery season
Hunting resident game using bows and crossbows with draw weights less than 35 pounds
Using dogs without collars that identify the owner's name and address
Using dogs on private lands without written landowner permission
Taking game with modern firearms while hunting during the archery, crossbow and muzzleloading gun seasons
Placing, exposing or distributing soporific, anesthetic, tranquilizer, hypnotic or similar drugs or chemicals; preparation by baits; or by other means where game birds or game animals may be affected, unless authorized by permit from the FWC executive director
http://myfwc.com/hunting/regulations/prohibited-methods/
You certainly CAN take any game animals with a .223/5.56mm here in Florida using the proper ammunition and a magazine less than 5 cartridges. :D
We've killed lot's of deer and a few hogs with 223's and 22-250's using 55 gr ballistic tips and 60gr Nosler partitions. The ballistic tips kill but don't exit and we have had a hard time tracking dead deer that can travel 100yards on their last breath through thick brush and briars.
So the 60 gr Partition get's the nod now as it usually punches through and leaves a blood trail. I have some 55gr TSX's to try but will use the 77gr SMK's for a doe or 2 this year. I use them on coyotes and have been impressed. I think the 75 gr TAP is a better bullet and should be fine.
Don Robison
09-05-11, 12:48
Also too small here in FL. :(
From the 2012 F&W Regulation book the only restriction is on rimfire and FMJ.
Page10
http://myfwc.com/media/1456328/2011-2012-Hunting-Regulations.pdf
I dropped an injured doe at work last week with our issued Hornady 55 gr v-max from my 14.5 LMT. While I certainly do not consider the 55 gr v-max an optimal load for anything it worked like a charm. The doe had apparently been hit by a vehicle several days prior and was being attacked by a coyote. The coyote was gone when I arrived, but she was too injured to leave alone. I tried for a 25 yard head shot, but she moved her head (round hit her in the muzzle and started running. A 30 yard moving neck shot dropped her like a bag of hammers. There was no exit wound, but it severed/destroyed several inches of her spine.
My point is the .223 can do the job if you can put the bullet where it needs to go. As with anything shot placement is more important than caliber, but choose the best bullet type for the job. I plan on using the same rifle for hogs and coyotes, but I will use a 55-70 grain Barnes TSX.
I'm going to try to take one this year using the 70gr TSX loaded by Silver State from a 16" barreled AR. I'm glad to hear that you guys seem to be giving it the thumbs up. Their site says 2750fps MV, which is probably from a 20" barrel or so, so I put in 2650fps into JBM and the velocity drops below 1800fps (what Barnes says these need to expand, I read somewhere) at about 325 yards...so expansion shouldn't be a problem. However, the oft-quoted 1000ft-lbs of energy needed to take whitetail is left behind at between 25yds and 50yds (not that I put stock in that number).
Do you think I'll be alright taking a heart shot with this round? Has anyone seen or heard secondhand how it performs if it hits bone on the way in? I'd like to take a heart/lung shot so that I don't have to ruin the head, neck, or backstrap.
Currently, my AR is my only rifle so that is partly why I'm interested if I can "get away" with using TAP to go hunt.
75 grain TAP would not be my 1st choice but I am convinced that it can be made to work and work well . In fact I plan to use some Prvi 75 grn loads in a middie carbine on smallish pigs and deer myself.
The trick will be to only try shots that you know you can make -- kill the deer clean and find it within a reasonable time. From big to small I have shot hoofed animals from reh/roe deer ( german shepard size ) with a .243 ( 1 ) and a .308 ( 8 ) , a bunch of deer and 1 moose wth 30'06 or 308 . I have shot a few animals that would eat you and I if we were helpless -- biggest were a 100 kilo pig & a 265pound bear - dressed wieght.
Here's what I would do to prep to get away with 75 TAP on deer:
- Take at a look at 75 TAP jel test date . Deer aren't made of jello but the tests give you an idea about how the bullet works when it hits . The terminal ballistics guys use gel for some very good reasons.
- Take a look at deer anatomy. Check out gun and archery shot placement info .
- Then pick your shots carefully , stay away from entry hits on areas that have a combination of thick bone & thick muscle . Shoot to destroy both lungs . IMO ,Head & neck shots are usually a last resort & only good up close .
