Carbine class - run don't walk

[lifebreath]

Reading Rob's post Go shoot the gun! (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658) should be requisite for joining these forums!

I just took my first carbine class last weekend. A two-day 1000 round affair taught by some great LE guys with years of real world experience who want to pass on what they know. I recall some years back when I learned pottery on the wheel. You can read all the great pottery books, learn about all the techniques, learn all about the composition of various clays and glazes and still suck as a potter. The only way to really learn the subtleties of the art is to study personally with a real potter.

Same with any art, including shooting. To have the experience of a master transmitted to you personally for two days is worth more then a lifetime of reading. You'll learn HOW and WHY under a trained observer. Now I just need to practice, practice, practice and find the time to schedule the next class.

Anyone near Central Illinois who wants some good teaching, Ron and Dave at Shooter School (http://www.shooterschool.com/index.htm)are the real deal. Plus, they're great guys. They had just come off a week of carbine instruction to LE students and made time to carry out the two-day civilian course for just two of us.

[jmart]

What gun/ammo combo did you run and how did it perform?

[lifebreath]

What gun/ammo combo did you run and how did it perform?

KAC SR-15 with a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4X green triangle, Battlecomp 1.0, magpul angled foregrip and blue force Vickers 2-point sling. Federal XM193 ammo, USGI mags, an Endeavor Stitch Works v-ring instructors belt (http://endeavorstitchworks.com/v-ring-gun-belts/)and Kytex mag pouches (http://www.kytexgear.com/AR15.html). For pistol transitions, I had a G17 with a Safariland 5187 holster.

I've shot the gun quite a bit prior to the class and had some informal training from a friend who's been training quite a bit for the last year, so I was not 100% cold going in.

First, the selection of belt and mag pouches was from reading here. I wanted simple and effective, and I was very pleased. I did not use a dump pouch, but used my cargo pocket. I really liked the Kytex pouches. They retain the mags perfectly, are easy to use and are streamlined.

Accupoint - I love this optic. It's really fast to acquire and easy on the eyes. Negatives: a little heavy and weight is out front. Magnification was not needed, and I'd love a simple 1X version. I'd go with an Aimpoint next time.

USGI mags - I'm prefer these over other mags for various reasons. They worked just fine.

Safariland holster - perfect.

Now to the gun ...

I love the SR15, but have had issues with it failing to feed properly. I've read about others with the same problem. The failure is similar to a bolt-over-base malf where the round is jammed at a 45 degree angle halfway in the chamber, except that in my case, the bolt is behind the rim of the case. It happened quite a bit when I first got the rifle, then got better with use. If I lube the snot out of the rifle, it will run, but if I lube it in what I would consider a normal manner, it malfunctions.

Anyway, the armorer at class used my rifle to break down, clean, lube and reassemble. I knew by the way he lubed it that it was likely to fail and it did. The malfunction occurred on charging the first round and again a few rounds later during cycling. I pulled the bolt, poured a bunch of CLP on it and it ran for the rest of the class without issue until the end, when I had a double feed. I was glad to have three experienced people see the malfunction and concur there was a problem.

Bottom line, I love the way this gun shoots, but would not want to rely on it for my life. I'd take one of my Colts (I brought one as backup, but never used it), which have never given my any indications of a problem. I am sending the SR-15 back to Knights to have it fixed. Like I said, I've read about others with the same issue and it was fixed quickly by Knights. I think this illustrates the fact that the more years a company has with guns being driven hard in the field, the more likely they are to have identified and corrected any issues.

I think the SR-15 is a great gun from a quality company, any I'm sure that these corrections are being input back into their design and manufacturing to eliminate the problems in new production. That being said, I'd want a Colt if I were going into harms way on a regular basis. I think they have the bugs worked out after as many years as they have been building these guns.

Battlecomp rocks! Especially with the KAC mid-gas system.

Running through a course for two days really shows you what works and what doesn't. The other guy realized VERY quickly that his single-point sling did not work well. Also, his Aimpoint mount screws came loose after a while - good lesson to properly torque and loctite those screws!

[tactical1]

Good report - if I may ask, what is KAC going to fix on your SR-15?

[lifebreath]

Good report - if I may ask, what is KAC going to fix on your SR-15?

I don't know. It's not a gas issue, since it has occurred while manually charging and not riding the CH. Could be a feed ramp or mag well issue. I'll let them figure it out.

[tactical1]

Thanks - would appreciate knowing what they did if they let you know

[Ed L.]

Congrats on taking your first class.

What mags were you using and did you buy them knew or used?

We hear so many good things about Knights guns. It would be interesting to know what is causing the issues.

[d90king]

Congrats on seeking out training.

Most of the issues I have seen with the SR15's have been with weaker ammo. Try a variety of ammo and see if that helps.

[lifebreath]

Most of the issues I have seen with the SR15's have been with weaker ammo. Try a variety of ammo and see if that helps.

It's not an ammo/gas issue. The malfunction will occur while manually charging the gun in addition to happening while cycling. I feed it only good ammo, Federal XM193 and M855 and the malf has occurred with USGI mags and Pmags. All mags were bought new and the USGIs are recent manufacture NHMGT or OKAY with magpul or green followers. The mags run fine in other guns.

Loaded mags are more difficult to seat in this gun with the bolt closed than my 3 Colts, so I suspect it may be a dimensional issue in the mag well. But, since I'm not expert, that's why I'm sending it back! Like I said, I have read some other accounts of the EXACT same problem, and it is not the small port size/weak ammo issue.

Anyway, the training was great and I look forward to pursuing more. I want to be prepared, mentally and physically for whatever threat might present itself. Hopefully, none, but better to be well-prepared than not should the need arise. Plus, it's just plain fun! I love to shoot and learn.

[d90king]

It's not an ammo/gas issue. The malfunction will occur while manually charging the gun in addition to happening while cycling. I feed it only good ammo, Federal XM193 and M855 and the malf has occurred with USGI mags and Pmags. All mags were bought new and the USGIs are recent manufacture NHMGT or OKAY with magpul or green followers. The mags run fine in other guns.

Loaded mags are more difficult to seat in this gun with the bolt closed than my 3 Colts, so I suspect it may be a dimensional issue in the mag well. But, since I'm not expert, that's why I'm sending it back! Like I said, I have read some other accounts of the EXACT same problem, and it is not the small port size/weak ammo issue.

Anyway, the training was great and I look forward to pursuing more. I want to be prepared, mentally and physically for whatever threat might present itself. Hopefully, none, but better to be well-prepared than not should the need arise. Plus, it's just plain fun! I love to shoot and learn.

Have you tried down loading your mags by two?

[lifebreath]

Have you tried down loading your mags by two?

That's my normal procedure 98% of the time - 28 rounds.

[endeavor]

I am glad to hear the belt worked out for you.

kary

[Jim D]

XM193 is full power ammo... no reason for a functional gun not to run it, other than like you said - problems not related to the gas system.