-- Check your zero. Know your range limit: can/could you hit a paper plate on that specific deer at that moment?
- Go get the groceries .
Hope that helps.
It seems like very often when 5.56 is proposed as a hunting round, someone always chimes in with some legal restriction. Who cares this M4 forum not the Trout Trooper/Elmer Fudd forum. Plus the legality is not relevent to the original question.
Rant over.
For sure .
It's all about getting the groceries and not screwing up Mother Nature . People put laws & reg's together that support that goal. That doesn't mean that the laws & reg's are perfect . Even constitution republics with checks & balances screw up. Then people develop get-arounds and LEO's use professional discretion . Most of us understand the common courtesy: Don't do it in the man's face and have a deck of get-out-of-jail-free cards .
Sooner or latter ( years , decades , centuries , whatever ) enough votes stack up or the courts get involved and the BS goes away.
Ready.Fire.Aim
09-10-11, 08:59
It is all about bullet placement and blood loss (shock).
A 77 year old gentleman at church has a very gory hunting photo album. He legally shoots 2 deer every year for meat, he cares nothing for horns. He has a .222 he had customized from Shilen back in the early 70s. He lines up on their head, whistles so they look his way and shoots them in the head. He has a photo album, mostly old polaroids, with about 70 photos, one of each deer he shot with the top of its head missing.
I brought him a box of oranges from my tree last season and he had a spike buck in the back of his truck with most of the skull cavity missing and showed me his album. Really nice old guy. If it's within 300 yards he can make the shot. Over that he passes.
So if you are ever in the country in Texas during December, and you hear someone give a sharp whistle, drop to the ground immediately................
John Hearne
09-10-11, 23:26
I've shot a bunch of feral pigs and two deer with .223. The first deer was taken with 55 gr Federal Bonded and the second was taken with a Winchester 64gr Power Point. The first went about 20 yards before piling up. The second went about 10 yards before piling up. Both rounds went through and through.
The 223's didn't exit the pigs but they did drop them, amazingly fast. I tried several different loads from 55gr JSP to Federal Bonded. The Federal Bonded was impressive. I was able to break the back shoulder after it came in just behind the front shoulder.
I think that the .223 relies on velocity for effectiveness so I wouldn't take 300 yard shots with it but within 100 yards it works great.
I don't have much personal experience in this because I was/am a fairly new hunter. I faced the same dilemma you were in having AR15s as my only rifles. My research led me to what has already been mentioned here.
Many have reported success with:
Barnes TSXs
Nosler partitions (60 grain I believe?)
Winchester Power Point (64 grain?)
Federal Fusion Bonded soft point(62 grain?)
Hornady 75 grain TAP (.223 LEO, 5.56 T2, .223 FPD)
I am curious, for those of you reporting success with TAP, did the fragmentation effects of the bullet destroy meat? It seems like you would get a cloud of lead throughout the animal. No doubt that the round should be effective, you only need to look at the ballistic tests.
Suwannee Tim
09-11-11, 09:35
Read an article in G&A about a hunter using this ammo to take a deer. Does anyone else think that it's a good idea? I'm not a huge hunter, but I was always under the impression that .223 was too small of a caliber to make a reliable clean kill.
Is a 375 RUM shooting a 300 grain bullet at 2700 fps adequate for an 800 pound moose? Absolutely, some might argue that it is overkill. So then is a 223 shooting a 75 grain bullet at 2700 fps adequate for a 200 pound deer? Absolutely, with a bullet designed for that task.
lengthofpull
09-25-11, 02:57
I shot a small forked horn with a .223 64 grain winchester power point at 150 yards out of a 24" barreled AR. He took one step and fell over.
I normally shoot "big game" with a bolt action .300 win mag but I bring my AR as a backup. Big game is a relative term because the deer on our property could be mistaken for great danes. The deer I described above was maybe 120 lbs, at most. If he had a full belly.
Shot placement is key.
RoyalsSpeedShop
11-15-11, 23:17
I know this thread is a couple of months old, but I now have personal experience with 75 grain Tap. I recently had the opportunity to take a 110 lb 3 point at about 85 yards. I was using the 75 grain Tap out of a 16 inch barrel and had a clear broadside with a slight frontal quarter. He bolted after the shot and left no blood trail but was found about 30 yards away, deader than a hammer.
I was unable to find an entrance or exit wound at all until I skinned him. I hit him right behind the right shoulder just missing bone and the round exited a few inches further to the rear on the opposite side with what seemed like no expansion whatsoever. The exit hole was the same size as the entrance. The round worked as it should but I would have liked to see some expansion. I will be trying the 70gr Barnes Triple Shock next. It seems to be a proven expander.
Thanks for weighing in with real world data on the subject, RSS. Very disappointing performance. Let us know how the 70gr TSX does, if you will. I've got a mag loaded with 62gr Federal Fusion at the moment that I've been unable to try out on a deer so far.
Have a good'n.
Sorry if this is a thread drift, just trying to answer the above poster's question on the Barnes TSX.
I am new to reloading, so this may be a little weaker load than what some guys use. I will continue to tinker with this load, but for now this is what I am using in my BCM Middy as a deer hunting load.
70 gr Barnes TSX
22.6 gr H335 powder
2.25" OAL
I killed a 120 lb doe last week(big for where I live) with the 70 grain TSX. The distance was about 75 yards, heart shot. She only ran about 15 yards.
The shot was actually a little low, I rushed my shot a little bit. I usually try to aim for the scapula when I have a good broadside shot. From what I have seen, this is the magical knock em off their feet dead shot like what you sometimes see on TV.
Now for the bad part. There was no blood trail.
This was also the first deer that I have killed with this load. Last year I used a commercial TSX load with similar results (62 grain Cor Bon DPX). Due to the cost of this ammo, I decided to try reloading my own this year. I have read fantastic reviews of the 70 grain TSX and wanted to try it out for myself. Other than no blood trail on this deer, I was very pleased with the results.
That's a real shame about the lack of a blood trail, at least for the results posted above.
I depend on a blood trail because during much of the gun deer season here in NC, it's too warm to leave deer where they fell overnight and resume the search in the morning. Now if they all went down within 15yds, no problem, but I've often had them run for >100yds after being solidly double-lung shot with a 308 or 12-ga slug.
If possible, I try to aim low and just behind the shoulder to get the heart. Maybe the scapula shot is the way to go though. I've just been afraid that I'd destroy a good portion of meat doing that.
Thanks for the data.
That's a real shame about the lack of a blood trail, at least for the results posted above.
I depend on a blood trail because during much of the gun deer season here in NC, it's too warm to leave deer where they fell overnight and resume the search in the morning. Now if they all went down within 15yds, no problem, but I've often had them run for >100yds after being solidly double-lung shot with a 308 or 12-ga slug.
If possible, I try to aim low and just behind the shoulder to get the heart. Maybe the scapula shot is the way to go though. I've just been afraid that I'd destroy a good portion of meat doing that.
Thanks for the data.
I've seen deer shot and shot deer myelf with much larger calibers that ran further and bled more but also have seen them bleed little and drop quicker. Deer that are dead on their feet do funny things sometimes.
Also, the deer I killed last year with the 62 grain TSX had a very good blood trail even though I did not need it. It was a low double lung shot.
floridajpr
11-18-11, 19:19
Not True! 223/556 is plenty for whitetail in Florida! Born and raised Native of Florida. Good for hogs too if you can hit them behind the ear.
Also too small here in FL. :(
A month ago was a couple of first's for me with .223
I handloaded some 77gr Nosler CustomCompetition HPBT this past summer and worked up the most accurate load for my rifle using Ramshot TAC. It was right around 23.5 grains.
Anyway, second to last day of buck season at 126 yards I had a 3pt mulie buck hiding behind a tree with just his head sticking out. I waited and waited. He turned to follow the doe's he was following and my only shot was a neck shot. So I took it.
Instant drop, he never took one step. After skinning the buck out, I had a .22cal entrance wound, and about a $.25 exit. The round had vaporized, I never found the core. There was a double fist sized area of shredded bloodshot meat with flakes of copper all throughout the area.
I'd never taken a deer with my AR before and I'd never taken a neck shot. My standand big game hunting rifle is my .270 Win, of which I've taken lots of elk, deer, and bear. I use 130 Barnes TSX.
My observations and conclusions.
I need more penetration, I think my standard heart and lung may have not worked very well, and with the total fragmentration, may have resulted in a lot of meat loss. I'd researched some into the Barger type HP's and the reviews seem positive even though its expected to vaporize inside. I don't think I want to pick out little fragments of metal in my food. I think I'd be better served with a bonded core soft point or a Barnes. The neck shot dropped him like a sack of potatoes, thankfully. I was confindent in my placement of the shot, just not so confident of the round. I think my .270 is a better tool for the job, I just wanted to see if my AR would do the job and it did. I don't care for the fragmentration, but for a neck shot it maybe be more effective. With a .223 its a push, if it doesnt expand you only have a tiny little .22 caliber hole, if it expands too much it vaporizes. Even if it expands and doesn't fragment you still don't have a very big hole. The bigger the hole the bigger the blood loss, in my opinion.-WW
Scattergun
11-18-11, 21:04
No go in TN. Considered too small.
nope, any center fire can be used in TN. Check pg 18 in the TN hunting guide
No go in TN. Considered too small.
I thought they changed it last year to make 223 legal for deer.
It is all about bullet placement and blood loss (shock).
A 77 year old gentleman at church has a very gory hunting photo album. He legally shoots 2 deer every year for meat, he cares nothing for horns. He has a .222 he had customized from Shilen back in the early 70s. He lines up on their head, whistles so they look his way and shoots them in the head. He has a photo album, mostly old polaroids, with about 70 photos, one of each deer he shot with the top of its head missing.
I brought him a box of oranges from my tree last season and he had a spike buck in the back of his truck with most of the skull cavity missing and showed me his album. Really nice old guy. If it's within 300 yards he can make the shot. Over that he passes.
So if you are ever in the country in Texas during December, and you hear someone give a sharp whistle, drop to the ground immediately................
I kill more deer with a 220 swift than i do w/ all my other rifles combined...i use kinda the same method as the ole timer. The white/grey area where the colors meet on the front of the neck is my prefered target. The head moves way more than the neck & is a better option. Keeping doe counts on the managed ranches is never ending down here.
Having said that, there is no reason in the world to put a 223 pill in the boiler room of a deer. I prefer 25cal and up for anything other than head/neck.
They make tough bullets these days and a blood trail is a must if you are going to shoot them on the shoulder. 257 Roberts and bigger imho for whitetail.
No go in TN. Considered too small.
Been that way for several years now
SloaneRanger
12-16-11, 15:00
No go in TN. Considered too small.
Caliber is legal as others have said. Just no FMJ's and No FA capable firearm.
Over the years,I've killed several medium size deer with 55 gr. fmj's...bullet performance varied but all died within 10 yrds of the shot...last year,I shot a doe at about 110 yrds,broadside high lung...with a 77 grn smk...instant dirt nap...but,no visable entrance hole(untill opened up) and no exit...only sign of blood was drainage from her nose...on side lung was 60% destroyed,offside about 30%...she was standing in an open field...but if she had been in the bush and run any distance at all...??? In any case,I too have been looking at the 75 grn Hornady load...but the more I look,the more I lean towards the tsx...
I did it once just as a test. Got the job done, but not impressive.
Little reaction to the shot, deer ran 25 yards and then stumbled around for a minute before falling.
16" 1/9 colt at about 110 yards.
Tumbled, no frag, exited, medium sized doe.
Still have pics if anyone cares, and if I can find them mixed in with thousands of pig pics.
Von
Read an article in G&A about a hunter using this ammo to take a deer. Does anyone else think that it's a good idea? I'm not a huge hunter, but I was always under the impression that .223 was too small of a caliber to make a reliable clean kill.
Hornady makes some really good ammunition I personally use the 308 Superformance for hunting and others for personal defense. I would not personally recommend the Hornady Tap in the 223 caliber for deer however I would like to think that with a good shot it would do the job, I just think it would be too risky for hunting with.
I know it's been about three months since a post but since its still on the first page...
Last years season (2012) I let a friend use one of my AR's while we hunted white-tail. He took the shot on a doe that walked right up to us at about 20 yards out (we were on the ground, down wind, heavily forested area) and the doe hit the ground on the spot and was dead inside a minute.
Granted my friend shot it in the head... which is highly unethical even by what he said. I guess a aimpoint at 20 yards on a target moving right at you was too tempting for him. :angry:
The bullet entered by the left side jaw and went straight into the skull, and did not exit.
I plan to use it for this years season, unless I take the .308 out depending on where we go.
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